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@schnuckiputz
Everyone: omg Hollander leash your dog, Ilya is barking at opponent hockey players again
Shane Enabler Hollander: ok so Ilyusha this player has had zero assists in the entire season, he got drafted last, and finally - and this is crucial - he once scored a goal in his own team's net
Ilya Heart Eyes Rozanov: thank you my ShaneWiki this is valuable data, off I go
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READY OR NOT 2: HERE I COME (2026) dir. Matt Bettinelli-Olpin & Tyler Gillett
Snuggle bugs š
no, I don't think you understand...everything is about shane hollander actually
so I'm a little obsessed with the whole blood and dead eyes looking to the camera premise... can u tell...
trend ref and more below :)
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He knows.
Heated Rivalry Open Relationship AU chapters (updated 23 July)
Completed (for nowā¦)
A few weeks ago @perlukafarinn posted "I love an AU where Ilya seduces Shane away from an asshole boyfriend and I really want one where the boyfriend suggests opening the relationship andĀ that'sĀ how Shane and Ilya first start fucking." And lo, the #OpenRelationshipAU was born, and lots of people have been getting very excited about the chapters @perlukafarinn has been posting.
This finding document covers JUST the story. (There are now more than 40 posts in the tag and a lot of it is discussion.) I'm putting in a logline and a quote from each post.
The Idea/Outline Post
Snippet:
Boyfriend is out and Shane is not (for obvious reasons) and while this doesnāt necessarily make for an unhealthy relationship Boyfriend is, as established, an asshole. Heās not shy about reminding Shane of how lucky he is that he puts up with the secrecy and how impossible it would be for Shane to find someone else in his situation.Ā
Theyāve also been together since they were teenagers so Boyfriend is the only guy Shane has ever been with and the only one who knows Shane is gay, which also means that Shane has no one to talk to about any misgivings he might have about the relationship.
The story is the same as in canon from Ilyaās perspective until the CCM commercial when he hits on Shane in the shower and Shane, visibly into Ilya and fighting with himself internally, tells him he canāt because he has a boyfriend. Then he panics about what he just told Ilya but Ilya promises not to tell anyone - they have the same secret, after all. Sure heās disappointed but he can always find other people to fuck (that hollow feeling in his chest feels like a lot more than just disappointment but Ilya ignores that).
After the cut: chapter by chapter, both in posting order and in timeline order. I'll update this as the story continues.
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I haven't read the books so I dunno canon material, but I was wondering how much evidence is there in the books that Montreal is as obsessed with hockey in universe as it is in real life? We can infer that Shane is worried about getting recognized and that he faces a lot of pressure because Montreal is obsessed and the show mentions burning effigies, but we've also been told that the lock outs didn't happen, so if canon is willing to change that, shouldn't it be true that canon could change other things too? I guess I'm just curious about how much real world logic can and should be applied to a fictional setting. Obviously it's more compelling if more real world logic applies as you can draw on actual lived experiences and have more commentary on real life, but I am curious about how much the source material does this
So I actually agree that canon can absolutely change details about the world for the sake of worldbuilding, but in this case she didnāt. It is explicit in the book that Montreal is just as hockey obsessed as it is in the real world. At the very beginning of heated rivalry, she talks about how Montreal fans loved the Voyageurs to the point of absurdity. They were the loudest fan base and the most enthusiastic fan base, to the point where it was hard for visiting teams to play against them. The fans travel to Ottawa to cheer on the Voyageurs because theyāre such dedicated fans and they sell out the arena for the entire season in advance. They are described as the most legendary team in the NHLāall of which is just copying pretty directly from real life. Fuck, the Voyageurs is just the name of the Canadiensā AHL affiliate team, which is why they had to change it for the show. She just sort of copied and pasted Montrealās entire hockey culture.
She seems to have left all of Montrealās queer culture on the table though.
Like. Seriously, someone correct me if thereās something I forgot, but I canāt remember it being in the books at all. And Iām kind of pissed at that exclusion, specifically because itās implied that Montreal fans are a part of forcing Shane out.
