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@unicornhazel
Technoblade

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I don't want to fight you on your Hayden opinion (bc i do think all of what you've said made sense! Re them behaving like hissy cats for understandable reasons) just offering the book perspective since that where ig a lot of ppls Hayden opinions come from. My Dinner With Hayden is like ...so so bad to me. This man literally tries to physically fight Ilya in his own home for the crime of being bisexual. Additionally during tlg he like actually believes that Ilya fakes being attracted to men, tanked his career and accepted never being able to go this his birth country again just to ruin Shane's career. Like idk the dynamic you're describing for them totally makes sense at the beginning of the relationship reveal but it just never gets better in canon and takes on comical dimensions. Yeah Ilya is poking him but Hayden is going nuclear every chance he gets. (Not helped by the fact that imho opinions Hayden isn't exactly depicted as being an actual good friend to Shane in any other meaningful way)
i know i' venturing into things i shouldn't in responding, but like. i feel like you're reading it with a VERY decided opinion that's coloring your impression (and that's human and understandable. like it's not a hit. it just kind of sounds like you're still putting a lot of blame on hayden in the dynamic that i don't necessarily think he deserves). like in my dinner with hayden:
Thank you for this. I can't stand the way people shit on Hayden in this fandom for no fucking reason when 99% of the issues between them are Ilya's fault. I love Ilya and understand some of his thought process, but he is still being a dick to Hayden for no reason.
I also want to push back on the "Hayden isn't a good friend" and "never gets better in canon" thing because... Yes it does??
Actual Hayden Pike in TLG:
This is your daily reminder that canon Shane Hollander never showed any sings of ´femininity’ as a social concept. Never showed any child like quirks. Had a lot of close friends and bagged some hot people. Is very horny and foul mouthed and out freaked Ilya multiple times.
So yeah, I don’t know why a part of this fandom likes to feminize or infantilise him.

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It’s crazy cuz when Shane is like guys I think everyone will hate me if I come out everyone is like (gaslighting him) Shane. You’re literally gaslighting yourself right now. This will not happen. And then when it happens Shane is like SEE??? and everyone is like Shane it’s so crazy that we all hate you now. It’s completely your fault. You should have said something Shane. If you had just told us sooner about the thing we hate you for we would hate you so much less.
Warning for possible author engaging in recreational projection onto one Shane Hollander below, as I try work out some arguments I've seen about Shane's relationship with his parents:
No matter how you shake it, book canon or tv canon, Shane has a loving, involved family. They are a positive force in his life. I personally have a very loving, involved family. In the show, Yuna is Shane's manager. In the books, she's less involved, but it's implied that she's involved in the Foundation in TLG, and keeps tabs on Shane getting things done in regards to that (why these billionaire hockey players are doing paperwork for their 401c, I'll never understand, but you gotta have them do something, so as a writer I get that lol). Focusing more on show-Yuna though, I don't think she's like this crazy controlling presence in Shane's life. I don't think she pushes him into anything. He wants to be an elite athlete, and I think he sees the necessity in cultivating a public image, both for money and for his longevity as a public figure. Shane wouldn't get sprayed down and hold a can of orange bullshit if he didn't see the reason for it. I don't think show-Shane, even if he's a little milder than book-shane, is so easily pushed around. (I don't actually think he's that much milder, I just think Shane's internal monologue in the book makes him edgier to the reader, but that's beside the point)
The way I interpret Yuna (and David, to some extent), is that they aren't pushy, they're involved and knowledgeable parents to a very accommodating, respectful, successful son. The lunch scenes in episodes 1 and 4 are so important here. We can see that Shane has set a standard in how he interacts with his parents. He's on time. He makes time for them, these meetings are both business and quality time he spends with them during the season.
The first lunch in ep1, Shane is in decent spirits, but he's late, and it's implied that it's because he was watching YouTube videos of Ilya and lost track of time (animal videos, my ass, Shane). Yuna and David don't give him a hard time about it, but they do point it out. And Yuna makes sure to point out that it's not normal for Shane to be late. Shane has established a baseline of behavior to his parents. He's not a wild card. He's not unpredictable. He's punctual and reliable. It's weird to them if he steps outside of that baseline.
The second lunch ep2, Shane is visibly stressed. He's quiet, a little short in his responses. Yuna brings up Wimbleton and the Rolex box. Shane is adamant that he doesn't want to go. David and Yuna both try to convince him, showing that they are comfortable stating their case to Shane and are secure in their knowledge that he will see things "their way" once he listens. Shane doesn't want wine, which is commented on. He snaps directly at both conversations, "Why, because I don't want wine?" and "What am I supposed to talk about, Swedish politics?" To me, David and Yuna are pretty shocked by Shane's behavior. Not enough to lash out, but enough that we can assume that this isn't a common occurrence for Shane at their lunches. They know something is wrong with Shane, but they aren't asking the right questions. They're just trying to cheer him up or "solve" the immediate problem. They're pretty visibly choosing to stay surface level about it.
