SoleminiSanction

My piece for the @womenincomicsminibang, which goes with this amazing story by @gnomewithalaptop!

In an alternate timeline not too far away, Greta did join Darkseid at the end of Young Justice 1998 and the Female Furies were successful in capturing Cassie during Wonder Girl 2007.

no matter what the situation is, they're always bringing the social interaction to a screeching halt with these jokes. nobody ever wants to participate in this joke with them. nobody agrees with the premise. nobody ever knows what to say afterwards, it's just an awkward moment and a subject change. but they just keep doing it.

So, just as a reminder, this is the deal that Stephanie and Bruce make when he agrees to let her be Robin:

"You're on probation. You don't learn any of the big secrets. And the first time you disobey my orders, is the precise moment you're out. No second chances."

Here's what makes this interesting: Tim also had a probationary period. It took place between 1989's "A Lonely Place of Dying" storyline and 1991's Robin miniseries, happening in scattered pieces across bits of Batman, Detective Comics, and other associated books.

Aside from changes in comm-tech between 1989 and 2003, there's only two major differences between Steph's probationary period and Tim's. First, Tim already knew the biggest of the Big Secrets, so he gets moments of interacting with Bruce and Alfred in civilian mode and even stays with them during school holidays. And second, Tim was not allowed his own costume and was forbidden from going out on patrol. Presumably, this second difference comes from a mix of Bruce's implied scheme to lure Tim back, Steph already having copious experience on the streets as Spoiler, and just general management of their differing personalities.

The important thing is, during this time, Tim was under the same restrictions as Steph: stay out of this fight, and if you disobey me you're gone. And there came a time, right at the end, where Batman wound up in a dangerous situation versus a supervillain (in this case, Scarecrow) and the would-be Robin chose to break the rules. What's interesting is the parallels and differences between the two scenes, and how, if you're paying attention, they're pretty consistent, despite their very different endings.

For one, in Tim's case, he's not initially on the scene, and he doesn't have contact with Bruce (like I said, 1980's comm-tech -- Oracle wasn't even a thing yet). This means that he isn't defying direct orders when he chooses to act. And he doesn't rush in himself right off the bat -- his first choice is actually to dial up Commissioner Gordon on the landline.

It's only after he runs out of ways to get a hold of Batman and warn him of the danger that he makes the decision to go out. And he does so very conscious of the fact that this is going to cost him Robin, in spite of the months of work he's put in.

Stephanie, on the other hand, is on the scene and has a direct line to Batman. She's chattering in his ear the whole time, to the point that he has to tell her to be quiet because she's distracting him. And when the fight gets going, he tells her repeatedly that he's doing fine, don't come in here, stay in the plane.

She lasts maybe fifteen seconds before abandoning her comms and diving in.

She doesn't wait or consider her options. She doesn't even give their deal so much as a passing thought. She simply assumes that she knows better than him and leaps in without thinking. Which mostly just demonstrates that a) she doesn't trust him which is bad when you're trying to form a partnership, and b) she can't be trusted to follow orders.

Also, frankly, she demonstrates poor judgement by completely misjudging the situation. Bruce does not need her help. Even injured, he's doing just fine. Stephanie rushing in is nothing but a distraction and, ultimately, what loses the fight.

Tim, on the other hand, judged the situation correctly. When he arrives on the scene, Batman (and innocent civilian Vicki Vale, not shown for space) is in trouble. He's been caught by Scarecrow and genuinely needs the back-up because he's being psychologically tortured.

Another parallel is that both Robins wind up in trouble as a result of coming to Batman's rescue. Which makes sense, they're teenagers versus adults with super-tech, training and horrible fear chemicals.

In Tim's case, he gets doused with fear gas (specifically "essence de trauma" because this was back when Scarecrow had specific strains of his stuff) which trapped Tim in an illusion of the very recent attack on his parents. Seriously, this is happening like, the day after they buried his mother.

