Foreigners tend to assume that the big cultural confusions between Australians and most other countries are gonna be based on our food, or social services, or weather, or weird animals. But itâs never that. In my experience, the real cultural confusions re: Australians are about The Respect Thing almost one hundred per cent of the time.
? I realize im proving your point but what
The broader Australian culture doesnât, as a whole, have status-based respect. Some individual groups might, because theyâve brought it from other cultures theyâre involved in, but the general culture doesnât. Thereâs no sense that your boss or scout leader or the guy in charge of your country deserves more respect than you, or that you should behave differently to them than you would to any random person you know similarly well. (The very rare exceptions include ritualised settings, such as courtrooms, and for some reason the fact that children use âMiss/Ms/Mrâ honourifics for teachers at school.)Â
I donât mean Australians are a âstick it to the man, fight back against those in powerâ kind of people â weâre generally not. And I donât mean we have a âweâre going to do the status thing but pretend we donât and pretend to all be equal in mixed companyâ thing that middle-class Americans do. I mean the status-respect system does not exist, and if you try to use it, it weirds people the fuck out at best, and insults them at worst. Treating someone most countries would say is âaboveâ you differently in Australia is basically telling that person that you hate them; itâs saying âIâm forced to interact with you due to our current circumstances but I donât see you as a person and wonât grant you the basic respect of treating you like an equalâ. (When I was in America, I was constantly suppressing the instinct that random service people were sassing me because they overuse honourifics and were so keen to help me.)
This makes interacting with foreigners really baffling in a lot of circumstances. In university, my international friends would often describe Australians as âfriendly, but very rudeâ. They thought we were all arseholes because of the way we spoke to our PhD supervisors and soforth, and wouldnât believe us when we explained that our behaviour was respectful and that being deferential would be weird and awkward and insulting to them. Learning Japanese had a similar problem; everyone in the class could get the concept of different levels of formality and deference in language, ans was happy to memorise the usage of various words for Japanese people, but using them on each other was super weird, and weâd only ever use the most casual form of anything unless specifically instructed otherwise by the teacher.
The reason Iâve been thinking of this lately is because Iâve recently become aware that a lot of countries have like⌠a special respect for their countryâs leaders? I donât just mean âyeah, that guy makes the rulesâ, but that having that office makes them better than everyone else, somehow. Which I expect from countries with royal families, because Tradition, but Iâve recently found that Americans feel this way about their President, too. (Except the current one, who seems to be enough of a dick to break the system.) Like, if six Americans were in an aeroplane that was going down and there was only one parachute and one of the Americans was A Generic Non-Trump President, itâs just assumed that that guy gets the parachute? Like heâs automatically the life worth saving over the others, and theyâd just give up their chance in favour of him? And thatâs so weird to me. An Australian prime minister would have a 1 in 6 chance at the parachute; however the people decided, âthis guy happens to be the leader of the countryâ wouldnât be a factor.Â
When Americans donât like a President, they usually feel the need to work in how heâs ânot my presidentâ, either through sheer denial, or by finding some way heâs theoretically illegitimate (different ways votes are counted, wild conspiracy theories about birth country, etc.), and while making sure those rules are obeyed IS extremely important, Iâve recently noticed that part of the motivation seems to be that theyâre invested in whether heâs Really The President because being the President somehow makes someone Special rather than just a normal dick whoâs been put in charge of the group project. (You see the same thing in âTHIS IS TRUMPâS AMERICA!â, like him becoming President gives him superpowers or something).
This is getting off-topic. Point is, in Australia you can run into the Prime Minister and ask him to help you fix your phone and if heâs not busy but refused to help you out heâd be kind of a dick; of course he should help you out. And if I walk into your restaurant and you act like Iâm a movie star and youâre going to be super attentive to my every need because Iâm The Customer, Iâm gonna get creeped out. Weâre suspicious and insulted by what most people in the world consider to be basic manners, and vice versa. And it makes interacting with foreigners super weird because I always feel like theyâve got some invisible heirarchical flowchart in the back of their minds that I donât.
I have long noticed that Americans have absolutely the same cultural attitude to the President as they would to a serving monarchy. They just think they donât on a technicality.
Can confirm that if I call someone âSir/Madamâ I generally mean âassholeâ (unless talking to an animal or tiny child) and that if I get called Maâam I feel like Iâm being called the asshole, which made time in Atlanta, Georgia suoer weird.
Australians have a very good attitude to respect
âŚso this explains why I have spent the last fourteen years low-grade pissed off at nearly every Australian I meet, because every time I try to be American Polite at them it pisses them off. And, for that matter, why my second boss here, the one I was so careful to be Formally Respectful of and always called âsir,â took such an intense dislike to me.
Yeah, even if that boss understood that you were American and what that meant, their instincts wouldâve been screaming at them the whole time that you were being a dick. Itâs a difficult thing for us to get used to even when we know the culture is differentâ.
As a Brit visiting Australia, the most vivid experience I had of this is: in the UK itâs really uncool to get into the passenger seat of a cab - youâre expected to get in the back. In Australia the reverse was apparently true.
⌠I am only just now realising that inAmerican and British movies and stuff, people donât get in the passenger seat of a taxi.
covid update: youâre now meant to get in the back seat for social distancing and IT FEELS SO RUDE. sorry taxi person I AM NOT TRYING TO SHUN YOu just I know there are rules and weâre protecting each other. letâs be intensely awkward for a while.
Reblogging this because I just remembered the time Molly Meldrum absolutely horrified Prince Charles by describing meeting the Queen as âI saw your mum last weekâ.
One of my favorite travel books described humanity as, broadly speaking, having two types of culture: one where formal is respectful and informal is rude, and vice versa. Australian culture sees formality as hostile or unfriendly and familiarity as warmth. Itâs decidedly not the case in USA as a whole, though as with any broad category the dichotomy changes as the group gets smaller.
