Serafina Pickelda

This is an interesting question! We do have some information from Nora regarding how Andrew would have responded if Neil had died in Baltimore, and we can use that to help build an answer to how Andrew would respond if Neil died further on in the future. In the old EC answers, it’s when Neil goes missing that Andrew truly understands what Neil means to him - that despite everything Andrew has done to keep his barriers in place & not let Neil in, he loves Neil. And it is after he gets Neil back that Andrew realizes he cannot let Neil go, which is why Andrew breaks his deal with Aaron & at the end of TKM stops referring to him and Neil as ‘nothing’ and fully commits to being with Neil (loving Neil).

This is after, as Nora describes, “that bus ride where Neil talked for hours about his life and looked at Andrew like Andrew was the answer to everything.” As we should all (hopefully) know by now, when Andrew says in TKM, “I am not your answer and you sure as fuck aren’t mine,” this line is IRONIC. It’s situational irony that becomes dramatic irony when you re-read the novels because as we know, Kevin’s deal with Andrew involves, “giving Andrew something to build a life around,” and Andrew ends up building a life around NEIL. Neil is his answer - and Andrew IS Neil’s answer, and Andrew enjoys being Neil’s answer. He wants to feel appreciated, like he is a good protector - perhaps even a good man & not a monster, despite the fact that Andrew himself fed into the monster persona, but as Betsy says the monster persona is not actually healthy for Andrew - and he wants to be loved.

Nora then goes on to say, “what little light Andrew had would have gone out that day… it is noticeably and extreme… everyone would have seen the light go out in Andrew.” We know from Nicky and other characters that Andrew before his medication was passively suicidal: joyless, without a future, his high school guidance counselor feared Andrew wouldn’t make it to graduation. That is part of the reason characters like Nicky so strongly believed the court-mandated medication was good for Andrew because he appeared “happy” and “no longer passively suicidal” just because he was smiling and laughing - even though those outward expressions of emotions were not at all indicative of how Andrew truly felt.

However, Andrew HAD been opening himself up to Neil. Emotionally, in sharing secrets with Neil he had had never told anyone before & learning about Neil, as well. Physically, in letting Neil touch him - even his hair - when he hadn’t ever allowed that before, either. Andrew was trying to protect himself by self-censuring, such as during Andrew & Neil’s Exites conversation pre-Hemmick Thanksgiving in TRK because it wasn’t his physical attraction to Neil that Andrew feared, but his emotional attraction. And later on that by insisting that he & Neil were nothing, Andrew could keep himself safe from losing Neil or being betrayed by Neil. But all of that self-protection was for nothing when Neil got kidnapped & it would have destroyed Andrew if Neil had actually been killed in Baltimore.

Andrew wouldn’t have killed himself, however. Andrew doesn’t strike me as the kind of character who is actively suicidal - meaning planning and then attempting a suicide attempt. He has always been more passively suicidal - meaning that he doesn’t see life worth living, and as Nora has described, used to count down the seconds of the day basically waiting to die. He would engage in self-destructive behaviours involving not taking his health seriously: over-drinking, smoking, drunk-driving & speeding. Even when Andrew arranged to be in a deadly car crash to kill Tilda, Andrew wasn’t planning on dying, he just wasn’t valuing his own life or taking the risk to his own life seriously.

And that’s how he would return to being if Neil died (and I would argue at any point in their lives). As Nora said, “Andrew would never let anyone or anything else in… [Neil isn’t something he can recover from]… [Neil] was wanting something for himself when Andrew knew better than to want anything.” She then goes on to say that Neil’s death would, “destroy Andrew’s relationship with everyone in his life, up to including Bee.” And this is Andrew who has only opened himself up to wanting - now imagine if he had spent decades wanting Neil & finally feeling safe with the life he had built.