I say implied because we get to see next to nothing about what happened to Shane that was so bad that it forced him off the team he loved. Almost the entirety of the aftermath happens from Ilyaās POV and he glazes over the it because he doesnāt give a shit about what Shaneās going through. He talks about how thereās a host of opinion pieces in the news the day after the game about how Shane tripped on purpose and goes off about how theyāre insulting to him, actually, because what do you mean he needs Shane to throw the game to win. We know that the team and the media have a vitriolic reaction, and thereās a host of āangry tweets in the gameās wake. Of course when Troy Barrett suffers backlash we get to see the tweets and an in depth portrayal of how they affect him. But I think we can glean that there was not an outpouring of support from Montrealās fan community considering whatever happens is so bad that Shane feels like heāll never be comfortable representing that team again.
Again, I think that itās fine to borrow from the real world but change real world details for the sake of world building. I do it myself. For example, the pride tape ban in snapping birch really happened, but it happened years later. I moved the timeline back but kept the real details, because it happened after the events of snapping birch and I wanted to talk about it.
I do have a rule though. And I donāt ascribe negative traits to real people, especially if they donāt have those negative traits in real life. I think itās in really poor taste. Like. I donāt want to be like āhereās my obvious insert of John Doe, except for the purposes of this story, he just loves kicking fucking puppies.ā Like. John Doe probably felt a little hurt by that.
Granted, Montreal fans arenāt a singular person who can get their feelings hurt. But I still think that having them be part of what forces out Shane for reasons related to his identity as a queer man was in really poor taste.
Like. We might not have queer rights if it wasnāt for the Montreal LGBTQ+ community.
In the 70s, the queer community in Montreal was targeted in a series of police raids and they rioted so goddamn hard that Quebec banned discrimination based on sexual orientation across the province just to get them to stop. In fucking 1977. It was the first major jurisdiction on the entire planet to legally protect sexual orientation, and it happened because of motherfucking Montreal. That city is one of the birthplaces of queer rights.
Iām going to be honest, coming into this fandom, I straight up thought that Montreal was kind of conservative and homophobic. Thatās how the fandom treated it. I didnāt know anything about the city before I came into the fandom. The biggest basis I had was āpushed Shane out after he was outed.ā
There is something that really pisses me off about farming the culture of a real city for your fucking gay smut, erasing the fact that they have one of the largest and most historically significant queer populations in human history, and then making them the villains who unfairly demonized and pushed out their previously beloved and historic queer captain for reasons related to his sexuality. And even if she didnāt intend it, thereās a fuckton of people out there that Iāve seen in this fandom who act like that historically queer city is filled with raging homophobes. I think that entire narrative was done in very poor taste, frankly.
expanding on my comment because i have thoughts
i truly believe (and had this feeling, although unnamed, when reading TLG in particular) that this villanification of the city AND CULTURE of MontrƩal comes from (maybeeee unconscious) anti-quebec sentiment.
as written above, MontrƩal is very (the most) gay and very (the most) hockey. the story is about a gay hockey player who is the face of Montreal hockey. if shane hollander was real, he would have his own statue around the centre bell before even retiring. why pretend he would get run out of the city by the media and the fans?
now, this is where i get a lil spicy
long story short, the rest of canada doesn't love the province of quƩbec. we speak french, we are the epicenter of a lot of the recognizable canadian culture although we tried to leave the dominon twice, we were excluded from signing the last constitution, etc, etc. the rest of canada finds us, at best, kind of annoying. until the 70s, the city of MontrƩal was pretty segregated anglo/franco with the Main (boulevard Saint-Laurent) separating the city east (franco)/west (anglo).
btw, that's where the nickname for the actual Canadiens de MontrƩal, the Habs, comes from. it's short for habitants, which is what the anglos called the francos for a long time (inside and outside of quƩbec). it was meant to convey the class diference between the groups.
to preserve and perpetuate language and tradition, quƩbec as a whole, and MontrƩal as a metropolis, have tried to separate and distinguish themselves culturally from the rest of canada.
the rest of canada feels like we're excluding them (current policies do be problematic, but i'm not expanding on that, cause i don't have time to write a thesis on inter-provincial politics) because when they inevitably come to study, or work, or live in MontrƩal, we ask a pretense of conversational french. (...if you are a barista in the gayest city in the country, you should know what oatmilk sounds like in french).
