It’s a Purr-sure to Meet You!

This is a literary analysis of what the Jiang Sect was, what it represented, and how Jiang Cheng's actions and attitude led to Yunmeng Jiang falling from what it once used to be.

The founder of the YunmengJiang Sect, Jiang Chi, was born a rogue cultivator. The ways of the sect were honest and unrestrained. Madam Yu's manners were the exact opposite. And both Jiang Cheng's looks and personality took after his mother. He hadn't even been to Jiang FengMian's liking. Since birth, he taught him in many ways, yet he still couldn't change, which was why Jiang FengMian has always seemed as though he didn't favour him too much.

(Chapter 56, ExiledRebels translation)

So. There is a lot to unpack here. First, and foremost, is the phrase, 'the ways of the sect were honest and unrestrained.' This goes with the sect motto of course, 'To attempt the impossible'. This is the way of Yunmeng Jiang, as adaptable as the water surrounding their home. They are not restrained by rules and are guided by their moral codes. They are generally the ones who have fun, who embrace the road, and are not restrained.

Lotus Pier wasn't as otherworldly as the other sects' residences, shutting their doors and refusing to let commoners come with a boundary miles away. The docks right in front of Lotus Pier entrance often bustled with vendors selling seed pods, water chestnuts and all kinds of pastries. Runny nosed children from households nearby could also sneak into Lotus Pier's fields to watch the cultivators practice their swords. They wouldn't be scolded even if they got caught either. They could even play around with the Jiang Sect's disciples.

We know servants were treated well in the Jiang Sect (I am talking about before Yu Ziyuan came there, okay!), because Wei Changze was a servant, and was Jiang Fengmian's cherished friend and right-hand man. Those of the sect aren't beholden to them forever either, as seen by Wei Changze's elopement, and Jiang Fengmian does not hold this against him, even when the subject of said elopement is his alleged romantic interest. He brings their son to Lotus Pier upon their deaths and raises him with his own children. He doesn't do it well, but he does do it. Credit where credit is due.

So, Jiang Sect treats servants well. This, undoubtedly, changes under Yu Ziyuan, who is obsessed with the social hierarchy. I have seen posts that say she isn't classist from the time she defended her maids. I have seen fics and posts that make Meishan Yu into this grand sect that doesn't care about social hierarchy. But, a matriarchal sect can also be classist.

Her issue with Wang Lingjiao's words in regard to Jinzhu and Yinzhu is that they're her servants, and she says they aren't usual servants. And then goes on to concur with servants should be what servants ought to be, glancing pointedly Wei Wuxian, who isn't even a servant himself! She is a classist, spiteful bitch, and very likely turned the entire way of treatment of servants in Jiang Sect upside down.

'Madam Yu's manners were the exact opposite'. Honest? The woman has been lying to herself and her children her whole life. Unrestrained? don't joke with me. She thought the disciples being unrestrained as them having no respect, as them bringing shame to the sect. Like, the entire point of unrestrained is that their actions are led by their hearts, right? Where the hell is the entire shame to the sect even coming in? Like, the exact opposite of the principles of the sect she was supposed to lead. How, was that suitable?

Jiang FengMian had no such intentions. He didn't like Yu Ziyuan's conduct and felt that the two wouldn't be an appropriate match. He had politely refused the offer a handful of times. However, the MeishanYu Sect set about multiple factors, putting pressure on Jiang FengMian, who was at the time still fairly young and had nothing to lean on.

(Chapter 56, ExiledRebels Translation)

Madam Yu never thought and understood that the reason why Jiang Fengmian refused her at the beginning was that he respected his ancestor's wish, the founder of YunmengJiang's wish. And the reason why their opinion had always crashed towards each other was that the way of their thinking was totally the opposites.

It was not because Jiang Fengmian deliberately refuted her words for the reason that he didn't love her. It's because all of her decisions in matters were completely the opposites of what YunmengJiang had lived as a sect since it was first founded.

'And, both Jiang Cheng’s looks and personality took after his mother. He hadn’t ever been to Jiang FengMian’s liking. Since birth, he taught him in many ways, yet he still couldn’t change, which was why Jiang FengMian had always seemed as though he didn’t favour him too much.'

Jiang Cheng never understood nor thought that the reason why his father was not as close with him was that no matter how much Jiang Fengmian tried to instil the morals and principles of a Jiang cultivator in him, Jiang Cheng who inherited the narrowminded and selfishness from his mother still failed to implement his father's hopes.

As a father, and more importantly a leader, why wouldn't he be disappointed when his heir was unable to carry the clan's essence from their ancestors?