Side note: this is also why I can’t take Break Up & Make Up Andrew/Neil very seriously. Andrew would not just return to “normal” if he lost Neil even via a break up & continue hooking up with other men. Andrew is a highly codependent person - see his deal for Aaron that he breaks FOR Neil & then precedes to transfer all his codependent tendencies onto Neil as his “reason to live” - and the fact that if Neil had died only a FEW MONTHS into their relationship would have completely destroyed Andrew, it’s impossible to deny just how much Neil means to him. [Also what Nora herself said on Andrew & Neil ever breaking up: “But once Nathaniel is laid to rest that’s pretty much it, there’s no going back. The only things that could break them up are things neither of them would ever consider doing–Neil spilling Andrew’s secrets & belittling them, or Andrew killing one of the original Foxes–so they’re guaranteed to make it work the rest of their lives. They deserve that much, at least, considering what it took them to get to this point. Til death do us part.”] This is how close they are. I’ve noticed since The Odyssey came out some people have been using homophrosyne to describe Andrew/Neil and I completely agree - although I do think Andrew’s crash-out at losing Neil would be far more comparable to when Achilles lost Patroclus, but I digress.

It’s funny, as well b/c when Nora was asked about if Neil had chosen someone else over Andrew (also just to clarify this was a speculative question, not something ever actually considered to be Canon/Canon possible), Nora also said this, “Neil gave Andrew an anchor and a focal point for his life, something worth fighting for and waking up for. If you take that away from him, then there’s nothing else, and Andrew’s learned yet again that it’s not worth the effort to want anything. He’d shut down emotionally, and no one would have the key to open him up again.” Andrew really is out here investing every bit of himself in the first person he felt romantically attracted to at the age of NINETEEN. Personally, love this for Andrew. Most fascinating character of all time, truly comparable to Hua Cheng. And then if Andrew didn’t have Neil, and his deal with Kevin was fulfilled b/c Neil was alive & had made the deal with Ichirou, Neil just wasn’t with Andrew, then, “he’d be done with all of them [The Monsters]. [Andrew] would be adrift, counting down the seconds of existence like he always had… surviving, but not living, not really, and going home alone to a house in Columbia with only drinks for company.” And this is why I cannot abide by any AFTG analysis that tries to suggest Andrew would be okay without Neil when every fact to the contrary suggests that Andrew would be absolutely miserable forever without Neil. [And I'm selfish & love Andrew, so why would any of y'all wanna do this to him??]

Nora then says about Neil dying that the, “only thing that would keep Andrew putting one foot in front of the other would be his promise to Kevin." (so perhaps losing Neil COULD potentially make Andrew actively suicidal if he didn’t have any deals to focus on such as if Kevin no longer needed his protection - remember his deal with Aaron would end at graduation). Nora says that Andrew would feel obligated to get the Foxes to finals - in Neil’s memory - while actively hating Exy more than ever for reminding him of Neil. And she also said Andrew would hate himself, as well: for letting himself get hurt, for losing Neil - and this I think would be equally traumatic for Andrew because I don’t think he would have cared enough about himself to have hated himself before losing Neil. Everything else would for Andrew would be ice: a true nothing - feeling nothing, nothing matters, nothing is important.

And then Nora finishes with this tragedy: without Neil to make a deal with Ichirou, Jean remains with the Ravens & Riko remains alive. And Kevin remains afraid his entire life, requiring Andrew to watch his back - an Andrew who is even more joyless than before, who Kevin will never fulfill his promise to because there is no longer anything for Andrew to build his life around with Neil. Until Andrew finally dies. Andrew’s relationships with his family: Nicky & Aaron would undoubtedly be terrible and he and Aaron would never recover enough to become brothers through therapy with Betsy, and his friendship with Kevin an obligation that Andrew would grow to resent the longer it kept Andrew alive - we also know Andrew’s reaction to Kevin keeping Neil’s secrets when he knew Neil had lived (strangling Kevin). I imagine his reaction would have been ten-times as worse if Neil had died.

Now, even if Neil died in the FAR future and not in Baltimore, I genuinely think Andrew’s devastation at Neil’s death wouldn’t be any different. Because the thing to remember is that Andrew specifically finds life enjoyable because his life is intertwined with Neil’s. I know some readers like the idea that Andrew just has a soft-spot for cats, but Nora once answered that it’s not the cats themselves that Andrew is attached to, he becomes attached to them for being his & Neil’s cats. They are part of Neil, he is taking care of them with Neil. Exy becomes fun because he is playing with Neil - Andrew & Neil are always transferred to the same team by Andrew’s third year going Pro. Sex becomes safe and enjoyable because Andrew is having sex with Neil, who he loves & trusts.