so yeah, quƩbƩcois, montrealites, we are considered the problematic child. the rest of canada often sees us as the heart of the division. we are seen as antagonistic, ungrateful, tax-monchers, etc, etc.
full spice, you may ignore these ramblings
i have had the chance to live in both Barcelona and MontrƩal for extended periods of time and have been immersed in both cultures (considered sub-cultures to a certain degree in the wider country's landscape).
in cities like Barcelona and MontrƩal (and in wider contextes like catalunya and quƩbec), it is impossible to separate culture, and its expression, from language. what makes their cultures (queerness, lifestyle, work-life balance, civil/workers rights, diversity, festivals, business models, etc, etc.) so enticing is inseparable from their languages, it is because of their languages.
you cannot think that they are great cities to live in, or to work in, or to study in, without linking that special-ness to language. MontrƩal is special, fun, cool because it is francophone. Barcelona is special, fun, cool because it is catalan. to pretend to pertain to these cities because you happen to be from the same country they are in (which they have both tried to leave lol) is futile without actual immersion in the language and, thus, in the culture.
once you're in it, it's easy to note the disdain that the rest of the country has for these two cities, all the while trying so hard to use the positive aspects of their cultures (socially, but also in terms of working conditions and work culture) without actually doing anything to preserve it.
we strayed from the point, coming back around
so yeah, reading reid's depiction of MontrƩal's hockey culture in relation to her gay character, i cannot help but think that the violent inaccuracy is just... montrƩal/quƩbec bashing lol
like we truly are the rest of canada's boogeyman. they do not like our culture and its relevance to canadian culture as a whole. they do not like that we love hockey so much, and that that love is reflected quantifyably and monetarily.
The reason why the criticism of the NHL and its many flaws falls so flat in the game changers series is because Rachel Reid refuses to examine the role that race plays in your experience of hockey and hockey culture in Canada, which is honestly very in line with the Canadian, āwell, we barely have racism up here!ā even though people of color, especially Black and South Asian immigrants and First Nations people of color will tell you otherwise.
You cannot criticize and examine hockey culture without the foundational understanding of the role that whiteness plays in the toxicity of hockey culture.
When she said that Shane doesnāt carry grief or trauma it becomes glaringly obvious that she is missing one of the core problems of the toxicity of hockey culture in Canada. Whiteness is what enables this toxic and abusive behavior to continue. Yes, the NFL, NBA, and MLB all have them problems and issues and Iām not denying that, but those leagues all have players of color who would never be allowed to get away with what NHL players do.
I mean even when it comes to the rules of their sport, you think a 6ā8, 300lb Black linebacker is getting a 5 minute penalty for shoving a ref or for getting in their face and yelling at them? You think a bunch of Black athletes could be living in billet homes in small towns with a reputation of violence against little white teenage girls and it would still be a national problem? Whiteness and racism is core and central to the problems in hockey. Look at Gavin McKenna, an indigenous man, being charged with a felony by State College police because they couldnāt wait to make an example out of him.
āShane doesnāt carry grief or trauma.ā
Iāve been reading hockey player memoirs and one of them is about an āaverageā player in the NHL. He was by no means a super star or prodigy, just very good at his sport and he talked about how, as a 6 or 7 year old child, he was already facing bullying by adults for how good he was at hockey. Parents of other players resented him so much for scoring they would tell their kids to target him and would scream obscenities. He was even flipped off as a child and humiliated by coaches because he was good at hockey. And this was a white man.
Add in the fact that Shane is Asian Canadian and hockey is a matter of national identity and lm willing to bet that the first time Shane remembers being called a slur, it was while he was playing hockey, and it was by an adult. Because if they already hate that a child is better at hockey than their child to the point of harassing them, how much worse does it get when the parent realizes that it is Asian child who is better at hockey than their kid? Shane wouldāve been punished at every level of hockey starting at 5 years old for being good at the sport and being Asian because he would make white teammates, coaches, and fans feels āthreatenedā because for so long hockey has been centered around their whiteness.
