Shelby Is Not Naive, Or: Everyone Cares Too Much About Scott Goldsmith
Shelby fully expects the people of Oakhurst to kill her at the first opportunity. Shelby is so invested in the coven and so willing to excuse the flaws of other vampires because she has bought into the idea that the humans can and will hurt her at the first opportunity. There are many reasons for this, but Scott Goldsmith is not one of them.
Scott is her bestie because he stands still and says nice things while everyone else is running around introducing her to new and exciting forms of torment nexus. It is a âluigi wins by doing nothingâ ass situation.
Once Shelby is turned, it becomes nearly impossible for her to talk to a human without being threatened. Many social interactions from the very instant she walks back into town after the fishing trip are shadowed by someone openly planning to hurt or kill vampires.Â
Avid tries to test if sheâs repelled by silver and then starts building a jail cell in front of her. Apo isnât directly threatening, but basically comes to Shelby with the hypothetical âwhat if there was an evil vampireâ. And then they emphasize the importance of keeping a stake at hand.Â
Shelby asks Ren if theyâll really have to fight each other, and Ren says that itâs just the way of the world. Sausage emphasizes the point by yelling âstab them all until theyâre dead!â, which isnât really a great thing to hear when you are one of the âthemâ in question.
Eventually, Apo gets turned, and most of the vampires convene at the beacon, where Martyn burns her alive.
Let me repeat that: she burns alive.Â
The video editing emphasizes this as a big deal. Shelbyâs narration in the aftermath concludes that âif i asked for a chance to talk, they would have just killed me without a second thought.â From Shelbyâs perspective, they did just kill her without a second thought. It is the climax of their episode 3, and one of the first things Shelby mentions in episode 4. It is a major turning point for the character, with good reason.
As far as Shelby is concerned, the vampire vs human conflict began with her experiencing a horrific death for the grand crime of crouching next to a beacon.Â
From this point forward, non threatening interactions with humans vanish almost entirely.Â
The only conversation Shelby has with a human is episode 4 is her face to face with Avid, which has high points and low points. The low points include Avid telling her about staking his partner because she attacked him.
Shelby, does, however, visit the town later, where she finds Avid burning her house down.
And then Legundo reads the cure book in front of the houseâs ashes.Â
Legundo also scolds Avid for burning down the house, but Shelby misses that part. In fact, Shelby missed all of the pro Shelby comments made in the town around that time.Â
According to the post series creatorâs commentary, (which i canât link because twitch deletes old vods so it probably no longer exists aajfas;llllldg) this isnât even a matter of clever editing- Shubble was legitimately out of range for all of the parts of the story where people agreed that they wanted to help Shelby.Â
In episode 5, she is approached by a group of Drift, Cleo, and Pearl. Shelby is surrounded, and asks them to put their swords away. Pearl takes a minute to do so, and when she does she switches to a bottle of holy water. Shelby backs away and Pearl moves forward.Â
The start of this conversation very much has shades of an interrogation: âwhy do you look so different? Did you eat truffle?âÂ
Shelby tells them about being burnt alive, and the response she gets from Cleo is âbut you got betterâ. Which sucks, and serves as an ironic mirror for the way that Scott and Owen are dismissive about the trauma involved with turning people. Both factions are expecting Shelby to just walk off the wrongs done to them, but the Oakhurst faction is openly threatening future harm to Shelby. Â
Of the three of them, Drift is the most supportive. The conversation improves from there, and some nice things are said, but Shelby was still threatened. It was still the preamble to the nice and productive part of the talks.Â
Then she has the meeting with Avid where he asks to be turned, which goes fairly well but ends with Avid being decidedly non human. Also Owen replaced one of Avidâs messages to Shelby with a death threat, so Shelby was still threatened over it.Â
Episode 6 has the Oakhurst invasion where all of the vampires visit Oakhurst and Pearl gets chased around. Shelby doesnât really talk to anyone here, but she sure does get to hear Pearl make a generalized threat. Because Shelby can never catch a break.
We also see another instance of Shelby assuming that the townies are after her: her narration says âi thought Pearl was chasing meâ
Then thereâs a conversation with Sausage. Sausage pulls out a stake because of course he does.Â
Then Drift pulls Shelby aside, and they have a lovely chat where there are no threats of bodily harm. However, Drift is a vampire, so it doesnât count. Rip.Â
When Avid starts talking about the cure, Shelbyâs immediate assumption is that if Avid asks to be cured, the humans will stake her without a second thought. She also is the one to suggest sabotaging the cure for the sake of protecting herself and the other vampires.Â
Episode 7 sees Shelby dealing with humans twice, and both of them are decidedly hostile interactions
The first bit of human contact comes when the vampires burn down the walls of Oakhurst. This is, naturally, open combat. Shelby makes a point of targeting Martyn.
Her second human interaction in episode 7 is running into Abolish, who promptly introduces her to the Veylocke murder box. In other words, Shelby is stunned, rendered immobile and helpless, and executed in cold blood. It is not an easy death.
Abolish even acknowledges that she didnât do anything, and then kills her anyway.Â
episode 8 is the finale, where she fights some humans, hides from humans, eventually has a truce with humans for the first time ever, and then wanders off into the sunset with Drift and Scott.
Thatâs basically all of Shelbyâs major human interactions post episode 3. There is never an instance where speaking to a human is not linked with being threatened by a human after that point.Â
For the most part, this is entirely the result of the people of Oakhurstâs own priorities and character choices, but there is one vampire that tries to make sure that Shelby canât talk to the humans. Someone that tries to isolate her, someone that uses threats, someone that is willing to lie to keep Shelby in the castle and away from town.Â
That person is Owen.Â
Owen interferes with Shelby speaking to townsfolk three times, to mixed results: he joins the conversation with Apo and successfully diverts them from trying to convince Shelby sheâs wanted in town; he replaces Avidâs letter with a threatening message, but Avid manages to set up a meeting with Shelby and clear the air with her anyway; and he appears in the Pearl-Drift-Cleo meeting with Shelby in episode 5, which arguably improves the situation because he took the conversation in a useful direction and Shelby had already felt threatened anyway.
âŚactually, all three of these things happen in episode 5. Owen has a very brief window of being invested in the coven in this particular way. He does some pretty nasty lying in that window, though.Â
While this could be an interesting plot thread, Owenâs contributions are something of a cigarette in a burning warehouse. Shelby got killed twice as collateral damage, and both deaths were exceptionally traumatic. No amount of intercession on Owenâs part is going to speak louder than the wrongs done to Shelby by the humans themselves. No amount of lying on Oakhurstâs behalf is more damning then Oakhurstâs own failure to address the damage theyâve done in any way. Heâs burying a relationship so far underground it is already in hell.Â
Even seemingly minor things like Pearlâs tendency to casually arm herself do more to damage Oakhurstâs reputation then Owen is really capable of- there is a direct line of cause and effect between Pearl saying she has a stake and Shelby assuming that Pearl is chasing her down. Shelby is rightfully skeptical of the claims Owen makes about other people, but when someone else is making those kinds of statements, she tends to believe them.Â
And then thereâs Shelbyâs backstory.Â
Shelbyâs backstory, where she is isolated from her entire community growing up. Where people she considered friends and neighbors didnât care about her in turn. Where nobody had even done something as basic as telling her that sheâs fun to be around.Â
 Of course Shelby thinks that Oakhurst is willing to write her off at the drop of a hat. Thatâs what her hometown did.Â
In conclusion
1: the town is not blameless in the Oakhurst vs Castle conflict. They have done real harm to the Coven, and most of it has fallen on their friendliest and least aggressive member.
2: Shelby is indeed afraid and isolated, but the bulk of that fear and isolation is generated and maintained by the people of Oakhurst themselves. The one time Scott had an opportunity to sabotage one of Shelbyâs outside relationships, he chooses not to.
3: Scott is Shelbyâs first friend, ever, and the feeling is mutual. This is a key component of why Shelby is Like That.Â
4: The answer to most gripes regarding vsmpâs story arc and ending is Shelby. Why did Scott live and Pyro die? Shelby. Why did Scott suddenly pivot to pacifism? Shelby. Why canât the humans just wipe out the coven and call it a day? Shelby. Why was the coven a legitimate social structure in the first place? Thatâs also Shelby. Itâs Shelby all the way down.