If Andrew has a super crash-out if Neil died after a year of knowing him, I cannot imagine the fallout being any better if Neil died ten, twenty, thirty or even forty years after Andrew has built a life with him. Kevin obviously would no longer require Andrew’s protection, so Andrew also wouldn’t have that obligation to keep him being only passively suicidal instead of actively suicidal. Nicky would be in Germany with Erik, and while his relationship with Aaron would probably be good, Aaron would also be married to Katelyn with or without children depending on which of Nora’s answers you like better.

I think Andrew would continue taking care of their cats - out of an obligation to Neil as they are still a living part of Neil, although I’m sure Andrew at that point would also love the cats in his own way. But after the cats also passed on, I don’t think Andrew would adopt any more. Not without Neil - not when he would have the memories of adopting cats with Neil. If Andrew was still playing Pro Exy at the time of Neil’s death, he would retire immediately. As we know Andrew is trying to quit smoking (for Neil, good for you Jean - you knew exactly where to hit to make Andrew take his health more seriously) but he would undoubtedly take it up again if Neil died: no reason to care about running to protect someone if that person is dead. Perhaps he would even want the same reminder Neil wishes to have of Mary. Andrew would also undoubtedly begin drinking too much, and likely shut himself away from most people. If he didn’t want to build connections with people if Neil were to die before he & Andrew really built a life together, Andrew certainly wouldn’t want to be building connections with others AFTER he and Neil had build a life together. I don’t think Andrew is the type to try to “move on” when his partner dies.

Some may argue that Andrew would be “better healed” in the future to move on from Neil. I won’t get into it now how I disagree with a lot of “healed” Andrew takes that I think far too drastically change his characterization and that "healed" is often used to mean "becomes socially normal" but… a lot of the healing Andrew DOES do in Canon is for other people, particularly Neil. Andrew is not canonically choosing to live for himself. He is choosing to live for Neil & their relationship & the joy he finds in it. Take Neil away from Andrew, and what’s left?

To start, Neil ending up in a relationship does not invalidate his sexuality. I don't even know why this is being argued other than the fact that people think he's "not asexual enough" or whatever argument they may come up with that tries to divorce demisexuality from asexuality. Demisexuality is on the asexual spectrum. Some demisexuals never find a relationship, some demisexuals continue to not have sex even in relationships, but many demisexuals do have relationships in which they have sex (just like how many demiromantics have relationships in which they are in love). The fact that they can trust someone enough to have sex and fall in love is kind of the point of demisexuality and demiromanticism; it's the part of the asexual and aromantic spectrums that allows for exceptions like that.

When characters around him don't believe him when he says he doesn't swing, this is an accurate portrayal of how many aspec individuals are treated, both before and after coming out. Asexuality and aromanticism are not respected by everyone (hell, just look within the queer community and you'll even see it here. We're a minority for a reason and denying we're queer only hammers in WHY we're queer. If you believe we aren't, fuck off) and it's incredibly common for people to assume that someone is just closeted gay when they say they aren't interested in sex or romance. The Foxes assume Neil is gay because they don't know about asexuality or any part of its spectrum of identities. The books take place in 2006 and 2007. Asexuality as a term has been around for decades (first recorded in the 1970s, I believe? I could be remembering wrong), but it wasn't very well known until around the 2010s. You really only knew of it if you were in the queer community finding like-minded people, and even within the queer community, those who aren't on the asexual spectrum are less likely to care even now.

Nicky and Matt assume Neil is gay because they don't know about asexuality and assume a guy not talking about girls must be gay. But Neil ending up in a relationship with a man is NOT him "proving them right." He says in The King's Men "I've said all year I don't swing and I meant it. Kissing you doesn't make me look at any of them differently. The only one I'm interested in is you." This is a blatant example of demisexuality. It's textbook representation. The others assuming he's gay does NOT change how he views his sexuality. Why? Because other people don't determine your sexuality. I shouldn't have to explain that to people. Neil knows how his sexuality works and he's confident in that. He doesn't have the specific words for it, but he doesn't need those to know himself.

