TBK Fandoms

Couldn’t find any like you described, but this one has them teaming up:

Triumph in Dust - teabeakay @tbkdoesfandom

1k. (Teen).

In this reality, it ends with Shiro on his feet.

- from Words of Radiance by Brandon Sanderson

see… i don’t like the way this is worded, and i’m gonna first of all address how this is phrased. because ‘would you like Lotor more if he broke his abuse cycle’ carries a certain implication: namely, that my issue with Lotor is that he’s ‘doing recovery wrong’, or that i’m gatekeeping abuse survivors and reserving sympathy only for those who have ‘broken the cycle of abuse’, or reached a certain arbitrary point in their recovery where i deem them ‘worthy’ of my sympathy. and that’s really not what i’m about. this is not about me and my feelings towards abuse survivors in real life, because IRL i can be sympathetic and understanding to anyone with a history of trauma and abuse, regardless of how far along they are in their recovery or how much that trauma might affect their current actions. i can be sympathetic even whilst i’m gently-but-firmly challenging them on harmful and unhealthy behaviours.

this is not about real life abuse survivors ‘breaking the cycle of abuse’ or my capacity to feel empathy for real people dealing with traumatic childhood experiences. maybe that’s not what you mean by the question, anon (i suspect it’s not because the second half of your ask talks about the writers, which i’ll get to below). but i’ve seen this attitude bandied about the fandom that if you don’t like Lotor you’re somehow a big evil meanie or whatever, and i’m gonna just confront that here and now. this isn’t about empathy or compassion for survivors or any other hotbutton issues that fandom wants to hang on this. it’s about bad writing, plain and simple.

the reason i object so much to this phrasing of the question is that Lotor is not a real person. whether or not he ‘breaks the cycle of abuse’ has nothing to do with Lotor, an individual person making choices - because he isn’t a real person getting to choose how he deals with a traumatic past. he’s just a made-up character in a show. the reason why Lotor didn’t break out of that abuse cycle is because the showrunners wrote him that way. that’s literally the only reason. there is no moral judgement on his character or personality. my dislike for Lotor isn’t me turning my nose up at someone for being ‘too weak’ to recover from their trauma - i just don’t fucking like how the whole issue was handled and i don’t like how his character was written on the show. and i think it’s really really important to keep sight of that distinction.

which brings me to the second part of your ask:

I’m not trying to justify anything he does later on, I’m just talking about what he does before being exiled and at least in that given moment, he had good intentions, I’d say redeemable even. Do you think if v slur had better writers and eps who don’t lack self-awareness, Lotor wouldn’t have gone through “the abused becomes the abuser” trope and would not get a unnecessary romantic plot device but an arc where he gets to break the cycle?

here is my entire issue with Lotor and his whole storyline: Lotor did not get the angsty abused-as-a-child backstory because the showrunners genuinely care about abuse survivors and want to represent us in the best way possible and give us powerful and meaningful stories about trauma and recovery and hope for better futures. he got the abuse backstory because LM and JDS think it’s ‘edgy’, and a quick-and-dirty way to make the character seem ‘morally grey’ and ambiguous. that’s the reason.

this kind of behaviour is part of a pattern that happens in both fandoms and canon works: sexy male villain with a British accent gets angsty child abuse backstory as a way to generate sympathy for the character, excuse their horrendous behaviour, or make them appear complex and nuanced. this is a pattern that takes the narrative of abuse and survivorship out of the hands of actual abuse survivors, and remoulds it into a cheap backstory mod that can be tacked onto thirst-bait antagonists without thought or consideration for the message it sends. we, the actual survivors, do not get to control the narrative around what a survivor looks like, and what recovery looks like, and how people respond to trauma and overcome it. that power is taken away from us, because people look at our life stories and all they see is “free angsty back story real estate”.

fandom started doing this with Lotor as early as S3, when highly questionable metas offered up Lotor’s ‘hypervigilance’ and his tendency to sit with his back to the wall as ‘proof’ that he was clearly an abusive survivor and therefore nothing he did was actually that bad and we couldn’t hate him. and let me tell you, as an actual real life abuse survivor who had to live through the entire abused-as-a-child backstory, for real, in real time, for my entire childhood and adolescence… lemme tell you, that time after S3 was a trip. the more the show went on the more fandom embraced Lotor as a troubled survivor just desperately trying to do the right thing, so that when the Colony reveal happened people began slandering Romelle and acting like none of this could be real etc. the Lotor sympathy died down for a bit after S6, but now the show is over and i’m seeing a resurgence of “Lotor did nothing wrong, ever, he just wanted to be loved!” and i’m like “….remember when he killed Narti haha fun times” and no, i still don’t like him and i still don’t want him as my rep, thanks.

