Falling feels like flying

We all keep joking the tumblr fandom would fit on a bus

would it tho???

i wanna keep headcount of all the pigeons!

Please reblog from only ONE of your blogs!

(this ended up getting too long, so there is more bellow the cut)

One thing I struggle with understanding is why Nora thought it necessary to include the whole Proust thing. I get that Riko's threat is necessary to get Neil to Evermore and it's also a way to show Neil's character growth and how much he is willing to sacrifice for Andrew. But why make it so that Neil's sacrifice was in vain? I don't see how Andrew getting assaulted by Proust furthers the plot or the characterization. It's just another retraumatizing experience for Andrew which seems narratively unnecessary to me. And we already know that Riko is cruel so that decision doesn't paint him in a new way.

I know some people criticize AFTG (especially the new trilogy) for being trauma porn and I don't agree usually but in this instance I'm struggling to see a narrative purpose. What do you think?

Hi there,

Thank you so much! I love AFTG & its narrative structure, parallels, themes, characters, relationships, etc.,. I do think it’s a lot better written than some readers suggest it is. Of course, AFTG isn’t flawless. No book is, and there is definitely aspects of AFTG to be critiqued. (I also think it’s important for people to reflect on what books they consider to be “high-brow literature” and WHY they or society considers certain works to be “classics” versus other works as “trashy.” And whose works often get to be considered “classy and influential” and whose works are considered “trashy and garbage.” As well as reflecting on who the intended audience for those works are).

i agree with all of this but also i think noras intention with proust was to emphasize neils habit of not thinking about how his actions will bring rikos wrath down on others, like with seth (and also the ravens fans trashing the cars but thats less relevant here because rikos not directly involved). after neil and riko get in a fight at the banquet, riko tells neil “you just cost him something he didn’t want to lose” which implies that until neil picked a fight, riko had planned to honor the fact he said it wouldnt happen if neil went to the nest. he only went back on it when neil got violent because riko is vindictive and sees the fight as neil not knowing his place

it feels shitty to say but if you lay the blame on neil for seth and the cars for being the igniting force despite them being another persons actions, then in this case is neil is also the igniting force for proust

I do actually think that the Proust assault was narratively necessary for Andrew and Neil's relationship, which as we know is the thing that ultimately saves both Andrew and Neil.

on roland: oh how i hate when people try to frame his relationship with andrew as a good thing for andrew and I've seen it happen. i agree that andrew most likely approached him first but roland should have immediately turned him down. roland will always be a creepy weirdo to me there's this fic i read ages ago called one more time (with feeling) it's a time travel fic andreil in their 30s are sent back to the beginning of the tfc and have to relive past events and in chap 8 there's this exchange:

“Okay,” Neil replied with a shrug. “I forgot how old Roland was.”

“What do you mean?” Andrew asked, though the bleak twist of his stomach gave him a hint. He crawled on the bed, not making Neil move as he crawled over him to his spot against the wall.

“He’s in his late twenties. When we were that age, we were both pro, with our own apartments and multi-million dollar contracts. We weren’t hooking up with high schoolers.”

Neil’s words hit Andrew like an exy ball to the gut. “I chose him,” Andrew said shortly, staring directly at the ceiling above him.

Neil exhaled loudly, rolling over to turn off the light and plunging them into darkness. “I know you did,” he said, somehow sounding sincere when he should sound patronizing. “This isn’t about you. You did nothing wrong.”

“Then why are we talking about this.”

“I guess I just have a question,” Neil finally said, rolling back over to face Andrew, his eyes soft in the faint moonlight. “Were you still attracted to high schoolers when you were a pro?”

Andrew stopped being attracted to high schoolers years before he graduated college. “Go to sleep, Neil.”

and like yeah

in my mind post canon andrew doesn’t think of roland or speak to him again

there is a fic where the foxes including aaron and nicky listen to andreil have sex and I'd like to scrub it from my brain it actually made me a little nauseous

there's also discussing andreils sex life, betting on them in regards to sexual things, things like where neil walks in to the locker room and they pass over money to each other or make weird comments, neil tells them he doesn't want them asking about his and andrew's sex life and they continue to discuss things about him and andrew privately like jfc what kind of friends are you?

oh i actually hate that i thought i was overreacting for finding those moments weird in fanfic why would neil be comfortable around people who all want to fuck him and keep commenting on his body. do you think it'd make him feel gross knowing they we're all looking at him this way? do you think he'd have issues with people thinking of him like that almost in a way like andrew is but in relation to his demisexuality?

allison neil besties has always confused me as does Katelyn neil it might be harsh but i prefer fics where he just doesn't care about her that's really just canon neil lol

but if the story is good, I'll go meh whatever and let it go

that bit about people treating andreil like a fanon ship where shippers are reading into every interaction was very interesting its definitely not a take ive seen before because like you said people don't really view any moment pre edens confession as romantic and I've absolutely seen "neil didn’t mean it that way" posts a lot

Im sorry if some of what im saying is coming out strangely its like 4:34 rn lol my brains scrambled

anyway thanks for sharing! I really like your writing :)

bye! :p

Hi there,

Anyway, Roland I don’t think was written to be or initially considered by the author to be purposefully predatory. He’s basically a product of the time AFTG was written & the attitudes surrounding consent in that time period. The in-universe explanation of his character is that of someone who doesn’t think of themselves as a “bad guy” or “predatory” but also thinks it’s okay to sleep with willing minors as long as it’s “technically legal (again ignoring Andrew never being sober/illegally working in a bar) he would never view himself as having “taken advantage of a vulnerable person” [also just to add: I don’t agree with readers who say Andrew at 17 wasn’t a “vulnerable person” just b/c Andrew as a character would hate being called vulnerable/not consider himself vulnerable or b/c he frequently got into fights & had enough bad experiences to “know better.” Some people argue that trauma forces kids to “grow up faster” but trauma is just as likely to stunt developmental growth, it doesn’t kick-start maturity. A traumatized 17-year-old is, I would argue, is more vulnerable than a well-adjusted 17-year-old from a loving home.

