#temperaments

xoxo, 🌀anon (ps, thought id share, im an sp4, ennagram wise, if ur into dat)

HOLY SHIT I’M AN SP4 TOO?? Specifically SP4, SO6, and SO1 as my tritype. INFJ too so I’m VERY happy to be doing this. I love this prompt too much to use it on JUST Ronin so I may do the others sorry my bad I’m just too passionate.

Killer Chat LIs x TypologyNerd!Reader

1. Basic introduction with minimal math and shoddy illustration:

2. Full proof with all the math and magically better illustration (I gave up and traced it):

MBTI - INFP

Jungian- IF(N)

enneagram- 4w5

Tritype -458

Enneagram subtype - Sx/so4

Socionics- EII

Psychosophy - ELVF (3123)

Big 5- RLUxI

Temperament- Mel-Chol

The reasonings behind the temperaments of the planets

My boyfriend had an epiphany about Venus's temperament and he gave me permission to write about it as he doesn't intend to. He's not an astrologer, he learns a lot of astrology from me and as a Venusian he was baffled to know that some astrologers understood Venus as a sanguine planet. This is at least what Ptolemy says and he is just the most influential astrologer in history. This got personal when we did his own temperament calculations and learned that he can be either phlegmatic or sanguine depending on what you consider Venus to be (he's clearly very phlegmatic). As a Libra, the ambiguity was torturous. My boyfriend is convinced that Venus is phlegmatic and not even Ptolemy's authority will convince him otherwise. I don't know if traditional astrologers think about this or are aware of what I'm about to explain, but I myself have never seen any astrologer talking about that and pointing out the pattern he saw, so I think it's worth sharing.

He was just learning about the temperaments of the planets and he was questioning why Jupiter, for example, has domicile in Sagittarius and Pisces, which are choleric and phlegmatic respectively, if Jupiter is a sanguine planet? And why does Mars have a domicile that corresponds to his choleric temperament and then another in a phlegmatic sign? It didn't make sense to him, since the Hellenistics seem to love symmetry very much. The sudden lack of symmetry was unacceptable. To him, everything had to have a pattern and logic, and I think he found them and was able to make a very good defense of the phlegmatic Venus, and I made some developments to it.

The Thema Mundi

For credibility in hellenistic astrology you have to justify things using the Thema Mundi, so if you're not familiar with what that is, this other post by @saturniandevil will help. When we study the Thema Mundi, we say we put the Sun in Leo first, because that's the height of the mythic summer, the Moon stays behind it in Cancer, because things have to start with the luminaries and the Moon is best represented in its phlegmatic phase when it's waning, when it's behind the Sun. The Sun has to see the other planets on its right, while the Moon sees them on its left, of course. And then the planets are arranged in Chaldean order from fastest, Mercury, sitting next to the lights in his role of assisting power, to slowest, Saturn, opposing them.

If you notice you'll see that the Sun and the Moon have temperaments that correspond to their domicile signs. The Sun is hot and dry, as is Leo, the Moon is cold and humid, as is Cancer. Next comes Mercury, the dual planet that is either melancholic or sanguine depending on its phase, cold and dry when it's after the Sun, and hot and humid when it's before the Sun, as illustrated below. It has domicile in Virgo and Gemini, which are melancholic and sanguine. If it stopped here everything would be already perfect, the Sun, the Moon, Mercury number one and Mercury number two cover all 4 temperaments and make sense in their domiciles.

But things have to change when we get to the malefics and benefics, because they don't work in the same way, because they're not supposed to. They're also 4 planets and in their scheme we have to consider that malefics are malefics because they're considered to be extreme, and benefics are benefics because they're considered moderate; this is one of the few consensus in astrology. Mars is considered mostly too hot and it has one domicile with the same temperament, Aries. And Saturn, considered mostly too dry, has one domicile in Capricorn. Because they're extreme, naturally they should have domicile signs compatible with their natures and other ones that are of the complete opposite nature as theirs. Choleric (hot and dry) is the antithesis of phlegmatic (cold and humid), and melancholic (cold and dry) is the antithesis of sanguine (hot and humid). The fixed water sign is considered the main house of Mars traditionally, while the fixed air sign is considered the main house of Saturn, signs where their natures are alien. This highlights even more their extreme natures, they're either here or way over there.

But benefics are considered moderate, temperate, so it makes sense that their houses correspond to only one of their lords' primary qualities individually. They are always in the same quality of either temperature or humidity when in domicile, never both and never neither. Jupiter as a hot and humid planet has domicile in Sagittarius because that's a hot sign that isn't humid, and in Pisces because it's humid without being hot. They don't need to be in domicile in a place that is of the same nature as them, just one that has one of their primary qualities.

This scheme is also more interesting, because it makes the malefic and benefic of the same sect have opposing natures. Jupiter is hot and humid, contrasting the malefic cold and dry nature of Saturn. Venus is cold and humid, contrasting Mars' hotness and dryness. If Venus is considered sanguine the entire scheme collapses. This is why Venus is phlegmatic in our opinion.