But! He pulls himself out of it with the help of what might be hallucinations or might be the ghosts of Jason Todd and the Earth-1 Dick Grayson (it's never explained because this was the late 80s and nobody questions this stuff when half the creative staff is running on cocaine.) He then manages to turn the tables on Scarecrow and actually save the day.

Stephanie, on the other hand, gets herself caught.

Which, like I said, loses Batman the fight. And more importantly, it puts Steph's life in danger and she's not able to get herself free.

And it isn't like she doesn't have the opportunity, in-universe. This is where the scene ends, but Bruce recaps on the next page how Scarab, quote, "Left Robin tied up, but alive and uninjured" when she stole the Bat-plane to make her escape.

So, if you're a reasonable person, I hope you can see how there's already multiple strikes against Steph that don't really apply to Tim: she broke the rules thoughtlessly instead of with consideration, she defied direct orders instead of taking initiative on her own, and she completely misjudged the situation, putting herself in danger for no real reason and costing Batman the fight.

But now, we come to the difference that almost everyone overlooks, but I think is the real key to the whole thing: how each Robin behaves in the aftermath.

Because, see, Tim comes to Bruce immediately afterwards and owns up to everything.

I really like this scene because what Tim says here is very deliberate. He doesn't make excuses or try to deny anything. He simply explains himself and then apologizes, fully willing to accept the consequences of his actions.

It's a very mature thing to do. I couldn't have done it at 13. I'm not fully confident I could do it now, at 33. And in return, Bruce says this:

This is the story where Tim earns his wings. In the next two pages, he's given his costume and is officially made the new Robin. And it's because he demonstrates, through his actions in this story, that he understands both the weight of the legacy and the very real responsibility he's about to leap into.

Compare that to how it goes down with Steph.

Like I said in my previous post, despite Bruce saying she'd be out "the precise moment" she disobeyed him, Bruce doesn't fire her immediately after the Scarab incident. Instead, the story skips ahead by three weeks, until after Bruce has recovered from his injuries.

This is something he's shown consciously choosing to do, though he doesn't explain why. I like to think it's to give her time to consider her actions.

Note the difference in the way that Steph behaves: she shows up in her costume, with the standing assumption that they're going to go after Scarab. The only thing that she thinks would've prevented them from doing so is Batman's vision not healing.

She feels "guilty" about him being blinded, but that just demonstrates that she doesn't really understand the situation -- Batman was blinded while she was in the plane. Which implies that what she feels "guilty" about is not disobeying him sooner. The fact that she put herself in danger, the fact that she broke the rules, these things never cross her mind.

You'll note that she doesn't apologize either. Again, it's probably not deliberate, but "I feel so guilty, it was all my fault!" is not the same thing as "I'm sorry." The former is what you say when you're trying (consciously or not) to get the person you've wronged to comfort you. To tell you that it's okay, you didn't mean to do it, everybody messes up so don't feel bad. Which you'll note that Bruce does.

It's only after Steph does this, comes to him acting like nothing's wrong and they just had a little oopsie-daysie on the way to their next rip-roaring adventure, that Bruce finally drops the bomb.

Note the "direct order in the field" specification.

Stephanie only starts to admit that she did something wrong after she realizes she's going to be punished, and even then, she's not apologizing, and she's not owning up to her actions. She's making excuses, trying to wheedle out of the consequences of her own actions. And not once does she ever seem to internalize that she could have died.

And all of this is very in-keeping with her personality as established up to his point.

In short, while the two situations are very similar, Stephanie's actually demonstrates the exact opposite of Tim's: even after years of being Spoiler and multiple occasions where her own life, civilian lives, and the lives of people she supposedly cares for have been on the line, she's still treating this all as a game where the most important aspect of the outcome is how she feels about it. It's not just that she made "one mistake," this is part of a pattern for her, one that demonstrates very aptly that she does not understand the danger she's putting herself in, doesn't respect the guidance of the people who are trying to teach her, and frankly, has no interest in ever getting better, because she doesn't think she has a problem.

