#screen reader friendly

So, I would like to make a small assumption that this post was referencing some of my submissions on intersex animals. Specifically, the cardinal with Bilateral Gynandromorphism [link]. EDIT: Ty has contacted me to clarify that he didn't write that post about me or with my post(s) in mind, I will revise this post as soon as I can so that it's more accurate to what the context of his post is.

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“Two things can be true at once

-Perisex people not knowing that animals with intersex conditions are intersex (e.g. bilateral gynandromorphism) is a problem and should be addressed

- However the way to addressing that is not dunking aggressively on trans people's joy at seeing something like them* in the animal world.

Yes, by all means correct misinformation. But I keep seeing people be really mean-spirited and sometimes cruel.”

I would just like to ask, where in my post about the cardinal was “dunking aggressively” on trans people’s joy? As far as I can tell, from my post, all I said was “let intersex animals be intersex”. All that the anon that sent in that submission said was “guys intersex animals are real you know this right”, I fail to see where the aggressive dunking is, but I digress. I can agree, to a certain extent, that some vents about this issue can be quite expressive and maybe even “aggressive”, but by no means do I, nor the anon talking about the cardinal or Mmamoriri are trying to be cruel or mean to perisex trans people for finding joy in seeing animals similar to them in nature.

In fact, I would go as far to say that I explicitly said, in my Mmamoriri post, that it is okay and perfectly fine for trans people to find intersex animals to be relatable, the problem comes in when intersexuality is completely left out of and erased from the conversation. It's important for trans people to acknowledge the intersexuality of the animal they are celebrating because intersexuality is continuously erased from said conversations. But let me not get ahead of myself.

“A bird with intersex traits isn't technically trans or nonbinary, no (obviously because they have no concept of gender like humans and their condition is intersex). However, I can't think of any animals that don't have intersex conditions that also have something funky going on with gender (correct me if I'm wrong - but female hyenas dont really count and iirc gender changing fish have something else going on. The best we have are mythological creatures or mythologised real animals like the hare, who were once believed to switch genders. According to sources I have, this occurred monthy).”

I would just like to say (and, please correct if I'm wrong) but, intersex animals don't have “something funky going on with their gender”, as you said in this same paragraph, they have no concept of gender, at least in the same way humans do, so how could they have “funky genders” if they have no concept of gender?

Again, I'm of the opinion that trans people can find relatability to intersex animals, especially when looking at their social standings in the context of their environment (like Hyenas, there is reporting of female hyenas being quite dominant and even mounting other female hyenas and even males, so there is definitely something “funky” going on in that respect, I would and do understand relating to them for having social behaviors that go against the expected roles that humans put on them), but it isn't quite accurate to say that they are exhibit social behavior due to any sort of gender identity or expectations. Animals, again, don't have a concept of gender, so it is way more complicated than that.

“So I need people to look at this from a trans pov and be charitable. In effect, trans people have no actual representation in nature. Gay people have animals that display homosexual behaviours. Intersex people have intersex animals. But trans people are shit out of luck. Those of us who know better know that most animals with funky gender are intersex. However, many (especially young) trans people don't know that.”

I'm gonna be honest, this may be the part where I begin to get heated. This idea that we must “look at this from a trans POV and be charitable” is almost laughable. I am trans. I knew I was trans for years before I found out I was intersex. I do know what it's like, I did the same things! I have heavily related to maned lionesses, female hyenas, male seahorses, and many more, years before I found out I was intersex, and still do because of my transsexuality. To frame it like all intersex people who have an issue with this discussion are all cis and don't understand the struggle of trying to find other living creatures like us is really uncharitable, ironically.

And, I understand feeling left out in this discussion. It's hard and even heavily debated on finding things in nature to relate to, but that doesn't mean intersex people shouldn't still correct the trans people who leave us out and even erase us from this conversation.

“So a 14 year old trans person, excited to see something like them* in nature shouldn't be spoken to in the ways I see intersex people making posts on here do. One post I saw stated with allcans "I HATE PERISEX PEOPLE"** and proceeded to really have a go at trans people being misguidedly excited.”

