Hi! Pen Name is Dalagang Sora but call me Sora šµš she/they | Biromantic Bisexual | why do ppl demand ages the beauty of tumblr is anonymity anyways im way past the age of majority | Current Guilty Pleasure: Greek Mythology
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adhd paralysis sucks bcuz im just sitting there and my brain is like
YOU ARE WASTING TIME YOU ARE WASTING TIME YOU ARE WASTING TIME YOU ARE WASTING TIME YOU ARE WASTING TIME YOU ARE WASTING TIME YOU ARE WASTING TIME YOU ARE WASTING TIME YOU ARE WASTING TIME YOU ARE WASTING TIME
no work done no rest gained. literally no point of this at all
The Details You Missed & The Context Behind Yorozu's Marriage Proposal to Sukuna
WARNING: This post contains content beyond JJK season 3 (cour 1) episode 3. Please DO NOT INTERACT if you don't want any more spoilers. Very long post; unedited
Note: I am tagging this under sukuna x reader and related tags for girlies' inspiration (marriage and proposal) for historical fics.
JJK Chapter 217 (Raws)
I'M BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!
To start off my resurrection, we will dive deep on Chapter 217, the infamous marriage proposal to Sukuna by none other than the legendary simp of Heian era - Yorozu.
In this post, you will learn about:
Heian Marriage Customs (Nobility)
Deep dive of Yorozu's proposal (+ marriage life in Heian era)
The one translation mistake both by Viz and unofficial scans (+ a bit of poetry 101)
So, without further ado, let's go.
Dividers by @/uzmacchiato
Marriage of Nobles in Heian Era
With the exception of arranged marriages, here's how the aristocrats in Heian Era usually get married:
Man courts the lady via intermediary
The lady (and her family) accepts the man's courting and proposal
Wedding Ceremony: Man will visit the lady and spend the night for three nights
Wedding Reception: The families will celebrate the marriage
#1 & 2: Courting & Accepting the Proposal
The man will send an intermediary (usually a servant from his household) to send his poetry to the woman he wants to wed. Then, the woman's mother (and her besties) will judge the man's character through the poetry he sent [or if the woman is independent, divorced and/or working at the court as a lady-in-waiting or what not, the woman will personally judge]. Is the poem beautiful? Is his calligraphy impeccable? Is the paper high quality, and does it smell good?
Genji'sĀ son YÅ«giriĀ (å¤é§; "Evening Mist")Ā reads a letter.Ā Genji Monogatari Emaki, 12th century handscroll, Gotoh Museum.
If he fails in one of these criteria, forget marriage - the family (or the woman) dumps him. Hey, but if they see that those three are at least satisfactory enough and they approve, then they give the poem to the woman who is the intended recipient so she can see and if she likes it, she or a female member of the family will send a reply via her servant from her household. If the man sees the reply to be satisfactory, then he will continue courting the woman.
This courting period can last for months or years. Once the woman accepts and all parties agree to the marriage, the wedding ceremony goes through.
#3: Wedding Ceremony: Spending Three Nights Together
Once the proposal is accepted, they move to the next step - the wedding ceremony. At this time period, the ceremony isn't something like the Shinto wedding that we see these days. The wedding is basically unceremonious and doesn't need any documents to register it.
So, the man visits the woman at her home - almost always her family's - at night, goes to her room, and spends the night with her. This is basically a 'secret' visit [both families of the groom and bride are aware lmao]. The first night is the first opportunity for him to see what she actually looks like because now, there's no screen or blinds hiding her from him.
(Also, the man uses his hakama or whatever the outermost jacket part of his kimono is called as the futon for the two of them)
So this goes on for three nights, with the man leaving the woman's home at dawn in the first two nights and sends a morning-after poem to her through a messenger. The family, then, offers wine and presents to the messenger who delivers these poems.
During these three nights they spend together, they...... indulge in passion..... and have sex........ at least that's what was expected of them...... yeah.......
You can basically say that the ceremony is mostly...... them having sex and doing the lewd things like making out........ unless you also count talking while holding hands????
Anyways, so on the third night - called tokoroarawashi or "exposure of the event" - the he stayes by her side until daylight, where he would be 'discovered' by the woman's parents. Then the couple would be offered breakfast with rice cakes called mikayamochi or "third night cakes", which the family prepared during the night. These mochis represent the married gods Izanami and Izanagi.
And that's it for the wedding ceremony.
#4: Wedding Reception
Even though everyone in the streets should know about the marriage between the man and the lady because word travels very fast, the couple (with the help of their families, mostly the lady's side though) would tend to host a feast some time over the few days after the ceremony just to show off. That is, if they can afford it.
