Nothing to See Here

I would like to know where in my post I said anything about people being sinister? How does calling out people for being anti-semitic equate to calling "half the world's jews as naturally sinister"?

the entire reason i made this post was because I've seen people refer to The Pitt as israeli propoganda because of a coversation between Robby and a jewish patient where they discuss their faith and the tree of life synagogue attack.

See, you'd never say any neutral mention of the US in a TV show is US propaganda, but you'd easily say that about Israel. That leads me to believe that you don't actually believe your own claim here - that Israelis are actually people who are allowed to exist in the world and not pieces of propaganda who exist only to offend you.

I would like to know where in my post I said anything about people being sinister? How does calling out people for being anti-semitic equate to calling "half the world's jews as naturally sinister"?

the entire reason i made this post was because I've seen people refer to The Pitt as israeli propoganda because of a coversation between Robby and a jewish patient where they discuss their faith and the tree of life synagogue attack.

See, you'd never say any neutral mention of the US in a TV show is US propaganda, but you'd easily say that about Israel. That leads me to believe that you don't actually believe your own claim here - that Israelis are actually people who are allowed to exist in the world and not pieces of propaganda who exist only to offend you.

It hurts my soul. People who seem to care about the people affected by othering or understand why racism is dangerous in America, but can't understand why people are anti-zionist or upset with Israel on a governmental level and on a historical level, or those who might be critical of a place built on colonialism that millions and millions of dollars every year, very carefully crafting its image. This person was reblogging and posting stuff about the rise in anti-Semitism around the world, but saying that it was the anti-zionists who are anti-semitic. I don't know that it's anti-zionists who are focused on Palestinian suffering and war's automatic job to care about stuff like Bondi Beach. The idea that to criticize Israel is to be A Zionist and to be anti-zionist is anti-semitic is literally the party line Israel has been pushing since before 10/7, but they don't use just use these as talking points they use it as a bludgeon.

The psychological warfare practiced on Jewish people is coming from Israel, the state of fucking Israel. When I was a child I had two Israeli, IDF veterans (not just mandatory service but long-time service members), taught at my favorite school and made it their absolute business to teach us that Palestinians and all other Arabs hated us and that if Israel put down her weapons she would be dead by the morning. That is how they phrased it. I cannot forget that. Even at the time started drumming this into my head at 12 years old it felt wrong and strange and offended me. Their rhetoric is frustrating and full of holes and sometimes it doesn't make any sense. I keep ruminating on the fact that people who are kind in other aspects of their life, and have clear cognitive understanding of the world they live in, except for this "blind" spot is so upsetting and exhausting. Do you know how much fighting I do with my family? I don't have any spoons left to fight with random Jews on the internet who think they know better than me. I do it even though I don't want to.

This is not supposed to be a post that is a logical argument that refutes Zionism and anti-Semitism simultaneously, it is just a reminder that when Jews hate each other and turn on each other people who want us dead and gone win.

Oh I'm sorry that this is not better written. Waking up early for something else and then getting derailed by this was not on my bingo card for this morning.

And feels like you're talking in circles on purpose.

Let me just go full cave person... In good faith, that you're not going to twist this around or be weird.

Not an exhaustive list of things that are bad. This is a specific response to the previous post:

Hurting people based on hate, colonialism, greed etc, bad

Hurting civilians, bad

Hurting diaspora Jews, bad

Hurting brown people, bad

Hurting Palestinians, bad

Hurting indigenous people, bad

Hurting anti-zionists bad

I would even go as far as to say: hurting a human being that holds Zionist beliefs but does not actively seek to harm Palestinians is bad.

Most of the Zionists in my life are not actively sending money to Israel cuz they don't have any, are not actively committing hate crimes, they're just making anti-zionists feel like shit, suppressing criticism, and actively making other people's lives more painful, more complicated, etc. It is depressing and painful to be undermined by family and friends when you say, can we at least agree that Israel, the country and governing body are doing harm and they say no. But these humans are not killing or starving anyone, (despite various levels of supporting the regimes that are killing and starving ) just playing games with people on the internet and engaging in thought exercises that do, end up having some psychological damage.