Making up a trans person to make this argument sound better is something that really made me angry when reading this. You have given zero examples outside of anecdotes on issues like this, so to say “what if there is a 14 y/o trans person who is wrong about this? They shouldn't be yelled at” is frankly disingenuous. If you have read more than one post, at least by me, you will see that many intersex people will gently correct trans people who are wrong about intersex animals (a lot of them being older than 14) and be berated for “being transmisic”. That is why you will see intersex people having such strong reactions to this topic. It’s more than just trans people being excitedly misguided, it is hundreds, thousands of trans people, who are supposed to be our allies, erasing us from this conversation and Not Allowing Us to be included.

Of course, I am in no way defending such actions by intersex people, but it is frankly upsetting to ask us to be charitable when we finally get burnt out and vent our frustrations when we weren't given the same charitability.

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“At a certain point it just feels cruel yknow? Yeah, perisex trans people relating to intersex animals and not realising they're intersex is annoying. But getting blisteringly angry at what is most often done out of ignorance (often by young trans people) is really troubling to me.”

You are missing a very key part of this discussion, almost intentionally. Not only have I, and other intersex people explained why this discussion is so upsetting for us and why it's important that misinformation gets corrected and we get listened to, it's upsetting to constantly defend the ignorance of trans people under the guys of them being young. I am young. Not to pull that card, but I am a minor. I have been a minor, for like, all my life, but when I was corrected, when I was criticized for being wrong on a subject, I learned better and moved on. Even before I found out I was intersex, (I was 16 at the time, so like 14-16) when interacting with such conversations, I still listened to the criticisms of the intersex community, whether they were being kind and charitable, or “blisteringly angry”.

On the note about “blisteringly angry”, where is the anger? Why are people “blisteringly angry”? If you could provide examples, that would be wonderful, but in defence of the “blisteringly angry”, it's so uncharitable to imply that they are being unreasonable, or their anger isn't justified. Like I have said, however many times over the course of my blog’s existence, and in this response, the reason we are “blisteringly angry” is because of the erasure. It's not a good feeling! We’re gonna get angry! Especially coming from the queer, and specifically trans community. Even if some of them are just young ignorant, well meaning good faith actors, there are too many. Too many people that just completely erase us and don't put in any effort to include us. That's a bad feeling. It's why we get angry. It's why we get loud.

“Like, there are much bigger problems and honing in on "perisex people" in general instead of specifically saying "perisex trans people" is also a bit weird. We all know cis perisex people aren't seeing intersex animals and going "look a trans/nonbinary animal". This anger at perisex people generally in these kinds of post seems mostly reserved for trans people. Listen, I'm not trying to say this is definitely the case, but I wonder sometimes whether some people just find trans people (mostly young people) annoying and want to use "perisex" for a guise to lash out at another oppressed minority for what is, in all seriousness, probably an innocent mistake remedied by "just so you know that animal is intersex not trans".”

“There are much bigger problems” this is the fallacy called “fallacy of relative privations”, it's to downplay this issue by appealing to the fact that there are “worse things out there”, it implies and honestly explicitly says that is intersex people shouldn't care about this issue because we have bigger fish to fry. This is bullshit! Frankly! You cannot determine for us what we should and shouldn't care about, what we should and shouldn't discuss and criticize. And, to say this, into he middle of a over 1,700+ word post talking about this is fucking laughable.

Then, the small nitpick of “why say “Perisex” when you mean “trans Perisex””, and imply that our criticisms of the intersexism that trans perisex people exhibit is just an excuse to punch down on trans people is disgusting. To say “to lash out at another oppressed minority for what is, in all seriousness, probably an innocent mistake” is. Baffling. Can intersex people not criticize trans people? Even if it is an “innocent mistake”, it is an example of the systemic and internalized erasure of intersex people and it is harmful. It NEEDS to be called out, especially if we want any sort of help or camaraderie with trans perisex people.