In Shelbyâs story, Scott is the prize she wins for her kindness and Pyro becomes the avatar of all of the senseless violence she has suffered.Â
Shelbyâs character arc is one of being the collateral damage of other peopleâs agendas so frequently that she becomes convinced that she must use violence herself. This culminates in her killing the most direct and personal threat to her physical safety, which is Pyro. Shelbyâs other character arc is about seeking peace and companionship despite the bloodshed around her. This culminates in her turning her closest companion from the path of violence, and that companion happens to be Scott. Scott and Pyroâs conclusions are mirrored halves of Shelbyâs finale, and reflect Shelbyâs greatest triumph and lowest low.
The outcomes they get make sense if you position Shelby as the central character, and her choices were the ones that decided their fates.Â
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i think i figured out the contradiction between the rebels not wanting to kill the dragon riders, and their use of an incredibly deadly poison.
(and also putting a hit on them, attacking them at every opportunity, ect ect)
the "weakened" and "suppressed" they want the students of the academy to be at is specifically the weakness that comes from dying and being revived by their dragon.
magically weaker, closer to death, more easily killed for good, all of that.
they can use poison rot and call it a "distraction", because they know that the students have multiple lives. they can justify their attacks as fair because they tell themselves that their victims will just "come back" if they succeed.
they either don't know or don't care that they are doing permanent damage, both to their own position and to the people they are attacking
(I'll get to the ones you keep leaving in my inbox I promise! Just have been feeling bleh)
Take your time, no rush! I do tend to throw these presents everywhere when I see them lol
Took a brief break from my main fic to start working on a oneshot for my Stardew Valley Trustbites AU, which probably appeals to no one but me haha
âI see.â Legundo puts his hand on either side of Owenâs neck to check his lymph nodes, and while heâs there, Owen feels the doctorâs eyes linger on the blotchy, mottled skin peeking out from under his collar at the hollow of his throat.
@jackdaw-sprite âsurely this wonât spiralâ is the eternal prayer of fanfic writers everywhere
And LOL I love that idea! Dr Legs, famously skeptical of all things magic, now living in a magical valley where Weird Things Happen and he just has to go with it đ
âWow Doc, this potion is some really powerful stuff! Your magical skills are coming along!â
âITâS NOT MAGIC, FOR THE LAST TIME, JUST BECAUSE I BREWED IT IN A CAULDRON THAT DOESNâT MAKE IT A MAGIC POTION, ITâS MEDICINE.â
...Scott Goldsmith as that guy in the woods handing out questionable potions to random farmers and teaching everyone magic. calls Legs "my apprentice". also he owns a casino and puts weird shit in the mines because it amuses him.
Shelby and Drift co run the adventurers guild. Shelby is very enthusiastic about the various magic items just "appearing" in the mines.
Pyro is the blacksmisth. people keep commissioning him to make iridium products. "isn't iridum radioactive?" he asks. no one listens.
(Pyro is pretty sure Scott is putting weird things in geodes just to mess with him. this is the third haunted doll this week. where do they keep coming from)
Abolish as the Fisherman to be as far from town (and it's craziness) as possible.
Apo is Joja For The Dynamic (sorry girl ily but it makes the rest of this funnier), Pearl technically runs the general store but is 50/50 with Cleo the rancher. They both have a rivalry with Apo.
Scott is the traveling salesperson. Which one? All of them. Vastly overpriced goods at (likely) an insane markup? "One of a kind" items that show up every year? He's your guy! He can talk you into buying almost anything, and the stuff he can't sell he leaves in the mines For the Whimsey of It All.
...okay, Joja Apo is inspired. when the store gets shut down they get reassigned to the mushroom cave on Ginger Island. someone free them from this hell.
(Apo took Truffle with her when she got reassigned. Pyro was devastated)
i can also see general store Pyro and Blacksmith Pearl- Cleo complains extensively about Pyro being closed on Wednesdays, and Pearl is disturbingly cavalier about the valley's strange ores. she sees something glowing bright green on the table and goes, "oh, what a lovely color!"
Oscar is a mummified cat that Pearl found in an Ancient Trove one time
ohhhhh, evil thought: Scott keeps doves. they are beautiful and immaculately kept, and help him with his work. you can even use them as a mail service, if you like.
ok but imagine: established Bloodloathing as starter vamps
No solid thoughts on the details, but like they are definitely Divorced (maybe literally)
For some reason Legundo has been drawn back to Oakhurst. Maybe he hears Scott is dead, and there was something that Scott had that Legs wants from the ruins of the castle.
So he walks into town and is blending in, playing the kind, skeptical doctor, getting along with people.
ok now Iâm thinking like, Scott gets revealed to be a vampire, but the whole asleep for 600years thing hasnât come up yet, so Legs is still incognito.
and Iâm just imagining a conversation in town like
Cleo: so, heâs your ex?
Legs: yep.
Cleo: and yet, you hard committed to the âvampires arenât realâ bit.
Thank you @mytoomanybookstoread for lovingly crafting me some blorbo torment
âheâs not equipped to do couples counselling or divorce courtâ lol Abolishâs âIâm not paid enough for this shitâ level gets freaking tripled here
abolish and legsâ dynamic would be so funny pre vampire reveal too. Because rather than getting Abolish gently coaxing the Doc to be a little more open minded about the supernatural, weâd have Abolish just dropping subtle lines that hint that he knows *exactly* whatâs going on with Legs and Scott, and he is both threatening and sympathetic.
(I'll get to the ones you keep leaving in my inbox I promise! Just have been feeling bleh)
Take your time, no rush! I do tend to throw these presents everywhere when I see them lol
Took a brief break from my main fic to start working on a oneshot for my Stardew Valley Trustbites AU, which probably appeals to no one but me haha
âI see.â Legundo puts his hand on either side of Owenâs neck to check his lymph nodes, and while heâs there, Owen feels the doctorâs eyes linger on the blotchy, mottled skin peeking out from under his collar at the hollow of his throat.
@jackdaw-sprite âsurely this wonât spiralâ is the eternal prayer of fanfic writers everywhere
And LOL I love that idea! Dr Legs, famously skeptical of all things magic, now living in a magical valley where Weird Things Happen and he just has to go with it đ
âWow Doc, this potion is some really powerful stuff! Your magical skills are coming along!â
âITâS NOT MAGIC, FOR THE LAST TIME, JUST BECAUSE I BREWED IT IN A CAULDRON THAT DOESNâT MAKE IT A MAGIC POTION, ITâS MEDICINE.â
...Scott Goldsmith as that guy in the woods handing out questionable potions to random farmers and teaching everyone magic. calls Legs "my apprentice". also he owns a casino and puts weird shit in the mines because it amuses him.
Shelby and Drift co run the adventurers guild. Shelby is very enthusiastic about the various magic items just "appearing" in the mines.
Pyro is the blacksmisth. people keep commissioning him to make iridium products. "isn't iridum radioactive?" he asks. no one listens.
(Pyro is pretty sure Scott is putting weird things in geodes just to mess with him. this is the third haunted doll this week. where do they keep coming from)
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I have given myself the world's most horrendous idea:
After the series, Legs goes to that town in hopes that one of the survivors will kill him if he asks. And they do!
But they're not going to stake him or burn him at the stake, what on earth? Both of those things are horrible. Anyway, poisoning him is much more fitting. Shooting him is easier. Hanging him is more of the Done Execution at the time.
...anyway. Legs who is trying to get the survivors of the town he destroyed to kill him, and the survivors of the town who are discovering that he doesn't stay dead.
Because the thing is, when I was watching Legs try, over and over, to find some kind of peaceful resolution, try to talk people down even at the risk of his own life, to physically put himself, unarmed, in situations that could have gotten him killed in order to try and stop the brewing violence, I saw a man twenty years removed from the man who killed thousands of people on orders.
I got attached.
I wanted him to have done enough, changed enough to make up for it. I wanted him to have a happy ending, even if it was pretty clear he wouldn't get one.
The character of Dr. Legundo, in the series, asks the question of if there are things a human being can do that are so utterly vile that they can never, ever mend them, grow from them to become a person worthy of forgiveness (or, if you care to frame it in another way, to find redemption.)
And he asks, "If the answer is no, that you have gone far past the point of no return...what if you try, anyway? What if you give everything of yourself to others, over and over--"
.
Because the thing is, the framing of the series asks these things severed from the true context of what he did. The audience had a stronger reaction to Avid's murder than the revelation that Dr. Legundo had, in his past, done the same more than five thousand times over. Because those numbers are distant, and abstract. Those numbers are not people; we do not see the shape of what he wrought, only what it made of him.