I will say anti-zionists should be somewhat careful that their rhetoric doesn't turn into anti-Semitism. I'm not saying that it always does. I'm saying it rarely does l, but when it does it's ugly, jarring, sometimes coercive and it discredits the movement.

I have seen stuff where anti-zionism starts to turn directly into "Well the Nazis were right you know" or use an ugly stereotypical cartoonish looking Jewish person and turn them into a cockroach or something, or questions like how can we let a place like this exist and the religion that created it get away with it ... Shit like that is anti-Semitic and is wrong, It is on anti-zionists to call out content like this, and make a clear line between their beliefs and anti-Semitism, but it's not anti-zionist's job to take care of Jewish people, it would be nice if they cared, but it's not their job to stand up specifically for Jews. Other Jews, and people from the geo locational community where Jews get/got hurt in this case Australia, it's their job to give a shit more loudly and productively than others. It is not on anti- zionists to protect Jewish people. And yet Anti-zionists are doing more to protect Jews than Israel is.

the real reason was that you got that european itch to mass murder

Don't act like you give a fuck about genocide when you can't wait to reduce the Shoah to 'European itch to mass murder' on a post that is about antisemitic tropes. Yes, we know you're an antisemite. STFU, nobody fucking cares.

Don't act like you give a shit about mass murder when y'all are out here supporting the IRGC, who killed 40,000 people in two days, a number that took Israel 310 days to reach. Waahhh wahhh genocide, mass murder. Fuck off, lol.

What mass murder, dumbass? There is literally no longer a war happening. Just because this is the first war you ever fucking paid attention to doesn't make it a genocide. It makes you an uneducated dipshit.

Basically every Israeli woman does DNA tests during pregnancy to determine the risks of various genetic conditions, especially those more commonly found in Jews, like Tay-Sachs Disease.

At the same time, it advances claims that attempt to forcibly redefine identity through crude, low-grade distinctions—assertions such as “there is no such thing as an ethnoreligion” or "you cannot be born into a religion." Of course, no actual anthropologist would take these claims even remotely seriously.

Anthropology, by contrast, studies precisely the relationships among categories like ethnicity, religion, nation, and tribe—categories that are historically complex, internally variable, and context-dependent—while also taking seriously the perspectives and epistemic validity of the people it studies.

Antizionism flattens these complexities into rigid formulas in order to deny Jews the capacity to define themselves. It really is a crackpot pseudo-anthropology used to objectify and do violence to Jews."

It's funny - people like you are always "I'm just against all states!", yet somehow Israel seems to be the only one that actually bothers you enough to obsess over. Not the dozens of Christian or Muslim states, just that one.

Certainly not the state the Palestinians are demanding, that will be, if their current society is anything to go by, about as pure an Arab-Muslim ethnostate as you can get. They have made it absolutely clear Jews cannot and will not be any part of it.

You're also incredibly ignorant if you think religion is the basis of political Zionism, which was founded and put into action by secular, mostly socialist Jews. Zionism is based on ethnicity, historical connections, cultural relevance and a continuous presence of Jews in the region, even after the exile and multiple attempt to purge them by the various imperial overlords that controlled it.

like seriously, how can anyone take anything after that seriously?

........I don't know how to explain this to you...... but just because one dude says "this is my personal experience" doesn't mean that is like....... the only source..... (since when does that equate to lying, btw? Because you disagree?)

It's not - for the millionth time, no one is stopping you from looking it up (that means venturing outside your social media sphere, fyi). This phenomenon is neither new or contestable. The only place where it's up for debate is in your mind.

But yeah you're so right - security checkpoints are draconian and apartheid. Or whatever.

The U.S. spends hundreds of billions on regions and governments all over the world, providing economic aid, military assistance, and defense. Debates about this spending are entirely legitimate, especially when many Americans struggle to make ends meet. However, singling out aid to Israel (around 0.06% of the U.S. government’s annual budget) is deeply misguided.

Each year, the U.S. provides Israel $3.3 billion in military aid and $500 million for joint missile-defense programs.[14]

Israel must spend most of this funding on U.S.-made products and services, supporting American jobs in the defense industry.[15] By 2028, essentially all of the money must be spent in America.

Israelis are currently debating whether to continue accepting military aid or negotiate different types of security cooperation with the U.S. going forward.