A note on the “another oppressed minority” bit, oppressed minorities need to be called out too. Oppressed minorities shouldn't, and CANNOT, be let off scott free when they exacerbate the harm and oppression of other minorities. Do we just let black men slide when they exhibit misogynoir? Do we let cis gay men slide when they exhibit transmisogyny? Do we let neurodivergent people slide when they exhibit ableism to physically disabled people? No. We NEED to call this behavior out. If we don't, THAT will lead to the separation of minority groups, not the other way around.

“Additionally, I have to ask - what is so bad about a trans person seeing an intersex animal and being inspired by it? Again, we have no representation in nature. But if a 14 year old trans person misguidedly calls a butterfly trans instead of intersex and is receptive to being corrected, but also not causing any harm. I fail to see why this issue is as big as it is. I get being annoyed at having to repeat yourselves, but that's an issue other oppressed people (including trans people) have to deal with. Even if a trans person isn't corrected and erroneously believes an animal is trans (or trans-like). Okay, kinda frustrating I get it but also not the crime of the century.”

You have added on to your fake person to make your argument better. How the trans person is actually receptive to being corrected, also the animal is now a butterfly, to make the argument seem even less serious.

To answer your question, “what is so bad about a trans person seeing an intersex animal and being inspired by it?” Listen, Ty, when I tell you, nobody thinks there is something wrong with that. Nobody. if you actually listened, you would know the issue is the ERASURE. I love and support trans people who feel relatability to intersex animals, as I have said, however many times, the issue is the erasure of their intersexuality.

“I fail to see why this issue is as big as it is.” 1) you are the one blowing this out of proportion. How many posts do I ACTUALLY make about this issue? I have two major posts about this with miscellaneous submissions from anons, in no way is this issue as big or important as the other ones I focus and post about. 2) I can see that you fail to understand, if you did, this post wouldn't exist.

“But that's an issue other oppressed people (including trans people) have to deal with.” And that means we must let the misinformation continue to be exacerbated? Would this not just inspire you and other perisex trans folks further to try to understand us and help spread accurate information and awareness on this subject because you, more than any other minority, might understand this struggle since intersexuality and trans identity are so related?

“Okay, kinda frustrating I get it but also not the crime of the century.” Nobody said it was the crime of the century. But it's still an issue that needs to be addressed. How can one person be so bad faith then claim to be “attempting to unlearn intersexist biases, as all perisex people should,” according to your bio?

“There seems to be a disproportionate response in this area and it baffles me. It's really aggresive and mean-spirited. It's as bad as the mid 2010s when some of my fellow trans people did the whole "did you assume my pronouns" thing and some proceeded to completely overreact to well-meaning allies messing up by accident (n.b. valid when it was on purpose, ofc). This kind of blowing up at people for small mistakes and suspicious targeting of only other oppressed people (l.e. lateral aggression/people within reach) is worrying and off-putting behaviour and it really should be reined in.”

“A disproportionate response in this area” as far as my posts go, I have made 4 posts talking about this. I have over 100 posts on my blog in total. I have only made FOUR POSTS talking about, specifically, trans people calling intersex people trans identities. Where is the “disproportionate response? Where is it? Genuinely?

I'm not even going to address the “aggressive and mean-spirited” commentary that has been repeated throughout this post, it's deeply revealing to how you view intersex people and our criticisms (it's something I've been accused of being just by virtue of being queer, black, disabled, and angry about my identities and communities being disrespected, and it hurts personally.).

And, this is probably the most ironic bit of your post so far, to compare this issue to the 2010’s “did you assume my pronouns” thing is. I don't even have the words. The fucking blog specifically called “is-it-malgendering”, is dunking on trans people for being upset and “overreacting” to being MISGENDERED/MALGENDERED. Ty, this cannot be real. You, of ALL people, should be able to understand trans people who get overly defensive of being misgendered, even by well-meaning allies. You are here, saying trans people not addressing their dysphoria and having outbursts is bad, directly contradicts with your later statements about dysphoria preventing trans perisex people from supporting the intersex movement. But we’ll get to that when we get there!