This is fine. It is not a story about Dr. Legundo's guilt. It is a story about 14 people made rats in a trap, and how the nights draw long and bloody as the noose closes around their throats.
But it might be worth it, to bring that back into focus. To show the crumbling grave of thousands, to show the shattered remains of the survivors, still scarred, still burned, ghosts in their own right and ask the question again, reversed:
Is there? Is there anything a single man can do to earn forgiveness for this?
When he caused it? When he's the reason the home you had is a moldering corpse? When the community you had is shattered beyond repair? When the people who were neighbors are scattered to the wind, if they don't reside forever in the graveyard that burst its banks decades ago?
When everyone who remembers it never recovered, just patched themselves together enough to make it through each day?
.
(Would it be like draining infection from a wound? Or would it be like dancing on a broken bone that never healed?)
...i mean, if the personal author of a recent and devastating act of mass destruction showed up in my community and asked to be killed for it, my reactions in order would roughly be a) this is obviously a trap, b) how dare you show up and make your guilt my problem, and c) if you feel so bad about maybe actually try to do something that actually improves the situation. you can't make up for it but somebody has to do the laundry.
there's also the greater political situation at hand- given that Legundo was given a medal, he was presumably on the winning side of the war he was in. the war where there was a public ceremony declaring the entire village to be "enemy soldiers". which means this new village of survivors has almost certainly been offered no restitution or even public acknowledgement of wrongdoing in the first place. in which case the guilt ridden is-that-a-fucking-ghost of the soldier that actually applied the poison may be the least of the villagers problems!
and also the only outside validation or acknowledgement of wrongdoing that the villagers have actually received, ever.
(which isn't to say that none of the villagers are down with plan "kill the soldier", or are more then fine with simply hating Legs for what he represents. but if we're acknowledging the personhood of Legundo's victims, we should also acknowledge that those persons are messy and complicated and do in fact have priorities outside of the Doc's personal torment nexus)
...actually, come to think of it, you know what a recently devastated community is really unlikely to have? what they might desperately need but probably cannot afford on account of them being rare and expensive?
I have given myself the world's most horrendous idea:
After the series, Legs goes to that town in hopes that one of the survivors will kill him if he asks. And they do!
But they're not going to stake him or burn him at the stake, what on earth? Both of those things are horrible. Anyway, poisoning him is much more fitting. Shooting him is easier. Hanging him is more of the Done Execution at the time.
...anyway. Legs who is trying to get the survivors of the town he destroyed to kill him, and the survivors of the town who are discovering that he doesn't stay dead.
Because the thing is, when I was watching Legs try, over and over, to find some kind of peaceful resolution, try to talk people down even at the risk of his own life, to physically put himself, unarmed, in situations that could have gotten him killed in order to try and stop the brewing violence, I saw a man twenty years removed from the man who killed thousands of people on orders.
I got attached.
I wanted him to have done enough, changed enough to make up for it. I wanted him to have a happy ending, even if it was pretty clear he wouldn't get one.
The character of Dr. Legundo, in the series, asks the question of if there are things a human being can do that are so utterly vile that they can never, ever mend them, grow from them to become a person worthy of forgiveness (or, if you care to frame it in another way, to find redemption.)
And he asks, "If the answer is no, that you have gone far past the point of no return...what if you try, anyway? What if you give everything of yourself to others, over and over--"
.
Because the thing is, the framing of the series asks these things severed from the true context of what he did. The audience had a stronger reaction to Avid's murder than the revelation that Dr. Legundo had, in his past, done the same more than five thousand times over. Because those numbers are distant, and abstract. Those numbers are not people; we do not see the shape of what he wrought, only what it made of him.
This is fine. It is not a story about Dr. Legundo's guilt. It is a story about 14 people made rats in a trap, and how the nights draw long and bloody as the noose closes around their throats.
But it might be worth it, to bring that back into focus. To show the crumbling grave of thousands, to show the shattered remains of the survivors, still scarred, still burned, ghosts in their own right and ask the question again, reversed:
Is there? Is there anything a single man can do to earn forgiveness for this?
When he caused it? When he's the reason the home you had is a moldering corpse? When the community you had is shattered beyond repair? When the people who were neighbors are scattered to the wind, if they don't reside forever in the graveyard that burst its banks decades ago?
When everyone who remembers it never recovered, just patched themselves together enough to make it through each day?
.
(Would it be like draining infection from a wound? Or would it be like dancing on a broken bone that never healed?)
...i mean, if the personal author of a recent and devastating act of mass destruction showed up in my community and asked to be killed for it, my reactions in order would roughly be a) this is obviously a trap, b) how dare you show up and make your guilt my problem, and c) if you feel so bad about maybe actually try to do something that actually improves the situation. you can't make up for it but somebody has to do the laundry.
there's also the greater political situation at hand- given that Legundo was given a medal, he was presumably on the winning side of the war he was in. the war where there was a public ceremony declaring the entire village to be "enemy soldiers". which means this new village of survivors has almost certainly been offered no restitution or even public acknowledgement of wrongdoing in the first place. in which case the guilt ridden is-that-a-fucking-ghost of the soldier that actually applied the poison may be the least of the villagers problems!
and also the only outside validation or acknowledgement of wrongdoing that the villagers have actually received, ever.
(which isn't to say that none of the villagers are down with plan "kill the soldier", or are more then fine with simply hating Legs for what he represents. but if we're acknowledging the personhood of Legundo's victims, we should also acknowledge that those persons are messy and complicated and do in fact have priorities outside of the Doc's personal torment nexus)
don't you hate it when ur coworker that you may or may not have a crush on turns out to be the among us imposter and starts cosplaying as themselves pre-incident ughh
If Flowery ever comes back I want him to be in a wheelchair and I want there to specifically be a bit where heâs near some stairs and heâd say something like âYouâd think the dark worlds would be wheelchair accessible.â
And then he makes a slope next to the stairs for his wheelchair to go up.
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Have an OC whose a vampire thrall to an elder vamp
The main thing is that my vampire elder has the ability to mess with his senses and take control over his body for short periods of time. He has the ability to make him see things that arenât there (one example would be my OC seeing a version of himself in the mirror that is actually his elder talking to him mentally but he sees it as that version of himself talking to him)
Now imagine in the AU where abolish took a drop of Scottâs blood :3
ohohhhohhh spooky yessss
Abolish, who relies so heavily on his observation skills, starting to succumb to stress and paranoia because he keeps *seeing* things.
He doesn't understand what's happening, until he catches sight of himself in a mirror, and he reflection is smiling, grinning back at him with a wicked glint in the eye and it's so obviously Scott that Abolish smashes the mirror.
Oh wait you can make that so much worse for everyone
Abolish and Pyro run into each other in the woods. Scott has been following Pyro and now has the perfect opportunity to mess with both of them.
He can sneak up on Abolish by making sure he doesn't hear him coming. He appears behind Abolish's shoulder and Pyro freaks. Abolish looks behind him and sees nothing.
"It's fine, Pyro, there's nothing there. I would know."
He's staring straight at Scott.
It leaves Pyro questioning his own perception, because he trusts Abolish.
Double the gaslighting for Goldsmith. Awful, I love it.
oh man. what if being thralled starts to feel good?
comfort is part of someone's senses. you can be ordered to relax.
The Doc hands him some stew with a concerned look and insists he has to eat something. the stew is warm and rich and hearty and its only when Abolish sees the blood on his lips in a reflection does he realize it's not stew at all.
his eating doesn't slip, after that. somehow he always has something on hand, even when he burns his rations. the regular meals are good. too good. hunger roars in his stomach and he devours what's in his hands and it is so, so good.
his stupid butler costume was never his favorite, but now it is comfortable, especially when it is neat. the gloves feel like silk against his hands. he borrows one of Ren's shirts. wearing it itches, something in his mind insisting that it's wrong.
he only notices that he's back in his old clothes when he realizes that it's stopped itching.
the sword in his sheathe is diamond, glittering in the sun and brutal-sharp. it used to be silver. Cleo says it's still silver. Maybe it's not Cleo, though.
his sleeping quarters would be cooler if they had a window in them. he hasn't made it yet, but he can imagine it perfectly- high up and bat sized, perfect for late night visits. Scott wants him to make it, and the want feels like his own. he reminds himself that he doesn't actually want that. it feels less convincing every time.