Not only would Shane have been called names, parents wouldāve been calling for their kids to ātake him outā to take cheap shots and probably screaming slurs at Shane. And Iām willing to bet the coaches and refs did nothing unless the Hollanders threatened to sue, and not Yuna, David had to go down there and flash some legal might around and also the fact that he works for the treasury board and probably knows a thing or two about hockey Canada.
But Shane wouldāve been punished for being not white and being good at hockey and it wouldāve been severe because whiteness is the cornerstone of this sport.
Laila Edwards has talked about experiencing misogynoir as a hockey player and has, probably in the best interest of her PWHL draft and desire not to be harassed by racist trolls, not been as outspoken on vocal as she could be.
Look at Jason Robertsonās exclusion from the Olympics roster and the handwringing of hockey podcasters who ādonāt get why the coaches made the decisions they made.ā Itās because the foundation of this sport and its success is whiteness and white people feel threatened when people of color succeed so they have to knock them down a peg even to their own detriment because thatās how much they hate seeing people of color succeed.
Whiteness is the foundation of this sport and racism is so imbedded that parents will scream at their 10 year old to hit a six year old just because theyāre brown and good at hockey
Like Hockey Canada is struggling to recruit and retain players of colors even as Canada gets more diverse because of the racism.
Even the big book about toxic hockey culture in Canada brushes over the racism even though whiteness and the excuses we make for white men ar front and center as to why hockey culture in Canada got to be the way it is.
You cannot address the issues in hockey Canada unless you also address the fact that the reason why it was allowed to get this bad is because of a whiteness and racism.
rewatching ep 2 and i truly do not know how anyone genuinely thinks shane was a bad or not well-liked captain. jackie says "cap's here!" and they all start chanting "cap". they're immediately asking him for the final say on whether that one guy's playoff beard stays or goes. when shane says ilya's the best, they immediately rush to correct him and assure him he's the best. they love him. they respect him. he's clearly good at what he does to command that kind of respect.
My theory is that part of this results from people knowing Shane is autistic, or even without knowing that, just seeing that he has a less flashy personality than Ilya, and extrapolating autism stereotypes that simply do not apply to Shane Hollander. Shane is used to being in crowds, he is used to dealing with reporters, he is used to interacting with hypermasculine professional athletes. The thing that makes any of that anxiety inducing for him is the constant underlying fear that people will find out he's gay and his career will collapse, but that fear really has nothing to do with him being neurodivergent.
Most people writing Heated Rivalry fic are not professional athletes, so even if they are autistic, I think there's a tendency for the fic author to accidentally project what their reaction would be to, for example, having to do an interview with multiple cameras and microphones pointed at them, and forgetting that that's actually a near-daily experience for Shane Hollander which he has had years of practice at and is very comfortable doing.
Anyway, that's my two cent tangent on a common pitfall of Shane Hollander fic that I think is at least relevant to OP's actual point, even if it is a tangent.
Things that are true about Shane Hollander:
He is starring in an Orange Creme ad in the 2010s, seemingly unironically
Things that I do not think are true about Shane Hollander:
He is slow on the ice (greatly appreciate Tierney & Co shifting this from the more overtly racist 'small,' but this, like many things Ilya says, is clearly meant to tease, I think!); Shane is canonically the quickest ASG skater at 30
He has a weak backhand. I promise you all this is also an Ilya joke! @mistresscurvy and I have spent many minutes ranting about this. We think the joke is actually that his backhand is so great (the person he is loosely based on is renowned for his backhand), but even if you don't believe this, a #2 draft pick doesn't get that far with a demonstrable/identifiable weakness in his game like this one (and as the 'slow' thing attests, Ilya likes to tease about the parts of Shane's game that are actually strongest)! Might it be weaker, comparatively, to other aspects of his best-in-the-world game? Maybe. Might it be marginally weaker than Ilya's? Maybe. But it's likely not actually a weak backhand (and even if it were comparatively weaker to the rest of his best-in-the-world game, might overly intense focus on it, if it exists outside of Ilya teasing, not be a little... mediated, given that Shane is clearly perceived as 'foreign' to the league?).