(Side note, to use this example of “did you assume my gender” while not understanding that that entire craze was a psyop by anti SJW assholes that made “triggered” content day in and day out is fucking hilarious. That whole thing was exacerbated by transmisic assholes that spread that sort of rhetoric for AGES, please give me an example of an ACTUAL trans person that was acting out and being harmful in such a way that isn't a) Sourced by a known transmisic asshole or b) isn't a bad faith actor like Lily Tino.)

“This kind of blowing up at people for small mistakes and suspicious targeting of only other oppressed people (l.e. lateral aggression/people within reach) is worrying and off-putting behaviour and it really should be reined in.” Again, where in the world are you getting the idea that there is a disproportionate response to trans people being called out for this issue? This is not suspicious targeting, or an example of “lateral aggression”, it's an important conversation that needs to be discussed so that intersex people can be respected within the trans and wider queer community. This RESPONSE is disproportional and suspicious targeting if ANYTHING. Then, to say “it really should be reined in”, another example of trying to have authority over what intersex people should be discussing, is hilarious.

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“Absolutely, correct people. But I've seen enough posts of people behaving unacceptably that I think it needs to be pointed out the current response is not the way and possibly harmful.”

Again, please, I beg of you, site your sources. Give screenshots. Anything. I do think that if there is transmisic responses to this issues, it does need to be called out and handled, because yes, I 100% agree that it will lead to separatism between these communities, but that is NOT what I am seeing, and it has not been the intention of me or others when talking about this issue.

“As a final aside, I think speaking as a trans person - we're alienated from so much due to transphobia and cis society, so it's natural for many trans people to (even if mistakenly) see ourselves in nature. I don't think the majority of trans people saying "trans" when they see an intersex animal are doing it out of malice. The trans person is also a person affected by many of the same mechanisms as intersex people and vice versa. At the end of the day, it's not a big deal. Even though its annoying, I'm sure. But there's bigger problems out there that require the righteous anger being disproportionately put into tearing down your trans siblings who are, at worst, ignorant of the existence of intersex animals. Which is easily corrected.”

Nobody ever said the issue was the fact that trans people are relating to intersex animals, and yes, we are fully aware that trans people aren't doing it out of malice. Of course not. I, as a trans and intersex person, understand COMPLETELY the feeling of being alienated and trying to find some sort of proof of my existence in nature. I heavily sympathize with and relate to perisex trans people who do this. And yes, on your point, it's 100% true that the mechanisms used to oppress intersex people are pretty much one in the same for trans people. It's not a mystery, especially to me. The issue is that there is still a difference, and trans perisex people are still engaging in intersexist behavior by erasing us from this conversation. That is ALL that we are calling in from this discussion.

“At the end of the day, it's not a big deal.” Again, four posts. Total. That I have made on this issue. You cannot make such a response, then claim it's “not a big deal”. Which is it, Ty?

“But there's bigger problems out there that require the righteous anger being disproportionately put into tearing down your trans siblings who are, at worst, ignorant of the existence of intersex animals. Which is easily corrected.” again, there is no disproportionate response, there is righteous anger being focused on “bigger issues”, and intersex people calling these issues out isn't “tearing down your trans siblings”, it is a CALLING IN, an important awareness of an example of how the trans community erases us.

This next paragraph is sensitive, so I'm going to handle it as sympathetically as I can.

“The last thing I'll say - and this is why this kind of rhetoric really hurts (despite the fact I don't consider intersex animals trans and I'm not the people being called out for doing so) - is that when I was outed against my will to my parents (now estranged) we ended up having an argument that lasted from the early evening until late at night. My dad looked at me exasperatedly and kept naming animals at me, saying how they're not trans, so how could I be? I won't detail it, but I was sobbing and crying the whole time. My parents were abusive for other reasons, but this transphobia formed part and parcel of it in this instance.”

This is really tough, and I am so sorry you had to experience that. It is disgusting, and appalling that your parents would treat you in such a way, so I sympathize with the pain you must be feeling with these sorts of discussions. It's hard, and invalidating at times, to be told that there aren't living creatures like you in nature, even if it's true. I get it. I’ve had the same encounters in my life.