(Scott doesn't have an invitation into his house yet. the knowledge circles Abolish like a wolf.)
i didnt realise ao3 was started in response to lj deleting account relating to p//edophi|ia and they explicitly support the posting of such works yikes
it wasnât, like, ~~~we luv pedophilia, it was way more complicated than that!
although itâs true AO3 does allow all fannish content provided itâs properly warned for, thereâs a long history there - of spaces being used by fans until the host decided whatever we were doing was too weird and distasteful and either kicking us off, banning certain content, or changing the nature of the site until it was no longer viable as a host.
youâre referring to the LJ Strikethrough of 2007, which, being an ancient crone, I lived through, and since I was hanging out in the last vestiges of SGA and in bandom, I saw some of the fallout. this was before LJ was sold to the Russians (which is a whole ânother story), when it was still owned by Six Apart; in an effort to clean up LJâs act, Six Apart decided to delete all accounts using tags like underage, incest, rape, etc.
this was supposed to get rid of actual child porn on the site, and I hope it did, but it also targeted fan communities. this was a problem for a couple reasons; for one thing, not every story tagged with these words is in favor of them; for another, these things happen to real people and these personal posts were also potentially in danger of being attacked; for the last one, look, I ainât into this kind of fic but people write about what people write about, and if itâs fictional and not explicitly banned in the TOS (correct me if Iâm wrong; I donât think written content about this stuff was banned?) then itâs not cool for a content host to just start deleting communities without warning.
but thatâs what happened! these deletions were also primarily targeting slash communities, which smacked of some serious homophobia since things were deleted that had nothing to do with any of this kind of content.
eventually someone found out it was this super conservative religious group whoâd sent a list of journal names to Six Apart, and who if I remember correctly targeted slash fic on purpose, even after it became clear that the fic was, well, totally fictional. after a while, Six Apart admitted theyâd made a mistake and started to reinstate journals, but all of fandom was pretty shaken up.
THEN Boldthrough happened, which was essentially the same debacle several months later, at which point fandom began its long slow migration from LJ to GJ, IJ, and eventually AO3, Twitter, and tumblr.
AO3 was opened in 2008 in response to several incidents, of which Strikethrough was a really intense one. remember, also, that back in 2008 the stigma surrounding fandom was significantly greater and more shameful than it is today, so finding hosts willing to archive fic was difficult unless someone had the dough to pay for server space - often not an option. this was also back when fanfic.netâs HTML restrictions were so great that users couldnât use any special characters or bold or italicize anything, and it didnât allow R-rated content, so it was clearly not ideal. in addition, although cease & desist letters were much less common than they were in the early 2000s and before, DMCA takedowns were still a phantom on the horizon.
LONG STORY SHORT, even though pedophilia is reprehensible and I personally cannot stomach fanfic that involves that kind of content, AO3 was founded specially as a safe space for fandom communities that could not find homes elsewhere. it requires warnings precisely for that reason, and if you find a story that is not properly warned, you can alert the admins and get the story labeled appropriately.
IDK, maybe itâs just because I am, again, ancient, but I was in and around fandom before homosexuality was legal in all 50 states. so were most of the people who started AO3. for most of my formative life, being gay was associated with pedophilia, and so was writing about gay characters. just - itâs a lot more complicated than you might expect, and thereâs a reason many older fans who have been involved in several generations of fandom were so grateful to have AO3 as an option.
I donât read, for example, Hydra Trash Party fics. They squick me, and I generally feel they are pretty gross. But writing noncon body-horror is not the same as saying âyeah, I totally want to go out and rape and torture people for years while brainwashing them!â or even âyeah, I wouldnât do it myself, but it would be totally okay if someone did!â Nobody is hurt by it, and nobody is going to be hurt by it. So should I have the right to go, that is gross, you donât get to write or read that? No.
In the same way, writing about underage teens getting it onâsometimes with each other, sometimes with adults, sometimes consensually, sometimes notâis not the same as child pornography, nor does reading a fic about Hermione and Snape getting it on while she was his student mean someone thinks that would be a good and/or healthy thing in real life.
Fiction affects reality, but fiction is not reality. And writing about something does not mean you want to do it in real life, or believe that anyone should.
Letâs take a closer look at that âAo3 supports pedophilia!â shall we?
1) The only fics I have ever come across that had actual pedophilia (i.e. someone having sex with a child), it was clearly and explicitly abuse. It was not meant to titillate or arouse. It was meant to horrify. It was seldom explicit.
2) Thereâs a lot more incest, but it is usually portrayed either as explicitly mutually consensual (i.e. Sam/Dean) or as abusive.
3) Iâve been in fandom for a decade and a half. When people start getting upset at âomg pedophilia, think of the children!â the fics they are usually objecting to arenât actually pedophilia. Usually, it is teenagers having sex, especially queer sex. And people donât like that, and use pedophilia as an excuse to shame people for writing/reading sex they donât like.
Letâs look closer at Strikethrough, shall we? I hope that, if there were any communities of actual pedophiles on LJ, they got taken down, too. But here are some of the communities that got taken down that were not in any way supporting pedophilia and/or rape and/or incest that got taken down:
1) at least one support community for survivors of sexual abuse.
2) a literary book discussion group that was reading Lolita.
3) lots of slash fanfic communities, for things like Draco/Harry fic set in their fourth year (when both boys would have been 15).
Basically, this very conservative âfamily valuesâ group hated porn, and they hated queer stuff even more, and used âbut think of the children, itâs pedophilia!â to pressure LJ to get rid of huge swathes of things they didnât like. And one time taking down the worst of it wasnât good enough for them. No, this was step one on a moral crusade. If you acceded to their demands, all that did was whet their appetite, and soon they would be back with a new list of demands. This is why the 2007 strikethrough was not an isolated event, but rather one of a series of events, nor was LJ the only website thus targeted. It starts with anything that can get labelled âpedophiliaâ or âincestâ because thatâs low-hanging fruit. But they use that to go after anything relating to queer teen sexuality. Then anything with teen sexuality. Then once the community is already divided and diminished, they go after anything with non-con. Then whatever is next on their list. It doesnât stop until theyâve won the point and nothing but suitably âfamily-friendlyâ fics that match their purity test are allowed.
Which is why AO3 has no morality content in their terms of service. You canât break copyright beyond fair use (and AO3 has an expansive view of âfair useâ and a team of lawyers on call). You canât use AO3 for commercial advertising. And you canât post ACTUAL child pornography, i.e. the things that are legally prohibited, i.e. actual photographs or videos of actual children (not teens) in sexually explicit positionsâyou know, the stuff that actually hurts kids. Other than that? Itâs fair game. You can post anything you want, and the archive will not judge. There is no handle for the Moral Majority Family-Friendly Thought Police to latch onto, no cracks they can exploit to divide and conquer.
Weâve been down that road. It doesnât lead anywhere good.
Reblogging this for the excellent explanation of what exactly the moral crusaders did last time. They had an explicit agenda of anti-queerness, and they specifically targeted slash and femslash communities in particular, such that many ship communities became (or started as) deliberately members-only. You had to apply, and your personal blog had to look like a real person and a fan. You were vetted, a la 1990s private servers.
During this period, Dreamwidth was also targeted by attacking its payment processor. They had to get a new one. These âWarriorsâ (literally called themselves that!) were totally on board with destroying fandom as a side effect of destroying the parts of fandom they didnât like.
If youâre carrying out harassment of people right now because theyâre posting works with sexual elements you donât agree with? (And itâs always sex, never non-sexual violence, how strangeâŚ.) If youâre doing that, youâre also totally on board with destroying fandom as a side effect of destroying the parts of fandom you donât like. Because your tactics are fandom-destroying, and so is your agenda.
reblogging because this is important: strikethru and boldthru and all the various âpurgesâ that fandom went thru about 10 years ago: this had to do with OUTSIDERS deciding that fandom in general and fanfiction in specific were evil and needed to be destroyed; unless we were writing and shipping good vanilla M/F married people. These were outsiders, going after fictional writing about fictional characters.
AO3 and OTW are HUGE, because now we have an organization, with very smart women and a lot of lawyers, that have our back. Fannish history is important, people! It has not always been this way.
This is so, so important: thereâs that other post about AO3 and fanfiction floating around, about our history. People decry violent video games but no one is trying to force companies out of business. But people can and do attack fanfiction: an activity primarily written by women for women, about fictional characters. And often about sex. We have to constantly defend ourselves, protect ourselves, support each other against charges like âpaeodophiliaâ.