Andrew at 17: spent 13 years in the Foster Care system at 13 different homes (that’s basically a new home every year). The Spear House that Andrew moved into at 12 was his 13th house.

He was sexually abused at 4 different foster homes from between the ages of 7-13. We have some hints that at 7 Andrew breaks his leg & arm, causing him to bed-ridden and this is when Steven made him say please. We aren’t given the exact ages of when Andrew was assaulted by Jesse (who also choked Andrew) or Samuel (who would call Andrew a whore/tell him he wanted it/liked it) but we can assume it happened between the ages of 8-12. Then, obviously we know about Drake from ages 12-13 who tortured Andrew with a knife & also tickled him to make him laugh. While Andrew’s other homes were not sexually abusive, Andrew says none of them were ‘good’ so we can assume all of them were in some way spanning from neglectful to emotionally/physically abusive. From 12-13 Andrew was self-harming in order to feel some semblance of control over his body - and I’ve noticed some ppl say that Andrew’s self-harm wasn’t “that bad” b/c his motivation was to “survive not kill himself” to which I say (a) a lot of people self-harm b/c they want to feel in-control not b/c they want to kill themselves and (b) Andrew was 12 and being sexually abused let’s not pretend his severe mental health issues are actually rational thinking. Having the need to feel like you need to re-claim your body from sexual abuse at the age of 12, as a literal child, via self-harm is Not Good.

Then at 13, he was funneled from foster care into juvenile detention - which is prison for children, and has detrimental impacts on children’s well being & development. Andrew is in juvie from March 2000 to March 2003 based on the time line given to us in AFTG (he went to juvie in March & was there for 3 years). When thinking of Andrew in juvie it’s important to picture him as he would be at the ages he was there: 13, 14, 15, and 16 (Andrew celebrates his 14th, 15th, and 16th birthdays in juvie) and not as an Adult Man. (This might help ppl who write fanfic/meta based on Andrew in juvie or Andrew/Neil meeting in juvie: unless you are aging up the characters, it’s important to scale down from Andrew as he is written at 20 vs Andrew as he ought to be as an early-to-mid adolescent. The boy is 14, not an army vet). Nora has said juvie was better for Andrew than his foster homes b/c there were (a) no sexual predators and (b) the guards weren’t physically abusive and (c) he stops self-harming (self-harming can be addictive, as well, but in juvie it’d be harder to maintain the addiction - we don’t know when Andrew started smoking I think, but he could’ve reasonably replaced self-harm with cigarettes, it’s a lot easier to replace one addiction with another) he learns to play Exy - and is made goalkeeper b/c the coach thought he’d be less likely to harm other players this way. Despite these positives, let’s not get confused, Andrew was literally in baby prison from the ages 13-16. That’s what juvie is, it’s not boarding school or a hospital to help troubled children, it’s prison for children. It accomplishes as much ‘rehabilitation’ as American prisons for adults does. It’s also implied that while Andrew had some good experiences in juvie (accepting he was gay & kissing a boy consensually for the first time) this is also where Andrew learned how to fight, so it wasn’t a place completely without violence (also even adolescent “prisoners” [children] in juvie can be placed into solitary confinement for causing fights, be shackled if behaving violently, can be pepper sprayed if behaving violently, and be strip-searched for weapons so while Nora says the guards weren’t sexually or physically abusive b/c Higgins helped get Andrew into a “good” juvenile detention, any juvenile detention is, like I said, prison for children and would realistically function like a prison for children) [we are also told both that Andrew ‘narrowly avoided a second-term’ and was then ‘released on early parole’: we can read this as Andrew initially behaving as violently as possible (likely to avoid being released back to the Spears) & then started behaving at 15 so he could be released to the Minyards after he met with Luther & Aaron and noticed Aaron was being physically abused + when Luther confirmed he convinced Tilda to take Andrew & promised Andrew that he would ensure the Spears couldn’t foster any more children]. While it was nice of Nora to not make Andrew’s time in juvie another Absolutely Terrible Period of Andrew’s life, realistically it wouldn’t have been sunshine & roses.

In March 2003, at 16, Andrew is released released from juvie to his biological mother - who is an addict & physically abusive - after 5 months of living with her, he risks killing himself in a ‘car accident’ to save Aaron from her abuse: Andrew at this point is not a master criminal and his plan was to literally… cause a head-on collision, after allowing himself to get beaten by Tilda to show Luther & Maria that Tilda was being abusive to Aaron Andrew must have realized, even wearing his seatbelt, there was a chance of (a) him dying alongside Tilda or (b) Tilda somehow surviving despite not wearing HER seatbelt and then telling the police Andrew tried to kill her. Or (c) Tilda dies but Andrew still gets caught b/c given Andrew’s criminal record + being abandoned to the foster care system the fact that his mother ends up dead not even within half-a-year of him living with her is, well… Suspicious. Thankfully, none of those things happen, but Andrew’s relationship with Aaron is unfortunately ruined (apparently they had a “wary but chatty” relationship prior to Tilda’s death).