Also, Neil is not the type to want a label. He will correct people who get it wrong, but he won't care enough to use any word for it. Not labeling it does not make it any less true. He and Andrew don't label their relationship, but the books still end with Andrew admitting they're not nothing. They have a relationship, regardless of the fact they don't label it. Neil's demisexuality is the same way. A lack of a label does not negate the existence of something. I don't have a diagnosis for my sleeping issues, that doesn't mean I don't still have them. A label doesn't suddenly make it real, it just describes your lived experiences.

The need to have every sexuality spelled out and perfectly accepted in stories is a new trend I've noticed all over the place, both in and out of fandom, and I honestly don't know why people expect this. Coming out is messy, having your sexuality respected is often an uphill battle, and often you're not respected or listened to. People are going to push back or not believe you. People are going to get things wrong and you often won't have the right words to explain it. This is normal. This is how it works in reality.

Neil, despite not having the words for it nor caring enough to use them, is incredibly confident in his demisexuality. He asserts that he doesn't swing consistently and without hesitation. Even when he's with Andrew, he maintains it. He doesn't doubt himself at all. He knows how his attraction works and he doesn't question it or change how he talks about it. This is awesome to see because with most sexualities, asexual spectrum or not, you often see characters grappling with their sexualities trying to figure it out. Neil doesn't do that. Once he falls for Andrew, he's all in, but he does not budge on the fact he doesn't swing for anyone else. This confidence is inspiring.

I believe Betsy was definitely written to be a good therapist. Within-universe, she is meant to be the “best” therapist basically.

Nora has admitted in the past that she doesn’t really like therapists (same with fathers). But that Betsy, in regard to being a therapist, similar to Wymack in regard to being a father, is meant to be one of the Good Ones. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean we have to read Betsy as perfect, however, I ultimately think we are meant to read Betsy as someone who genuinely cares about her job & the patients under her care & as someone who has a positive impact on ‘troubled’ characters such as Andrew, Aaron, Jean & possibly even Kevin & Neil. This is reinforced in TSC & TGR when Betsy becomes JEAN’S therapist, despite him not attending Palmetto University. The other therapists - such as Jeremy’s therapist & the other therapist recommended for Jean - in contrast are obviously lackluster, and bad at their jobs. Even though Jeremy’s therapist does have a valid reason in regard to her dying daughter.

So, while I think we are ultimately meant to consider Betsy to be a good therapist whose advice is meant to be helpful & her treatment meant to be improving the well-being of the characters under her care, I also think the cracks are obvious even in the books & that can be expanded upon further instead of neglected.

Let me start with the logistical problems of Betsy as the “best” therapist. She is written to be a kind of “catch-all” therapist who seemingly specializes in every form of therapy known. Student counseling, family counseling, grief counseling, childhood abuse - physical, emotional & sexual, rape recovery, eating disorder recovery, and seemingly every mental health condition in existence from depression to anxiety. Realistically, a therapist would not be adequately trained to provide services on every single one of those issues & an individual would have multiple therapists to receive adequate treatment as required. Andrew would have been referred to a therapist that specialized in providing treatment for CSA/SA. [Do I think Andrew as a character would hate that? Yes. Do I think it would ultimately be better for him & also avoid the pitfall of forming too strong of an emotional attachment to a singular therapist? Also yes].

Additionally, Betsy treating Andrew’s individual mental health, as well as providing family counseling to Andrew & Aaron AND providing mental health services to Nicky (Andrew’s cousin), Neil (Andrew’s partner), Kevin (Andrew’s friend) and the rest of the Foxes (Andrew’s teammates) results in multiple severe conflicts on interest. Now, Betsy states in-text that she can be impartial & objective regardless of who she is treating, and this is also just my own personal values. but: I do not believe anyone on Earth is actually capable of being objective. Many people strive towards it, and when it comes to mental health there are policies in place meant to help therapists retain as much objectivity as possible. However, there is no such thing as someone who can be purely objective & without biases and when those barriers are eroded then there will be risks (that I think would be interesting to explore instead of dismissing!).