The Ptolemaic view

But why does Ptolemy say Venus is sanguine? Or what do I think is his reason? As we all know, Ptolemy created the geocentric system that defined astrology for centuries and continues to be a reference. Here's what he says about Venus's nature:

Venus has the same powers and tempered nature as Jupiter, but acts in the opposite way; for she warms moderately because of her nearness to the sun, but chiefly humidifies, like the moon, because of the amount of her own light and because she appropriates the exhalations from the moist atmosphere surrounding the earth. (Ptolemy, Tetrabiblos Book I chapter 4)

He gave astronomical rationales for everything, including for the primary qualities of the planets, using his own cosmogony. He's giving his astronomical reasons based on his geocentric system he's created, he's not the one worried about symmetry in this. He gives the nature of the planets based on their distance from the Sun, or from the Earth or Saturn, or based on them being in between two specific other planets etc. And there's nothing wrong with that, of course. He implies he's taking from "the ancients" the idea that Jupiter and Venus are both sanguine (Tetrabiblos, Book I chapter 5), he's following his teachers, he's not building everything from the ground up, obviously, so Ptolemy himself might not have even noticed how a sanguine Venus is the only loose end breaking a pattern. I'm not all against breaking rules, but if we use the Thema Mundi as a reference for everything in Hellenistic astrology, and we use it to justify criticism of modern rulerships, with the argument that those who use them don't know the rules to be breaking them, then I think we could see sanguine Venus in the same light.

mbti: ENTP (INTP close 2nd)

enneagram: so739 (so/sp)

py: heavy on 2L-1, fairly certain about VLFE(4112)

socionics: LIE

big 5: sCu/E/[I]

I already typed Crushed Olive Branch charas but I wanna do it in OPS since I think Objective Personality is a better system than just typing using functions :P

As before characters belong to @calronhunt

Starting with Theron, I don't think I'd change his type from ISFJ, he's definitely overdoing certainty. He hates what he doesn't know, this can be shown in his unwavering faith to what his parents have told him. This could be seen as pro tribe (which he is, he's definitely pro tribe) but in this case it's more because he needs a sense of normalcy and his parents gave him that by telling him what to do.

Later on in the story he ends up leaning more to the tribe side, but this makes sense since it's his second most used function. This also means he uses blast, so he's not a jumper.

As for the functions themselves, Si>Ni in my opinion. He doesn't really care about looking under what he sees, he's very much a surface level thinker, he doesn't really look behind why Dom says what Dom says, taking everything as he says and rarely forming his own opinions from judging others actions.

As for fe or te, I could go either way but he's definitely more of a feeler in general. He's efficient but doesn't care to tell others about his efficiency, which points to fe/ti use more than te/fi use!

Final verdict, ISFJ ! Blast>Sleep>Consume>Play

Other typology stuff: Stuck between 9w1 or 6w5, though I think I'll go with 9w1 since he's more of a gut triad person. He's in tune with reality, and numbs his emotions to avoid pain (as shown when he decides to become FWB with Matthias instead of, you know, processing his feelings. He definitely has a strong 6 fix though

9w1

For his tritype, as stated before, strong 6 fix and proooobably a 4 fix? He definitely wants to be come someone different but a lot of that hast to do with internal homophobia and I've never been a fan of stereotyping LGBT charas as 4 but I think it fits Theron more than 3 or 2...3 would be my second best guess cuz he used to be VERY three like as a kid but that was due to his parents influence. Also Gut>Heart>Head

9w1>4w3>6w2

RLOAN

FEVL

Melancholic [Dominant]

Lawful Good, Lawful Moral in 5x5

ISFJ Charas According to PDB: Fluttershy (MLP) The Narrator (Fight Club) Willow Park (The Owl House)

Closest Character to His Typing According to PDB: Blue Diamond (Steven Universe)

Dom I typed as an ESFP before, and I'm kind of conflicted in OPS. He DEFINITELY isn't overdoing chaos, he cares way too much about the tribe for that, but I also don't really see him as using blast or play? If I had to pick one, I'd say blast, he's not energetic enough to be play imo.

He's definitely tribe>self, which might seem weird considering how selfish he is, but his selfishness comes from external validation, not internal validation. He cares how others see him, and he forces those ideals onto others as well.