Nicky tells us he returns to Columbia the day of Tilda’s funeral and convinces his parents to let him have custody of the twins (and Luther co-signs on Nicky’s house in Columbia: I wonder if it’s the same house Tilda & Aaron & Andrew were already living in or a new house - are we told this?). The time-line is pretty tight here: Nicky tells us Andrew sent Aaron to pretend to be him at Andrew’s “study session” and 5 months from March would be August, so Andrew & Aaron would have just returned to school as Juniors (I am assuming Andrew also finished his sophomore year at Macon), so what a wonderful start to the school year. Listen: I know Andrew doesn’t feel guilt for killing Tilda (she had it coming) but regardless of guilt, deliberately murdering someone is going to impact a teenager’s psyche. Especially if Andrew did it for Aaron (b/c he promised to protect him) and Aaron… (a) doesn’t believe Andrew did it for him, thinks Andrew did it himself and (b) resents Andrew for it & mourns his mother. Andrew got himself hopeful about this, it was going to be him & Aaron against the world, and then everything was ruined. One more hit to the psyche, another confirmation that it’s stupid to want & Andrew’s never going to have a human bond with someone.

Back to Andrew’s newest family dynamic at 16: Nicky (who he doesn’t really know yet and is probably not all inclined to trust after his interactions with Luther + Tilda & being burned by Aaron: biological family is proving to be just as shit as foster families) and Aaron (who he is now in a cold war with as both of them feel betrayed by one another: 16-year-old Andrew legitimately thought Aaron was going to appreciate him killing Tilda and instead gets… the opposite reaction). Nicky get’s a job at Sweetie’s & get’s Andrew clean by… locking him in the bathroom (and I’m assuming afterwards Andrew & Aaron make their new deal regarding outsiders for Andrew’s protection so Aaron doesn’t immediately start hanging out with people who do drugs again… despite their cold war. Andrew who is upset about Aaron not believing him when he promised to protect Aaron from Tilda is immediately trying to make him more promises: this unfortunately reeks of loneliness & desperation).

Nicky, for whatever reason, lets Andrew lock Aaron in the bathroom to detox. And listen, I don’t hate Nicky, and yes it was wonderful of Nicky to abandon his life in Germany to take care of (thing 1) cousin he didn’t know and (thing 2) cousin who was undoubtedly homophobic to him - and Nicky himself was very, very young, only a boy himself when he returns to America (20 I believe), but Nicky’s “parenting style” was permissive & enabling: more of a “cool and lax older brother” than actual parenting. Definitely better than Luther & Tilda but I sometimes see Fanon!Nicky as like “a father-figure” when that definitely wasn’t the dynamic going on in the Minyard-Hemmick household.

Nicky, in AFTG, also describes sober!Andrew as “soulless” and Neil suspects Nicky (and Aaron) to be afraid of Andrew sober… based on their memories of the last time they saw Andrew sober when he was 16-17. I’m sure Andrew at 16 may have cultivated this image on purpose - he was already convincing himself it was better to be thought of as “predator” than “prey” (which is why he initially starts wearing the armbands to cover his self-harm scars b/c he’s worried that if someone recognizes that he’s depressed (or in Andrew’s minds “thinks he’s depressed” b/c Andrew seems a little bit in-denial about having depression) they’re going to think he’s easy to take advantage of) and better to be “monster” than “human” but also being 16 and your newest guardian is… visibly afraid of you is not great. It’s going to encourage Andrew to continue feeling numb/refuse to engage with life or his emotions: he got out of juvie with some hopeful expectations of how his new life as “Andrew Minyard” was going to go and it’s going… pretty shit tbh (when Andrew talks about the “dangers of hope/want” he’s not just referring to Cass he’s also referring to Aaron - thankfully, his relationship with Aaron CAN be repaired). Nora once described Andrew in high school as believing he’s perceived as “only capable of ruining other people’s lives.” And sure, Andrew wanted to be seen as scary but now it’s the only thing people see of him. Nicky, to his credit, also seems to be afraid for Andrew b/c Nicky himself also has experienced being suicidal and was possibly able to see a shade of that in Andrew’s apathetic behaviour: Andrew may not be actively trying to kill himself but according to Nora, prior to Neil he isn’t interested in living either (“passively suicidal” I would say, since he’s literally just… waiting to die) & Nicky genuinely wants Andrew to be happy and have a good life. But there’s also a Canonical reason that Andrew resents Abby and I think their EC convo when Abby finds out about Andrew’s self-harm scars sums it up: You’ve heard what they say about me, and you believe at least some of it. Oh, it’s so boring when you try to lie. I see it in the way you look at me. *Andrew would be 18 for this conversation. Andrew wants to be perceived as scary to deter threats & simultaneously resents ppl for being scared of him. People, especially teenagers, are inherently contradictory so I think it makes sense for him. In Andrew’s mind it’s better to be predator than prey but neither of those options get to be human (the reason Andrew gets along with Bee is b/c Betsy is never afraid of Andrew, she views him as he is: human. Also when he talks to Wymack before signing Andrew seems curious that Wymack (a grown man twice the size of Andrew) isn’t afraid of him: Wymack’s POV also gives us more insight to the Andrew-Nicky-Aaron dynamic, which is as Andrew asserts: Nicky may be his & Aaron’s guardian, but they listen to ANDREW, not the other way around. While I’m sure this control feels great for Andrew, it’s, uh, still not giving Andrew any parental guidance in his life).

From May 2004-onward Andrew is forcibly medicated & is now legally required to go to therapy. We know Andrew had 12 therapists prior to Betsy (which is practically a new therapist every 1-2 months, it’s basically the speed-run of Andrew being passed around from foster home to foster home). None of these therapists are good or helpful for Andrew.

Nicky says Andrew’s high school guidance counsellor believes the medication “saved” Andrew’s life based on how Andrew acted in his junior vs senior years of high school & Nicky at this point in the time line also believes the medication is “helping” Andrew (b/c the medication makes Andrew laugh (and none of these ppl know how being forced to laugh is a trigger for Andrew b/c he was tickled during his CSA) to them Andrew seems happy & he isn’t having angry outbursts anymore!) We, the readers, know better. Andrew’s medication is horrible for him: it makes him permanently manic, he cannot concentrate properly (constantly fidgeting & unable to drive his own fucking car - like sure it’s a bit of a joke that Andrew’s car is basically a joke b/c he killed Tilda in a car crash but having his own car also gives Andrew freedom to have his own escape route if necessary - Andrew also cannot regulate or process his emotions or his trauma on his medication: it basically had Andrew living in a haze).