So a wedding reception includes a simple Shinto rite conducted by a Shinto priest, and other rituals related to marriage. The man, the groom, 'officially' meets his in-laws in this occasion.
So pretentious
That's it for the most part..... aside from the food, I can imagine they would also have group poetry session, dances, music, games, contests, archery, or whatever the families could afford.
That concludes the marriage of nobles in Heian era.
Sources: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]
Chapter 217 - The Marriage Proposal of Yorozu to Sukuna
Now, I'll start actually translating and analyzing, using our knowledge of Heian era and the info you just learned above.
#1 & 2: Courting & Accepting the Proposal
So we know that Heian marriage starts with courting initiated by the man.......... but we know that's not the case here because Yorozu took on the role of the man for this role.
Yorozu: It's love. Love. [Refers to Yorozu recognizing Sukuna in his vessel instantly] Within the precepts and the loathing that comes from it, nothing could surpass love.
Yorozu: Say, Sukuna. I want to be the one to kill you, I want you to be the one to kill me. Even so, if you are still alive after I win, what will you give me?
Sukuna: Everything. It's an impossible occurrence, but if it's the case that I lose, I might as well be dead.
Yorozu: *pauses* Then, then. Even something like ma- ma- ma- ma- ma- marriage?
Sukuna: Do what you want.
Basically the courting is a battle to the death, and the condition of the marriage is if Yorozu and Sukuna are both alive, which both parties have agreed to.
I mean Yorozu's love goes back to Heian era in the year 1000s, as depicted in chapter 219, so who knows if she had proposed to him or sent letters to him sometime after this:
JJK Chapter 219
I won't be surprised if this was the culmination of the years Yorozu courted Sukuna in their lifetimes and the 'revitalization of love after more than 1000 years of separation from each other' (-Yorozu, probably).
Also, she also has another condition in her marriage proposal:
Yorozu: I'll be the primary wife!! Concubines or anything similar are not allowed (ever or else)!!
Yorozu wants to be the only wife and the primary wife at that. Being the primary wife means she will be the priority in his visits. You see, in the Heian era, the wife doesn't move into the husband's household.... they live separately for a long time. They live in their homes where they grew up in. The husband usually visits the wife/wives (whether primary or secondary) and his lovers at night in their households, then leaves at dawn.
As the primary wife, the husband would have to visit her the most out of his wives and lovers, and if the time comes when they decide to live together (usually years after their marriage), the husband either: moves either into his primary wife's residence, or to a separate residence that's usually provided by either the wife's or husband's family (or the husband himself if he is rich, which is rare). Very rarely the wife moves into her husband's home. If not, they can choose to live separately until the end.
So if Yorozu was, hypothetically speaking, the primary and only wife, then Sukuna would have to visit her very often, and obviously would have to eventually move into her house, if we're going to follow the nobility customs. As his primary and only wife, Sukuna's clothes would have been made by her, and economically he would be dependent on her (not that it mattered).
But knowing Yorozu, she'd be the one visiting him and moving into his home....... if he has one. [did Sukuna even have one, though, when she met him in Heian era?] And clothes? Forget it - Sukuna is a minimalist and Yorozu loves being naked.
And no concubines meant no secondary wives, so that meant his attention to her won't be divided and he won't need to leave her, worry about whether he'll visit her at sunset, nor would she have to kill to maintain her place as the primary wife.
#3: Wedding Ceremony: Spending Three Nights Together
Now this is where it gets........ disturbing.......
Yorozu: For our wedding ceremony, let us destroy three villages at the very least.
We still remember the traditional Heian wedding, right?
They would have had to spend three nights together. So, while in this panel, Yorozu proposes that they destroy three villages at the bare minimum, it has disturbing implications.
So for one, as part of the wedding ritual, they would have to destroy one village per night. BUT, Sukuna is the strongest jujutsu sorcerer in Heian era and Yorozu is a strong one, too, so destroying villages won't take long at night. So for the rest of the night after........... you get the gist.
This is the one time where I'm so, so glad Sukuna clocked her and beat her ass up. The fact that their vessels are step-siblings makes this interaction pseudo-incest.
So.... yeah..... glad it didn't and will never happen.
That One Translation Mistake by both VIZ & Unofficial Scans
Remember that we are still looking into Yorozu's marriage proposal.
#4: Wedding Reception
This is a bit of a feature because I need to clarify what Yorozu was talking about. The translators, both official and unofficial, have made mistakes.
So let's first look at the English translations:
JJK Chapter 217Left: Viz Translation (Official ENG TL)
Right: Unofficial Scans (Unofficial ENG TL)
These are both the right in that Yorozu was talking about the fun part of what would be their wedding reception, that they'll have the shrunken head or decapitated head of the handsome man, and that they'll write poem. But here's where they messed up: that they would only take the most handsome man in the village, and that they'll write Haiku, which is what annoys me the most.