Israel provides the U.S. and its allies vital defense technology and intelligence that save lives. [16]

Some claim ending U.S. aid to Israel would help bring peace to the region. In reality, it would encourage Iran’s regime, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, and other genocidal extremists to escalate their efforts to destroy the world’s only Jewish state. This would fuel more war, with horrific results for Israelis, Palestinians, and all civilians in the region.

If Israelis are forced to fight even more destructive wars, many of the benefits Americans get every day from cooperating with Israel would disappear.

I guess water technology and clean energy aren't important if Jew hands touched them

This Guardian? Yeah no Jew-hate here.

And you get out the fucking GUARDIAN? The one writing articles about Jewish Food Imperialism in fucking LONDON?

Maybe actors with a large platform can do more research than grabbing at the fucking guardian (or like. Any other british paper because they've all sucked as regards the Jews from before WWII onward) while patting themselves on the ass for being 'one of the good ones' and lying through their fucking teeth. *Edit* to add comments from his fun fans. Look at all these compassionate, knowledgeable people!

two thoughts:

non-jewish antizionists, by definition, are saying that they think they have the authority to say where jews should and shouldn't be. to oppose jewish self-determination is to oppose jewish people having autonomy. the non-jew gets to decide where the jew should exist in a space. the jew does not get a say in the matter.

Non-Jews can be supportive of Jewish autonomy and self-determination, certainly. But that should just be so normal as to not need a label. Everyone should be supportive of the autonomy and self-determination of all people groups. To riff on what you said, who could possibly have the authority to say "no, you should always be subjugated" to anyone else?

But what we see in non-Jewish Zionists is an adoption of the term in order to portray a relationship of care for the Jewish people that almost never actually exists.

So-called "Christian Zionists," especially, do not actually care about self-determination, autonomy or even basic safety for Jews as Jews for our own sake. Their interest is their own end of days theology and getting them closer to flying away to heaven, and they believe that unflinching support of the government of the State of Israel is the best way to bring that about. It's critical to remember that in their theology, only a small remnant of Jews will get to go to heaven with them, and the rest of us will go to hell, and they're happy with that. They do not care about us at all. We are nothing but interchangeable props in their play.

(It's also not an accident that "Christian Zionism" so closely tracks with right wing authoritarian political ideology, because the objectification of population groups to use as tools for the accrual of power is inherent to authoritarianism.)

heres a post with tons of resources

MAYBE it is time to take a step back and realize that the rhetoric you're spreading, including genocide allegations, MAY need to be re-examined.

Can you explain why it is somehow the US’s right and/or responsibility to topple any regimes of any kind around the world? What about the current US regime? Should China assassinate trump to liberate Americans from the myriad human rights violations currently happening in the US? Can you explain how this time US intervention in the Middle East is going to have better results than the multiple other times in the past?

Dresden rings a bell? The firebombing of Tokyo? A little something called the atom bombs? Or how the US occupied Japan for years after the war and installed a friendly government, going so far as to have a hand in writing the current Japanese constitution?

Fantastic job completely ignoring the rest of my questions and walking face first into one of the points I questioned in that very post. So I’ll ask again:

Can you explain how it is the US’s right/responsibility to topple any kind of regime in the world?

What about the current US regime? Should China bomb the US and kill trump to “free Americans from tyranny”?

And I'm not the one desperately defending a regime funding violence against civilians for decades, both its own and all over the Middle East.

And I love that you use China here as some paragon, when they've been doing and supporting the exact same things and worse for decades. Do you think the US isn't attacked by them or others because of some moral stand? It's because the US is too militarily powerful for them to do so. It's almost as if attacking the current hegemony is not easy.

Can you explain why it is somehow the US’s right and/or responsibility to topple any regimes of any kind around the world? What about the current US regime? Should China assassinate trump to liberate Americans from the myriad human rights violations currently happening in the US? Can you explain how this time US intervention in the Middle East is going to have better results than the multiple other times in the past?

Dresden rings a bell? The firebombing of Tokyo? A little something called the atom bombs? Or how the US occupied Japan for years after the war and installed a friendly government, going so far as to have a hand in writing the current Japanese constitution?