Andrew hates being medicated. He tells Wymack in the EC that he tried going sober 6 times (even if that technically violated his parole) and failed. 6 times from May 2003 to when Wymack tries to recruit him, say around winter of 2004. Say he’s trying once a month for 6 months, or twice a month for 3 months - and I guess it’s through this trial & error that Andrew eventually learns he cannot be “sober” but he can avoid being as high as his medication forces him to be if he takes dust & drinks alcohol when he misses a dose (but even that only holds Andrew off for so long before he needs the pills again). Part of the reason Andrew signs with Wymack is b/c Wymack agrees Andrew can miss dosages on game nights & even though Andrew is extremely sick after game nights from missing said doses & Andrew hates being sick & is anger at everyone for being sick, he would rather be sick & angry than fucking high. From May 2003 - until November 2003 when Andrew is desperately trying to experiment with his pills to see if he can be less high Andrew is still 17. (Wymack calls Andrew a fucked-up druggie in the scene I mentioned above (and Andrew is 18 then b/c it’s after November 2003) and yeah, that’s just the way Wymack talks and I admittedly laughed, but also Andrew is not a fucked-up druggie by choice). I imagine having to accept being medicated & then actually experiencing the effects of the medication & then trying and failing to combat said effects was a blow to Andrew. The medication is not something Andrew can physically or mentally fight.

Anyway, it’s these details & history that make Andrew Minyard a “vulnerable member of society” and someone who is actually MORE vulnerable to having his need for human connection & validation & personal autonomy be taken advantage of than someone WITHOUT his background and experiences. Andrew so badly wants to be seen as “scary” as not “prey” like how children are prey, that he forgets he is still only a teenage boy in high school. “Andrew knows what rape looks like! He wouldn’t let anything happen he didn’t want” (a) Andrew is fucking high (b) Andrew knows what VIOLENT rape looks like (c) even if Andrew wants to reclaim his body autonomy, which makes sense considering his mental autonomy has just been ripped away from him that doesn’t mean the way Andrew goes about it is actually giving him body autonomy. He has to hand-cuff Roland. Despite his situationship with Roland lasting until the end of his teenage years, Andrew STILL cannot handle being touched (cannot ever handle Roland touching him b/c if Andrew had to hand-cuff him once that meant a verbal no wasn’t strong enough for Roland, and what if Andrew releases him from the cuffs & says “you can touch me here” but Roland touches him somewhere else/doesn’t stop if Andrew changes his mind and somehow overpowers Andrew) and despite this lack of trust Andrew just… accepts this is as good as it’s going to get. That there’s no point in wanting anything better (this is why Neil is his pipe dream, why he can progress so much farther in his sexuality with Neil who proves time and time again that a verbal no enough to stop Neil in his tracks, & moreover that Neil isn’t going to do anything without a verbal yes. It’s not enough to say no but you should also be saying yes.) That’s what I mean when I say not only was Andrew/Roland stagnant it also reinforced negative beliefs Andrew had about himself & what he deserved. Maybe this isn’t what Nora intended by her narrative, but this is where we end up]. Anyway, back to why Roland wouldn’t consider himself as someone who had taken advantage of a vulnerable person even after finding out what Drake did to Andrew: b/c what Drake did that’s force that’s violence and during that time period that’s what rape/sexual assault was thought to be (when someone needed to “prove” that they were raped by supplying evidence that they “fought back” b/c how else can you prove you weren’t willing?), with little regard given to the more subtle forms of sexual violence: power imbalance, intoxication, coercion, etc.,. A lot of people during the early 200-s (and even now) didn't think it counted as SA if it's from a SO b/c or if a SO begs until a 'no' becomes a 'yes'. SA was a stranger in the park with a knife not a college man telling his high school girlfriend she's "old enough to lose her virginity" and "there's nothing to be nervous about." Sex Education was pretty bad particularly Sex Education around consent was not good back then. And unfortunately for Nora, when she was writing, a lot of media had this attitude as well, and minor/adult relationships (including ones that would actually be illegal such as student/teacher) were pretty popular: Pretty Little Liars, Gossip Girl, Riverdale… I mean unfortunately even Queer as Folk had Justin in high school at 17 vs Brian being 29, someone before mentioned Call Me By Your Name which has Elio at 17 and Oliver at 24. Frankly, it’s only relatively recently with the Me Too Movement & Epstein & ppl noticing strong patterns of particularly famous men who are 40+ and always seem to be dating barely-legal girls and realized hey maybe there’s a problem here.

I don’t think Nora intended for Roland to be QUITE as creepy, I think maybe he was meant to be Andrew’s “building block” to Neil (as she wanted Andrew to have SOME experience prior to Neil), and while she did acknowledge he wasn’t exactly “appropriate” I don’t think it was intended to be quite as predatory as it narratively ends up being. That’s kind of where you get into the question of authorial intent vs narrative outcome (how the writer INTENDS for something to be perceived vs how the readers ACTUALLY perceive it). In the same way Nora never intended for her characterizations of Thea & Nicky to be racist or for AFTG to be anti-Asian considering all the villains are canonically Japanese and all the heroes are canonically white (and yes Nora supports fan!casts of the Foxes that are more racially diverse, but when she shared the actors/actresses she initially envisioned as potentially actors/actresses to play the Foxes… practically everyone was white. The Foxes, unless other specified (i.e., Nicky) were canonically written to be white, which is important when analyzing the texts for how canonical white characters vs canonical characters of colour (Black, Asian, Hispanic) are treated.