a huge part of the issue with Lotor is - as you suggest - inconsistent writing. specifically i think the issue is that two conflicting versions of Lotor co-exist in canon, as if one half of the writing room wanted to write him as “charismatic evil schemer with his own agendas whomst you cannot trust but is cool and interesting to watch” and the other half insisted on writing him as “sad abused baby Doing His Best™ whomst everyone should feel sympathy for and forgive because he’s morally grey uwu”. Lotor’s characterisation swings wildly between these two incompatible takes, and the end result is both offensive and narratively messy. the year is 2019 and we really need to stop conflating abuse survivors with psychopaths, thanks very much.

to me, Lotor is not a good pick for abuse survivor representation, because he falls into that same pattern i described earlier: violent charismatic asshole who lies and schemes and manipulates… but wait! he’s actually the victim! feel sorry for him! even though he’s literally also a murderer… excuse the murder! he did it cos he’s big sad! and like… yes, trauma recovery is messy and many of us are deeply maladjusted, but… “yelling at your friends or leaving them on read for six weeks because you don’t know how to trust people and get close to them” is not morally or ethically equivalent to murder. there’s “be patient and empathetic with abuse survivors because we learn a lot of unhealthy behaviours from our abusers and often need help unlearning them” and then there’s “murder doesn’t count his parents were mean to him” and those two stances are not remotely equivalent or comparable. people excusing Lotor’s violence and manipulation and general awfulness are not expressing their deep and abiding support of abuse survivors, they’re just making excuses for a hot twink because he has a British accent and that’s a -12 to common sense checks.

“but abuse survivors relate to him!” YES BECAUSE WE NEVER GET ANYONE ELSE, BRENDA. because this is a pattern, and it plays out time-and-time again, in multiple fandoms and canon works. and abusers are very good at making their victims feel like it’s all our fault and we deserve mistreatment and we don’t deserve love or friends, and we’re bad people who have brought the abuse upon ourselves. and then you step into a fandom and the only character with a widely-accepted abuse backstory is… the villain. when you already feel like the villain because of childhood trauma, of course it’s easy to latch onto the only person in the narrative who seems to be the same as you. but the year is 2019 and it’s about fucking time we addressed just how fucked up and toxic and harmful it is to survivors to constantly reserve the abused-as-a-child backstory solely for antagonists and/or assholes, and to constantly equate trauma recovery with villain redemption arcs. it’s not the same thing. abuse survivors don’t need a redemption arc so we can ‘earn’ love and sympathy and care. the fact that we sometimes push people away or don’t open our mail for 3 months does not place us on the same moral low ground as a guy who used his people as quintessence batteries. can we all collectively stop acting like these are remotely the same situation.

Lotor is terrible representation for abuse survivors. and that is a hill i will fucking die on. what message does his story send to actual IRL survivors trying to find our way in the world? nothing good. nothing hopeful. the message of Lotor’s story is “abuse inevitably turns people into violent sociopaths who kill their friends and have no regard for the sanctity of life”. it’s “the best you can hope for is a grey morality and no friends you can really trust”. it’s “you can live for ten thousand years and you’ll still never escape the damage of your trauma, recovery is impossible, you will remain forever trapped in a cycle of bad behaviour because even if you lived for literal millennia there’s no hope of ever changing your unhealthy coping mechanisms”. everything about that is awful. it’s also not true, which is partly why i object to it so much. Lotor’s storyline is one that perpetuates some of the worst stigmas and stereotypes about abuse and survivorship: that we are all irreparably damaged by what we’ve been through, that we can never get better, that we will always be bad people who deserve to die alone, that abuse turns people into psychopaths, that the only thing preventing us from going on violent murder sprees is just circumstances because we’re all inherently violent and vengeful and fucked up beyond all hope for happiness and joy.