Moreover, during Betsy’s POV she very obviously is biased towards Andrew, “her most precious charge.” The Fandom can tell that Betsy is biased towards Andrew - which is where the obsession with “Mama Bee” came from. And since Andrew’s obvious childhood desire was to Have A Good Mother, much of the Fandom wants Betsy to be the fulfillment of that desire, even though that might not necessarily be the best outcome for Andrew. Other characters in-universe can also tell that Betsy is biased towards Andrew - Neil, Kevin, Aaron. They all express some amount of knowledge/paranoia regarding that Betsy is “Andrew’s.” Realistically, Betsy cannot provide adequate care to people close to Andrew when she is blatantly biased towards him (or when those closest to Andrew know that Andrew himself is very attached to her, colouring how they may wish to interact with Betsy). She cannot separate her emotional attachment from Andrew - or even seemingly hide it from others - to form an opinion as if he were a stranger meaning that she will be, even subconsciously, more geared to take Andrew’s side/want what is best for ANDREW even potentially at the detriment to others. Also, she may be less willing to tell him harsh truths or push him past his comfort zone out of care for him.

Neil believes (and we as readers are also meant to believe) that Betsy is the best person to heal Andrew & Aaron. Unfortunately, in the canonical therapy scene we do have with Betsy, Andrew, and Aaron, Betsy is actually doing very little as a therapist. Aaron speaks to Andrew while ignoring her completely, and Andrew speaks to Betsy, although not even really about what Aaron is saying. She’s basically providing a space for them to talk. Aaron doesn’t respect her as a therapist & in the Canon scene we do have of their therapy, he’s in fact using Andrew’s attachment to Betsy to out Andrew to her & make Andrew uncomfortable so he can get the upper-hand in breaking their deal

[which I’m not against Aaron for doing this, he had to do what he had to do, however, even in the Andrew & Aaron therapy scene we have with Betsy, her role as a therapist isn’t as important as her role of Being Important To Andrew - and other therapy scenes we have with Betsy in regard to Neil, Neil isn’t really interacting with her because she makes him uncomfortable. We also have the scene where Betsy offers Neil therapy in the car after Andrew was raped post-Thanksgiving, and while Betsy’s intentions were good & with the intent to help when she offers Neil a session in the car, if you are ever trying to have an uncomfortable conversation with someone who you know is often unwilling to talk to you… trying to start that conversation when y’all are trapped in a small moving box neither of you can escape from, is NOT the way to go about it. Neil knows Betsy is a therapist & if he wanted to speak to her, he could have initiated that kind of conversation].

Additionally, everything Betsy knows about Aaron is from Andrew or from Nicky, and she doesn’t have an emotional bond with Aaron. She has an emotional connection to Andrew, who buys her gifts, texts her, watches musicals with her, goes out to ice-cream with her. This has the potential to become very, very messy. Betsy doesn’t have an equal relationship with her patients where they can actually trust she isn’t biased, even though she reassures them that she isn’t.

Furthermore, the fact that Betsy treats every character about every issue under the Sun,also means that Betsy can form opinions/treatment plans based on information about someone that she has learned from someone else. Betsy stresses in the books - as does the Fandom - that Betsy will not share information about another patient to another patient without permission. That is only half the problem of having a singular therapist for an entire family/friend group/team. The other half of the problem is, for example: Nicky tells Betsy something about Andrew or Aaron - a deep, personal secret that was told to Nicky in confidence. Betsy cannot tell Andrew or Aaron that Nicky told her this, however, it’s not like she will have amnesia in regard to this information when interacting with Andrew or Aaron. Therefore, Betsy has MORE information about the patients that she is treating than they are even aware of her having. And this is true for all the Foxes. Aaron even acknowledges this during their therapy scene when he mentions that Betsy undoubtedly knows he has been homophobic to Nicky in the past from Nicky. This means that Betsy already has preconceived notions about Aaron’s character, which Aaron then has to dismantle.