“That's why this chafes so much for me - cis perisex people have used the nonexistence of trans animals to invalidate my transness. So I can see how other trans people who have had similar experiences might initially percieve being corrected as a threat. While this is unhelpful, this is a situation that demands a bit of compassion for everyone's experiences and why they might react initially one way, but still be open to reason once it's established the criticism is well-meant and not a threat. Intersex people who aren't trans who get so so mad at trans people innocently finding hope in like, a bilateral gynandromorph cardinal need to remember that trans people who are perisex don't reap the social rewards of cis perisexness. We might have experiences like mine, in which our transness is invalidated because of biology (in this case, that transness can't exist in animals, so it is argued it cannot exist in humans). These memories are painful and can cause dysphoria.”

And this is where this issue becomes much worse. We cannot stop correcting trans folks on this issue and let trans people continue to spread misinformation because of their dysphoria. It's sad, I know, but we cannot let one’s personal pain be the reason we let such discussions continue on in this way.

Don't misunderstand me, I understand. I am trans. I was openly trans before I was openly intersex. So I understand, but I also understand why we must continue to call in the spread of misinformation and erasure of intersex people. We shouldn't defend this erasure because trans perisex people don't get an animal to fully relate to, we should be focusing on fighting against the gender binary and stopping the whole idea of false equivalency all together (because, yes, it IS a false equivalency to say that the non-existence of transness in other animals is proof that transness in humans is false.).

It's only in this paragraph that you specify that the anger is coming from cis intersex folks. Up until this point, you have made no distinction between cis and trans intersex people. Again, I ask of you, please show examples of cis intersex people that are making this “disproportionate” outrage about trans people relating to intersex animals. It feels to me that you only make this distinction now because you think it will make your point sound better, because, sorry, a lot of these criticisms are coming from intersex people within the trans community!

Again, I understand the pain, but we cannot pretend that there is only “blistering anger” in response to this discussion, that there is no sympathy or empathy on the intersex side of this discussion. So many people have been gently corrected, so many intersex people have been trying to be kind, understanding, nice, accommodating, charitable, but often we get met with hate, anger and defensiveness, or we are straight up ignored. This is not okay! Even though we can fully understand the dysphoria surrounding this discussion, it does not in any way justify the way we are being erased and even punched down on by perisex trans people when we try to talk about this. Of course we are going to have moments of frustration, of course we are going to be mean and exasperated when this discussion goes nowhere, it's a very frustrating topic!

“When intersex people call out perisex trans people, it sometimes feels like our transness is dismissed. Not as in, its unacknowledged. But that the reasons why perisex trans people are sometimes resistant to unlearning intersexism is because unlike cis perisex people, trans perisex people are often dealing with a shit-ton of dysphoria. But very often, I get the impression when people vent about perisex people but only mention issues only a trans person could have, the transness of said people is being erased in favour of flattening their experience to just "perisex" when their transness might be a major factor in events. Like by all means, call them out if their behavior is unacceptable, but remember that they are trans. Don't flatten perisex trans people into the same mental category as cis perisex people, because they're not the same and it is unhelpful. I once worded this very poorly, but I think I'm finding the words-”

Ty, I think there is something you are crucially missing, in your effort to point out the erasure of trans perisex people’s transness in this discussion; when talking about the intersexism that trans people exhibit, we are focusing on their perisexuality because that is the axis of privilege they are standing on. You have said quite a few times throughout this conversation that “trans perisex people don't benefit from cis perisexuality", this is very true, but they still experience perisex privilege by itself. They will not experience the pain of being diagnosed as a hermaphrodite, of being forced to conform to one identity from birth when their body isn't typical, of being “corrected”, of being shamed and harassed and hurt for their natural traits. They will exhibit and even exacerbate the idea that intersexuality isn't natural, that it's just a disorder, that it's wrong and there are only two sexes. They will uphold the sex binary, they will hurt intersex people. Of course their transness is important in this discussion, and I and many others have discussed, in length, the intersecting oppression of transness and intersexuality, but we cannot forget that trans perisex people will and have weaponized their perisexuality to harm intersex people and erase us from conversation.