those messages were present in the narrative before S8. they were there before Lotor got melted to a chair. they were there even before the Colony reveal. when you present a character who’s 10,000 years old and tell the audience “yes he’s a manipulative dick but he was abused as a child so you know. that’s the reason” what you’re saying is that you think recovery from abuse is impossible. this guy had ten thousand years to fix up and get his life back on track, and he was apparently unable to do so. he’s still stuck in behaviours that people insist are “survival tactics” even though thousands of years have passed. in all that time he somehow never managed to escape his circumstances and live a healthy and happy life? that’s fucking bleak, man. that’s not representation. that’s just reinforcing the worst fears of abuse survivors. and the fact that it’s done for cheap melodrama is really fucking offensive.

it is possible to write stories about abuse survivors who are antagonists or do villainous things but turn it around and find recovery and redemption. AtLA did it with Zuko. She Ra is currently doing it with both Catra and Adora. i’m able to watch both those stories as a survivor and not feel hurt or offended by the messages. but it’s because they are approached with nuance and care, by writers who care about survivors and want to tell those stories with love and sympathy. VLD managed none of those things. VLD’s showrunners viewed “abused as a child” as a cheap way to be edgy or try to make out that Lotor is morally grey and interesting and a nuanced character with depth. instead they just ended up with a hot mess of offensive implications.

could the show pull off a good abuse survivor arc for Lotor? it would require a complete shift in how the character is portrayed and framed. too much of Lotor’s early characterisation seems designed to get the audience to mistrust him and suspect him of deeper, mysterious motives. take, for example, the scene where he goes to see Zarkon and Honerva in the throne room, and as he turns away the audience is privy to his knowing smirk whilst his parents remain oblivious to it. that scene lets the audience see a side of Lotor the other characters aren’t seeing, and it’s a moment just between Lotor and the viewer. it’s used to tell us that Lotor isn’t as upset as he pretended to be; that he feels confident and in control of the situation, despite earlier appearances. if we are to feel sympathy for Lotor as a survivor, moments like that should be used to showcase Lotor’s vulnerability and inner conflict - to show the audience a side of Lotor he never lets anyone else see. we should see Lotor appear composed and coolly unconcerned when talking to his parents - and when he turns away, we should see him looking pained and conflicted, and deeply hurt by his parents’ rejection. there are plenty of opportunities to change the narrative around Lotor and frame him in a more complex and sympathetic light, but the story missed them. i suspect that happened because of conflicts in the writers room about how Lotor should be portrayed - but whatever the reason, the end result is that Lotor comes across as manipulative and cruel, and most of the “inner conflict” over how he “feels so bad” comes from fandom projection.

shiro’s character kept stuttering and thirsting after keith’s character, and keith’s character kept bodily throwing himself all over shiro’s character as a human shield every 5 seconds to protect him from perceived threats, and they were getting Gross without even noticing so coran banned their characters from interacting 2/4

everyone kept rolling ones on all the important checks – shiro failed to identify the fake keith messages and failed to roll initiative against zethrid, allura failed her check to resist the dark entity, pidge failed to evade coran’s NPC version of Colleen Holt and got grounded, the whole team failed a safety throw at the end to save allura so her character DIED ¾

Next up in my Stormlight Archive inspired tarot card series is the Stormfather as the World! Really liked working on this one!

Kaladin | Shallan | Adolin | Dalinar | Szeth | Lift | Renarin | Venli | Eshonai Navani | Shalash 

Shalash for my Stormlight Archive inspired tarot card series! Shalash was one of the ones I wasn’t really looking forward to because I had no ideas, but suddenly I had so much inspiration and I loved working on it! 

Kaladin | Shallan | Adolin | Dalinar | Szeth | Jasnah | Lift | Renarin | Venli | Eshonai | Navani  

Just thinking Laurence would be a controversial figure in British history. But there’s a statue of George Washington in Trafalgar Square. (He stands on imported American soil.)

I feel dragons would very much be for it. But it would not happen till long after his death.

But imagine a statue of Laurance with a baby Temeraire standing in a pavilion in London. The dragons who knew him campaigning parliament for him to be remembered, led by Temeraire.

but I see I’m assuming something, I don’t know what was on the show bible, there’re several versions about how it went down “shiro was supposed to die at the beginning of s1” “it was on s2” “it was while fighting keef on s6” I clearly don’t know which one is true and which one isn’t. my main point was had shiro died it’d triggered a series of events we didn’t see, instead he disappeared and turned into a clone which triggered THIS series of events, THIS released version. (2/6)

he’s an important piece in the puzzle, a key for the story, and the story either goes on or goes back the moment you decide to do something with that piece, whether you take it or leave it. I try to inquire with my ask “what if they had take away that piece? In what way it could have affected the story?”. (3/6)

hey anon. welcome back. it’s okay - you don’t need to apologise. when i got your first ask i didn’t know what the tone of it was and the thought of Shiro dying always makes me upset. i wasn’t mad at you and there’s no harm done. thank you for coming back to clarify.