Throwing this in because I was also present: This was during the American Governmentâs attempts to pass censorship laws on the internet. As MOST of those domains had their serves in America, they were beholden to those censorship laws. A great deal of fanfiction.net was removed because they happened to lose a goddamn courtcase. Iâve been on the site since 2002. They may not have âofficiallyâ allowed NC-17 rated content (what it used to be listed as in the filters), it never did a damn thing to remove it. Ever. They had it listed as a rating option during âNew Storyâ uploading after all. It was i nthe search filters. After they lost the courtcase however, they legally had to start doing things about the mature content reports they got. The admins and mods were not actively looking for fic to remove, they were just responding to reports they had already received.Â
tl;dr - I know tumblr is all about black and white âyouâre either all right or all wrongâ thinking, but itâs important to understand what actually happened before going âew ao3 was made to give pedophiles a safe place to postâ because that is 110% not what happened.
This is why so, so many of the comparatively older fannish folks on tumblr like me are so vehemently against stuff like the anti movement and âall ships are valid UNLESSâ. It smacks of censorship and content policing - and weâve been there. We got our shit deleted and our accounts banned because someone else thought what we were reading or writing or talking about needed to just⌠not exist. No warning. Literally overnight. We just woke up and stuff was gone.
And yeah, the group was legit called Warriors for Innocence (or maybe of). I knew several people that were members of survivor/support groups that lost their groups - and their main support network - when Strikethrough happened (ten years ago holy shit).
You antis need to listen when us older fans tell you that the censorship youâre advocating for, when put into practice, is NOT a positive thing; itâs an extremely scary thing!
I can guarantee that you would be very, very upset if another event like LJ Strikethrough were to happen today because *you* are just as vulnerable as the rest of us! If you support the rights of marginalized groups of people, if youâre a slash or fem slash shipper, if you support gender identities that arenât defined by biological sex, if you care about representation, if you support women, if you have any kind of kink, if you care about fandom in any capacity beyond its eradication, YOU DO NOT ACTUALLY WANT THE SORT OF CENSORSHIP YOUâRE ADVOCATING!!
People were terrified during Strikethrough. Â I was there. Â Communities were being shut down, individual users were being shut down. Â People were losing access to their own fics, their feedback, their comments â a LOT went on in comments on LJ. Â Think more coherent reblogs, much more personal, very widespread. Â Comments were also very important, and in terms of networking/communicating, were absolutely critical. Â
LJ was, for many people, central. Â
It was a fundamental part of the infrastructure of fandom at the time. Â
Having it attacked, having parts of your fandomâs territory just deleted like that, was very very scary.  People didnât know who was next.  Every day, the list of stricken journals grew.  And not all of them came back, not all of them recovered their content.  Some people even voluntarily deleted their content as a form of protest.  It was a bad time.
You do not have to interact with fic that grosses you out or makes you uncomfortable.  Tagging is a thing.  And even outside of tags, you are responsible for curating your own fandom experience.  It is not right to expect it to be curated for you.  And it is not right to lash out when someone refuses to do so and expects you to walk away from things that do not concern you.
I was gonna say âthings that donât harm anyoneâ but I realize you can argue that.  If you get triggered, thatâs upsetting.  That could be considered harm.  And I have sympathy for that.  I do.
I have run across fic that triggered me. Â I have pretty specific triggers, and people donât always think to warn for them because they arenât that big a deal for a lot of people. Â Or itâs sort of bundled into kink and is presumed, that if youâre okay with certain kinds of kink, youâre okay with this. Â So Iâve been blindsided by it before. Â And it sucks for a couple of days while I get over it.
That was not the fault of the authors! You could argue that tagging should have been used, and maybe it should, but ultimately thatâs not an ironclad obligation. Â Itâs a tool people provide out of courtesy.
That was not the fault of the site! Â The site is there to give authors a way to make fiction available, not to judge each work and interrogate its validity and make sure everything is tagged so that nobody has to see anything bad, ever.
That was not even my fault! Â It was my responsibility to try to curate my experience, and I tried, but it wasnât my fault because I didnât deliberately set out to trigger myself.
When I get triggered, unless it is by a deliberate act, it is actually the fault of the people who hurt me in the first place! And I refuse to let them off the hook and blame perfectly innocent people who just wanna write their fanfiction! I may hate that fanfiction, but that is irrelevant to the question of whether or not people should be allowed to post whatever they want.
Also, some people cope by writing about fucked-up shit.  My best friend in the whole wide world has shared her fic with me, and HOO BOY it is messed up. She wrote it during a time in her life when she was in and just coming out of a horrifically abusive relationship.  I mean, it was exactly the kind of relationship all of us here on Tumblr love to hate.  She was married to a shitty, abusive man who preyed on someone younger than he was and used his influence over her to treat her in a way that would be right at home in that Lundy Bancroft book Why Does He Do That? He was a real rapist, a verified grade-A bad fuckinâ guy.  (She was lucky to escape.  I have immense respect for her.)  And she wrote some fucked up fic to deal with it, and she shared it, and people were invested in it.  And because this was early 2000â˛s, she had to host it on a foreign server and cover her tracks, because at that time no-place was safe to post it.
âYeah, but if sheâs writing it for therapy, she doesnât have to post it where other people might have to see it!â I hear you say.
But like ⌠what the hell??? âShut up, donât talk about it, itâs bad to talk about these things, because these things are bad!â is something used against folks with trauma.
âThis isnât good for me, I canât talk about this, I canât be your audience for this,â thatâs fine, those are boundaries that people with trauma use to defend themselves. Â You should learn to say those things! Â It will help you!
But expecting other people to never create and share art about trauma is just so thunderously oppressive I lack the ability to fully articulate it.
And nobody should have to disclose their history of trauma to prove their motives are pure or virtuous enough for their speech to be protected.  Iâve only really been able to openly say âI was assaulted, it was traumatic, I am a little fucked up from itâ for the past couple of years, tops.  I couldnât talk about it before that.  Couldnât!  And it was over 20 years ago!
I also believe, very firmly, that you donât need a history of abuse to find writing really messed-up shit satisfying, or to find reading it cathartic. Â I believe 100% in the freedom of creative expression, and the freedom to read whatever fucked up shit you want to read.
All yâall fandom youngsters can spit nails all you want over gross rape fic, incest fic, whatever.
Fine, I donât like it either!
But that fucked up shit? Â That fucked up shit helped carve out the spaces we have today. Â You donât have to like it, but campaigning to get it deleted, harassing content creators, calling people rapists and pedophiles who have never done and would never ever do such a thing, that is not the way to improve the world, it doesnât keep actual kids or teens or assault/rape victims safe. Â It wouldnât have made me feel safe when I was 16 and didât want what was going on. Â It doesnât make me feel safe now. Â I can say with the perspective of someone 24 years away from that event, it doesnât make the world safer for people like I was. Â It actually makes it worse.
Learn to steer clear of the messed-up stuff you donât like.  Itâs a skill, you get better with practice.  Have someone else vet stuff for you if you need help doing it now.
Everything that is sketchy and gross is not criminal, and writing about a thing is not morally the same as doing it. Â Please stop acting like writing about an adult and a teenager having really questionable, gross sex is as bad as the actual registered sex offender they caught hanging around an actual elementary school two neighborhoods over from mine, just trying to talk to the kids. Â The former is, at most, in poor taste, and potentially triggering to abuse victims. Â The second makes me want to vomit because even though he was just talking, that guy was gearing up to try something and create another abuse victim. Â A g a i n. Â
The first can be avoided because it is imaginary and you, an adult, have power over your back button so that you donât have to witness harm to imaginary people.  The second, those very real kids had to rely on real adults and real law enforcement to keep them safe from very real assault.  (It worked!  The neighborhood rallied!  He was arrested for violating parole!)
Pretty sure Sleazebag McDongface didnât read some gross NC-17 Draco/Lucius fic before deciding to harm an actual human being. Â Pretty sure not having read it didnât keep him from doing it. âCause he fuckinâ did it. Â And he would have done worse. But actual people stopped him.
I get wanting to protect victims when so many of us are victims ourselves, but man, going after fiction is not the way to do it.
An author is not a perpetrator. Â Stop trying to make those things synonymous in the minds of other fans, and in the minds of other recovering victims.
Iâm a crone who also lived through strikethrough, and all y'all young fans need to read this and understand it if you donât want history to repeat itself someday.
Hereâs the thing, also: it doesnât stop with fic about objectionable stuff.
If you have a website with TOS that includes any kind of âobjectionable contentâ rules, there will be parties who will use those rules to try to silence other people whom they want silenced.