It can't be her fault, after all. She just made a little mistake! It's everyone else who're being unfair to her, holding her to rules and agreements she never meant to honor, and they'll all see as soon as she can prove them wrong...

And we all know where that leads.

Now, there are people who believe that this entire issue is simply unfair to Stephanie. And yeah, there's an entirely different discussion to be had about the out-of-universe decisions surrounding this story, the intention of the creators, etc. But I think everything that happens here in Robin #126 is as in-keeping for Steph's personality as the events of Batman #457 are for Tim. And I believe that, in both, Bruce's reasoning is fair and based on sound judgement, not sexism.

It has been a while since I had read a comic run where Bruce praises someone to their face so consistently. Specially with how little appearances she has.

And he's also the opposite of antagonistic towards her. He's relaxed, he's making jokes.

I feel like he likes her, but still thinks she shouldn't be a vigilante.

Yes! Exactly! That's true of most adult superheroes in Steph's life TBH. She might've gotten a lot of, "Go home, Stephanie, you shouldn't be here" in her early days, but by this point in the story, what she'd been hearing for years was:

"Good work, kid, you've got a lot of potential. You're just not quite there yet, keep working."

So, just as a reminder, this is the deal that Stephanie and Bruce make when he agrees to let her be Robin:

"You're on probation. You don't learn any of the big secrets. And the first time you disobey my orders, is the precise moment you're out. No second chances."

Here's what makes this interesting: Tim also had a probationary period. It took place between 1989's "A Lonely Place of Dying" storyline and 1991's Robin miniseries, happening in scattered pieces across bits of Batman, Detective Comics, and other associated books.

Aside from changes in comm-tech between 1989 and 2003, there's only two major differences between Steph's probationary period and Tim's. First, Tim already knew the biggest of the Big Secrets, so he gets moments of interacting with Bruce and Alfred in civilian mode and even stays with them during school holidays. And second, Tim was not allowed his own costume and was forbidden from going out on patrol. Presumably, this second difference comes from a mix of Bruce's implied scheme to lure Tim back, Steph already having copious experience on the streets as Spoiler, and just general management of their differing personalities.

The important thing is, during this time, Tim was under the same restrictions as Steph: stay out of this fight, and if you disobey me you're gone. And there came a time, right at the end, where Batman wound up in a dangerous situation versus a supervillain (in this case, Scarecrow) and the would-be Robin chose to break the rules. What's interesting is the parallels and differences between the two scenes, and how, if you're paying attention, they're pretty consistent, despite their very different endings.

For one, in Tim's case, he's not initially on the scene, and he doesn't have contact with Bruce (like I said, 1980's comm-tech -- Oracle wasn't even a thing yet). This means that he isn't defying direct orders when he chooses to act. And he doesn't rush in himself right off the bat -- his first choice is actually to dial up Commissioner Gordon on the landline.

It's only after he runs out of ways to get a hold of Batman and warn him of the danger that he makes the decision to go out. And he does so very conscious of the fact that this is going to cost him Robin, in spite of the months of work he's put in.

Stephanie, on the other hand, is on the scene and has a direct line to Batman. She's chattering in his ear the whole time, to the point that he has to tell her to be quiet because she's distracting him. And when the fight gets going, he tells her repeatedly that he's doing fine, don't come in here, stay in the plane.

She lasts maybe fifteen seconds before abandoning her comms and diving in.

She doesn't wait or consider her options. She doesn't even give their deal so much as a passing thought. She simply assumes that she knows better than him and leaps in without thinking. Which mostly just demonstrates that a) she doesn't trust him which is bad when you're trying to form a partnership, and b) she can't be trusted to follow orders.

Also, frankly, she demonstrates poor judgement by completely misjudging the situation. Bruce does not need her help. Even injured, he's doing just fine. Stephanie rushing in is nothing but a distraction and, ultimately, what loses the fight.