i understand what you’re asking - what would happen if Shiro was taken out of the story at the end of S2? assuming there was an outline in place for a well-thought-out plot progression without Shiro after S2. and i’m not convinced that version of the show bible exists. i don’t think there was a bible in which Shiro was successfully removed from the plot for an entire season or even permanently. because like you say - he’s a key for the story. he’s absolutely central to it. you can tell that just by watching the first two seasons back, and seeing how much of the narrative centres around Shiro and his struggles and his arc with the Black Lion. how would you remove that character from the narrative for an entire third of the story? why would you want to? so no - i’m not convinced there ever was a version of the show bible and/or outline in which Shiro departed for such a long time. 

Going back to my outline comment, I asked you about making another outline since I’m aware netflix productions deadlines are a bit hectic (I mean they released 3 full seasons in a year, binge culture is wild) so Idk how much time it’d have take them to rewrite everything, they were in mid-production. but you have a point, they work In an industry, they must continue with the tools they’re given, they could have edited the bible or find another way to keep shiro than unnecessary subplots. (4/6)

this is my point, yes. VLD isn’t someone’s amateur-hour fanfic - the people who write and produce it are paid to do so. that means they have to be able to work within these constraints when they’re thrown at them.

regarding my comments about “it wouldn’t have resulted in problematic messages” I guess my reasoning behind it was that “shiro dies–> they keep the show bible–> no bad plotting–> no bad messages” since all the bad decisions in writing vld plot/arcs resulted in those messages but considering your pov, I see it was dumb of me to think killing a multiple minority character wouldn’t have resulted in more bad writing and therefore worse messages. (5/6)

not dumb, necessarily, but there’s a flaw in the logic here. and it’s this: “no bad plotting —> no bad messages”. that assumption is incorrect. you can have the most beautifully plotted, tightly planned, meticulously outlined, perfect makes-sense plot… and still have horrible toxic messages. you need to view those two issues separately. bad messages can exist in any story, no matter how good or bad the other elements are.

VLD happened to take a swerve into both shitty storytelling and terrible messages at the same time, which makes it seem like they’re connected - but they’re not. firstly - as you say - killing off a multiple-minority character is a bad message in the first place, so it’s not like Shiro’s premature death would have saved the show from being offensive and upsetting. secondly: given how deeply the show delved into some disturbing messages about racial supremacy by the end, i suspect that even with the absolute best plotting in the world, the show would still have delivered on some horrible toxic messages and ideas. 

basically if Shiro had died at the end of S2 all that would have done would be to confirm much earlier on that these showrunners were prepared to kill off a multiple-minority character without thinking about how offensive that might be.

my ask was out of speculation and frustration, we know we could have a better story in the face of how much potential vld had, but we didn’t and I tried to question the “what ifs” but now I see I was wrong considering this if, thank you for educating me, I’ve learned a lot about minority rep (mainly disabled and mentally ill people) reading your posts and hope to continue to. (6/6) 

i’m glad you’ve learned something and that my posts were helpful! it’s fine to think about what-ifs - i think that’s healthy, actually. we’re all frustrated by how VLD turned out and wondering if it could have been better. but i think it’s wrong to suggest that Shiro’s continued presence in the narrative was the reason it all went wrong. that is the excuse that LM and JDS (the showrunners) gave for all the show’s issues, and it’s insidious and disturbing to see the showrunners blame their own character for somehow ‘ruining the story’. especially a multiple minority character like Shiro. the fact is that the showrunners are responsible for delivering a good story, and they failed to do that. that’s on them. not Shiro, and not some nameless DW exec who “demanded” Shiro’s early return. 

Sixth of the Dusk

it’s reduction to a stereotype, and it’s not even a very interesting one, at that. from younger fanfic writers, I’m willing to forgive it, somewhat. from JDS (or any writers over 25), I give no leeway. If you’ve been on this planet that long and you’re still unaware of the immense range of human experience, you got some work to do before you can lay claim to writing a good character. 

take a fratboy jock, say, like my cousin. quarterback that helped take his high school team to States, got into college on a football scholarship. majored in chemical engineering. went on to get his doctorate in it. he always sat at the front of class so his little recording device could pick up the lecture clearly, and he’d then listen to the tapes while he worked out. he’s a nerd who just happens to be over six-feet-three and built like, well, a football player. now he runs marathons while listening to podcasts about chemistry.