Here's the translation of this panel - I will feature MegKuna's face because it's so funny:
Yorozu: For the entertainment part [of the wedding reception], we should make shrunken heads of the most handsome man in those villages, and write poetry with everyone about their appearances that gradually changes.
It's funny how the unofficial scans captured almost the entire meaning/translation of this panel better than the official translations, but yeah, there are just a couple of mistakes.
So first off, one thing that you have to keep in mind is that the Japanese language relies a lot on context, and ir almost always don't indicate plural words in their sentences. Also, when the context is obvious or people know what they're talking about, they can omit stuff like in this panel - they omitted three either for villages or the handsome men (äøć¤ for villages, äøäŗŗ for handsome men).
We know that Yorozu was talking about destroying three villages for the wedding ceremony, so we should already know that when she started talking about the shrunken heads part, we readers should have already understood that she would take the heads of the most handsome man in each of the three villages for the poetry session.
Which is why the illustration of Yorozu's poem featured three human heads:
Speaking of poetry, both translations said 'write Haiku'. Haiku DID NOT exist in the Heian era. It didn't become a thing until hundreds of years later.
So in Yorozu's dialogue, we see the kanji å„ (pronounced as ku). which literally means stanza. So Yorozu literally says 'make stanzas' and I cleaned that up to writing poetry. Because she said, 'write poetry with everyone', this means that the second [the first being decapitating heads] fun part of the wedding reception would be a collaborative poetry session with the guests. There's only one kind of collaborative poetry that is popular in Heian era.
It's called Renga (é£ę), the predecessor of Haikai, which was the predecessor of Haiku. Basically the grandparent of Haiku.
Originally, it began as a two stanza poem that involved two poets or writers, which is categorized as Tanrenga. The first writer writes the first stanza in a 5-7-5 form then the second one writes the last stanza in a 7-7 form. As Tanrenga became more and more popular, it became more complex and intricate that it gained popularity as a game, and events were held to create the best ones. Eventually, because there were more participants, other forms like Chourenga (Long Renga) and Hyakuin Renga (100 stanza Renga) were created, with the 100 stanza Renga eventually becoming the basis for what we know as Renga today. [basically this is the summary of the Wiki page]
In this collaborative poetry, the first to write poem has one job - write the first stanza (called Jouku äøå„ in tanrenga and Hokku ēŗå„ in Hyakuin Renga). The first stanza has to be the only verse in the entire poem that can be considered to be a stand-alone poem. It also must illustrate the ba, which is the location (e.g. garden), the season, and so on. The structure is basically the same as Haiku - a 5-7-5 verse with a cutting word (Kireji, see the Reddit post here for some examples) and a seasonal word/reference (Kigo, see this site for examples of Kigo used in Haiku). It is the hardest to write, so usually the most experienced and talented poet starts it off.
Which makes Sukuna's face even funnier:
Yorozu was basically proposing that the most entertaining part of the wedding reception would include doing a Renga session with the guests, where they would write about the three shrunken heads of the most handsome men from the three villages destroyed. Then she wrote this verse and showed it to him:
Even handsome men
If dried out, becomes flaky
Truly exquisite
ā Yorozu
It is in the 5-7-5 form and has a cutting word (ć) at the very last line. It sets the topic. Also, I love how most of the vocabulary are modern Japanese words except ććØććć, which are Heian-era words with ć㨠meaning 'very, truly' and ććć holding various meaning like 'beautiful, funny, interesting, awesome, marvelous, cute, lovely, amazing, and so on'. Though she should've written the sentence as ććØććć, the original way it was written back then.
BUT it doesn't indicate the location (e.g. garden) and IT DOESN'T HAVE A SEASONAL WORD.
The word that would've illustrated the season and would've allowed the participants to determine the words they should use [Yes, there are rules in poetry that all the nobles follow].
That's why Sukuna is alarmed that there's no seasonal word because what Yorozu wrote would have been the first stanza of the Renga poem, and it's a disaster!
Also knowing how people judged others' poems during this era, as you've seen how poems of men sent to the lady he was courting in the Heian marriage section, I don't think Sukuna was only horrified at the lack of the seasonal word.
This man must've been judging her poem. He'd be looking at her penmanship [she must've used a pen not ink], the vocabulary she used, and the substance of what she wrote........ and safe to say, he doesn't like what she wrote at all. It's funny to us, but at an objective standpoint, it's crap. Basically, brainrot in Heian era standards.