It passes. Shane softens, settles, hedges, says okay, maybe let's think about going to London, maybe it could be fun. And then he goes to the bathroom to fully end the conversation. So that he can come back calm, happy, and in control of the situation.
What I find relatable here, especially as someone with caring, involved, sometimes too involved, parents, is that while Yuna and David are showing concern and care for Shane, they are ignorant or unable to address what he needs. Let's talk about Shane as a child. We know very little. My interpretation is that Shane was an intense, driven, serious kid who had a dream. Parents of kids with big, serious dreams are under a lot of pressure themselves, but I think what made it easy for David and Yuna is that Shane was just an easy kid to care for. I don't think Shane had big loud tantrums, I don't think he cried a lot, I don't think he needed a lot. Just hockey. New skates, new sticks, new pads, money for the leagues, money to travel—everything to hockey.
But Shane never gave them any trouble! We know he had nice high school girlfriends that he, notably, didn't impregnate. He gets to the top of his sport, the absolute pinnacle, and is drafted young into the NHL. He's going to be a star! I could see, in interviews, David and Yuna saying things like "we always knew he would do whatever he set out to do."
So, back to episode 4 lunch. What does Shane need? Or, what does Shane need to do in order to actually get help from his parents? Simply put, Shane needs to come out of the closet. He needs to tell his parents he's gay, if not tell them everything that's happening with Ilya. Ilya is the elephant in the room. Ilya is why he's late in episode 1, and it's why Shane is snappish in episode 4. The missing link to Shane's parents knowing him completely, is, in a simplified sense, ILYA, because to Shane, Ilya represents choice, desire, rebellion, assertion, and adulthood. Grown up decisions made by a grown up.
David and Yuna are good people, Shane has no reason to believe they'd react with homophobia. The Ilya of it all would be complicated, sure, but he knows they'd come around.
So it's not Yuna and David, really, driving the Shane Hollander closet express. It's Shane. Because Shane has never failed them, never disappointed them, never given them reason to wring their hands and worry, until now. It's uncomfortable for him! But this is in part because while David and Yuna took care of their son's external needs (hockey, health, shelter, etc) and his financial needs (endorsements, financial responsibility), they have failed to understand any dark parts of their son. They have failed to see that he grew up lonely (my interpretation, I don't know if canon supports this wholly), that he didn't really care for the girls he was dating, that he isolates himself when he's upset (leaving tuna melt-gate, going to the bathroom during lunch, breaking away from JJ's friend group right before he meets Rose).
So when Shane obfuscates to Ilya in Episode 6 about why he doesn't want to come out to his parents (with or without the Ilya factor), I think that Shane is thinking that he doesn't know how to disappoint his parents, but I also think he's remembering that every time he's tried to show them his fears or emotions, they haven't explored them. They haven't dug deeper. They do everything for him, everything except really learn about him. There was a tweet or post or something a while back that was like "You can't just do things for people and call that love, at some point you have to do the work of understanding them" and when David discovers Shane and Ilya at the cottage it forces them into understanding. Into viewing their good, uncomplicated son as an adult, as a person with needs and desires, messy complex ones at that, and when you are a Good Child, sometimes you get very accustomed to your parents not seeing you as a creature of need at all.
Idk guys I just feel like the whole Metroyageur betrayal hits a lot harder when you recognize that Shane actually liked his guys and hung out with them and enjoyed being their captain. Like yeah okay they end up being human garbage but if Shane KNEW that they were human garbage it wouldn't matter to him so much when they turn on him. I know that the idea that an ugly soul is obvious on the face is weirdly pervasive in certain contexts but I cannot stress enough that sometimes you don't see that shit coming. Yes there was probably some casual homophobia and racism happening in that locker room but there is probably not a single environment where Shane wasn't experiencing at least some of that except maybe his own kitchen table. Even ILYA says that weird thing about his looks. If Shane presses the eject button on socializing with everyone who ever said the word cocksucker in his presence he would literally be a paraiah. And we know that's not the case. Shane is beloved in his city and in his room. Until he's not.
Hayden and Ilya are actually friends by The Long Game. They're Vitriolic Best Buds, a very old trope. They're Bugs Bunny & Daffy Duck.