Letâs look at the alt-right and MRA movements today, or GamerGate a few years ago. What is one of their primary weapons? They report black or feminist or really any leftist YouTube channels (or Twitter accounts, or whatever) whose message they donât like and claim those channels are are violating TOS by posting hate speech or incitations to violence or whatever bullshit they can come up with, in an attempt to silence those channels.
When Anita Sarkeesian of Feminist Frequence came under fire for starting a crowdfunding endeavor to fund the production of her Tropes vs. Women in Video Games series of videos, male gamers tried to get her KickStarter and various social media accounts shut down by reporting her for for hate speech and promoting terrorism.
Luckily, that became a big enough story that the dudes failed and their efforts backfired. But a lot of times, these tactics work.
How do I know this? Because it happened to me. Not over major shit like the examples above, but over something completely petty.
Back in the mid-to-late 90s, before LiveJournal really became the place for fandom, before FF.net was really a thing, you had to create your own personal website on whatever free webhost you could find (GeoCities was popular, but there were others) if you wanted to host your fic somewhere.
And back then, TV studios and book authors were still sending their lawyers after people who wrote fanfic, issuing cease and desist letters to not only the authors, but also to their webhosts.
At the time, I was writing perfectly het Mulder/Scully fanfic. No rape, no pedophilia, no slash. Maybe a little BDSM. But largely it was unobjectionable.
Then the 8th season of X-Files started, David Duchovny decided he only wanted to be involved part-time, and the show decided to bring in another male character. The fandom lost their shitâas fandoms doâover the idea of âreplacingâ Mulder blah blah blah.
One of the most popular fanfic mailing listsâone that had previously had no restrictions on what characters or pairings could be postedâdecided that if you wrote fanfic involving this character, you were no longer welcome. Well, this was the mailing list with all the readers. Sure, authors could go to other mailing lists, but they wouldnât have exposure to the sort of readership this other list boasted.
I spoke out, saying that this change was unfair to fic authors and that the moderator of this list was behaving in a pretty vile way. The moderator and her friends took aim at me and began a campaign of harassment, and a few days later, suddenly my website with my XF fanfic was TOSed because someone had reported it. So was the next site I tried to create to host my fic, and the one after that.
Thanks to the way AO3s TOS are constructed, that sort of shit doesnât happen now. I can speak up if I need to, and while I may receive harassment on my various social media accounts, thereâs no chance they can have my fic taken down just because they have an agenda and donât like me for reasons not relating to my fic.
So yeah, AO3â˛s rules protect fic a lot of us might find objectionable. But they also protect fic that is in no way objectionable from being targeted by unrelated harassment campaigns. And since any of us could find ourselves in the sights of those sort of campaigns at any time, we need to thank our lucky stars for that.
When I helped write the ToS for AO3, I wasnât primarily thinking about strikethrough. I was primarily thinking of FFN, where so many people post things that are technically against the ToS but that the community tolerates. Any time someone gets pissed off, they can go on a grudge-reporting spree and target their enemyâs work. Often, that means guys targeting slash or Twilight fic because itâs âfor girlsâ and thus sucks. Sometimes, itâs one ship vs. another. I was also thinking of Miss Scribe and all of that other Harry Potter fandom drama. (And if you think fans are above destroying an entire archive just to strike at one enemy, think again!)
We canât force people to like each other. We canât force people to be nice to each other. But we could take away fandom bulliesâ favorite tools.
Watching young (ostensibly liberal) bloggers and fans take up the deeply conservative rhetoric and moral crusading of the right wing and evangelical groups from the 90s has been both fascinating from an anthropological perspective, and fucking horrifying for someone who lived through this time period and the death of LJ. Â
It galls me to think that those of us who went through all this shit might have to go through it again because people who were still in primary school at the time donât see anything wrong with harassing us over
Like, I hate to pull this argument, but we are your fandom elders, we did what we did to preserve fandom for y'all, so y'all would have space to safely explore the sane things we did and still do. And in doing so we rightly realized that if we wanted to protect the comfortable, cuddly parts, we also needed to protect the dark parts.
You can hate non-con fic all you want, and I will always advocate for adequate tagging/warning (especially with franchises that are aimed at younger audiences, e.g. MLP:FIM and SU) so that you donât have to see it because I sympathize, but I will never support people who want to make sure that it isnât even there to be seen. Iâve been through that once. It didnât help anyone. It didnât fix anything.
Please, learn to curate your own online experience. You are responsible for not clicking, or clicking away. Donât try to force others to do it for you. Thatâs not cool. You arenât protecting children. You are asking fandom to treat everyone like a child. There is a massive difference.
Also⌠maybe parents should do their job in monitoring kidsâ content? When my parents found out I was looking at age inappropriate things when I was a minor, like they intervened.
Strikethrough 07 was such a well-conducted operation that communities dedicated to survivors of sexual abuse and fans of Lolita fashion were suspended, but the journal of the baby rapist, ohbutyouwillpet, stayed up. And itâs still up to this day, though it hasnât been updated it over a decade as its owner is still in prison.
Whooo, I guess itâs my turn to take a shot at this.
Iâm a nold. Iâm in my 40s. When I came out as queer, in the early 90s, it was in the middle of what were called the âfeminist sex warsâ. If you want a really good book to read about that period, which has a LOT of resonance with Strikethrought and with the current Tumblr discourse, I cannot recommend this highly enough:
Defending Pornography: Free Speech, Sex, and the Fight for Womenâs Rights by Nadine Strossen
A preview is available on Google Books, or it should be readily available secondhand, or in academic libraries (though itâs not a very heavy academic read). I recommend Booko for finding cheap secondhand copies. Support independent bookstores!
I havenât read âDefending Pornographyâ for a while â I actually last re-read it about a decade ago because of the impact that Warriors for Innocence were having on Dreamwidthâs payment providers at the time, subsequent to Strikethrough itself â but hereâs a quick summary, as I remember it.
1. In the late 80s and early 90s there was a vocal group of radical feminists who believed that pornography inherently harms women, not just in its production but also in its consumption (i.e. watching/reading pornography caused people to develop attitudes that were harmful to women). All explicit content was considered to be harmful, from eg. girlie magazines to hardcore XXX videos to a book like âThe Joy of Gay Sexâ, no matter who made it, its purpose, its intended audience, or its context. (Yup, even m/m content was considered to be degrading to women for reasons that didnât make a lot of sense tbh.)
2. These anti-pornography feminists teamed up with the religious right and managed to get anti-porn laws passed. In particular, a law was passed in Canada preventing the importation of âobsceneâ material. Canada, of course, imports a lot of material from the US. Stuff started getting seized at the border.
3. Guess what was seized first? âThe Joy of Gay Sexâ and the like. Guess what businesses started finding all their shipments seized or delayed â sexually explicit or not â to the point where they were being put out of business? Gay bookstores. Guess what wasnât seized at all? Mainstream porn made for straight men.Â
Around this time, Little Sisters bookstore in Vancouver (a gay bookstore) found that huge amounts of merchandise was being seized at the border, regardless of the actual content. They were being discriminatorily targeted on the basis of their sexuality. The queerness of the material they were importing was seen as inherently obscene.
Remember that this is before there was much information available online for LGBTQ+ people, so if you were a young person maybe just coming out and trying to understand things, or wanting to learn about safe sex (and yes it was at the height of the AIDS crisis, too) youâd go to a bookstore like this. Which now had empty shelves. I remember endless fundraising and activism in the LGBTQ+ community to try and keep Little Sisters open. In the end they spent half a million dollars on court cases. Read more about their struggles.
(You know what businesses werenât impacted and didnât have to basically ask their friends and community for help to stay open or spend a decade in the courts to defend their right to run their businesses? The powerful companies making porn by and for straight men.)
The book goes into a large number of analogous situations. Time and time again, anti-pornography laws intended to protect women are disproportionately used against women themselves, against LGBTQ+ people, and against basically any marginalised or minority group, rather than against the mainstream male-oriented porn that would seem to be its primary target.
Hereâs the key point: Strossen is a legal scholar whoâs looked at a lot of attempts at censorship, and you know what she found happened every time? When you try to censor pornography, even in the interests of protecting vulnerable people, that censorship will be applied first, and hardest, against the people who are most vulnerable. They wonât come for actual abusers, theyâll come for the abused, and prevent them from accessing resources, education, talking to each other, creating art to express themselves, or organising against those who are actually causing harm.
Read the book. The stories it tells are from the early 90s but they perfectly mirror what happened a decade ago with Strikethrough and whatâs happening now with all this Tumblr discourse.
