i read the 2021 jvp tisha b'av thing
(it's available to read here)
couldn't you invoke it in service of. like. stopping antisemitism?
yeah okay completely fair. absolute agreement. tisha b'av is about mourning for jewish history
why. "don't talk about palestine for one fucking page" challenge failed. can't we mourn our own things rebekah erev? can't we grieve for us?
the page after also fails the "don't talk about palestine for one fucking page" challenge. if you're wondering.
we are one-seventh of the way through. jewish grief and suffering has not been mentioned.
#4 also talks about palestine.
i am going to throw something wendy.
(the black bar is not mine it's theirs. no i don't know why they felt the need to make it look redacted.)
melissa. please. PLEASE let us have a day of mourning that doesn't mention palestinians. that predates palestinians. that has nothing to do with palestinians.
jo kent katz suggests saying kaddish. i get my hopes up. she talks about why it's good. my hopes go higher.
NOT EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE ABOUT PALESTINE JO
thank you to jade brooks for not mentioning palestine. this should not be difficult. thank you to judith norman for not bringing palestine into cleaning.
no thank you to lena ruth sclove for deciding you can't meditate without palestine
Beth that's the quiet part. Beth you're not supposed to say you're happy jews died yet. c'mon Beth. Beth this is Tisha B'av, you're still paying lip service to the idea of Jews dying as being bad.
well when you tie your identity to victimhood and oppression and when that is the cornerstone of your separation from the broader ethnic group yes that would make sense, your narrative is being reaffirmed and that is a very powerful thing.
rebecca fox keeps palestine out of sewing. thank you rebecca
now, to be fair, my high ground is limited because i don't plan on fasting on tisha b'av, but i don't plan on making a big deal out of cooking either.
Yeah. You know what, Beth? You're right. I am mad. I am mad that you choose to take Judaism and twist it into knots to make it all about Palestine. I am mad that you and your (mostly Gentile organization which @aqlstar has documented being extremely awful) organization refuse to let Jewish rituals and prayers exist as they are. I am mad that you market yourself to a goyish audience as Jewish. I am mad at the nature of what you do. I am mad that media coverage of Judaism has in many cases been co-opted by organizations like yours, Jewish Autism Speaks'.
I am mad, Beth. I am full of rage. Rage at you.
And "Rabbi" Lynn Gottlieb
Well maybe they wouldn't be traumatized if they stopped going to your synagogues and pretending to be Jewish would they now.
Okay, but for real: if you are traumatized by the existence of a language rather than what is being conveyed, that is your fucking problem. Trauma is not a force-the-world-to-bend-to-your-will card, especially not when you show up in other people's spaces, knowing there is a high risk of that trigger being present. Expecting Jews to change our practices for the comfort of non-Jews in Jewish spaces is, dare I say it, colonialist.
Also, wait, English, that famously untraumatizing language? That language with no history of oppression?
The FUCK. I could kind of get English. I'd prefer "the vernacular language", but since for about half of Jews that is Hebrew, I can see Lynn's concern. But there is a defense of English.
There is no defense for using Arabic. There is no defense for demanding Jewish tradition bend and twist to fit those who infiltrate Jewish spaces. There is no defense for requiring Jews to use the tongue of the oppressor simply to be allowed to do whatever bastardized version of "prayer" the infiltrators so kindly deign to allow us. There is no defense for demanding we use a more recent language, untied to our history and past.
It's not taking it. Palestinian identity formation, as even Palestinian historians accept, formed in the mid-to-late 1800s. If there are similarities in traditions, that is either an independent convergence, or the result of Palestinian appropriation of Jewish things. I don't know which, necessarily.
it is the last proposed "technology" and we are finally at a proper tradition for Tisha B'av.
It doesn't. Jewish days of mourning and holidays and traditions exist independent of Palestinians. They are not tied to Palestinians, except inasmuch as they are tied to eretz Yisrael. We don't need to change our religion to meet whatever impossible standard the non-Jews around us demand, whether it's a Communist Judaism, a nationalist Judaism, or a pro-Palestinian Judaism. Judaism predates Communism, nationalism and Palestinians.
Tisha B'av commemorates something that happened in Judea, when Jews were the vast majority of residents. It's not pro-Palestinian, and that's okay. This idea that Jewish traditions and practices need to be approved of by non-Jews is not only erasing us, it's quixotic. There will always be one more Jewish practice to be erased, one last bit of capitalism or universalism or Zionism.
The last words that they have on Tisha B'av are not anything about the many things we could mourn on that day -- the loss of our independence, our exile from our indigenous homeland, our expulsion from Spain, the start of the First Crusade, or any of the other things that happened on Tisha B'av. No, they are about Palestine.
I don't want to say that this isn't Jewish, because I know that some frum Jews think Reform Jews aren't really Jewish, and I recognize the logic is very similar. But...if you use your "Jewish traditions" merely to push whatever agenda you've already decided on, if you erase Jews and the tragedies that have befallen Jews on a day devoted to commemorating that -- I'm going to look at you with suspicion, and I'm going to read about the Association of German National [warning: Wikipedia] Jews again.