He is boring. Anyone who pays attention to Shane in the books/show says he is funny: Ilya and Rose both find him hilarious, it seems. And his teammates joke with him, and he makes them laugh! Sure, he's "weird" (and the extent to which this ties to his neurodiversity or truly sets him apart is up for debate, I think, because: many hockey bros are weird), but anyone who knows him even a little says he's funny and fun. It's not unusual for more intimate friends/lovers (gross, Ilya) to know you better, obviously, but what's weird about this is that somehow the world of the book itself seems to think he's boring? This is bad!
I think Reid made a lot of character choices, including the 'boring' one, without considering how they would play with a character of Asian heritage (I won't get onto this soapbox again, but I think that includes Shane's relationship to food), and we should try to do better with handling the implicit bias that led us here!
We know--with data--that people of Asian heritage who are competing in elite spaces are often misrepresented and misperceived as having flat affect/being boring/not being interesting/being interchangeable with one another/being robotic. Stereotypes that are in our cultural water also suggest Asian men are smaller, slower, weaker, less physically imposing than their non-Asian counterparts.
I say we hit the reject button on both of these when we write fic!
And remember: Orange Creme, it's the dream.
cw: disordered eating, cw: eating disorders, cw: food, cw: eating, cw: orthorexia. spoilers for The Long Game.
I... would like to talk about "disordered eating" Shane.
Firstly: as much joy as this general narrative and the show have brought me, I think it may be helpful to acknowledge at the start that these books are just not that well written, in the sense that most characterization questions and most complex issues are not fully explored, and so we're all (as transformative works people do) pulling at strings as we try to find and make meaning in this text. I should also say that if Iād written some fun romance novels and then people started deep-diving as if Iād been intending to write Ulysses, the way I mean to do now, Iād find it pretty fucking rough, so I also accept that. But I think these things are important, and a lot of people have written really intelligently on the shallowness of both Shaneās and Ilyaās characterizations, particularly as it relates to their racial and ethnic identities. Here is one such person!
With this context:Ā I should also say that if you are reading this and your own absolute sense is that Shane is struggling with disordered eatingāhey, not to kick it back to the 60s, but death of the author, man. We've created different meanings as readers while engaging with this text, and I respect that.
I personally, however, do not really believe this. And this is not a hill I would die or even comment on, except that I think this question intersects with two other things about the books that are worth exploring or are challenging/worth challenging (I will resist using the word 'problematic' not because I'm being wishy-washy but because I think that word is expected to do an awful lot of heavy lifting these days, which can make it unclear). I think considering these things more deeply can help flesh out how we understand the book, the narrative, the question of Shane's relationship to eating, and Shane himself. This is helpful for writing, I think! Or at least it has been for me.
These two things are:
1. Limited understanding of/interest in portraying certain aspects of hockey and a life in professional sports, which is tied to the (logical) choice to structure the books entirely around the Ilya-Shane relationship (it's romance!) and the way in which there is (I think) a general expectation on Reid's part that you will suspend your disbelief on these matters for enjoyment's sake.
2. More importantly, the limited and restricted (and restricting) ways in which Shane is conceived of and presented as an Asian, gay character by Reid, and how he is perceived by us, the readers.
So!
This post is making the (very very very limited) rounds again, and I got a thought-provoking ask about why I stand by the above, so I will add, firstly, that thereās tons of interesting stuff in other peopleās tags and comments here.
I also want to re-emphasize the point about many athletic performance diets being inherently disordered, and how I see Shaneāas a complex character and humanāliving at the intersection of lots of stressors and positionalities that would make navigating all kinds of control-focused behavior particularly acute and challenging for him.
I also think Reid is likely failing him here by writing him mediated through her own bias, and I feel itās okay to simply throw out a characterization that fails him: thatās the joy of fic!
And I guess I will add the following: if you are choosing to go with a version of disordered eating that has Shane struggling to eat at all, I encourage you to think about what this would be like if you were trying to get 5000-8000 calories (which, once again, are fake) down the hatch a day. If you are writing Shane struggling with eating, say, grilled chicken, I really encourage you to think about the fact that the life of an athlete who couldnāt eat basic protein staples would be nonstop torture. Shane would have very little room left in his brain for anything else other than just forcing himself to choke down enough grilled chicken and brown rice (athletes need carbs) to have enough energy to skate, all day, every day. And heād have no choice about choking it down, if he wanted to remain an elite hockey player!