Jiang Cheng says that Jiang Fengmian favoured Wei Wuxian because he understood the sect precepts better than him. This is partially true. Jiang Fengmian does not favour Wei Wuxian over Jiang Cheng; I have said this before. But, he would have felt pride in a disciple who thoroughly understood the sect principles, especially since Wei Ying was his friend's son and his own ward. That pride isn't wrong. Especially considering that Jiang Fengmian treats Wei Ying as an actual disciple and not his ward in serious matters. However, he may have found it easier to interact with Wei Wuxian, who actually lived up to his sect's legacy, than Jiang Cheng, who did not, and did not even want to.

However, even this does not make Jiang Fengmian dislike him as Jiang Cheng seemed to think. Because Jiang Cheng is his son, and he loves him, and even in his last minutes, wants to ensure his protection.

And where does Jiang Cheng take that legacy?

"Lotus Pier is scary? How could Lotus Pier be scary? You've been there?"

"I haven't been there myself, but I know someone who went because his house was badly haunted. But it was all bad luck. That Sect Leader Jiang was cracking a glowing whip right on the training field. The victim's flesh and blood flew as high as his screams! A servant secretly informed him that the sect leader caught the wrong person again, that he hadn't been in a great mood, and that he definitely shouldn't be irritated in any way. He was so scared that he dropped off the gifts he brought and fled at once. He never dared visit again."

I just want to note that I keep seeing this brought up as a “Gotcha!” or a winning argument that we should have all known that Jiang Cheng really cared and it should change our perspective on things. But all it really is meant to do is hammer home the tragedy of Jiang Cheng’s failings.

Narrative beats exist in every story, and Modaozushi is no different. The flashbacks offer us a deeper understanding of the present story, there is one key moment that entirely reframes the story and our perspective of a character, and of course the emotional climax of Guanyin Temple that begins with the clarity of Lan Wangji’s love and ends with Jin Guangyao and Nie Mingjue being sealed in an eternal battle of hatred. Where Jiang Cheng’s sacrifice reveal is placed is telling.

Regarding the two core reveals, we find out Wei Wuxian’s between the emotional heights of the Second Siege and Guanyin Temple, and it is a reveal to both the audience and everyone in story. Set shortly after the last flashback, it completely recontextualizes everything we thought about Wei Wuxian during the Sunshot Campaign. Why does he give up his sword? Why does he learn demonic cultivation? Why does he keep everyone at arms length and go so far to save the Wen siblings and the others in the camp? Because of this one action that he owed them so much for and can’t ever let anyone know because in the world he lived in, to have it known that he can no longer cultivate at all would invite the dogs to his door. Once you know it, you can’t look back at his actions without seeing that struggle there. Wei Wuxian as we know him becomes a different person knowing everything he did was to hide that one fact. Successfully, it doesn’t come out for almost eighteen years down the line.

Contrasting, we find out that Jiang Cheng distracted the Wens at the very end of the story. Narratively, this is not the point that is meant to recontextualize his actions as actually loving. It can’t. That’s not the point of that reveal. In story, we only find out that this one action of his happened after Wei Wuxian has turned away and let the door finally close behind him. This reveal is also set before everything else that happened, but only lets us see that Jiang Cheng once cared enough to actually do something. Him once deliberately drawing the Wens away does not make up for the following lifetime of refusing to pay any of his debts, actively turning the cultivation world against Wei Wuxian, leading the siege that killed him, and actively trying to capture and torture him through all of the present day. The reveal is not meant to tell us “Oh, but he loved him after all,” it is meant to highlight the tragedy of Jiang Cheng’s fall.

Wei Wuxian is not morally gray. He is the moral compass of the story. Reread it with an eye that is not blinded by fandom metas that want to justify others actions against him and you will notice that no action he takes in story is condemned by the narrative. He sees clear and will always act in accordance to strong morals to help people. He is more righteous than Gusu Lan, he will do the impossible where Yunmeng Jiang will not, he will let go of hatred and grudge as the Nie could not and he and the entire Jin sect except Jin Ling have always been at moral odds because every prominent Jin in the story is morally bankrupt.

(I know there’re other posts along these lines but I wanna throw in my own tidbit. This isn’t going to be JC-friendly btw,)

………………….whenever I look at canon JC, I take a moment to sit down and look at my own big brother.

It is NOT okay to ACTUALLY kill your sibling(s), there is nothing ‘natural’ about that. Even if they piss you off and drive you up the wall, it is NOT COOL to essentially 1. emotionally & verbally take them for granted their entire life, 2. gut them during a staged fight (JC could’ve just broken his arm too, golden core or not), 3. frame them for treason (saying he’s been disowned is one thing but adding that he’s now THE ENTIRE CULTIVATION WORLD’S ENEMY?? Come on), 4. torture and slaughter people who remind you of them & 5. turning their worst fear, the vulnerability they trusted you with against them.