YOU PUT THE THING INTO WORDS!
Different cultures are fascinating.
Look thereâs honestly a lot of history that build our culture today to be like this. We never really had a true aristocracy or class system in Australia and was still considered the dirty colonies up until federation in 1901. Even when we had the gold rush in the 19th century there were rich people but also anyone could dig up a nugget and get rich so no one really bothered with the rich = better than you thing because old johnno down the road who normally is on the piss all day and lives in a swag just picked up a 2lb piece of gold thatâs worth thousands of dollars so now he can go buy his own pub and sell his own beer but everyone will still think of him as that guy who was always cracking bad jokes at the end of the bar and drinking a minimum of 8 beers a day. Sure we have rich people but we also pull them back down to earth when they get hoity toity. Australia is one of the most unionised countries in the world and yeah its true we dont get upset by much but when we do, all hell breaks loose. Look up some of Australiaâs biggest protests and union movements like the convict rebellions, Eureka stockade, the campaign for the 8 hour day, and he general history of our Australian Labor Party. Australia was the second country in the world to grant womenâs suffrage. So many unions and strikes and demands we made in Australia demanding equal and fair rights to working class in the 19th century that by federation in 1901 we were ahead of the world with workers rights and equality. Really the only class system we had was the employer employee divide but we still never bowed down and took it from them just because they boss. Iâm not going to go into what happened in the 20th century but if youâre interested definitely look up post war Australia, the womenâs working unions in the middle of the century, definitely look up the late Bob Hawke and his legacy, the nurseâs strike in Victoria in the 80s, the land rights movement and Eddie Mabo, and go from there.
I remember in school we were always taught to treat others how you wanted to be treated. You were no better or worse than anyone else. You want to be treated equal to everyone else and that meant being polite and showing decency and helping each other out. Itâs true we only use titles for teachers or elders (indigenous Australians use âAuntyâ and âUncleâ as a show of respect to their elders) but outside of that if someone calls you Miss y/n or sir or whatever itâs just uncomfortable. In hospitality and retail some of us will still use sir/ma'am mainly because we donât know customers names but even then thatâs rare and usually applied only to elderly. We personally donât want to be addressed by titles or even surnames (unless itâs a nickname which Iâll get to) so we donât use the titles or surnames for other people. With surnames often we use them as a nickname if we dont/canât shorten their names. Getting a nickname (a good one, not one that is intentionally meant to bully you ofc. E.g. ScoMo is the nickname for our PM but heâs a piece of shit and ScoMo sounds a lot like Scum-mo) is the biggest show of respect in Australia. Usually itâs simply just adding a vowel or changing it up a little. I.e. John = johnno, Darren = Dazza, etc. If we canât do it to your first name we do it to your last name. If we canât do it to your last name itâs either a feature or behaviour and we put it in a good light. You ever notice that Australians like to make fun of each other and âinsultâ each other? Thereâs a very subtle difference when itâs truly meant to be insulting but thatâs our way of being affectionate for each other. We will point out your flaws and make fun of you (and stop if you say no) and we will give you a nickname and itâs all in good humour. Itâs one of the things I find foreigners get really upset about because they dont understand why we are so rude to each other. You build up a hard skin in this country and forget hat sometimes that stuff IS a bit insulting.
Itâs a very backwards system of respect but it is a very honest one. No one is better than you. No one is worse than you. We are all humans.
We treat our acquaintances like friends and our friends like family. Teasing your friends is expected the same way it is for siblings. If you act like someone is above you, in a not-joking way, thatâs basically declaring that you donât see them as potential friend materialâthat something about them repels you and you want as many barriers between you as possible.
It would hurt my dad so badly if I ever called him âsir.â
Yep, and the automatic assumption that you think Iâm an idiot/bitch if Iâm called ma'am. The only time it has ever happened and I havenât taken offence has been brand new army recruits/cadets, who are required to use it while in public to show deference to civilians.
I legit take less offense from being referred to as a pigdog cunt than I do being called ma'am. Getting a sweary character reference or having a friend call you a mad cbomb is totally fine in Aus. Ma'am is not something I associate with respect, being included as part of the group, or acceptance in any way - itâs pointing out rather emphatically that you are âotherâ
This is interesting as hell as an American raised in an Active Duty environment. As a kid I called everyone Maâam or Sir and I wonder how jarring that child would be in Australia
Whenever I watch an American show and a kid calls their parents âsirâ and/or âma'amâ I immediately assume that the intention is to clue the audience in on the fact that that child is being very severely abused. Addressing an elderly neighbour or something like that would be seen as charmingly respectful from a kid, but doing it to all adults would set off alarm bells in the heads of any Australian adult who wasnât familiar with your past. Theyâd get it once they learned you were raised around American soldiers though, and expect you to grow out of it.
I hate to be the fly in the ointment, but while Australians are generally less formal and stratified than other places, there is a MASSIVE hierarchical attitude just lying under the surface of most Australian culture. Look at almost any corporate workplace and see how shitty management get if someone in an entry level job or thereabouts becomes friends with a person in a higher powered job. My whole career in Australia was spent dealing with bosses who thought I was getting âabove myselfâ by being friends with other management in the organisation, or councillors etc. The number irritated of âWhy were you chatting with *high ranking role person at lunch time?â I had to field over the years. Well because theyâre a person and I like talking to them. One boss got irate that a recently retired executive manager called by my desk while he was in visiting for a catch up chat. The same person called me one day asking for info/a connection and the same boss got shitty at that too. Yeah you can say hello to the Prime Minister and ask him to hold your beer while you tie your shoelace, he might not mind but thereâll be some bitch nearby who will be FUMING that you got above your station.























