do you think if someone expressed discomfort with the foxes betting on them, they'd actually stop? because i have a hard time believing they would, especially allison
Hi there,
Interesting question! I do think the bets are such a compelling aspect of the Foxes dynamic with one another - these are all characters who are frequently gossiped about & shit-talked by the general public and itโs fascinating to see how they basically make a game out of that with one another.
As always, my Long and Many thoughts will be under the Read More. (Actually my thoughts got so Long and Many that this will be part 1/2 haha].
Part 2/2
What I also find interesting about Matt is that Fanon rarely has him call Andrew & his group the Monsters. However, Matt was actually the FIRST character to call them the Monsters. Throughout AFTG Matt actually says The Monsters THE MOST - he says it 6 times, compared to Allisonโs 5. Dan only says the term once and that is directly after Andrew strangles Allison. And yet, Allison & Dan are often thrown under the bus for calling Andrew & his group Monster/the Monsters, whereas Matt is just portrayed as thisโฆ happy-go-lucky guy. And again this isnโt to say that Matt isnโt kind - even though he DOES refer to Andrewโs group as the Monsters he also invites them to spend Christmas/NY with him & his mother. Basically, Matt is a pretty typical early 2000s dude and he is a FOX. He leaves group lunch to fuck his girlfriend in his truck and then a homophobic man named Seth cheers him with a fucking beer bottle when he returns.
As for Dan, I think itโs a combination of she would/she wouldnโt. I think publicly she would stop betting on a Fox who expressed discomfort because Dan is really into team unity/bringing the Foxes together. She consistently reaches out to Kevin (including after Kathyโs interview) as well as Aaron (after Andrew is brought to Easthaven) and does try to be welcoming to Neil (and encourages Neil to bring Andrewโs group into the rest of the Foxes). She pretended to be friends with Renee & Allison her first year even when they werenโt getting along in order to maintain a united image in front of the sexist male Foxes. Like I said, Dan only calls Andrew a monster ONCE and that if after he strangles Allison. She wants to get to know the Vixens & have team dinners/team movies/team vacations.
However, I think Dan would still secretly participate in bets but only with Matt & Allison. They would keep it super on the down low, but I do think Dan logic would be that if the Fox in question doesnโt know to be offended, it canโt really hurt them. Again, Dan is also used to being shit-talked a lot, so I think she would be sympathetic in that sense but Dan is also of the mindset that you need to roll with the punches if you want to survive in the world, so while she would be sympathetic & outwardly supportive, I think sheโd still participate in a bet or two b/c I donโt think in her mind it would really be harmful.
Allison definitely would keep participating in the bets both in secret & publicly & without remorse. She would be of the mind that the Fox in question needs to toughen up and stop being so sensitive - again Allison is ALSO used to being gossiped about and having her business everywhere, including her eating disorder & her own estrangement from her parents - so I think the idea of โbeing invasiveโ doesnโt really phase her. Allison also thought that Mattโs struggles regarding his addiction his first year b/c the other guys on the Foxes in his dorm were doing drugs (including Seth) was an issue that Matt needed to get over & that the other guys werenโt obligated to try to make things easier for Matt. She also told Aaron to get used to the gossip after Andrew was raped & Aaron was being charged with murder.
Allison is also interesting in the sense that she gets thrown under the bus a lot for calling Andrew a monster but what is actually kind of fascinating is that she doesnโt often say it with a whole lot of disdain. She refers to Andrew as a monster for giving Matt speed but then also praises him at the same time for saying his method worked. Very much โthe ends justify the means.โ Allison genuinely thinks Andrew fixed Matt and therefore there isnโt really a need to hold a grudge against Andrew for it (even though Dan holds a grudge that she does try to set aside for the rest of the team - but Dan is also in love with Matt & more protective of him). She also calls Andrew a monster when she mentioned he visited her at Abbyโs after Seth died (although Andrew did just strangle her when she has this conversation with Neil, so) but again Allison says it was that conversation with Andrew that got her back on the court & moreover she doesnโt really seem to have any kind of grudge against Andrew for strangling her. Even when she outs Andrew/Neil in front of everyone and says sheโs happy she won a lot of money - it is definitely done with a callous disregard for Andrew/Neilโs privacy, the fact that the FBI are literally Right There, that Andrew isnโt out to his family - but also she does seem to be trying to frame it in a โweโre all still supportive of youโ like I think sometimes Allison gets framed of being โagainst Andreilโ b/c she thinks Neil can do better - which, Allison dated Seth & I donโt think sheโs invested enough in Neil to care who the fuck he dates - but also she does kind of frame Andreil as Happy News compared to all the torture.