She evidently feels remorse for this, particularly the racism, and has acknowledged it and you can see in Jean’s trilogy that she’s trying to fix these issues by adding more characters of colour and having the text specifically point out how racism effects how these characters are treated by those around them (which is good - growth is good - I love AFTG and I’m not arguing that it should be thrown into the trash b/c it has problematic elements. AFTG was written by a human and all humans have their biases. As long as we're all unlearning our biases and improving). And while Nora hasn’t acknowledged Andrew/Roland since, I believe, 2019, Jean’s trilogy definitely addresses power imbalances in age-gap relationships (such as when Jeremy says even if 16-year-old Jean had pursued the 20-year-old Ravens they should have rejected him on the basis of their age. When the Trojans are horrified to realize Jean was 16 and he’s the one being blamed for “seducing Ravens” versus the Ravens in their early-20s not getting any flack for… having sex with a teenage boy.

The last thing we know about Andrew & Roland time-line wise is that in August 2007 (after Aaron’s trial) Roland gifts Andrew/Neil a pair of padded hand-cuffs. Nora said Roland was “well-intentioned” with his gift (maybe he really is just a fucking idiot b/c at this point the man is 26 and thinks padded-handcuffs are a GOOD GIFT to give a rape victim after they’ve been forced to testify at court about their rape so their twin brother doesn’t go to prison for murder - like, learn to read the room). Roland says in the note that he’s “happy that Andrew finally found someone who will stick with him” (Nora also says Roland never liked Andrew as more than a FWB and never wanted a real relationship with Andrew but also this note seems a bit backhanded - maybe the man really just has only marbles in his head). Andrew is furious at the gift and cracks a window when he throws them. He see’s the hand-cuffs as insulting his relationship to Neil (not that Roland knows that Neil is allowed to touch Andrew) but Andrew is offended, anyway. I think Nora implies that Andrew doesn’t return to Eden’s Twilight until he’s calmed down enough not to have an angry outburst at Roland & Andrew never tells Roland how much the gift upset him: I’m assuming, based on how Andrew is with ppl who he feels wronged by, that Andrew just… permanently a lot colder to Roland.

Except the "them" that Andrew is afraid of turning into isn't Drake. Andrew is terrified of being like Cass.

We all know that Andrew hates Cass so ardently partly because he also loves her so much. He's scared of allowing himself to want so desperately, and he's filled with self-loathing at the suffering that he's willing to endure to keep Cass.

But he also hates her because she failed to protect him. She unwittingly used love as bait to capture Andrew and hold him down, while allowing him to be harmed beyond measure.

Andrew's moral compass, the way that he loves, and (at points) his very reason for living are all built around being the exact opposite to Cass.

It's why Andrew has himself thrown into juvie to keep Aaron from being in the same room as Drake. Andrew refuses to be the loved one that lures Aaron to Drake, refuses to let Aaron's wish for a family be the thing draws Aaron to harm.

It's why Andrew won't stop shaking at Thanksgiving until he can see that Aaron is alright, until he knows that running into the room with a weapon out of love for Andrew isn't what put Aaron in Drake's path.

It's why he kills Tilda. He will not stand by and watch someone hurt the people under his protection, even though the person doing the hurting is his own blood.

It's why he protects Nicky. He won't let Nicky's love for Andrew - Nicky's insistence on raising him and Aaron - be the thing that damages Nicky.

It's why he protects Kevin and why he protects Neil. To be that person, that safe person who uses himself as the bait that keeps them there, while refusing to let anyone touch them.

Andrew loves with his whole heart. But people miss it because the way that he expresses love is calibrated to be the exact opposite of the way that Cass loved him. Don't you think that Andrew wishes that Cass had loved him like this, too? That she had shadowed him, monitored him, fiercely controlled who came near him? Violently extracted all of the secrets that he was keeping from her, bullishly inspected his scars? Threatened to stab and hit until one single glare was enough to make everyone stop?

LEFT CHEEK — Lighter burn x2, multiple strikes to the burns after, cleaver cuts to the burns.

[Lola] pressed the lighter to his cheek.

[Lola] dug her fingernails into his raw skin just to make him cry out again.

[Lola] held fast to Neil so Romero could crush the lighter to his face once more. Lola's strangling grip on his throat meant the best Neil could manage was a pained whine.

Lola considered Neil again, then smacked his burned face as hard as she could.

Nathaniel braced himself for the inevitable blow, but his knees still buckled when Nathan punched the burns on his cheek. Nathan caught him by his throat as he fell.

Nathan put [the dull axe] to Nathaniel's neck next so he could carve shallow lines in Nathaniel's burned face with his cleaver.

RIGHT CHEEK — Knife cuts x2 (likely similarly placed wounds)

Lola wound her arm around the back of his chair so she could hold her knife to the right side of his face. The blade cut a paper-thin line from his mouth to the corner of his eye.

Heat ate a fierce line through his [left] cheek as he retreated right into Lola's waiting knife…He twisted his head out of her reach and remembered her knife too late. He tore a second line down his cheek and hurriedly hunched forward instead.

THROAT — Scar from throat to collarbone, sharp cleaver to the throat.

It started at the base of his throat, a looping scar curving down over his collarbone.

[Nathan] must have just sharpened [the cleaver], because blood welled up almost immediately…A fist to the face killed his next attempt and then Nathan was sitting on top of him with his cleaver to Nathaniel's throat.

CHEST — Bullet scar near collarbone, knife cut to chest, long knife cut to chest.

A pucker with jagged edges was a finger-width away [from the looping collarbone scar], courtesy of a bullet that hit him right on the edge of his Kevlar vest…[Andrew’s] right thumb found the puckered flesh from a bullet.

