The presence of a 'thieves guild' as, like, an organized public corporate body with a monopoly on crime is such a weird fantasy trope.
Especially when the text seems to unironically position them as, like, 'criminals but not that bad. Always looking out for each other and never really hurting anyone who doesn't deserve it.'
The trope comes from Fritz Leiber as far as I know, and it was originally meant to be tongue-in-cheek. (He was like the proto-Terry Pratchett.) And they were quite evil, but it's old-school sword&sorcery, so the heroes are rather amoral, as well.
But is there a thieves guild with a legitimate monopoly on theft outside of the Discworld? In normal fantasy, they're bribing the government and murdering competitors, right?
Also, I think a big reason for making them not that bad is RPGs. Players might want to play a rogue, but not a bad guy.
Actually, regarding the last point, that player is me. I just remembered that I hated the Skyrim thieves guild, because the first quest is to intimidate shopkeepers. But realistically, a thieves guild would devolve into a protection racket in less than a minute.
See this is just a fundamental weakness with the whole 'each class has a sort of institution and the arch of the PC is rising to the top of theirs' paradigm imo - 'forever on the run from the really nasty organized criminals because they drew some line in the sane and didn't kill someone/freed some slaves that were going to make the boss a lot of money/whatever' is one of the most archetypally plucky charming rogue situations to be in!
Hah, that's a classic rogue background, in my experience. The fighter equivalent is "deserter from the army", and they both slap.
As for where the Thieves' Guild came from, Fritz Leiber did indeed invent it. My theory is that The Court of Miracles in The Hunchback of Notre Dame (not so much the novel, but specifically the 1939 film, the one with Charles Laughton as Quasimodo) was a major influence both for Leiber's story and the trope as a whole. See here:
In a nutshell, Fritz Leiber invented the Thieves’ Guild, and D&D pilfered it. As for where Leiber got the inspiration, we can certainly spec
Something even older I have read a little bit about is the Coquillars, an organization of unemployed mercenaries resulting from the end of the Hundred Years War who worked together on counterfeiting, gambling scams, pimping, organized robberies on highways + estates, and other crimes.
Allegedly they did have their own opaque jargon and oaths of loyalty and silence. They also absorbed crooked priests, merchants, and lawyers into their faction.
Sadly a lot of the information on them is in French.
Ooh, I got a thing in English. Here's a summary of the Coquillards legend, from Jonathon Green's The Vulgar Tongue: Green's History of Slang.
[Excerpts from Jonathon Green, The Vulgar Tongue: Green’s History of Slang (Oxford University Press, 2015) ] The Coquillards Seventy years a
The only problem is that Green treats the legend more or less as fact, and it's really not. There was indeed a big trial in 1455 in Dijon, and people got hanged, and intriguingly left behind a record of their jargon, cant, argot. But these Coquillards were just a group of miscreants hanging about in brothels, pimping, and doing petty crime (theft, counterfeiting, fraud, that sort of thing). And okay, counterfeiting was actually considered a major crime at the time, hence the gallows, but in the context of the complete fucking mayhem that was the Hundred Years' War and its aftermath, all this was peanuts. Others had been killing and pillaging indiscriminately, slaughtering babies, mutilating people for laughs, and occasionally eating them, and here was a bunch of… frat boys that somehow got painted as this sinister criminal organisation.
The activity of these Coquillards was highly localised, and it lasted a few years. It's a stretch to even call them a gang. But over the next centuries, itinerant beggars also got called Coquillards (there's zero evidence that they called themselves that), and there's nothing respectable law-abiding people (so. our historical sources.) love more than vilifying an already marginalised group, especially when they roam and don't stay put. So the two got conflated, and the Coquillards were now painted as a sinister and strictly hierarchical criminal organisation that had spread all over France, like miasma. Good people, beware!
You know how Trump started calling Antifa (with a capital A!) a terrorist organisation, as in a single group and indeed organised (lmao), and inventing wholecloth Latin American cartels and calling them narcoterrorists, and wildly exaggerating the scope, scale, reach, and danger of criminal groups that do exist? It's kind of like that, though the moral panic was less engineered with intent, and more spontaneously springing from the prejudices and narrow interests of those respectable people.
All in all, the legend of the Coquillards is quite relevant to the Thieves' Guild trope, and I'm glad you brought it up! However, I don't think Fritz Leiber or any d&d designer were influenced by it at all, at least AFAIK.





