Media portrays older siblings always having to be the protector & provider but it’s also the younger sibling’s duty to mutually respect & love their older sibling unconditionally. In a way, the younger sibling is also the protector & provider in the sense that they can positively protect/reinforce their older sibling’s emotional wellbeing & provide the healthy emotional nurturing/support they too need. Not once has JC ever given WWX that love, support or respect unconditionally. 

Just because you’re the ‘younger’ sibling, that doesn’t mean you can mistreat your older sibling. It doesn’t mean you can brush it off and it sure as hell doesn’t mean the older sibling has to either, their feelings are valid too. Abuse is STILL ABUSE, regardless of gender or age. WWX wants to be the bigger person and I respect him for that but even he himself knows damn well that how JC treated him wasn’t right and thus, cleanly cut off all ties with him.

Someone shared with me a list of reasons a CQL-only compiled for why they hated the novel, and I thought…. you know what, it’s actually the perfect vehicule to create a masterlist of refutations to accusations made by people. 

1. Nonconsensual phoenix mountain kiss: 

This one is easy because I can just link this post. But let me just quote this part:  The kiss is non-consensual because it was written to be non-consensual. mxtx is not trying to pull the wool over our eyes. The reason why we, as readers, can infer that, is because the non-consensual aspects of the kiss are important to the events of the plot, some of themes explored in the book, lwj and wwx’s relationship after wwx’s return, and lwj’s character arc. mxtx uses this moment and its aftermaths, amongst others, to make a point about consent and communication in relationships  […] isolating events in the novel like the Phoenix kiss scene to mark them as Good or Bad without considering the context in which they happen and are explored within the novel is just bad literary analysis :/.  

2. sex where lwj is drunk and thus cant consent

The narrative actually gives us signs that LWJ is actually no longer drunk by the time they have sex: however these need to be subtle and open to interpretation to both WWX (the POV character) and the reader to allow for the miscommunication that takes place next and for the reader to be more likely to buy into that conflict. 

First, let’s remember that LWJ and WWX have sex late into night, the sun is almost up, and LWJ drank around 7pm. That’s a lot of time to sober up. But that’s not the clue. See, it’s been established in the novel that LWJ has a very high pain tolerance, and that he remains stoic when faced with pain (for example when he received a punishment alongside WWX during the CR arc). However, as WWX gets lost in his thoughts when he rubs LWJ’s back, he is taken out of them by LWJ’s sudden and loud exhale. WWX thinks that the reaction is due to him hurting LWJ, but we know that’s just not something that would happen from him rubbing his skin raw. Instead, it seems more of a signal that LWJ sobered up and realised the situation they were in and was shocked, perhaps even scared of what he might have done in his inebriated state to get there. Moreover, as bigbadredpanda points out, the way LWJ acts and speaks after this moment is different from how he spoke when he was drunk. This is audible in the audiodrama, which was produced with a lot of input from MXTX. So, in short, while it was meant to be subtle so that readers could, like WWX, misinterpret the situation and buy into the ensuing conflict, the novel does suggest that LWJ was no longer drunk when they had sex. 

3. miscommunication after sex as a plot device

This feels like a Cinemasins critique where someone is just describing that a storytelling device was used. Miscommunication happened, creating conflicts and situations that advance the plot…. which is bad….. because……? Going back to the first post shared regarding the Phoenix Mountain kiss and the theme of consent, this miscommunication between wangxian after they have sex for the first time is a sort of thematic climax: it perfectly makes sense why it is there if one pays attention to themes and how they influence the conflicts that arise in the narrative. 

4. wwx’s obliviousness

You’re in luck because canon!wwx is actually not oblivious! It’s crazy what we can find hidden…. in the text of the novel 🙃!

5. the fact that it’s implied wwx is straight in his first life and gay in his second (him wondering if being gay is contagious bc he took mxy’s body)

It was a joke. Jesus Christ, people, do you really need a character to say “jk”  to get it? 

He was making light of something serious (ie, realising he was not as straight as he had thought and having to grapple with that realisation on top of his feelings towards LWJ), like he always does. In any case, even if you missed out on the tone, the novel establishes that WWX liked LWJ from the start, and himself says so in the Lotus extras. This is not even subtext.

6.going off of this…. the fact that mxy is gay and effeminate and sooo much smaller and shorter than lwj. oh and also he’s a lunatic :/

MXY is not incredibly shorter than LWJ (8 cm or 3 inches), and WWX before his death was 2 cm (not even an inch) shorter than LWJ. Fair reason to get our pitchforks out 🤷‍♂️. 