Allison can be callous and her nicknames cruel - however, I do think that Allison has likely experienced a lot of cruel nicknames herself over the years considering sheโs a beautiful outspoken woman with a temper (bitch, cunt, slut, whore) so I do think Allison is of the opinion that youโve just got to embrace the shitty things people say about you instead of whimpering about it. This is obviously a personality that some people are not going to like & it isnโt exactly going to win Allison a lot of friends, but a certain amount of viciousness is the norm for the Foxes.
Another Fox who would still publicly bet is Kevin. Kevin doesn't really give a shit about other peopleโs discomfort (like when he tells Neil to get over his scars if he wants to be a star & to stop being shy about changing in front of others), frequently shares his unpopular opinions regardless of if they could hurt other peopleโs feelings (like talking about how much the Foxes suck & theyโre going to Lose) and can be rather controlling when he thinks he's being Helpful (telling Nicky not to eat junk food). Kevin, also like Allison, is used to being in the public spot light since birth & knowing that everyone is already talking about him. Heโs also used to having Everyone in his business considering the Ravens are a cult & he had a whole codependent friendship/brotherhood/whatever going on with Riko, AND Kevin basically immediately spills all of his and (some of Jean's) secrets to the Foxes a couple months in. Therefore, Kevin like Allison is desensitized to gossip & everyone being in your business - particularly your teammates being in your business, for the Ravens that was the norm.
Basically, if Kevin wants to join a bet/make a bet, heโs not going to let a Foxes discomfort stop him. Like Allison, heโll basically think they need to Get Over It and Toughen Up. Especially if they want to make it on a team like the Foxes/make it to court as an Exy star. In a way, I think Kevin & Allison would actually be MOST united on this matter b/c unlike Dan & Matt they would not be trying to hide the fact that they are still betting on said Fox.
Lastly, Aaron. Aaron, I think has always seemed the most disjointed from the rest of the Foxes & I think that would continue. I donโt think heโll be as antagonistic as he was in AFTG b/c heโs not actively pushing them away, however, I do think heโs going to be focused on his romantic relationship with Katelyn & rebuilding his relationship with Andrew as brothers, maybe even trying to connect with Nicky a bit more now that Aaron is Okay With Being Gay (plus he & Nicky will be sharing a dorm without Andrew, Neil or Kevin). Like Andrew, I donโt think he would go out of his way to be antagonistic to the Fox that doesnโt want to be bet on, but I donโt think heโd be kind, either. I think this is another would/wouldnโt like Dan. However, unlike Dan I donโt think Aaron would try to be low-key, I think if there just happened to be a bet that he found genuinely interesting or thought he could win A Lot of Money (maybe to take Katelyn out on a nice date) he would participate & not really give a shit if the other Fox was bothered. As far as Aaron is concerned itโs not like heโs Punching You In the Face, so theyโll get over it.
Seth is dead, but we all know he would just be an Asshole and keep betting on them, regardless. Frankly, heโd probably bet on them MORE if they complained. For once he & Kevin would be united.
I think an important thing to remember about the Foxes is that they cannot be examined through a perspective of whatโฆ well-adjusted people would find acceptable either socially or in a friend group. They have very different lines of what is appropriate vs inappropriate & often fist-fight one another, verbally fight one another, cross boundaries & fail to get along - however, they can also be united against common enemies (such as Riko & the Ravens) as well as the fact that they are all seen as unwanted and disposable by the rest of the Exy community/the wider world & they can understand one anotherโs struggles, even if sometimes they donโt like one another/can clash.
I find sometimes there is a tendency to either (a) make the Foxes the Perfect Found Family and theyโre all SUPER close and donโt have any conflicts/always get along/apologize to one another, which can make the Canon Foxes seem even WORSE in comparison, although I do find the Canon Foxes dynamics to be a lot more compelling than the sanitized Fanon dynamics. Or (b) to fixate on one Fox/a few Foxes being โvictimsโ of the other Foxes bullying. I donโt think that is necessarily the case b/c ALL of the Foxes can be horrible to one another - either verbally or physically. I think cherry-picking can make it seem like this is not the case, however, when looking at the way the Foxes interact throughout AFTGโฆ theyโve all had their moments of compassion & their moments if viciousness. And that is what makes them Foxes!
Thank you so much for this Ask - it was actually a very interesting opportunity to do Foxes Character Analysis of each of them individually through the betting system & I found it very enjoyable. I hope you enjoyed my thoughts!
