(I grew up watching GA Tech football games. for the longest time, I assumed it was true everywhere that showing your name, picture, and position on the screen during a game would necessarily include your major and your GPA.)  

or I could tell you about the military grunts I’ve known. the one who learned to knit because it gave him something to do on long flights to his next assignment. the one who was a champion clogger. the one with a degree in botany who used the GI Bill to get that degree, and was his squadron’s houseplant whisperer. or the one who’ll launch into detailed discussions of the internal architecture of ships at the drop of a hat, not because it was his job but because he’s a geek and that became his geeky thing.   

you can start a character as a stereotype, just as you can start them as a trope. at some point, you gotta get out from behind that and figure out who the character is, as an individual. you gotta see beyond just that one label. 

I’ve lived the nightmare. I escaped from an abusive situation, and this show helped me find the courage to stay out of it. Shiro gave me courage. Allura helped me cope. The found family helped me remember that I wasn’t alone, that I had friends and family and support around me. And then everything fell apart. It all came crumbling down. Everything went so wrong. Just… I don’t know. I guess I’m just feeling more vulnerable than usual today for some reason. Sorry for venting.

What DreamWorks - or maybe the EPs - didn’t realize is that stories aren’t just fiction accounts, especially those created for the sole purpose to educate and/or inspire. 

For viewers thinking Voltron wasn’t a show that was supposed to be inspiring or uplifting, here’s an excerpt from the DreamWorks’ website about their culture. 

At the heart of DreamWorks Animation is the desire to tell great stories that inspire audiences to dream and laugh together, pushing the boundaries of both creativity and technology. 

No one was laughing or smiling at the end of Voltron. And no one was inspired, least of all abuse victims, women, PoC, the queer community, and disabled persons. 

And to clarify -”pushing the boundaries of creativity” does not mean showing a WoC dying, an abuse victim not surviving, and a queer, disabled, Japanese POW with PTSD sidelined and discarded from his found family. 

Stories are powerful vehicles of change, of comfort, of empowerment. I frequently refer to this article, “Kids want to see more female superheroes in films and TV”  because it’s so succinct. 

BBC America president Sarah Barnett says it’s really important for girls to see females represented, because “if you can’t see her, you can’t be her.”

The flip side to that is - what do children see on TV? When they see Allura accepting that she can’t lead and then ultimately dying, when they see Shiro accepting that he can’t be the head of the Voltron and instead, should accept a role away from the fight, when they see Lotor dead and forgiving his abusers - children learn that’s what they should do. They believe that’s the message they need to learn - not to fight, not to cope, not to survive.  

In a world where there are far too many people lost to us, we need stories that inspire. We need hope because if we can see the characters we identify with succeed - then, we, too, can find the courage to fight, to survive, to be happy. 

You deserve that, and children in similar situations deserve to see that as well. 

It’s only through years of long practice that Dyta’s able to keep a straight face. The King’s name is Miles? Everyone just sort of assumed he was named after his great grandfather, King Raymus since that’s what he’s written all over the kingdom. She tries to remember if she’s ever heard of a Prince Miles–

“Well?” King Raymus (Miles) asks. He looks down his nose at Dyta, thin lips thinning further. His knuckles are white around his gaudy scepter. “What did the Wind say? Will my reign be remembered? Am I truly the greatest King across the six kingdoms?”

There’re actually 208 kingdoms, the wind hisses out from underneath the door. Which Miles would know if he weren’t a little bitch.

“Yes,” Dyta blurts out. The guards’ glares have been growing each moment she’s been silent and she’s not interested in finding out at what point they use the spears they’re holding. “Super remembered.” She brings her hands up, trying to gesture just how remembered the King is, but the shackles around her wrists hinder the movement. “The wind knows your truth, King Raymus, and it spreads that truth across the globe.”

You never interpret correctly, the wind whines through the gaps in the stone walls. You are the worst wind-speaker I’ve met in centuries.

Dyta’s the only wind-speaker in centuries. That’s why she’s in this whole prisoner mess to begin with. It’s just luck that King Mi-Raymus is vain enough to spend the majority of her captivity asking after what the world thinks of him.

 There are much worse applications of her ability. Spying, for example. And assassination, though she tends to stay away from that one, much to the wind’s chagrin.