 We do not really know if MXY was actually effeminate (and in any case, MXY is not WWX), and he’s not a lunatic because he’s gay. The novel says it so textually, that it was the result of  his mistreatment and being scared off by JGY before he was sent back home in disgrace. Moreover, WWX’s performance as MXY is not him acting like he thinks MXY acted, but him weaponising the rumours about MXY. 

An aside, but I would like to challenge this fandom’s issues with the portrayal of feminine gay men that I see to be rooted in an understanding of heteronormativity that suggests that the possibility of a gay man being coded as feminine is inherently heteronormative (unless he dates another gay man who is also being coded as feminine, perhaps) as this goes against a lot of queer critiques of media which argue instead that having only depictions of gay characters that seem to fit within the heteronormative norms safe from whom they are attracted to (ie only presenting straight-passing, masc gay men) actually maintains heteronormative norms and a binary vision of gender. 

7. the stupid epilogue where they do their weird roleplay shit in public which only serves to show how mxtx thinks gay men kissing is sinful and it will corrupt little girls

😬 Okay, so…. just a quick note, if you want to portray yourself as a person who stands up for queer men and against homophobia, demonising the act of having sex in public spaces is really, really not a good look. Just…. my advice, from me to you. (google cruising + homophobia or cruising + policing if it’s still not clicking). 

Second of all, it’s kind of a bad faith representation of what takes place in that extra. Wangxian are in a public space, yes, but only insofar that they are in the woods by a burial site in the middle of the night: they believed themselves alone, for obvious reasons. Moreover, they do not imply that them kissing was sinful: when WWX say in the translation ‘we have sinned’, it is because their kissing was already moving into something a lot raunchier, let’s say, when an unsupervised kid (who they would have never expected would be in this place at this hour) happened upon them and rightfully ran away at the sight. It was not about them being men, just them doing adult things that were not meant for a child’s eyes. It is not a thinly-veiled “children must be protected from gay men” fearmongering thing since, in any case, Xiao Mianmian warms up to them by the end of their interaction. 

So I replied to this gem of a post and then got blocked by OP, because apparently if you are a Chinese person explaining why the MDZS novel does not, in fact, read homophobically to a Chinese audience, then that qualifies as “clowning”. I am very tired of non-Chinese people consuming danmei works and then shitting on them with interpretations that do not take into account Chinese cultural context, so here you go, MDZS/MXTX fandom - my take as a Chinese person as to why this is a wildly misguided reading of novel LWJ:

OP, I feel like you are levelling these accusations about the novel (and by extension its fans) partly because you are not aware of Chinese cultural context, and frankly it reads as culturally insensitive at best and extremely ignorant at worst.

The “homophobic stereotypes” that you accuse LWJ of falling into are (1) not really supported by the text to my knowledge and tbh I assume you read an English fan translation so you can’t exactly argue points with any certainty here; and (2) mostly very Western stereotypes that don’t hold the same significance in Chinese culture. 

Let’s play ball with your interpretation here - if MXTX did accidentally write a character that lines up with these stereotypes (which I truly don’t think she did, per my first point), do you realize that for Chinese audiences, MXTX did not accidentally write an “age old homophobic stereotype”..? That maybe Chinese LGBTQ+ people have legitimate reasons for liking LWJ’s character that have nothing to do with internalized homophobia? Maybe our major concerns don’t line up with yours and maybe we find comfort in novel LWJ and WWX for reasons that you, a non-Chinese person, cannot understand? Like sorry, I had no idea what the fuck you were getting at with “LWJ is an age-old homophobic stereotype” because, as a Chinese person, I treasure this novel from the bottom of my heart since it flies in the face of our age old stereotypes. I got to see gay characters that were not portrayed as mentally ill, not throwing a family/marriage into total disarray through their unfilial romance, and actually getting a happy, orthodox marriage where they effectively co-parent a kid and mentor many others. This is my list of priorities in comparison to yours - the stereotypes I was happy to see broken down vs. the ones you projected onto a translation you read.

But that is really only scratching the surface at the main problem I have with this post, which is that for some reason you think CQL LWJ is comparatively ideal representation of a gay man. While I will always appreciate the way CQL went to extreme lengths to gay-code the fuck out of the show, the reality is that CQL LWJ is the product of CCP censorship. And this is what really convinces me that you don’t have the best interests of LGBTQ+ fans at heart, or at least not the Chinese ones: you praised a characterization of LWJ that was born from actual, material oppression of LGBTQ+ people while shitting all over a character and work that many gay Chinese people find comfort in. Again, I love and appreciate CQL (and even love CQL LWJ!) but your post is extremely tone deaf when you consider the realities for Mainland Chinese people and diaspora.