So you can't blame Sukuna's expression here.
But given what we know about Yorozu, I'm not surprised she's breaking all the rules even in writing poetry. What's surprising, though, was that Sukuna, the most hedonistic man in JJK, respects tradition and rules (in the arts and jujutsu, at the very least).
That's about it. I'm glad Sukuna killed Yorozu or else we'll see some pseudo-incest sh*t going on even though the ones inhabiting Megumi and Tsumiki aren't related at all.
Plus, we don't need to eat Monkey Brain Potage at a wedding reception..... can't believe Yorozu chose this as the main dish for a wedding reception:
Yorozu: Let's have them [Uraume] be responsible for cooking. Monkey Brain Potage is a must (no matter what)!!
It would've been hilarious if Kenjaku in Geto's body had eaten this, ngl.
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as a former escape room host i highly recommend doing an escape room as a first date. its a great way to learn how ppl react under pressure and how well they collaborate with you right off the bat. also more than once ive seen people enter an escape room as a couple and exit broken up LOL its a fantastic litmus test
sorry to broadcast ur tags but this is also a valuable part of the litmus test! it seems like you learned a lot about how this person makes you feel in their social group. they didn't go out of their way to include you, and neither did their friends. therefore you can come to a pretty good conclusion about how you might feel being part of their life outside of an escape room; someone who doesnt include you or your feelings in a game is likely going to do the same in other situations
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I've noted before that my favorite punchline on Tumblr is "hang on, gotta look something up/okay that's funny."
Let me explain why:
It is a way to say "I don't get it" without blaming the joke or the teller.
It is a tacit admission of ignorance without shame or judgement.
It assumes responsibility for acquiring the knowledge the respondent doesn't already have.
It cues other people who Don't Get It to do the look-up themselves, allowing them to get that full impact of Getting It without derailing the post with explanations.
It gives subsequent readers, whether or not THEY got the joke, a little frisson of good feelings when they realize that someone else is now In On The Joke.
It not only makes the original joke funnier, it gets funnier the more often it's used.
Description: TikTok video by The Panda Redd. Re-enactment of final scene of Under the Hood. All roles played by Panda (a tall, well-built young white man with a mohawk, wearing a grey hoodie). Setting is a dark basement lit only by a hanging light bulb.
Transcript.
Jason: (holding gun on Bruce) "Bruce, I forgive you for not saving me."
Batman: (glares silently)
Jason: "But why? Why on God's Earthā" (hits Joker across the face)
Joker (tied to a chair): *cackles*
Jason: "āis HE still alive??"
Joker: "AHAHAHAHAHHAHA!"
Batman:
Batman: "I'm sorry, d'you want me to be serious here orā?"
Jason: (in disbelief) "YES, Bruce! I want you to be serious right now! If he had done what he did to me to you, I would've done nothing but search the earth for this pile of death-worshipping garbage!"
Joker: "I love you too, Sugar Plum."
Batman: (holds hands up) "Okay, yeah, I get that, totally, I get that. Um. Have you tried?"
Jason: "Excuse you?"
Batman: "Have you tried to kill him yet?"
Jason: (to Joker) "Is he being serious?"
Joker: (also confused) "I'm gonna be honest with you, Junior. I don't know."
Jason: "Got it. Great." (turns back to Batman) "What the fuck does THAT mean?"
Batman: "Okay, so no, you haven't. Cool. Do it."
Jason:
Jason: (lowers gun) "What."
Batman: "Do it, cap his ass. Shoot him."
Joker: (finally rattled) "I'm gonna go with Junior here, and say...what??"
Jason: "You want me to shoot him?"
Batman: "I want someone to shoot him! Give me the gun, I'll do it!"
Jason: (mutters, brain blue screening) "What is going on right now? This should a lot harder than it is."
Batman: "C'mon, son! You decapitated like eleven people three days ago! Fuckin' do it!"
Joker: (turns to Jason quizzically) "This has gotta be some sort of test, riā"
(BANG! Jason fires. Joker lands on the floor lifeless, eyes still open.)
Jason: "There, you happy? Jesus. Was that so hard? All of this time and it was THAT easy!"
Jason: "What the fuck is that supposed toā" (looks down at floor where the Joker was lying)
Batman: "I don't know what you're talking about 'easy'. There's nothing there." (nods at floor)
Floor: (is devoid of Joker)
Jason: (stares)
Floor: (continues to be sans anything but carpet)
Jason: "What the fuck?"
Batman: "Yeah."
Jason: "WHAT THE FUCK?"
Batman: "Take as long as you need with this."
Jason: (looking around frantically) "I just shot him! He hit the floor! What the fā" (turns back to the floor)
Floor: (is just vibin')
Jason: "Where the fuck did he go??"