The ONLY time Hayden genuinely takes issue with Ilya and pushes the subject is in My Dinner With Hayden (to ILYA, while ILYA is there provoking him, not to Shane, because he is feeling protective of Shane, not angry with him- the subject of his anger is very clearly ILYA), and Shane yells at both of them about it and he immediately sees the error of his ways and apologizes. IMMEDIATELY.
It is canon that he is enough of a well-meaning idiot to question the relationship in a pretty dickish way! I will give you that! But it is also canon that he only does it once and when Shane gets mad he understands he was being a dick, apologizes, and doesn't do it again.
And again, by the time of The Long Game (two years after My Dinner With Hayden)- he and Ilya are Daffy and Bugs. They don't hate each other. They are pretending to for the sake of the bit.
👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻
Please please please people need to understand this. They don’t hate each other! It’s honestly super weird how many fans seem to think Ilya and Hayden hate each other considering the book they keep quoting has Ilya calling Hayden “a good friend” “a good dad” and “a good person” within it.
Hayden saying Shane could do better than Ilya is a joke, he says this in like the same paragraph. He wasn’t actually telling Shane to try cheating.
Hayden getting annoyed with Ilya during the Jackie is hurt scene is him being tense because his wife is hurt not jealousy for Ilya touching Jackie.
i did really like daniel in the books and other adaptations, but i think what they’ve done with him in the amc series is so incredibly cool and intriguing.
the concept of a cynical, acerbic old journalist who battled a lifetime of trauma and addiction being faced with mortality through a fatal degenerative disease that will slowly rob him of his autonomy. a closeted elder gay man who spent the 80s in the queer scene in san francisco living through the aids crisis. he’s persistently clever and cunning and is strongly implied to have some sort of resistance towards mind control. he’s ruined every single relationship in his life so now he’s an asshole old man living alone with a terminal illness and his daughters don’t even talk to him while he keeps their childhood belongings in his closet. he ruins lives and people but is an expert at self-preservation.
and now! he’s a vampire, cured of his degenerative disease, free of the threat of mortality that has been looming over his head since the 80s, and he’s a cool mean old gay guy vampire who walks around in a leather jacket and sunglasses ripping people’s heads off and smoking out of a hookah. he’s been saved from death but given a fate that many in-universe consider arguably worse.

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Up at 4am thinking about how much I love Shane Hollander
imagine going to an auction for your “deceased” ex husband who is also placing bids on his own stuff because unaware to you he is in another body meanwhile you are using the same continuous bidding as foreplay with your second ex husband over the same shit that belonged to your first ex husband who your second ex husband was also obsessed with. this happened to my good friend louis de pointe du lac
shane is so brave making big steps to pursue ilya in HR yes. but he is even more brave in TLG i think because he is even more scared than he was before. putting his hand on ilya’s back in the club gets me every time. standing up against crowell. MUST I REMIND YOU he initiated their first date in public getting chicken parm. he wanted to be out just as bad as ilya and he was so so scared and he was so so brave
hi everyone im a blonde bisexual looking to terrorize the local club population which should I go with
What if you were BLACK and GAY and a PIMP in early 20th century Louisiana, and you FELL IN LOVE with your super hot STALKER, and you got MARRIED, and he wants to CHEAT, but he doesn't want YOU cheating, and you want a DAUGHTER, and she's THE BEST, but she HATES your husband, and she wants you to KILL him and his sidepiece, and so you DO that, but then he HAUNTS you, and then you MISS him, and then you go to PARIS, and you meet MORE gays there, and their leader is HOT, and you FALL FOR HIM TOO, but then your husband comes BACK, and EVERYONE wants your daughter DEAD, and they KILL her, and you completely LOSE it, and you burn EVERYONE, and you get a DIVORCE, and you marry YOUR EX HUSBAND'S EX, and then in the 70s you decide to have someone INTERVIEW you, but you lose it AGAIN, and it all goes to SHIT, and then everything is a BLUR, and then it's 2020, and there's COVID, and you decide you want to be interviewed AGAIN, and you discover your current husband BRAINWASHED YOU, so you get ANOTHER divorce, and you're now TWICE divorced before you're even 150, and you run back to your first ex, but then that fuckass reporter PUBLISHES your interview as a BOOK, and your ex is MAD, and you want him BACK, but he decides to become a ROCKSTAR, THEN WHAT
Lestat Claudia Armand Daniel Santiago

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tshirt that says “i survived the two year wait for the vampire lestat”
Can we talk about Shane Hollander’s inherent kindness for a sec. Him introducing himself to Ilya trying to make him feel comfortable. Constantly asking him questions about himself and wanting to soothe his pain. Making space for Ilya in his home. Displaying his love for him openly in front of his parents. He’s so endlessly empathetic and I just love him ok