I also took a look at your other posts and was unsurprised to see fujoshi discourse, which of course misused a term in a language that you do not speak, shat all over a genre that (again) many LGBTQ+ Chinese people find comfort in, and assumed that MXTX is a cishet woman just because she writes danmei. There has been a lot written by both Chinese and Japanese LGBTQ fans about how this type of discourse is misguided at best and racist at worst.

Lastly - as a bisexual, I find it biphobic that you assume WWX only ends up developing feelings for a man simply because he was summoned into MXY’s body… If you don’t see how that is a biphobic assertion, then I cannot help you.

Absolutely love the follow-up though.  I’ve read a few different posts from Chinese people talking about what they love about the novel and characters and there’s always something unique and interesting culturally to find in every one.  I’m always glad to find these posts where people so kindly share the meaning of things through their eyes.

I especially loved this part of the post:

I got to see gay characters that were not portrayed as mentally ill, not throwing a family/marriage into total disarray through their unfilial romance, and actually getting a happy, orthodox marriage where they effectively co-parent a kid and mentor many others.

Coming across a lot of arguments in favour of CQL’s portrayal of Wangxian’s “romance” or essays by people explaining how they would rewrite the romantic resolution of MDZS, it made me realise how much subtext can be a crowd-pleaser by its very nature. 

What is romantic subtext but a romantic tension that never needs to be resolved? And it seems that for many people, subtext might appeal to them more due to the very fact that it is unrealised: people are not likely to find issues with how the creatives actually decided to make the romance blossom if it remains in the bud. With romantic subtext, the narrative does not need to answer questions like: how did they realise their feelings for one another? How did they process them? How do they communicate these feelings? When? In what context? Do they become physically intimate? How? What changes (or none) happen to their relationship dynamic once they are aware of each other’s feelings? How does being in a romantic relationship shape their interactions with the rest of the characters and the world around them? What compromises and difficult decisions are they forced to make as a result of entering this romance? etc.

With subtext, the audience can project into the romantic tension between characters the resolution they want, the one that suits their personal preferences and politics (or just ignore it if they don’t like the idea of the characters being together!). It’s easier not to be disappointed, unless the audience member is solely invested in seeing the romantic tension resolved, regardless of what that resolution would be. And with shows where people are told it’s “super gay” but that they “cannot show the romantic resolution because of censorship,” it’s unlikely that the audience has expectations of seeing any textual exploration of the romance. 

In a way, it resembles the logic of the perfectionist who keeps working on something but never finishing it because they know that once the work is finalised, it will be open to judgement, by oneself and others. And it also, in an unrelated note to CQL, makes me wonder how many creatives lean into subtext because they are scared of how they could ever realise the romance in a way that would please any portion of their audience. 

When you resolve the romance, people might find a number of issues in the way it unfolds. Maybe the storytelling ends up being weak or inconsistent with the rest of the text. But it might also just be because the audience finds issues with the romance itself. Maybe they believe the declaration of love is underwhelming or, inversely, overdramatic. Maybe people will argue love does not look like that, or that one of the character is being creepy and possessive, or that they don’t actually end up acting like two people in love. Often, you’ll get to see how they are portrayed as a couple, and what their dynamic is. And because there is so much subjectivity in terms of what people prefer in terms of romance, without even mentioning the influence of how a growing number of people believe fiction should only depict (their version of) healthy relationships, or any other political/morality aspects that comes into the equation: it might feel like you’re set up to fail, in a way.

Of course, not all subtext is made equal. Some can be very intentional and “tight” in terms of themes and narrative, which makes it less likely to be interpreted a thousand different ways, but in practice most subtext is in the eyes of the beholder: if you don’t want to see it, you won’t, and if you want to see it (in the long gazes, in the chemistry between the actors, in the loyalty and friendship, etc.), you’ll see it the way you want it to be, as if the subtext were a Rorschach test.

So it makes sense to me that people have more complaints about the book’s romance than CQL’s because, in the novel, there is an actual resolution to criticise: a build-up to a declaration, clearly-explored-within-the-text misunderstandings and internal struggles regarding each other’s romantic feelings, sex scenes, a married life, compromises and a new life together, etc. People can find issues, regardless of how well-founded these criticisms are, with any aspects of the romantic resolution in text. They can be confronted in how the creative had a different vision for the resolution to the text than the one they might have created in their head. But with CQL, they can simply project the resolution they prefer and insist it is the true intention of the spaces in between the text.