Batman: "See that shit? That shit right there happens every fucking time!"
Jason: "There's not even a blood stain! It's just gone!"
Batman: "Yeah, like two days after you died, I chased him into a helicopter where he got shot like six times. The helicopter exploded and crashed into the ocean. And his body was gone before Superman could find it."
Jason: "Oh my God. I don't understand how this is even fucking possible!"
Batman: "He's like a cryptid! I don't fucking get it!"
Joker: (disembodied laughter) "AHAHAHAHA HAHAHA!"
Jason: (freaked out, turning in circles trying to find him) "Oh my God!"
Batman: "THAT OMINOUS SHIT HAPPENS TOO! I DON'T KNOW, DUDE!"
Jason: "Dude. Fuck whatever's going on here, that's some fucking bullshit."
Bruce, actually being genuine and concerned: why are you still single
Jason, offended: i know you did not just say that
Jason: you? of all people?
Jason: being gothamās most eligible bachelor for 30 years straight isnāt a compliment
Jason: the public only votes for you ācause they have daddy issues and they like silver foxes
Jason: but youre not even a silver fox anymore, youre an arctic fox
Jason: no onesās lining up for your wrinkly ass
Jason: god forbid they find out youre a furry too like damn
Bruce:
-
-
Talia al Ghul, watching them from the window, covered in blood after taking over the LOA so that she, Bruce, and Damian can ride off to the sunset together:
Selina Kyle, next to her, holding Grace Kelly's $38.8 million Cartier ring as an engagement ring to Bruce:
Harvey Dent, in therapy for Bruce:
Superman, rearranging the stars to make a Batman/Bruce constellation:
Wonder Woman, picking out wedding dresses (for Bruce):
Hal Jordan:
Hal Jordan: what
Hal Jordan: im not in love with mr dark and brooding
Hal Jordan:
Hal Jordan, screeching at the other Green Lanterns to stay away from Gotham because Bruce didnt want anyone messing with it:
Raās and Joker, dead, still pining, but mostly dead:
people still donāt understand batmanās rogue gallery and what they represent to him. hollywood i will kill you. listen: each batman villain challenges a different aspect of his character and/or philosophy, and it is why grim dark batman was never meant to work
joker: chaos and order.
the foil to batmanās suppressed madness. bruce is discipline; none is above the code and justice. āyouāre just one bad day away from being like meā WRONG!! bruce wayne has not had a good day since he was 10 years old. every good thing that happens to him is followed by 100 bad things. he is the universeās punching bag. and yet he persists, does he not? does he not still believe in goodness in spite of it all? suck my dick joker he does not think of you AT ALL you are nuisance to him he wants to spend the one day off he has every year with his family and friends and you had to ruin it with ur lame jokes and terrorist attacks
riddler: obsession and intellect.
the foil to batmanās ego. bruce wayne is one of the smartest people in the world, by way of writer favouritism. wdym you outsmarted brainiac, a being of pure intelligence, just because ur the authorās favourite pretty princess? alright king whatever u say. but he never lets it rule him. his intelligence is a tool to of protection; itās a shield, not a sword. heād never raise it against the innocent. edward uses his intelligence to prove superiority, that he is better. he is batman without humility, and that is why he will always lose, because intelligence is nothing without wisdom
the penguin: wealth and corruption.
the foil to batmanās class. theyāre both billionaires, Gothamite socialites. oswald embraces his privilege and uses it to oppress the poor. bruce wayne understands his privilege and uses it to pull others up. āyou wear a mask tooā yeah and itās prettier than urs u ugly bitch. oswaldās socialite mask is a polished classy persona that disguises his inner evil. bruceās socialite mask is just a himbo and remains true to his desire to help people
mr freeze: love and grief.
foil to batmanās ability to move on from the past. victor fries cannot let go of his wife and makes it everybody elseās problem. this is also the philosophy of grimdark batman, which is why it cannot apply to batmanās true character. bruce wayne is traumatized from his parentsā deaths, but it also inspired him to become the person who he wished had saved him in that alley. how many times has he looked into the eyes of a scared child on patrol and saw himself? he became the saviour for his 10 year old self left in that alleyway. he was able to heal; yes, his parents deaths has shaped him into the man he is, thatās literally what life does. healing doesnāt mean the grief will shrink, but your world grows bigger around it. he has a family again, built by his own hands
scarecrow: fear and power.