This is old, old business, weâve seen it more than once before, and it never goes the way the antis think it will. Censorship is a tool that gives power to abusers and lets them inflict more harm on those who are abused, vulnerable and discriminated against. Donât fall for it.
History they should have known: The Comstock laws in New York were this one dude (Comstock) who managed to get a mail regulation re-written to categorize anything related to contraceptives as pornography, which was already illegal to mail.
(Which is one reason for the pornographic playing cards etc, because the 19th century was almost as big on mail-order goods as the 21st, because getting to shops in person was hard for a huge subsection of Americans.)
Comstock built a non-profit with the support of the YMCA and oh shoot, some millionaire whose brand is still going strong, to enforce this law because the postal system didnât have the personnel. They were granted the right to do so.
He and his posse of honorary mail inspectors with police powers (I kid you not) spent years engaging in endless skullduggery to prosecute people for selling contraceptives by mail. Which was how everyone got them in the 19th century, you couldnât walk into a shop for a pack of condoms but mail-order packages were nicely anonymous. They dragged Margaret Sanger into court repeatedly. There was a huge cottage industry of contraceptives in NYC at the time, most of the manufacturers being female, Jewish, immigrants, or some combination of the above.
There was one woman whose name escapes me they kept trying to prosecute for selling contraceptive devices and the juries kept nullifying it because the average New Yorker in the 1890s were like âyeah no condoms are not a crime,â but not everybody had her stage presence and resources.
You know who they never even tried to touch? The big rubber companies were were getting into mass production of condoms. Their big funder owned the company that produced Vaseline, and was claiming in ads at the time that it worked as a spermicide.
Only the poor and vulnerable felt the impact of the Honorary Postal Inspectors of righteousness.
Itâs been touched on a little before but really itâs hard to explain just how confusing and scary the crackdowns were. I was only a reader on FanFiction when the crackdown came but it felt like I was standing in a coal mine full of canaries. Canaries that were either silent or /screaming/.
Every where you looked, authors where posting warnings about how x stories were getting deleted. All of the warnings feeling rushing, panicked, most of them including notes about how they didnât know how long they had before their warnings were taken down or they were deleted. It felt a bit like all the stars going out, everything just dying around you. Like a stampede of people had fled from some oncoming unnamed horror leaving silence in their wake. Finding AO3 later on was like finding a safe haven in a world gone mad.
Also FanFiction doesnât really encourage socialisation aside from authors notes to readers on their chapters or homepage. Meanwhile all the warnings of the crackdown were really rushed and vague. So, as a not very sociable reader, I really didnât have a clue what was going on at the time of the crack down and the confusion and uncertainty was almost the scariest part of the whole thing. (Not knowing if the authors should come back and if fanfics were gone for good was scarier.) Itâs only years later, reading fanfic history posts that Iâve started to piece together what happened.
Also an interesting point was that during the crack down all I ever heard about was /gay/ stories being deleted. Perhaps this was just because I was reading gay stories but I didnât even realise it was mature stories in general that was supposedly the aim of the crack down until much later.
I very much second the rec about the feminist sex wars. Understand those, and youâll understand why those of us over about 30 are so opposed to tumblrâs purity crusade.
If you havenât been TOSsed you really donât get it, imo.
If you havenât spent your time wondering if the thing that will get your content deleted is the dark stuff or the nipples, you really donât get it, imo.
Hell, way way back in the day, I had moderator types private message me going âI really like your writing, but you need to be less obvious about it, or I will have no choice but to tos you.â
A long reblog, but a worthy read. So much history and experience recounted here. If we donât remember our past, remember why AO3 and many fandom spaces work the way they do now, we will be condemned to repeat it.
Please do not let us return to the dark ages of fear, censorship, and oppression in fandom.
It seems really simple to me. Either you value free speech or you donât. And yes, the right of free speech does not mean people have to listen to you; and yes, the right of free speech does not mean anyone owes you a platform. Nevertheless, in every society where rights and freedom mean anything, pains are taken to ensure that a few places exist where anything can be said and anything can be heard, and anything can be responded to. AO3 has elected to be such a place.Â
Donât like it? Donât go there. Donât go to Speakerâs Corner. Build your own Archive, following your own rules. If those rules are appealing, people will join you.Â
You donât have the right to silence anybody. You know what you do have the right to to? Refuse to listen. Or argue against them. You know what gives you that right? The principle of free speech. But I guess bullying people into silence is easier than coming up with convincing arguments to refute them.Â
Censorship is like a really pernicious, invasive weed. You may want to introduce it into your garden because it looks beautiful and you think itâll make the whole garden more attractive, but it will soon take over and you wonât be able to control it.Â
â When you try to censor pornography, even in the interests of protecting vulnerable people, that censorship will be applied first, and hardest, against the people who are most vulnerable. They wonât come for actual abusers, theyâll come for the abused, and prevent them from accessing resources, education, talking to each other, creating art to express themselves, or organising against those who are actually causing harm.â
Also question: what IS wrong with writing teenagers having sex with each other??
Iâm not referencing the more heavy stuff ( non-consensual actions, or incest or being with an adult). If I put that in, the discussion might turn into something else and get long. I mean just two 16 year olds getting it on. Itâs something that happens. Iâm 19 now, but at 15-16 some of my classmates were going at it like rabbits. Teens fuck. What ARE they even trying to do?? Deny reality??
The two most common complaints Iâve seen from people about teenage sex is that 1) Itâs âpedophiliaâ (which it isnât, because a teenager is not a pre-pubescent child) or B) If youâre writing about teenagers having sex then you must be a dirty old person who is fantasizing about having sex with teenagers and you are gross. I tend to chalk this one up to projection, since no one espousing that particular line of reasoning seems to have taken into account that older people were themselves teenagers once and while they may not want to have sex with teenagers anymore they DO remember what being one was like and are in all likelihood simply writing from past experience and itâs pretty fucking stupid to tell someone they canât write about their past and who they were and what they felt because theyâre older now.
tl:dr: they donât know what the fuck theyâre talking about.
AU: In order to bring strength into their ranks, trusted members of The Organization are fed the blood of powerful vampires, mainly those who are deceased in order to prevent betrayal. Abolish is one of these trusted members, fed with droplets of the blood of one of the most powerful vampires known to mankind.
Imagine his surprise when said vampire, Scott Goldsmith, is actually alive.
âThereâs no need to be so hostile!â Scott said with an airy laugh, hands raised in a performative surrender. Abolish watched his every move, tracking each step and twitch of movement. He had drawn his sword when he, Pearl and Drift had climbed out of the tomb and been faced with Scott and Owen. Not an ideal situation.
âI can think of a reason,â Pearl said flatly, hand on her own sword. Sheâd taken a defensive stance that put her shoulder to shoulder with Abolish, Drift placed neatly behind them. Abolish appreciated the assistance.
âTruly, we were just passing by,â Scott grinned. âWhy donât you put that sword away, Abolish?â
âOkay.â
What?
His sword was back in its sheath. He⌠hadnât meant to do that. He went to draw it again, but his hand wouldnât move. There was an odd taste in the back of his throat. Metallic, like blood.
Like the blood he had been fed, small drops on the back of his tongue that made his reactions faster and his senses sharper.
ohhh, thinking about this in the context of "Scott thinks thralls are cheating". post that's been going around. because obviously, he never would have done this himself, but now someone's gone and done it for him, and thralls are usually boring but Abolish is so very interesting.
Abolish isn't willing now, and under normal circumstances never would be willing, but that's what makes it such a fun challenge! what would it take to make Abolish willing? how can Scott make him accept the collar around his neck? everyone is willing to bend for something, sooner or later.
would he yield for the sake of the doctor? his fellow agents, some of whom have almost certainly also drank his blood? his integrity? what would make worth tolerating, so that he won't lunge for freedom the second he's allowed any slack?
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i think if you are in a position of power and use that power to tell people that you see their every move and are going to do what you deem "appropriate reactions" to them breaking your personal preference rules in private spaces AND ALSO tell them you have spies watching them just in case they try to hide then that makes you a bad person
Scott Goldsmithâs Native Environment is a Horrible Murder Box
this has consequences
Vampires smp was originally billed as an amongus alike with light roleplay elements, so Scott Smajor basically just took a pile of life series conventions and built a character around it.