Riko pressed the knife to Neil's chest and slipped the edge under his skin.

Lola dodged, but barely, and left a hot stripe up his chest with the tip of her blade.

LEFT SHOULDER — Roadburn scar from shoulder to navel.

A shapeless patch of pale skin from his left shoulder to his navel marked where he'd jumped out of a moving car and torn himself raw on the asphalt.

RIGHT SHOULDER — Half an iron burn scar (old).

And there on his right shoulder was the perfect outline of half a hot iron…his father ripped the iron from his mother's hands and smacked Neil with it. Neil still remembered how his skin looked as it peeled off with the metal…On Neil's right shoulder was a burn scar, courtesy of getting smacked by a hot iron. Andrew put his left hand to it, fingertips lining up perfectly with the raised bumps the iron's holes had left behind. 

FOREARMS — Cuts and burns to the forearms, scratches to the injuries.

Time stopped as Lola burned and cut a path up Neil's arms.

[Lola] sounded appreciative, not insulted, and scratched hard lines down his injured arms.

WRISTS — Handcuffs x2 instances.

Metal cuffs locked his hands to the headboard. He yanked his arms as hard as he could, nearly skinning his wrists in the effort, but the headboard didn't even creak…Andrew reached for the bandages on Neil's wrists, and Neil let him rip tape and gauze off. The scabs looked worse today…Neil dragged his stare up from the ugly lines striped across his wrists to Andrew's face.

Lola climbed into the backseat behind him and pulled Neil's arms around back of his chair. She cuffed his hands together and clicked them as tight as she could…He tore his wrists open on unyielding metal but he couldn't stop.

HANDS — Knife to fingertips, knife to base of fingers, knife from base of finger to thumb, burns to the palm, crosshatch knife cuts on back of hand, burns to knuckles, burn between thumb and index.

Neil kicked his legs a bit, testing his range of movement, but was quickly distracted by the press of sharp, cold metal against his fingertips.

[Lola] got bored of the teasing before long and cut a shallow line along the base of his fingers.

[Lola] cut a stinging line down from the base of his finger to the thick flesh of his thumb. She covered his hand with burning lacerations before moving on to the next one.

He traced the outline of a key into his bloody, burnt palm with a shaky finger, closed his eyes, and wished Neil Josten goodbye.

Lola had lined the back of his hand with crosshatches and burned angry circles into his knuckles. Another burn mark stained the tender flesh between his thumb and index finger. The burns were starting to ooze, but drying blood smothered most of the mess.

ABDOMEN — Multiple large knife cuts and punctures to abdomen.

Along his abdomen were larger overlapping lines from confrontations with his father's people while on the run…All of his men were well-versed in knife- fighting, and more than one of them had tried to stick Neil like a pig.

Andrew was quiet a long time, then dropped his hand to the slashes across Neil's gut.

LEGS — Less extensive, handcuffs on ankles. 

He pulled his new shirt on over the one he was already wearing and wrestled the bottom layer out from underneath. It took a bit of work, but he managed to keep most of his skin hidden. Changing out his pants was easier, since most of the damage was on his upper half.

Neil watched Lola cuff his ankles to the seat's rails and barely refrained from kneeing her in the face.

MISC — Random old scars on torso, 50+ stitches from knife cuts all over, cane whipped across the mouth/cheek, most extensive are the burns on his face after the Lola incident.

Faded scars crisscrossed here and there from his life on the run, either from stupid accidents, desperate escapes, or conflicts with local lowlifes.

"I think I pulled my stitches," Neil said. "I feel blood." - "Where?" Wymack asked. - "Everywhere?" Neil guessed, and tried undoing his coat buttons one-handed…He didn't say anything about how many bandages Neil had wrapped around his chest and abdomen or how many bruises showed around the gauze…He'd ripped threads loose on his side, down near his waist…"Shut up," Wymack said. "When you're sporting fewer than fifty stitches I'll consider letting you on my court again.”

He saw the cane come up, but it was too fast for him to dodge. It caught him in the face across his cheek and the side of his mouth.

The worst injuries were the ones on his face, but the mess Lola made of his hands was the most inconvenient.

Hi there,

Interesting question! I do think the bets are such a compelling aspect of the Foxes dynamic with one another - these are all characters who are frequently gossiped about & shit-talked by the general public and it’s fascinating to see how they basically make a game out of that with one another.

As always, my Long and Many thoughts will be under the Read More. (Actually my thoughts got so Long and Many that this will be part 1/2 haha].

What I also find interesting about Matt is that Fanon rarely has him call Andrew & his group the Monsters. However, Matt was actually the FIRST character to call them the Monsters. Throughout AFTG Matt actually says The Monsters THE MOST - he says it 6 times, compared to Allison’s 5. Dan only says the term once and that is directly after Andrew strangles Allison. And yet, Allison & Dan are often thrown under the bus for calling Andrew & his group Monster/the Monsters, whereas Matt is just portrayed as this… happy-go-lucky guy. And again this isn’t to say that Matt isn’t kind - even though he DOES refer to Andrew’s group as the Monsters he also invites them to spend Christmas/NY with him & his mother. Basically, Matt is a pretty typical early 2000s dude and he is a FOX. He leaves group lunch to fuck his girlfriend in his truck and then a homophobic man named Seth cheers him with a fucking beer bottle when he returns.

As for Dan, I think it’s a combination of she would/she wouldn’t. I think publicly she would stop betting on a Fox who expressed discomfort because Dan is really into team unity/bringing the Foxes together. She consistently reaches out to Kevin (including after Kathy’s interview) as well as Aaron (after Andrew is brought to Easthaven) and does try to be welcoming to Neil (and encourages Neil to bring Andrew’s group into the rest of the Foxes). She pretended to be friends with Renee & Allison her first year even when they weren’t getting along in order to maintain a united image in front of the sexist male Foxes. Like I said, Dan only calls Andrew a monster ONCE and that if after he strangles Allison. She wants to get to know the Vixens & have team dinners/team movies/team vacations.