the foil to batmanās darkness. batman is iconic for instilling crippling terror into others by a mere look, psychics hate him because his mind is a screaming hellscape, he dresses like a bat because when he was a kid he fell into a hole filled with bats and he associates it with fear. jonathan uses fear to control the helpless, bruce instills fear in evil to protect the righteous. āyouāre just as ruled by fearā WRONG!!! batman is ruled by love. itās not fear that powers him when he drags his mangled, half-dead body off the streets at every dawn to go home for a costume change and immediately go to a charity gala for disadvantaged youths named after his street-rat son. itās not fear that inspired him to keep lollipops in his utility belt for the children he saves. itās not fear that makes him do the same old shit of throwing you fuckers into that useless max security prison twice a week after getting his shit rocked, knowing full well heād have to do it again in a few days, instead of just killing you.
two-face: duality and justice.
the foil to batmanās divided self. harvey started off as a batman, a lawyer wanting to do good. his trauma split him, but bruce integrated it into himself. bruce wayne does not reject his pain, he lets it shape him and he asks himself: āok that sucked. how do i make sure nobody else will experience that?ā harvey dent is completely split, indecisive in his morality, good and evil depends on the flip of a coin. but batman? people say that bruce wayne is the mask and batman is his true self. dawg do u think his kids call him batman? thatās some shit heād say in his 20s when he was figuring himself out but heās a middle aged father now and his children would drag him to filth if he says his black-leather bat fursona is his ātrue selfā. they are all him. brucie wayne isnāt completely his mask either, because itās the persona he uses to fuck with rich people and you know full well heād delights in that to the bottom of his heart
his rogue gallery is a mirror to each aspect of himself. everything high-brow reddit bros and zack snyder says about batmanās edgy true self is literally disproven by the people batman spends his life trying to save. heās not on the edge of villaindom; he stares his inner evil that takes on the faces of broken people in the eyes every night and says āthis isnāt the way forwardā
If the rouges are meant to contrast with one element of Batman's character, then Ra's al Ghul is just one big "Dark Mirror" to Batman, the "final boss" if you would. A self-righteous, powerful, cunning, and wealthy older man who's made himself into a legend at the cost of his own sanity and he's willing to kill for the sake of his idea of justice. He's the worst case scenario, the bad ending, what half of reddit describes Batman as. Yet Bruce also looks at him and says "you're wrong."
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people still donāt understand batmanās rogue gallery and what they represent to him. hollywood i will kill you. listen: each batman villain challenges a different aspect of his character and/or philosophy, and it is why grim dark batman was never meant to work
joker: chaos and order.
the foil to batmanās suppressed madness. bruce is discipline; none is above the code and justice. āyouāre just one bad day away from being like meā WRONG!! bruce wayne has not had a good day since he was 10 years old. every good thing that happens to him is followed by 100 bad things. he is the universeās punching bag. and yet he persists, does he not? does he not still believe in goodness in spite of it all? suck my dick joker he does not think of you AT ALL you are nuisance to him he wants to spend the one day off he has every year with his family and friends and you had to ruin it with ur lame jokes and terrorist attacks
riddler: obsession and intellect.
the foil to batmanās ego. bruce wayne is one of the smartest people in the world, by way of writer favouritism. wdym you outsmarted brainiac, a being of pure intelligence, just because ur the authorās favourite pretty princess? alright king whatever u say. but he never lets it rule him. his intelligence is a tool to of protection; itās a shield, not a sword. heād never raise it against the innocent. edward uses his intelligence to prove superiority, that he is better. he is batman without humility, and that is why he will always lose, because intelligence is nothing without wisdom
the penguin: wealth and corruption.
the foil to batmanās class. theyāre both billionaires, Gothamite socialites. oswald embraces his privilege and uses it to oppress the poor. bruce wayne understands his privilege and uses it to pull others up. āyou wear a mask tooā yeah and itās prettier than urs u ugly bitch. oswaldās socialite mask is a polished classy persona that disguises his inner evil. bruceās socialite mask is just a himbo and remains true to his desire to help people
mr freeze: love and grief.
foil to batmanās ability to move on from the past. victor fries cannot let go of his wife and makes it everybody elseās problem. this is also the philosophy of grimdark batman, which is why it cannot apply to batmanās true character. bruce wayne is traumatized from his parentsā deaths, but it also inspired him to become the person who he wished had saved him in that alley. how many times has he looked into the eyes of a scared child on patrol and saw himself? he became the saviour for his 10 year old self left in that alleyway. he was able to heal; yes, his parents deaths has shaped him into the man he is, thatās literally what life does. healing doesnāt mean the grief will shrink, but your world grows bigger around it. he has a family again, built by his own hands
scarecrow: fear and power.