The life series, for the uninitiated, is a competitive minecraft youtube series where everyone has a limited number of lives (times they can die), and the goal is to be the last one standing. The mechanics gradually allow more murder to happen over time, so everything starts with people making nice with each other and ends with an absolute bloodbath. The tone is kept light by the mutual acknowledgment that everyone is a youtuber playing minecraft, but there has been plenty of discussion about how much actually living in that kind of world would suck.Â
And then we have Scott Goldsmith
Scott Goldsmith, who wasnât intended to be much of a character in the first place, winds up playing the life series conventions to the hilt as genuine character traits and social standards. For the most part, this worked out incredibly well! Scott Goldsmith is an interesting character that works well with the rest of the cast and is fun to watch, which is basically everything you can ask for in an improv series. There are, however, some artifacts from this that have some big impacts on how Scott works.Â
Most notably, Scott Goldsmith works from the baseline assumption that he will have to crawl over the bodies of other people to survive, and that thatâs just normal. Itâs not even anyoneâs fault. Everyone lives in a horrible murder box and the only way to succeed is to make sure that itâs you on top.
(this doesnât stick out too badly because noble power games are frequently just a slightly more free range murder box, so Goldsmith being murderbox georg does not particularly contradict his lore or backstory)
The other major consequence of murder boxes being Scott Goldsmithâs main thing is that Scott actually follows a fairly rigid set of rules and assumptions when dealing with other people. His own personal vampire code, if you will.Â
The code of Scott Goldsmith is as follows:Â
1: The in group deserves everything and the outgroup deserves nothing. Everything the in group does is good and justified, everything the outgroup does is not.Â
This is the bedrock of the gaslight, gatekeep, goldsmith social interaction special, and the governing principal behind what Scott is willing to justify and when. Basically, if he or someone he likes did it, then he will defend it and deny even the concept that it might have been wrongdoing. People that are not members of his coven generally have their actions weighed by how dangerous or inconvenient they are to himself or His People.Â
The most obvious example of this is the interactions with v!Avid in episode 6 and 7. In episode 6, he complains about Avid burning down Shelbyâs house, but in episode 7 he defends it by claiming that âit was uglyâ. The same instance of the same action performed by the same person goes from something worth complaining about to something worth depending based entirely on where they stand in Scottâs regard.
Note also that this rule has no interest in fairness or reality. If Shelby says âthe sky is green and the moon is made of cheeseâ, and Martyn says âno it's notâ, then Scott will back up Shelby because Shelby is coven and Martyn is not. If Shelby kills Martyn, Scott will immediately decide that Martyn had it coming. If Shelby kills Martyn, burns down the town, and declares her desire to destroy the world and rule over the ashes with an iron fist, Scott will fully support her in that endeavor.
2: A lone vampire is a dead vampire. Your power is directly proportional to the number of people that answer to you
On one level, this is just mechanically true for vampires smp. Every person turned is another set of hands that can corrupt the beacons, and, just as importantly, one more person taken away from the effort to consecrate them. Even if that person never switches sides, the fact that they canât consecrate any more or use the various human powers makes it a worthwhile effort, which is why there was a general OOC limit to turning only one human per episode. (and they had to take a break from turning people if they accidentally turned too many)
a more character driven level, Scott is very much a social threat, and acts the part. Turning people lets him acquire minions, who are easier to manage than outsiders, and generally arenât going to cause him problems.
Vampirism is generally more then enough to force someone into his faction, because once someone is turned the humans will do the bulk of the work in driving the new vampire away from them and into Scottâs waiting arms. Itâs a phenomena Scott is very confident about and takes shameless advantage of.
This is also why in episodes where Scott doesnât turn anyone (due to the OOC limits), itâs styled as him stopping because the new vampires arenât joining up- growing his power base is the main benefit of turning new vampires, and when that peters out he becomes more hesitant to do so.
3. Your actions should always advance your agenda
In other words, Scott mixes business and pleasure in the sense that his hobbies always contain some practical value.Â
This is, honestly, the one Scott haters get wrong the most. While thereâs nothing wrong with having a villain in your story, Scott isnât the sort of person to torture someone in his basement for the sake of it when he could be torturing someone in his basement for information, or to break them down into something more psychologically dependent on him.Â
Even if recreation is his main goal, he should ideally have a secondary goal as a matter of both practicality and preference- itâs just more fun for him if heâs being paid to be evil. (or buy some ice cream. Or pet a dog. Or help someone out)
4. Betrayal is a crime of the highest order. Loyalty is a virtue of the highest order.Â
What, exactly, Scott considers betrayal varies over the course of the series, but this is generally the governing principal behind the various times he menaced Pyro, why he didnât see v!Avidâs murder coming, and why he was both so pleased with v!Avid and so angered by his death.Â
Scott Goldsmith values loyalty, and to a degree both expects it as his due and considers it an obligation to give loyalty in turn. This isnât surprising- most Scott Smajor characters run along lines of loyalty and devotion. Scott Goldsmith is not an exception just because he is also a Dracula.Â
5. Support your allies however you can
Scott is, in fact, an incredibly dedicated ally. He does things like give Pyro food while having low hunger himself as early as episode 2, and the tendency to act like that only goes up over time.
This makes a certain amount of sense- helping other members of your faction also helps you because youâre all working together for a single goal. In Scottâs case this is especially true, since as the leader heâs deciding a disproportionate amount of the groupâs goals. A well fed minion is a productive minion. A productive minion is a lot more likely to succeed at your goals.Â
This one is the part that can be the hardest to reconcile with Scottâs everything else. However, itâs important to remember that Scott is not immune to the desire for companionship, and also that he actually needs to keep people on side in order to not die. In some ways, this is very much an extension of rule 2.
6. (new) be a good friend
Over the course of the series, Scott gradually gets attached to the other vampires, and comes to see them as companions with needs he should consider outside of their mutual victory. He realizes that he likes the people around him, and he wants them to be happy. That he cares about them as people, and not just as tools.
The process of this takes the entire series, but by the end of it his friends are a big enough priority that he points out opportunities to escape to his own detriment.
In conclusion:
1. Scottâs core character concept is âguy that is trying to get a good grade in Minecraft Hunger Games, something that is normal to want and possible to achieveâ
2. Scott Goldsmith does not so much have a moral compass as he has a set of rules designed to keep him alive. The bad parts of this are obvious, but there are good parts, too: when it mattered most, Scott was able to change and grow to suit the people around him. Owen and Ren, by contrast, violently self destructed and that hurt the people around them because they were too rigid in their personal convictions.
3. The support he offers to other people in the coven is real and sincerely meant. The expectation that those coven members will aid and abet his own misdeeds is also very real. Scott himself doesnât recognize the difference until the end of the series, where he asks Abolish to stop him from doing bad things.Â
4. The finale of vampires smp from Scottâs pov very much pivots around v!Avidâs death. It turns out that the rules that Scott shaped himself around werenât as ironclad as he thought, because the people around him would literally rather die than put up with them. The mechanics that demand violence and bloodshed can be subverted in a way that causes unnecessary death and suffering.
And, to be clear, Owen and Pyro are dead to him as soon as they do this. In part because heâs planning on killing them himself, yes, but also because their actions are tactical suicide.
When he next talks to Pyro in what is basically his eulogy, Scott thanks him for the reminder that he should expect death and misery, because as far as heâs concerned death and misery are the normal course of events. Scott was winning so much he forgot that murder boxes suck, actually.
This is increasingly a problem because, by the laws of murderboxes, Shelby and Drift are almost certainly going to die- they both struggle with pvp, donât have the aggression to cover for it, and with Pyro and Owen lost they donât have enough front liners to cover their weaknesses. If things continue the way theyâre âsupposedâ to, more people that Scott cares about are going to die.
So, Scott starts looking for another way out. After all, if the rules can be broken in ways that are bad, maybe they can be broken in ways that are good. Maybe they donât have to kill everyone. Maybe murderboxes are bullshit, and all of this was entirely unnecessary.
So he starts looking, and, surprisingly enough, there is a path out. Itâs not easy or bloodless, but it is a strict improvement over the status quo. Itâs an option that keeps his friends alive.
Of course, just leaving this murderbox isnât enough. Scott still has to deconstruct the murderbox in his own head, because otherwise his actions will simply create another murderbox around him.
Thatâs a bad outcome, so he enlists Abolish to kill him if he starts causing problems. Scottâs not great with morals, but heâs excellent with rules and practical consequences. So long as backsliding into the worst of his old behavior is guaranteed to go badly for him, he can be fairly sure that he wonât do that.
Actually figuring out how to be a functional person outside of the torment nexus is basically an entire novellaâs worth of character development that the series doesnât have time for, so instead it settles on âthey figured it out eventuallyâ.