However, I think Dan would still secretly participate in bets but only with Matt & Allison. They would keep it super on the down low, but I do think Dan logic would be that if the Fox in question doesn’t know to be offended, it can’t really hurt them. Again, Dan is also used to being shit-talked a lot, so I think she would be sympathetic in that sense but Dan is also of the mindset that you need to roll with the punches if you want to survive in the world, so while she would be sympathetic & outwardly supportive, I think she’d still participate in a bet or two b/c I don’t think in her mind it would really be harmful.

Allison definitely would keep participating in the bets both in secret & publicly & without remorse. She would be of the mind that the Fox in question needs to toughen up and stop being so sensitive - again Allison is ALSO used to being gossiped about and having her business everywhere, including her eating disorder & her own estrangement from her parents - so I think the idea of “being invasive” doesn’t really phase her. Allison also thought that Matt’s struggles regarding his addiction his first year b/c the other guys on the Foxes in his dorm were doing drugs (including Seth) was an issue that Matt needed to get over & that the other guys weren’t obligated to try to make things easier for Matt. She also told Aaron to get used to the gossip after Andrew was raped & Aaron was being charged with murder.

Allison is also interesting in the sense that she gets thrown under the bus a lot for calling Andrew a monster but what is actually kind of fascinating is that she doesn’t often say it with a whole lot of disdain. She refers to Andrew as a monster for giving Matt speed but then also praises him at the same time for saying his method worked. Very much “the ends justify the means.” Allison genuinely thinks Andrew fixed Matt and therefore there isn’t really a need to hold a grudge against Andrew for it (even though Dan holds a grudge that she does try to set aside for the rest of the team - but Dan is also in love with Matt & more protective of him). She also calls Andrew a monster when she mentioned he visited her at Abby’s after Seth died (although Andrew did just strangle her when she has this conversation with Neil, so) but again Allison says it was that conversation with Andrew that got her back on the court & moreover she doesn’t really seem to have any kind of grudge against Andrew for strangling her. Even when she outs Andrew/Neil in front of everyone and says she’s happy she won a lot of money - it is definitely done with a callous disregard for Andrew/Neil’s privacy, the fact that the FBI are literally Right There, that Andrew isn’t out to his family - but also she does seem to be trying to frame it in a ‘we’re all still supportive of you’ like I think sometimes Allison gets framed of being “against Andreil” b/c she thinks Neil can do better - which, Allison dated Seth & I don’t think she’s invested enough in Neil to care who the fuck he dates - but also she does kind of frame Andreil as Happy News compared to all the torture.

Allison can be callous and her nicknames cruel - however, I do think that Allison has likely experienced a lot of cruel nicknames herself over the years considering she’s a beautiful outspoken woman with a temper (bitch, cunt, slut, whore) so I do think Allison is of the opinion that you’ve just got to embrace the shitty things people say about you instead of whimpering about it. This is obviously a personality that some people are not going to like & it isn’t exactly going to win Allison a lot of friends, but a certain amount of viciousness is the norm for the Foxes.

Another Fox who would still publicly bet is Kevin. Kevin doesn't really give a shit about other people’s discomfort (like when he tells Neil to get over his scars if he wants to be a star & to stop being shy about changing in front of others), frequently shares his unpopular opinions regardless of if they could hurt other people’s feelings (like talking about how much the Foxes suck & they’re going to Lose) and can be rather controlling when he thinks he's being Helpful (telling Nicky not to eat junk food). Kevin, also like Allison, is used to being in the public spot light since birth & knowing that everyone is already talking about him. He’s also used to having Everyone in his business considering the Ravens are a cult & he had a whole codependent friendship/brotherhood/whatever going on with Riko, AND Kevin basically immediately spills all of his and (some of Jean's) secrets to the Foxes a couple months in. Therefore, Kevin like Allison is desensitized to gossip & everyone being in your business - particularly your teammates being in your business, for the Ravens that was the norm.

Basically, if Kevin wants to join a bet/make a bet, he’s not going to let a Foxes discomfort stop him. Like Allison, he’ll basically think they need to Get Over It and Toughen Up. Especially if they want to make it on a team like the Foxes/make it to court as an Exy star. In a way, I think Kevin & Allison would actually be MOST united on this matter b/c unlike Dan & Matt they would not be trying to hide the fact that they are still betting on said Fox.

Lastly, Aaron. Aaron, I think has always seemed the most disjointed from the rest of the Foxes & I think that would continue. I don’t think he’ll be as antagonistic as he was in AFTG b/c he’s not actively pushing them away, however, I do think he’s going to be focused on his romantic relationship with Katelyn & rebuilding his relationship with Andrew as brothers, maybe even trying to connect with Nicky a bit more now that Aaron is Okay With Being Gay (plus he & Nicky will be sharing a dorm without Andrew, Neil or Kevin). Like Andrew, I don’t think he would go out of his way to be antagonistic to the Fox that doesn’t want to be bet on, but I don’t think he’d be kind, either. I think this is another would/wouldn’t like Dan. However, unlike Dan I don’t think Aaron would try to be low-key, I think if there just happened to be a bet that he found genuinely interesting or thought he could win A Lot of Money (maybe to take Katelyn out on a nice date) he would participate & not really give a shit if the other Fox was bothered. As far as Aaron is concerned it’s not like he’s Punching You In the Face, so they’ll get over it.

Seth is dead, but we all know he would just be an Asshole and keep betting on them, regardless. Frankly, he’d probably bet on them MORE if they complained. For once he & Kevin would be united.