the foil to batmanās darkness. batman is iconic for instilling crippling terror into others by a mere look, psychics hate him because his mind is a screaming hellscape, he dresses like a bat because when he was a kid he fell into a hole filled with bats and he associates it with fear. jonathan uses fear to control the helpless, bruce instills fear in evil to protect the righteous. āyouāre just as ruled by fearā WRONG!!! batman is ruled by love. itās not fear that powers him when he drags his mangled, half-dead body off the streets at every dawn to go home for a costume change and immediately go to a charity gala for disadvantaged youths named after his street-rat son. itās not fear that inspired him to keep lollipops in his utility belt for the children he saves. itās not fear that makes him do the same old shit of throwing you fuckers into that useless max security prison twice a week after getting his shit rocked, knowing full well heād have to do it again in a few days, instead of just killing you.
two-face: duality and justice.
the foil to batmanās divided self. harvey started off as a batman, a lawyer wanting to do good. his trauma split him, but bruce integrated it into himself. bruce wayne does not reject his pain, he lets it shape him and he asks himself: āok that sucked. how do i make sure nobody else will experience that?ā harvey dent is completely split, indecisive in his morality, good and evil depends on the flip of a coin. but batman? people say that bruce wayne is the mask and batman is his true self. dawg do u think his kids call him batman? thatās some shit heād say in his 20s when he was figuring himself out but heās a middle aged father now and his children would drag him to filth if he says his black-leather bat fursona is his ātrue selfā. they are all him. brucie wayne isnāt completely his mask either, because itās the persona he uses to fuck with rich people and you know full well heād delights in that to the bottom of his heart
his rogue gallery is a mirror to each aspect of himself. everything high-brow reddit bros and zack snyder says about batmanās edgy true self is literally disproven by the people batman spends his life trying to save. heās not on the edge of villaindom; he stares his inner evil that takes on the faces of broken people in the eyes every night and says āthis isnāt the way forwardā
If the rouges are meant to contrast with one element of Batman's character, then Ra's al Ghul is just one big "Dark Mirror" to Batman, the "final boss" if you would. A self-righteous, powerful, cunning, and wealthy older man who's made himself into a legend at the cost of his own sanity and he's willing to kill for the sake of his idea of justice. He's the worst case scenario, the bad ending, what half of reddit describes Batman as. Yet Bruce also looks at him and says "you're wrong."
Batman wants to bring security and control to Gotham but is deeply motivated by wanting to bring security and control to himself, since he's lacked it ever since the death of his parents. The Mad Hatter also wants security and control for himself, but will achieve it through making things unsecure for others and flat-out taking control of them, disregarding their autonomy.
Clayface: identity and adaptability.
Batman is a master of disguise and thinking on his feet, plus in a meta sense he is infinitely adaptable; there is no definitive Batman, no single way to present him. The parallel to Clayface is obvious, with the difference being that when Clayface does it, it's dangerous.
Bane: birth through trauma and self-improvement.
Bane suffered far more than Bruce as a child, and like Bruce it's that trauma that shaped him into who he is now, motivating him to push himself to the limits of his physical and mental prowess. However, Bane uses that physical and mental prowess solely to hurt, to "break"; not ever to help and heal. Batman wants to protects Gotham, while Bane wants to conquer it.
I could go on (Catwoman, Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, Man-Bat, Black Mask, Zsasz, Hush, etc.)
people still donāt understand batmanās rogue gallery and what they represent to him. hollywood i will kill you. listen: each batman villain challenges a different aspect of his character and/or philosophy, and it is why grim dark batman was never meant to work
joker: chaos and order.
the foil to batmanās suppressed madness. bruce is discipline; none is above the code and justice. āyouāre just one bad day away from being like meā WRONG!! bruce wayne has not had a good day since he was 10 years old. every good thing that happens to him is followed by 100 bad things. he is the universeās punching bag. and yet he persists, does he not? does he not still believe in goodness in spite of it all? suck my dick joker he does not think of you AT ALL you are nuisance to him he wants to spend the one day off he has every year with his family and friends and you had to ruin it with ur lame jokes and terrorist attacks
riddler: obsession and intellect.
the foil to batmanās ego. bruce wayne is one of the smartest people in the world, by way of writer favouritism. wdym you outsmarted brainiac, a being of pure intelligence, just because ur the authorās favourite pretty princess? alright king whatever u say. but he never lets it rule him. his intelligence is a tool to of protection; itās a shield, not a sword. heād never raise it against the innocent. edward uses his intelligence to prove superiority, that he is better. he is batman without humility, and that is why he will always lose, because intelligence is nothing without wisdom
the penguin: wealth and corruption.