I’ve read CQL fics in the past and still come across summaries of post-CQL “Wangxian getting together” fics, and I have to say that 95% of them were (to me) absolutely bland, generic (aka it could be the romantic resolution for any two characters, not specific in the slightest to Wangxian and their dynamic and journey), out of character and/or completely devoid of any interesting thematic explorations. If I had watched CQL with any of these romantic resolutions actually happening in the text, I would have critiqued this resolution to hell and back. But, once again, there is in fact in CQL no resolution, no bringing the romantic subtext forward into the text: and thus, nothing to criticise in terms of how that is resolved. The subtext romance is all potential, all possibility while the realised romance is all there for us to pick apart.

When I first watched CQL/The Untamed, I was mostly pleased by the interpretation and the extent to which it was the same as the novel I knew.  And for a while, I thought, you know, some small differences aside, it’s mostly the same.  Some CQL additions are even improvements, I thought. 

But the more time that’s passed the more GULF I see in understanding of canon and characters depending on whether someone is primarily a MDZS fan or a CQL fan.  The biggest and most important, I’ve decided, involve Wei Wuxian.  So that’s why I’ve written this meta, which is, I should say upfront, all my own opinion and interpretation and not necessarily 100% accurate.  I haven’t reread the novel just for this meta or anything.  (I’ve read it twice, plus a lot of spot-checking, plus listened to the audio drama, and watched the donghua twice and read the manhua like halfway…seriously is this the potentially most confusing fandom ever or what?)

So, let’s talk about the differences in WWX from MDZS to CQL:

1. He’s not the MoDao ZuShi.  Most commonly translated as Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, but there a lot of iffyness about that translation, so for simplicity’s sake I’m keeping it in pinyin.  What this means is that he literally invents an entirely new and UNHEARD of cultivation branch/technique.  He harnesses the resentful energy of the dead and that allows him to control fierce corpses.  NO ONE HAD EVER DONE THAT BEFORE!  He made it UP!

In CQL, of course, Wen Rouhan is using demonic cultivation way before WWX ever talks about it.  He’s the one who started using fierce corpses puppets, not WWX.  And it involves using something called Yin Iron, which are magic rocks, I guess.  The show doesn’t seem to actually know how its own magic system works, so long as they don’t get in trouble with the CN government for talking about ghosts and demons.  Or undead.

In this context, WWX is just someone who begins using the strategy and techniques of his enemy.  This makes him first of all less inventive and brilliant, but ALSO less morally culpable.  Also, we don’t really see WWX controlling puppets in the same way as Wen Rouhan in CQL.  He controls, uh, smoke monsters, I guess.  But in the novel, he’s 100% digging up and using the corpses of the dead to fight his battles.  That’s….very squicky for a lot of reasons, especially in cultural context.  He’s pretty much the epitome of someone who was so excited by the prospect that he COULD do something and he NEEDED to do something that he never stopped to ask if he SHOULD.

2. He didn’t forge the Yin Tiger Seal.  Wait.  Yes he did, you say.  Well, maybe, but it’s very much not the same.  In CQL the seal he has is just another piece of Yin metal that he turns into a seal and that somehow makes it different?  IDK.

Do CQL people have any idea how special the Seal is?  What a great undertaking it was to create?  Taking a regular old piece of metal that, THROUGH CHANCE AND TIME gained incredible levels of resentment into LITERALLY the MOST POWERFUL SPIRITUAL TOOL EVER! 

Regarding WWX’s actions at the archery portion of the PM arc, I think it is important to underline that WWX is not only acting in order to one-up JZX but that he’s taking a hit at the Jin’s arrogance being voiced through Jin Zixun. He is thus not only showing up to prove he has better skills than JZX but to undermine the Jin’s claim to supremacy in the cultivation world after they’ve grabbed unto the power vacuum left by the destruction of the Wen to make themselves the most powerful and influential sect (and reproducing problematic systemic issues through that power)

I’m not sure it is right to say that WWX “kills” JYL: one of his corpses that he cannot control does hurt her but JYL makes the decision to push WWX out of the way when a cultivator comes to attack him and he is the one who deals her a fatal blow. WWX certainly holds a lot of responsibility in her death but I am not sure that saying he killed her is completely true. 

I am not sure that WWX destroys the Yin hufu only because he fears it will fall in the wrong hands: he destroys it also because he himself never intends to use it ever again after seeing the consequences at Buyetian. He knows, since the sects have vowed to kill him, that his time is counted when it comes to being able to destroy it.