I think an important thing to remember about the Foxes is that they cannot be examined through a perspective of what… well-adjusted people would find acceptable either socially or in a friend group. They have very different lines of what is appropriate vs inappropriate & often fist-fight one another, verbally fight one another, cross boundaries & fail to get along - however, they can also be united against common enemies (such as Riko & the Ravens) as well as the fact that they are all seen as unwanted and disposable by the rest of the Exy community/the wider world & they can understand one another’s struggles, even if sometimes they don’t like one another/can clash.

I find sometimes there is a tendency to either (a) make the Foxes the Perfect Found Family and they’re all SUPER close and don’t have any conflicts/always get along/apologize to one another, which can make the Canon Foxes seem even WORSE in comparison, although I do find the Canon Foxes dynamics to be a lot more compelling than the sanitized Fanon dynamics. Or (b) to fixate on one Fox/a few Foxes being “victims” of the other Foxes bullying. I don’t think that is necessarily the case b/c ALL of the Foxes can be horrible to one another - either verbally or physically. I think cherry-picking can make it seem like this is not the case, however, when looking at the way the Foxes interact throughout AFTG… they’ve all had their moments of compassion & their moments if viciousness. And that is what makes them Foxes!

Neil who never lets Andrew carry his own bag through an airport or out of a stadium, even though Andrew is inarguably bigger and more muscled than him. Who always keeps the freezer stocked with ice cream no matter the circumstances. Who keeps a bubble of space around Andrew when they’re walking through thick crowds, always a bicep or an elbow in the way to stop people from getting too close. Who gets his wallet out every time they get dinner like Andrew doesn’t make 80% more than him. Always free shoulder and feet massages, post-game and in-bed and whenever, without Andrew ever having to ask. He always washes Andrew’s hair first in the shower, always cups the water away from his face so soap doesn’t get in his eyes.

Neil who is always down to do Anything Andrew Wants, Ever. Andrew wants to go on a drive in the middle of the night? Or an impromptu road trip in the off season? Sure, Neil’s grabbing the keys. On the road they pass a pungent, fresh-made bakery and Neil turns the car around without uttering a word. Neil, who, after years, always answers the phone when Andrew calls on the very first ring — who turns his full-attention to Andrew when he calls his name, even in the most crowded room. Who does pretty much anything Andrew asks of him and anticipates dozens of other wants and needs. Who always goes out of his way to make Andrew’s life easier. Neil, who puts Andrew above anything and everything else.

1. It’s overused and supports the current status quote of typical vampire supremacy:worshiping rich folk.

2. Vampires prey upon humans and therefore symbolize capitalists preying on the working class.

GRIME I say ‘tis dirty, wicked, foul, and dark -- An opportunity both miss’d and scorn’d -- That vampires of any shape or shade Would drink the blood of innocence most pure When Pepsi costs a dollar sev’nty five.

FIRST FOOL O lady, I must ask, and tell the truth: Wherever in this God’s green holy land Canst thou obtain this drink for such a fee? I’ve seen no less than fifty-five pence more.

GRIME A hospital, good sir.

SECOND FOOL (Does some figures)                                And might I ask Wherever in this land (of any hue) Is fellow who two dollar thirty pence Dost pay for si of Pep?

GRIME                                    Not I, i’faith. I pay a mere two shillings short of two. And, once again, I pay in hospital.

CANADIAN JESTER I pay a hefty two and half for mine. But in my blood runs maple syrup, too.

GRIME O Jester fine, I pray thee, still thyself. Thou stray’st from this, our mode of speaking here.

FIRST FOOL But blood costs naught but time.

SECOND JESTER                                                 Aye, that is true; But sir, remember this in figuring: A Pepsi, too, is free, if stolen ‘tis.

FIRST FOOL I see, but -- wait, another thought occurs. Wherefore, I ask thee, for what reason, sirs, Dost Lady Grime buy Pepsi from the house Of healing, birth, and death?

GRIME                                             ‘Tis simple, friend. Allow me to explain to thee the cause. The Pepsi sold by those who follow in The footsteps of St. Luke, Evangelist Is sold for a mere dollar sev’nty five.

FIRST HARLEQUIN (Aside, to SECOND HARLEQUIN) Why wouldst a vampire drink Pepsi, then?

SECOND HARLEQUIN (Aside, to FIRST HARLEQUIN) Why wouldst an honest man drink Pepsi, sir?

FIRST FOOL A femboy, it would seem.

(There is general applause and agreement.)

GRIME                                    O fool, a what?

Enter KONAHRIKS De’ACTIVAT EDZOZ ESQ., a SCHOLAR and WARD OF THE SKY.

WARD You see, my friends, this selfsame story tells The truth of why the incubus’s tale Is one that bears to no more to be declared. I’ll tell you all my reasons three. The first: The wealthy ghoul who drinks the common blood Is overused and stale, like molding bread; But also hangs upon the teller’s face A pallid, gasping idol worship mask. The second mark I tally here along: A vampire who sucks the blood from men Does hold up in the mind a mirror cold. This mirror shows that, far from fantasy, The vampire is real, ‘tis Elon Musk. The reason third is simple, clean, and pure: A werewolf’s just, like, sexier, my dudes.

(GRIME dances like a ferret. There is rejoicing.)

Exeunt.

Enter LARA, FELAGUND, and SHERLOCK, accompanied by the MANGO MERCHANT.

LARA I feel these words have struck me to my core. Is this, the world, collapsing to the ground Or is it just my weary, shaking soul?

FELAGUND ‘Twould seem my lady needs to see St. Luke.

SHERLOCK I’ve heard his fellows sell a Pepsi cheap.

(The MANGO MERCHANT offers a mango. All weep.)