Next is functions, he's definitely more of an Fe user, his ti is so fucking weak I'm sorry bro...he doesn't care about efficiency at ALL he cares about others values first and foremost

As for Si or Ni, I'm nore sure? I see more Se than Si so I'mma go with Ni cuz of that but tbh he could use either

Final Verdict: ENFJ! Blast>Consume>Play>Sleep

Other Typologies: DEFINITELY heart triad, either 2w3 or 3w2 though I think I'll go with 2w3...he wants to be loved more than he wants to be looked up to. Though he is very proud of his abilities and is quite vain, his pride and love-need trump both of those aspects

2w3

For tritype, heart>gut>head, I'm thinking 8 and 7-fixed, though I could also see a 9-fix but he's a bit too confrontational for that. He isn't one to hide his feelings through numbing, he's someone who ignores his problems with his hedonistic tendencies (usually sex) which fits 7 more than 9

287

SCOEN

VFEL

Choleric-Sanguine

True Neutral, Neutral Impure in 5x5

ENFJ charas according to PDB: Monika (DDLC) Iroh (Avatar) Rarity (MLP)

Closest Character to his Typing According to PDB: Scrap Baby (FNAF)

Matthias is definitely overdoing independence, he DEFINITELY isn't overdoing chaos/certaintiy and he's not pro-tribe either. He's also very much just. Fi dominant. I cannot think of a better function for him LoL

If I had to say, INFP would make the most sense since I don't see much Se usage

This is so short I feel like I should explain but I cannot. He is so INFP the only other possibility I could see is ISFP but INFP just makes way more sense imo.

Final Verdict: INFP, Consume>Sleep>Blast>Play

Other Typologies: HONESTLY. Not very sure ? I think he's a 6, he keeps a warm facade as to keep his own security, even when others walk all over him, though this could also be seen as him merging with others emotions and putting them before his own...but also if I type him as a 9 the correlationists will kill me so I'll stick with 6. Also, he's more head than gut LMAO

6w7

Head>Gut>Heart, 9-fix for gut and then 4 for heart? Not exactly sure, could see 2 as well, DEFINITELY not 3 though. Honestly, I'mma go with 2-fix since he has such a high love need and shows little envy

692

RLUAI or SLUAI

ELFV

Pheglmatic [Dominant]

Neutral Good, Social Good in 5x5

INFP Charas According to PDB: Shinji (NGE) Belle (Beauty and the Beast) Spider-Man/Peter Parker (Marvel Comics)

Closest Character to his Typology According to PDB: Annaka Haruna (Nichijou)

Nerissa is also overdoing certaintiy, but imo she's sleep>blast, meaning she's a jumper. Her need for certaintiy and lack of chaos isn't shown as much but she's the one who keeps the patrols most structured, so this is mainly a guess extrapalated from that.

Si or Ni would make sense, but I think lower Ne makes sense since she doesn't really care about taking in multiple ideas, she prefers to look at the environment as is to come to conclusions (showing more sensing than intuition) but tbh I could see Ni as well. She's very analytical, and thinks in very structured ways which fits Ni in OPS well...definitely more like than keep brainstorming and throwing out different ideas but ! IDK !!!

Also Fi/Te, cares more about her own emotions and external efficiency, she wants things on the outside to go well, and also cares more about her own emotions than others, which makes her come off as cold.

Final Verdict: Either ISTJ or INTJ ? Not really sure but I'll go with INTJ...Sleep>Blast>Consume>Play

Other Typologies: Definitely head triad, prolly a 5 but could see 6 as well!

5w6

Head>Gut>Heart, gut triad is probably a 1 and heart triad is prolly a 3

513

SCOAN

LVEF

Melancholic [Dominant[

Lawful Neutral, Lawful Moral in 5x5

INTJ Charas According to PDB: Sasuke Uchiha (Naruto) Wednesday (The Addams Family) Batman (DC Comics)

Chara Closest to Her Typology According to PDB: Stanford Pines/Grunkle Ford (Gravity Falls)

Other Charas I'm mainly vibe typing LoL:

Eva: ISFP, 9w8, 974, SCUAN, FELV, Phlegmatic [Dominant], True Neutral or Neutral Moral

Cicero: ENFJ, Skipping enneagram cuz IDK, SCUAI, EVLF, Phlegmatgic-Sanguine, Neutral Good

Roman: ESTP, 8w7, 837, SCUEN, VFEL, Choleric [Dominant], Chaotic Neutral or Rebel Moral

Skipping Luna cuz I'm unsure

Trevor: ENFP, 7w8, 792?, SCUAI, VEFL, Sanguine [Dominant], Chaotic Good or Rebel Moral

Skipping Kiera cuz I'm conflicted on his type as well....he's either ISTP 9w8 or ESTP 8w9 but. Not sure LoL

Emotion in the driver’s seat:

Anger = Choleric

Joy = Sanguine

Sorrow = Melancholic

Fear = Phlegmatic

This is a massive simplification, of course, but I think it tracks. Cholerics are very driven--anger is a catch-all term for the tendency to see a problem and rush to do something about it. Sanguines as joy is obvious. As is melancholics as sorrow--it’s basically right in the name, that tendency to hold feelings very deeply. Phlegmatics as fear takes a little more explaining; they’re laid-back, and tend to be okay with taking life as it is, but that can be because trying to change things on your own is scary, and it’s better not to take the chance of making things worse, and just leave things as they are.