“Don't flatten perisex trans people into the same mental category as cis perisex people, because they're not the same and it is unhelpful.” This sentence in particular is ironic, because throughout this entire post, you have done nothing but flatten intersex people into being all transmisic, blisteringly angry, cis people who are weaponizing trans perisex people’s perisexuality to punch down on them. For simply asking that we not be erased from the discussion of intersex animals. Do you hear yourself???

“Essentially, it often feels like some (not all) intersex people start to resent perisex trans people for not getting over our dysphoria fast enough to further the intersex cause. l.e. the adoption of certain new terminology is slow, because you're not rutting up against cis perisex people just being ignorant or digging their heels in at being asked to change, you're also dealing with that new sex terminology affects trans people more than it does cis people. There's going to be chafage as some people may find the terminology involuntarily dysphoria inducing. I, for instance, heavily dislike mulleripathian and wolffian (despite the fact I tolerate their usage as I see the aim and put aside my own dysphoria while having legitimate qualms, not least with the continuation of naming things after dead old men). While I can put my dysphoria aside on that one, I know the majority of perisex trans people aren't thinking about these things in this much detail and thus intersex activism sometimes rubs up against trans dysphoria in a way which can feel threatening to trans people. I don't think I'm alone in feeling like I need to get over my dysphoria for the sake of intersex liberation, or else I'm The Problem. But the key word is "feels" threatening. Not *is The Problem. But the key word is "feels" threatening. Not *is actually threatening. I feel like perisex trans people would be more receptive to education on intersexism that remembers our transness instead of ignoring it and acknowledges we may feel dysphoria over some issues, but 9/10 times that dysphoria is tripping needlessly and its up to us to manage that. I think the acknowledgement is important, because we need to feel like we're being talked to like equals, instead of ignorant caricatures.”

I won't say much about your dysphoria surrounding Mülleripathian and Wollfian language, that's completely valid and fair for you to feel and you don't need to use that language for yourself, but this last paragraph in particular just reads so awfully to me.

Why is it that intersex people must be so accommodating to trans perisex people’s dysphoria and feelings over such things when we are never given any thought at all? Why must we put in so much work to make sure dysphoric trans folks don't “chafe” at such discussions? Why must we give so much grace, so much charitability, so much effort to gentle parent dysphoric trans people when all we ask is that we not be ignored or forgotten? How often are we the last thought? How often are we a side note? How often are our bodies used as proof of trans identity but never any effort be put in to uplift us simply for being human beings?

And, who is to say we DON'T do such things? Who is to say we don't prioritize dysphoria? How many times have I answered back to back to back questions by good faith perisex trans people asking how to be good allies and how to move forward? How many times do I have to emphasize that changing language in OPEN PUBLIC DISCUSSIONS so that intersex people be included is the only issue? Perisex people can use whatever language they want for themselves, all intersex people ask is that they communicate more effectively because some language just doesn't work for us. I’ve even had intersex people say that they don't like Mülleripathian or Wollfian language, or even still enjoy AGAB language! This conversation is NOT as rigid as you are painting it to be and it's really driving me up the wall.

And, I am sorry, but it is up to you to manage your dysphoria. If you, or other perisex trans people’s dysphoria is tripping you up and hindering you from being a good intersex ally, that is a problem that YOU have to solve. Dysphoria is a personal issue, much the same way general body image issues and trauma are, you cannot expect intersex people (whom this whole paragraph is implying don't also experience dysphoria) to pause our fight, our conversations, so that trans perisex people are accommodated for for every step of the way.

If a simple language change is too hard, then stop trying to pretend like you care, or simply stop engaging with such conversations. Simply. If these conversations are causing you, or other trans perisex folks to be tripped up, then stop engaging with them.