I guess one thing I didnāt realize when I first made this post is that this is also about how disordered eating can be really serious, and would be particularly serious in Shaneās context. If you really want to commit to this narrative, I would encourage you to think about how much of an impact in Shaneās day-to-day life it would have, and not to use it as a minor and interesting soupƧon of characterization that Ilya magically cures with his loving dick (ie an athlete who is not eating for two days and is woozy at practice is not getting out of that arena without an in-depth medical exam and interrogationā¦)!
Anyway! Go forth and imagine! And on this particular topic, if you can get knowledgeable about how many athletes talk about food in the way Shane does (disordered as shit for most of us!) maybe this can help see Shane as someone on that spectrum of athletes, and not a vague woobie-and-foreign figure who is someone Distinct From Other Hockey Players.
Thatās what I got, folks!
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dont take anything i post as yuna slander except a little bit I think shes normal I think shanes feelings of anxiety around his sexuality + his mom as the Final Boss to accepting himself Is interesting And Weird . Why is that Shane .
i think the way yuna is kind of representing the power in shanes life that keeps him repressed into an identity that is both sexless, in the way that shane recieves no pleasure or intimacy or honesty, AND that forces him into a sexual role thats wrong and traumatizing for him is so interestinggggggg . He is both Sexless to her and Failing at being Properly Sexual. Like what the hell thats so weird . thats so strange .
he sees it as his responsibility to remain Sexless to her while its her job to manage his Public Facing Sexuality . Like theres just insane stuff there
This is one of the most interesting things Jacob added, imo, all the stuff he pulled from his experiences as a child actor that makes Shane's entire existence such a mindfuck for him to experience and for us to watch.
The commodification of bodies, the way Shane was already a Product from a young age even though the sexualization of it all didn't start right away.
Yuna not only booking his ad appearances but also right there to adjust the wet t-shirt to add to his sex appeal - it hits me every time because that's not normal for a grown adult to have their parent on set in that role, that's a makeup/wardrobe assistant's job, but she's always there stepping in and Shane looks so uncomfortable but he pastes a smile on his face and keeps going.
The way Shane is so in control of his body and yet not at the same time. Sex and hockey are when Shane gets to really use his body in ways that actually make him happy, and even hockey is a job, one that demands so much.
The league gets a say in what happens with his body - his whole image is constructed by the MHL, by Rolex and Reebok, and of course, his own mother who helps orchestrate all of it, all the time.
He's a role model and an underwater model at the same time, stripped to his briefs but the set is cold looking and sterile, nothing sexy about it at all in the moment.
He gets two weeks off a year. He lies to his parents to get some privacy and even then his dad walks in on them without permission. They're so involved with him all the time and they love him and cherish him and they don't really know him at all.
It's just fascinating. I could talk about the Hollanders all damn day.
Your comment about the sexualization not starting right away reminds me of that really interesting interview with Jacob Tierney going around, about how he'd been sexualized by other people when he was a teen actor.
I doubt that Yuna would have booked him for any overtly sexy ads when he was underage. But that wouldn't necessarily stop a director or a producer, a member of the crew, or any other adult from making a comment. I'm sure Yuna would cut a bitch, but she can't be everywhere. And I could imagine a teenaged Shane being really reluctant to admit that there's a situation that he couldn't handle. His mom is already very involved in his life, he's not going to want to go running to her for everything (even if it would be very warranted.)
The wet t-shirt bit bothers me too. But also, the more I think about it, the more squicked out I am about that part in episode one where she reads off the compliments from Rolex and interjects "that's an understatement" when they call him handsome.
It's natural for a mother to think her son is handsome, of course, but in this scene she's agreeing with a marketing assessment. It's her job, she does a good job, he's a grown adult (even though his "god, mom" response is maybe the only time where I thought he actually sounded like a kid.) But the blurred lines are weird and complicated.
No one wants their mom to know they have sex, but when sex is part of the product, and your mom is your manager, I think everything gets tangled up real fast even before we add the closet as a factor.
thinking about Shane's first pride night with the Centaurs ;u;