Tim, on the other hand, judged the situation correctly. When he arrives on the scene, Batman (and innocent civilian Vicki Vale, not shown for space) is in trouble. He's been caught by Scarecrow and genuinely needs the back-up because he's being psychologically tortured.

Another parallel is that both Robins wind up in trouble as a result of coming to Batman's rescue. Which makes sense, they're teenagers versus adults with super-tech, training and horrible fear chemicals.

In Tim's case, he gets doused with fear gas (specifically "essence de trauma" because this was back when Scarecrow had specific strains of his stuff) which trapped Tim in an illusion of the very recent attack on his parents. Seriously, this is happening like, the day after they buried his mother.

But! He pulls himself out of it with the help of what might be hallucinations or might be the ghosts of Jason Todd and the Earth-1 Dick Grayson (it's never explained because this was the late 80s and nobody questions this stuff when half the creative staff is running on cocaine.) He then manages to turn the tables on Scarecrow and actually save the day.

Stephanie, on the other hand, gets herself caught.

Which, like I said, loses Batman the fight. And more importantly, it puts Steph's life in danger and she's not able to get herself free.

And it isn't like she doesn't have the opportunity, in-universe. This is where the scene ends, but Bruce recaps on the next page how Scarab, quote, "Left Robin tied up, but alive and uninjured" when she stole the Bat-plane to make her escape.

So, if you're a reasonable person, I hope you can see how there's already multiple strikes against Steph that don't really apply to Tim: she broke the rules thoughtlessly instead of with consideration, she defied direct orders instead of taking initiative on her own, and she completely misjudged the situation, putting herself in danger for no real reason and costing Batman the fight.

But now, we come to the difference that almost everyone overlooks, but I think is the real key to the whole thing: how each Robin behaves in the aftermath.

Because, see, Tim comes to Bruce immediately afterwards and owns up to everything.

I really like this scene because what Tim says here is very deliberate. He doesn't make excuses or try to deny anything. He simply explains himself and then apologizes, fully willing to accept the consequences of his actions.

It's a very mature thing to do. I couldn't have done it at 13. I'm not fully confident I could do it now, at 33. And in return, Bruce says this:

This is the story where Tim earns his wings. In the next two pages, he's given his costume and is officially made the new Robin. And it's because he demonstrates, through his actions in this story, that he understands both the weight of the legacy and the very real responsibility he's about to leap into.

Compare that to how it goes down with Steph.

Like I said in my previous post, despite Bruce saying she'd be out "the precise moment" she disobeyed him, Bruce doesn't fire her immediately after the Scarab incident. Instead, the story skips ahead by three weeks, until after Bruce has recovered from his injuries.

This is something he's shown consciously choosing to do, though he doesn't explain why. I like to think it's to give her time to consider her actions.

Note the difference in the way that Steph behaves: she shows up in her costume, with the standing assumption that they're going to go after Scarab. The only thing that she thinks would've prevented them from doing so is Batman's vision not healing.

She feels "guilty" about him being blinded, but that just demonstrates that she doesn't really understand the situation -- Batman was blinded while she was in the plane. Which implies that what she feels "guilty" about is not disobeying him sooner. The fact that she put herself in danger, the fact that she broke the rules, these things never cross her mind.

You'll note that she doesn't apologize either. Again, it's probably not deliberate, but "I feel so guilty, it was all my fault!" is not the same thing as "I'm sorry." The former is what you say when you're trying (consciously or not) to get the person you've wronged to comfort you. To tell you that it's okay, you didn't mean to do it, everybody messes up so don't feel bad. Which you'll note that Bruce does.

It's only after Steph does this, comes to him acting like nothing's wrong and they just had a little oopsie-daysie on the way to their next rip-roaring adventure, that Bruce finally drops the bomb.

Note the "direct order in the field" specification.