This is also just straight up hypocrisy, what is so different between intersex people asking kindly that AGAB language should be put away or that Mulleripathian and Wollfian language be used (which was coined specifically for dysphoric people because female and male as terms have been heavily gendered) and trans people asking cis people to use new language to be more inclusive to them? Do you not remember the years and hours and thousands of words worth of pushback to such proposals made by trans people? The thousands of cis people claiming it's too hard and that we must be more accommodating to their struggles to change language? The thousands of cis women claiming making language more inclusive to trans men and nonbinary people was stripping them of their womanhood? Do you not remember? How is it different? How can you see the vitriol shown by cis perisex people being simply asked to change language to be more accommodating to trans people and then turn around and exhibit the same talking points to intersex people asking the same of the trans perisex community?

“Most perisex trans people aren't unreasonable and talking to them instead of blowing up at them for small things (e.g. calling an intersex animal trans by mistake/out of ignorance) will provide better results.

This has accidentally turned into a long post but there's a lot here I think is important to say. Because if we can reduce the amount of toe-stepping, I'm certain this will lead to better allyship between the trans and intersex communities.”

The point of these conversations is to toe step. It's SUPPOSED to make people feel uncomfortable, it's supposed to challenge people’s thought and action. We NEED to challenge each other, for progress. If we do not challenge each other, we will fail. Simply.

We cannot cater to perisex trans people, we cannot keep gentle parenting perisex people to treat us right, to remember us, to acknowledge us, to simply respect us. If you have such demands of the intersex community in order to show your support, you never supported us at all, at least in a way that matters.

Having comprehension tests is so fucking ironic considering This Entire Post, but I digress.

“*"something like them" - reading comprehension test - Did OP say "exactly like them"? Did he suggest that intentional ignorance of intersex animals is okay?”

No, but with this post you are constantly defending, infantilizing and delegitimizing the arguments that intersex people have for people who do do such things. You gave zero examples of trans perisex people that have been genuinely awful to intersex people when they are corrected, it's always been “young, misguided, well meaning and open to correction children”. There are adult, misguided, mean spirited people that will absolutely buck at any sort of correction, and you gave ZERO allusion to that. It's disingenuous, because you know full well that when intersex people complain about this topic, they aren't just talking about well meaning children. (Also, giving no grace or charitability to the intersex youth that are encountering such discussions, such as myself, continuing to frame this issue like it's bad faith adults who just want to punch down on kids. Good look, Ty.)

“** Comprehension test part 2 - Did OP say Intersex people should never vent about perisex people? Was the actual suggestion that this specific vent skirts dangerously close to transphobia and more tact is needed to avoid legitimate qualms boiling over into lateral aggression?”

Your actions show how you actually feel about intersex people venting about this discussion. You have framed genuine arguments around shutting up intersex people venting about this conversation. You have made more than one post alluding to some post of some intersex person venting about the intersexism they face by trans perisex people and continue to tone police them because “it could lead to separatism and segregation of the communities”. Even though you haven't explicitly said it, your continued effort to shape these sorts of vents to be palatable to trans perisex people that NEED to hear these criticisms is proof enough of that.

I know a lot of people have him being a teenager around the first l’manberg arc, but personally i like it much better when he’s already in his twenties. this makes cWilbur’s constant infantilization of him even more infuriating when he’s a grown ass adult, and it makes cFundy even more upset to see his dad treating cTommy and cTubbo (who are like fifteen or even fourteen at the time) as more capable and adult than him. it also twists the knife in a little bit deeper when cWilbur elects first cTommy and then cTubbo as president without even LOOKING at Fundy. I also think it adds to the theme of him never getting to belong anywhere–because of how Wilbur infantilizes him, he either feels insecure around other adults or they treat him like a child (or both, one begetting the other), but he can’t fit in with the kids like Tommy and Tubbo either because he’s too old for him. not that his age means he gets any respect from them, because nobody respects Fundy, least of all his own freaking dad. like broooooo every time i think about cFundy it makes me lose my shit the way he’s treated like a useless toddler by everybody. and this is exactly why he switched sides so suddenly with cSchlatt, because in my AU cSchlatt saw him just the same as everybody else but recognized him as easily manipulatable. all he had to do was offer Fundy a little respect, treat him like a man and not a boy, and Fundy was hooked. when Fundy wrapped back around to hating Schlatt, he felt extreme shame for having been so easily hoodwinked and told himself he wasn’t gonna care about anyone anymore. he’s not great at that, but he does his best to act that way outwardly. 