I don’t think the novel wants us to think that WWX “triggers” his tragedy, but more that the result of his actions would inevitably be a tragedy because of the society of which he is a part (something that JGY highlights at Guanyin Temple when he says that even without JZX’s presence at Qiongqi Path the sects would have found a reason to decry and hunt for WWX). He appears to be a fully active agent, but at the same time, his level of agency in his tragedy is limited.

It is also important that WWX doesn’t kill the Jin guards just for the heck of it: he gives a chance for the Jin to give the command to liberate the prisoners, and it is only when given proof of their mistreatment that he seeks revenge through WN’s resentment (commensurate revenge is often framed as justified in the novel so long as it doesn’t lead to a cycle of retribution)

While hubris is definitely a flaw of WWX, the novel does suggest that if WWX had been a sect heir or sect leader, the same fate would have probably not befallen him. In my MianMian meta series, I incidentally touch upon the fact that WWX’s “arrogance” in rescuing the Wen remnants is discussed at JinlinTai in contingence with his position as the son of a servant: His arrogance is weighted in accordance to his status. 

I am not sure that, thematically, WWX’s death at the end of his first life is a triumph. WWX arrives at point where he not only committed great ills and survived unspeakable sacrifices in order to “attempt the impossible” and following his own sense of right and wrong, but nothing as (seemingly) come out of it (something I touched upon also in my MianMian meta series). As such, I don’t see it so much as a sacrifice for his actions, but rather a last moment of moral uprightness: as the revengeful energies are unstable because of his attempts to destroy the Yin hufu and his own declining health and mental stability, he refuses to continue the cycle of retributive justice and gives his life to protect the very people who have come to slaughter him and the people he was protecting. 

https://bctgm.org/2021/10/08/5-ways-to-support-the-kelloggstrike/

Kellogg’s is so big that “don’t buy their products” is virtually impossible, not to mention not possible for many individuals and families who can’t afford anything else. Not to mention that it is not a strategy the union is asking you to use.

That’s right- the union and the strikers are NOT asking for a boycott.

(If demand for products keeps going at its usual rate, but there is no one creating a supply, that creates building pressure on the Company to actually be forced to listen to the union in order to be able to meet the demand.)

According to the link above, here are the union’s ACTUAL requests:

Sign their petition.

Join a picket line or drop off food/supplies at one.

Send a solidarity letter.

Donate to a Strike Fund.

Help spread the word on social media.

Notice how “don’t buy Kellogg’s products” is NOWHERE on this list.

The link above does include things like a link to the petition, lists of picket lines in need of support, address lists to send support letters, and links to Strike Funds that need help.

The boilerplate “don’t buy their stuff” doesn’t help anyone, and doesn’t help the union or the strikers. In fact, it’s sometimes the opposite- if enough people go around claiming that the strikers want a boycott, the company can use that at the negotiating table to say that the strikers are in “bad faith”, and refuse to talk, or worse, try to use it to fire them.

Whenever there is a strike, find out what that PARTICULAR union wants as help. Now, it might actually be a boycott. But the union & the strikers will tell you that. I know this goes against popular preconceived notions about “what a strike is” and “how a strike works”, but in most cases, it will NOT be a boycott.

And in this case of the Kellogg’s strike, it is definitely not.

Keep buying the products. It’s putting pressure on Kellogg’s that a solution needs to be found.

Donate to Strike Funds, write letters of support, drop off food at picket lines. Make posts on social media about how reprehensible you think it is that the company would rather hire scabs than listen to their employees and treat them with dignity.

The best way to support any strike is to listen to what the strikers want you to do, and then do that.

Obligatory plug for the IWW union, “Industrial Workers of the World”, iww.org

You do not have to be an industrial worker to join it, or even employed at all. If you have a union to join, go for it! Or check out this one too. Unions are a great power- if they weren’t, companies and corporations wouldn’t be fighting against them tooth and nail.

She told me that story after a man came in and asked for when an employee, who recently quit, would be coming in. I told him she doesn’t work here anymore and he said to me “Okay, well I’m her dad so if you see her tell her I’ll be across the street at the gas station.” He left and my boss IMMEDIATELY came out and scolded me for it, then told me that story.

She gave me some advice on what to say or do in that situation:

Don’t just deny knowing anything, deny the person asking. Example, “When is ____ coming in?” “You can’t know that information.” or “Can you tell me when ____’s shift is?” “Schedules are only for employees.” Additionally, saying “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” can usually work, it may piss them off but it can work.

Continue on with the customer service. “I can’t help you with that, do you need help (with clothes, finding a product, ordering)?” or “Can I take your order?/Can I help you find (a product)?”

If they persist, insist they leave the store. “If you’re not going to order, please leave the building.” or “I can’t help you, have a nice day.” and, if you can, leave. If you can’t leave, call for or help the next customer.