the foil to batmanās class. theyāre both billionaires, Gothamite socialites. oswald embraces his privilege and uses it to oppress the poor. bruce wayne understands his privilege and uses it to pull others up. āyou wear a mask tooā yeah and itās prettier than urs u ugly bitch. oswaldās socialite mask is a polished classy persona that disguises his inner evil. bruceās socialite mask is just a himbo and remains true to his desire to help people
mr freeze: love and grief.
foil to batmanās ability to move on from the past. victor fries cannot let go of his wife and makes it everybody elseās problem. this is also the philosophy of grimdark batman, which is why it cannot apply to batmanās true character. bruce wayne is traumatized from his parentsā deaths, but it also inspired him to become the person who he wished had saved him in that alley. how many times has he looked into the eyes of a scared child on patrol and saw himself? he became the saviour for his 10 year old self left in that alleyway. he was able to heal; yes, his parents deaths has shaped him into the man he is, thatās literally what life does. healing doesnāt mean the grief will shrink, but your world grows bigger around it. he has a family again, built by his own hands
scarecrow: fear and power.
the foil to batmanās darkness. batman is iconic for instilling crippling terror into others by a mere look, psychics hate him because his mind is a screaming hellscape, he dresses like a bat because when he was a kid he fell into a hole filled with bats and he associates it with fear. jonathan uses fear to control the helpless, bruce instills fear in evil to protect the righteous. āyouāre just as ruled by fearā WRONG!!! batman is ruled by love. itās not fear that powers him when he drags his mangled, half-dead body off the streets at every dawn to go home for a costume change and immediately go to a charity gala for disadvantaged youths named after his street-rat son. itās not fear that inspired him to keep lollipops in his utility belt for the children he saves. itās not fear that makes him do the same old shit of throwing you fuckers into that useless max security prison twice a week after getting his shit rocked, knowing full well heād have to do it again in a few days, instead of just killing you.
two-face: duality and justice.
the foil to batmanās divided self. harvey started off as a batman, a lawyer wanting to do good. his trauma split him, but bruce integrated it into himself. bruce wayne does not reject his pain, he lets it shape him and he asks himself: āok that sucked. how do i make sure nobody else will experience that?ā harvey dent is completely split, indecisive in his morality, good and evil depends on the flip of a coin. but batman? people say that bruce wayne is the mask and batman is his true self. dawg do u think his kids call him batman? thatās some shit heād say in his 20s when he was figuring himself out but heās a middle aged father now and his children would drag him to filth if he says his black-leather bat fursona is his ātrue selfā. they are all him. brucie wayne isnāt completely his mask either, because itās the persona he uses to fuck with rich people and you know full well heād delights in that to the bottom of his heart
his rogue gallery is a mirror to each aspect of himself. everything high-brow reddit bros and zack snyder says about batmanās edgy true self is literally disproven by the people batman spends his life trying to save. heās not on the edge of villaindom; he stares his inner evil that takes on the faces of broken people in the eyes every night and says āthis isnāt the way forwardā
Op, I absolutely love this post, and I agree with you wholeheartedly because itās something Iāve been thinking for a while. I wanted to reblog with an edition of another rogue, because this very observation is how I think we can get so much better writing out of his storylines.
As a Jervis fan, a lot of his comic runs disappoint me because theyāre so lazy in his villainy. We donāt need 50 million comics of him being some sort of creep, I frankly find it boring and bland and lazy, misogynistic writing.
So the question is, if the majority of his comics portray him a creep, why am I a Jervis fan in the first place?
I think he has some insane potential to challenge a usually taken-for-granted part of Batmanās character and philosophy.
Bruceās happiness (or lack thereof)
Letās take the most well-written (in my opinion) example of Mad Hatter as an example. This comes from Batman Gotham Adventures Issue #37, whose plot is based off BTAS s1ep24 āPerchance to Dreamā
In this episode/comic, Jervis traps Batman in a fantasy world using his mind-control tech, a world where his parents live and heās in a healthy, committed relationship. One where heās happy.
At the end, Bruce rejects the fantasy world. Because itās wrong to him to live in a world where he isnāt miserable. Because to live without his misery is to live without Batman. Itās who he is.
Weāve all seen Marthaās pearls fall a million times after all.
In one of Tim Saleās new Absolute Batman: The Long Halloween 2026 issues, he still makes Jerv a creep (bc of course :(() , but he does make the Mad Hatter have interesting connection to Bruceās childhoodā¦by having Alice in Wonderland be one of the staple childhood stories that Martha read to Bruce.
I just think that Jervis would be a lot more interesting if the writers also treated him as a foil to Batmanā
By representing that childhood innocence and happiness that defines who Bruce would be if Batman was not.
(Or maybe even the happiness he could get from the bat family / the family he createdā¦.)
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