he loves Yogurt so so much and is also so so scared for them. he’s heard all Wilbur’s drunken rants throughout his childhood about cPhilza. he knows Phil told himself he would be a good father, despite his father and childhood. he knows Wilbur told himself he would be a good father, despite his father and childhood. and now here Fundy is telling himself the same thing, except unlike his dad and granddad, he barely believes it. years of being treated as useless have led to deep-seated belief and fear that he is useless, which only exacerbates his worries about how Yogurt will grow up. part of the reason he forms a shaky relationship with Phil, cTubbo, and cRanboo is because he wants Yogurt to have somewhere to go if he turns out like everyone else in his family. he doesn’t think Phil was a good dad either, or a great granddad, but he seems to have changed and at any rate, if Fundy was bad enough for Yogurt to leave then Phil would have to be better for him, right? Wilbur never left Phil, after all, but Phil was the one who left him, so maybe Phil’s not good. in that case Yogurt can fall back on Tubbo and Ranboo. and Tubbo and Ranboo have a kid of their own, who seems to be pretty happy. Yogurt can have a friend his age, something Fundy never had. maybe Yogurt will like having a friend so much that they’ll want to leave Fundy. no, no, can’t worry about that. 

Fundy has a mild form of schizophrenia with mostly auditory hallucinations (his chat) and occasional visual hallucinations. he has extreme insomnia, and when he does get to sleep, he has recurring nightmares. while living in Las Nevadas he confided in cQuackity about his issues and cQuackity set him up with sleeping pills that knock him out for about eight hours each night, so that’s pretty solid. Quackity might even be able to find him some schizophrenia meds, but Fundy would never ask. he’s never told anyone about his hallucinations, not even cNiki (who he misses but also avoids). cQuackity also got him some antidepressants, which he appreciates. Las Nevadas actually has a pretty solid pharmacy, and it tends to do steadier business than the casino in the off months. 

and of course he is transgender. he’s always gonna be transmasc to me. he uses he/him pronouns and actually might not be a full guy (he would probably lean more towards he/they and transmasc nonbinary if he got comfortable with it) but after so much constant infantilization he feels like he needs to be manly in order to be treated as a real man. nobody on the server ever misgendered him or was transphobic to him, but the infantilization made him feel like a little tiny kid, and a bit like a girl, too. he also doesn’t like to wear bright colors or colors of any kind really because it reminds him too much of that stupid little crayon-colored uniform that NOBODY else had, not even the literal children six-plus years younger than him. the infantilization affected his self-image so badly and continues to do so more and more over the years. 

he’s also gay, and yes, the Dundy wedding was canon, and yeah, it totally fucked him up. he actually did have genuine crush on cDream (like half the server did for some reason, forbidden fruit i guess?) and he was genuinely excited about the wedding, in part because he just wanted to be with cDream, and in part because he thought that being with someone like Dream who commanded so much respect would have to rub off on him, right? people would take him more seriously then, right? and then cGeorge literally stole Dream from him right in front of EVERYBODY at the stupid enormous wedding venue that he’d commissioned just for Dream with all the fancy things that he’d spent so much time on. months and months of work, so much effort from him, for George to ruin it all like it was nothing to him. in front of everyone, including his dad, including Tommy. it really, really hurt to be thrown away so blatantly like that, to be treated like just another stupid little joke for the billionth time with an extra dose of public humiliation, when he’d thought he was actually having something serious. it did not help that there were a lot of jokes from all sides afterward about how incompatible he and Dream were and how ridiculous they’d have been together and so on and so forth. it honestly ruined romance for him a bit to have his first serious relationship (or so he thought) get turned into a hilarious joke after he poured so much effort into it.