If they still persist (by now they may be aggressive), threaten to call the police on the basis of them becoming aggressive and refusing to leave the premises. Some people will leave at that point, others stay. When the police get there, explain the situation but still do NOT confirm the existence of the employee they’re looking for to the police until they have been escorted out of the area.

Regardless of if the customer know the employee’s name, description, or daily (not hourly) schedule, even if they look like the same race and claim to be family, you NEVER confirm the employee’s existence.

The only exceptions are if the employee tells you themself they’re expecting someone to come in for them (ASK FOR A DESCRIPTION OF THE PERSON), and if you personally know who they are in relation to the employee. When anyone I know has to come in because I asked them to come in, I describe what they look like and what they usually wear. I go into deep descriptions, even including how they walk.

If youre in the US it is against federal law to give out anyones personal information (this includes numbers, names, and schedules) without writen and signed permission.

The reason why a lot of Yiling Laozu!JC, Yiling Laozu!JYL, & Yiling Laozu!LWJ fics fall flat is more than the fact that the characters just don’t have the same range as Wei WuXian but also we have to think about the story implications.

The Yiling Patriarch, at its heart, is a person standing up against injustice and genocide. To be the Yiling Laozu you have to be willing to become the most hated person in the entire world if it means keeping refugees safe. It’s not just about sorcery and necromancy, there’s an actual moral point attached to the title by the narrative.

Lan WangJi is against the genocide, but at that point in the story he’s stuck in a hard place about the rules/laws/morals set out by society, what’s truly right and what is wrong, and his love for Wei WuXian. Even if he was able to create demonic cultivation, we have to think about how his background/life in the Lan Sect would affect his version of the Yiling Patriarch.

Yanli is never shown to have an opinion about the Wens, so we would have to look at how she deals with the other conflicts in her life. The Yiling Patriarch is willing to kill to make sure innocents stay safe; Yanli is not the type of person who would engage in a manner like that. She much prefers trying to smooth things out- which in a lot of cases doesn’t really solve the issue- and have a simple life.

Jiang Cheng is all for genocide. He at his core is the antithesis to the Yiling Laozu. To be the Yiling Laozu you mustn’t care about others opinions of you, you must want to do the right thing, not because you will look good, but because it’s the right thing to do. Jiang Cheng throughout the story is shown that he will not help innocents, is most definitely willing to kill innocents, and will not even help the people under his jurisdiction if he finds it’s not advantageous enough or worth his time. There’s a reason why his canon title is the Master of Ignorance, Hatred, and Greed.

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Anyway, I’m really just talking at this point. Opinions?

More like realizing Jiang Fengmian is not as bad of a parent as people claim and Yu Ziyuan is way worse than most people want to admit.

Jiang Fengmian: Attempts to teach Jiang Cheng that he needs better control of his temper and to not say things in pure anger as he will regret it later. [Canonically he DOES too]

Yu Ziyuan: Walks in and turns it into about Jiang Fengmian favouring Wei Wuxian and that Wei Wuxian is the worst thing to happen to the family. Claims Wen Chao would not kill Jin Zixuan and Lan Wangji but also “it’d mean that they ran out of luck” if they did WHAT THE FUCK WOMAN DON’T YOU WANT YOUR DAUGHTER TO MARRY JIN ZIXUAN? ISN’T HIS MOTHER A DEAR FRIEND OF YOURS? I guess fucking not if you are okay with him dying.

(We also very much so know Wen Chao would have killed those two and everyone else because he’s a spoiled brat who never has to deal with consequences and firmly believes in Wen Sect’s superiority)

She also turns things into saying Jiang Cheng isn’t treated well by Jiang Fengmian but I don’t see more than Jiang Fengmian not being that good at communicating with Jiang Cheng and Jiang Cheng suffering under how his mother has been gaslighting him his entire life which has built him to be full of insecurities.

Jiang Fengmian at worse is a Bumbling Dad; he means well but he’s not that good at communicating with Jiang Cheng. Yu Ziyuan on the other hand is 100% abusive to everyone in her family + Wei Wuxian. I am not getting over how in the first chapter she’s introduced she snaps at Jiang Yanli just for being affectionate with Wei Wuxian. We don’t see much of that dynamic but oh boy the implications given in the novel are not kind at all…

Lotus Seed Pod extra reveals Yu Ziyuan whipping Wei Wuxian was a regular occurrence and yes she was using Zidian, a spiritual weapon, as a tool of punishment on him. Stop excusing her because she’s a woman, she is not a good person even though she’s shown some complexities.

Characters can be complex and still bad guys. Women can be terrible people too. Women can be abusers too.