Stephanie only starts to admit that she did something wrong after she realizes she's going to be punished, and even then, she's not apologizing, and she's not owning up to her actions. She's making excuses, trying to wheedle out of the consequences of her own actions. And not once does she ever seem to internalize that she could have died.

And all of this is very in-keeping with her personality as established up to his point.

In short, while the two situations are very similar, Stephanie's actually demonstrates the exact opposite of Tim's: even after years of being Spoiler and multiple occasions where her own life, civilian lives, and the lives of people she supposedly cares for have been on the line, she's still treating this all as a game where the most important aspect of the outcome is how she feels about it. It's not just that she made "one mistake," this is part of a pattern for her, one that demonstrates very aptly that she does not understand the danger she's putting herself in, doesn't respect the guidance of the people who are trying to teach her, and frankly, has no interest in ever getting better, because she doesn't think she has a problem.

It can't be her fault, after all. She just made a little mistake! It's everyone else who're being unfair to her, holding her to rules and agreements she never meant to honor, and they'll all see as soon as she can prove them wrong...

And we all know where that leads.

Now, there are people who believe that this entire issue is simply unfair to Stephanie. And yeah, there's an entirely different discussion to be had about the out-of-universe decisions surrounding this story, the intention of the creators, etc. But I think everything that happens here in Robin #126 is as in-keeping for Steph's personality as the events of Batman #457 are for Tim. And I believe that, in both, Bruce's reasoning is fair and based on sound judgement, not sexism.

Earth-One while having its own quirks continues to be relevant to the present day (and while it contributes to the Helena Wayne retcon oddities, it’s still a specific timeline that turns up)

Pre-Crisis Earth-Two became Post-Crisis pretty smoothly. Aside from resetting Jason (and tbf most people use the latter version anyway) and concreting a modernised version of Bruce’s origin, the history and events are remarkably unchanged compared to other properties. There are, don’t get me wrong, changes, but mostly on the ‘reinterpretation of events’ level more than ‘we rewrote whole swathes of story and threw out huge chunks of existing canon’.

The scramble to attempt to retain essentially all of Bat canon in n52 actually created a bunch of the biggest pressures on that timeline. ‘Make Bat canon return to normal’ was basically the thrust of Tynion’s Tec run at the start of Rebirth, and other properties have consistently navigated around the Bats trying to fix stuff.

If you compare even the biggest ‘problems’ with Bat comics and timelines (a bunch of weirdness around Thomas Wayne generally, n52!Tim, Cass and Steph not existing for a bit, arguments over Jason’s personality as Robin) it is NOTHING compared to say “what is Hawkpeople lore, are they aliens, how do their rebirths work” or “does Donna Troy have a backstory? Which one? What memories are real?” or “what’s going on with the JSA, time travel, The Trinity, and how are half of them alive?” or “exactly what is Power Girl’s current name and backstory” etc

There ARE issues, but of the big ones people are pretty aware of the tension points and how to tug them into a reasonably coherent story, and most of the smaller ones are navigated by people just choosing not to look too closely.

because it's genuinely insane the things i've heard americans say 'america doesn't have' when it's just factually incorrect.

for some perspective: during my longest move i did by-car in the u.s., i drove ~3,000 miles. That's ~4,800 km. It took nearly 50 hours drive-times alone. Meaning, if I could have driven without stopping once, it would have taken nearly 50 hours. Of course I split that up over several days.

Driving that same distance here, If there's a ferry+road from Rabat (in Morocco) to Kyiv (Ukraine), I could take it and keep on going another several hours.

So you can understand how silly it is for someone from the u.s. to be asked to answer a question on behalf of the entirety of the u.s.—geographically, culturally, etc.

So now that we've said all that, I need you to know that I listened to a guy from Idaho tell an Irish person today, "yeah, we just don't really get snails much in America."

"Mfinda", an upcoming African-American-Japanese feature film produced by N LITE.