How the hell are all the "play something other than dnd" people finding people to play these games with, especially irl? I have a collection of various indie ttrpgs but finding someone even interested in playing something other than 5e is pulling teeth (and i don't even mind 5e all that much, would just like to explore new systems)
Getting someone to play anything else but D&D5e is usually like pulling teeth yeah, and especially IRL you might be out of luck if you want it to be anything other than a grueling battle of attrition, depending on the pool of people you have access to at least.
I can invite you to the A.N.I.M. TTRPG Book Club where the whole point is to play things that are not D&D5e, but as for how to convince your friends to play other games, I might have a strategy I can offer. Granted, pure logic arguments are not often likely to have immediate effect if these were people you already tried and failed to convince, but that doesn’t mean they won’t work ever. Changing someone’s mind takes a lot of time, sometimes exponentially more time if they don’t know what they’re talking about (like talking TTRPGs with someone who has only played one single TTRPG).
The Two-Pronged Approach to D&D5e Extraction
Which one of these “prongs” should come first is something you’ll have to figure out for yourself based on the friend.
There is also a little mini-spike at the end you could also try but I’m assuming that if you have to come to me with this message that that already hasn’t worked.
The “Appeal to Fun” Prong
Ask them what they like about playing D&D5e. People who stubbornly only play D&D5e will usually have one or more of the following answers, paraphrased.
“I like that you can play a character and be anyone you want and tell a story in a fantasy world.”
As anyone who has played more than one TTRPG will tell you, this describes almost every TTRPG in existence.
Tell them playing a character and playing a game resulting in a story is not something unique to D&D5e, it is the case for just about every TTRPG and certainly the one you’re trying to get them to play.
In fact, different TTRPGs support kinds of characters and stories that D&D5e doesn’t.
The idea that different TTRPGs (and D&D5e as well) has a lot of say over what type of character and story they produce and it is best to make characters tailored to the setting rather than just drop a blorbo in with no consideration for the situations the rules support might be a little bit advanced for them right now but you should try to get there gradually if you want to make sure they have a good time playing other TTRPGs.
“I like that you can problem-solve in creative ways that are not constrained by the limitations of programming like a video game.”
Same answer as above, just about all TTRPGs are like this.
“I like that it is a social activity you can do with friends.”
Same answer is above, just about all TTRPGs are like this.
“I like the tactical combat and character building.”
This is the first one that is not completely universal to all TTRPGs, and something D&D5e actually focuses very hard on. Ordinarily I would say that Pathfinder does the same thing just a little better, but it is absolutely imperative that a stubborn D&D5e holdout not play Pathfinder as their second ever TTRPG.
The fact that Pathfinder is just a tuned up version of modern D&D will often teach people that all TTRPGs are basically the same. They’ll just get stuck in Pathfinder the same way they were stuck in D&D5e and it'll be considerably harder to pull them out the second time.
I’d really strongly suggest a game that has tactical combat to some degree or another but in a very different way and/or setting.
Not all of these are “indie,” nor do they all have a significant focus on tactical combat, but my suggestions off the top of my head are:
Eureka: Investigative Urban Fantasy (we made this one)
“I like that it’s a game that is not just combat.”
You and I know that D&D5e actually is almost exclusively just combat because the rules, character abilities, and the situations the combination of these things incentivize are almost entirely consisting of combat, but don’t say this right away, you’ll lose them, because if they’re saying this then they’re probably having a D&D5e experience that at least partially ignoring/avoiding the rules in favor of, like, running a pizza shop or something and don’t realize that this is an at-best inefficient use of a game with such a heavy focus on combat.
What you tell them instead is that many TTRPGs are not just combat and in fact many even have no combat at all or otherwise primarily support scenes/stories/adventures with minimal combat.
I’d recommend off the top of my head:
Eureka: Investigative Urban Fantasy
Silk & Dagger: A Sensible Drow RPG (we also made this one)
Burning Wheel (this one might be a little scary for them actually but I’m still mentioning it)
HOWEVER, before you make the above argument, make sure you ask them some questions about what exactly they mean by “combat.” Many people, especially people who only play D&D5e, say “combat” not to mean “the PCs engage in physical violence” but to mean “any situation where gameplay directly intersects with any rules at all,” and consider the opposite to be “roleplay,” meaning (to them) “the parts of the gameplay that do not directly intersect with the rules." They learn this false dichotomy because “combat” AKA violence is the main time the rules intersect with gameplay in a combat-focused game like D&D5e and that’s all they know.
If by “combat” they mean “the PCs engage in physical violence,” go with the above argument. If by “combat” they mean “any time the rules directly intersect with gameplay and they gotta start rolling dice,” well, this is a problem and it’s going to often affect their ability to appreciate, well, almost any game, but immediately trying to tell them them engaging with the rules is roleplay will usually lose them.
There’s a few ways to approach this problem while trying to get them to play other games with you. The first is well, again the fact “there are some times where the gameplay directly intersects with rules and you gotta make a bunch of dice rolls but other times where the PCs’ actions do not directly intersect with rules and you don’t roll dice” describes 99% of all TTRPGs.
The other thing is to ask them if they like “combat” or if they actively dislike and dread that part of the game. If they say they like “combat,” you're golden, return to the beginning of this argument.
If they say they don’t like “combat” - well, they probably would like rules-adjudicated gameplay that has rules that adjudicate situations they actually enjoy playing through, in which case return to the top of this section, but that is also just as likely to lose them. If you think it will lose them, I suggest trying to get them into a PbtA game.
I don’t like them myself, and (good) PbtA games are pretty rules-adjudicated in their own way, but in such a way that doesn’t usually feel like it is to the kind of people who have been conditioned by D&D5e to hate rules.
I’d recommend off the top of my head:
The “Why Not Play Something Else?” Prong
Ask them why they don’t want to play any other TTRPG than D&D5e. They will usually have one of the following answers.
D&D5e is actually a uniquely expensive game, but they wouldn’t know that if it’s the only one they've bought into (and that’s one of the reasons WotC wants to keep it like this). Show them that the vast majority of non-D&D5e TTRPGs are less than half the price of D&D5e, and many are even completely free. Those that aren’t free, if they literally can’t afford it, they can usually be easily pirated although I strongly urge you to support TTRPG creators financially whenever possible.
“I don’t want to/have time to learn a whole new game.”
D&D5e is actually a particularly complicated and difficult-to-learn game compared to most others, but they wouldn’t know that if it’s the only one they've played. Whatever you’re trying to get them to play, it will take less time and effort to learn than D&D5e unless it’s, like, Shadowrun or something. I wouldn’t recommend starting them out with anything seriously sparse on rules, though, as this can often cause people to flounder a bit. Try something with a mid level of complexity and a clearly written rulebook.
“D&D5e can already be adapted to anything.”
This is obviously wrong but just saying “nuh-uh” isn't going to cut it unfortunately. I don’t know if I have the time right now to write out an argument against this particularly snarled piece or D&D5e marketing propaganda, but just about any of the “game design is real” type of arguments i or others in the same circles have posted over the years should at least be a start.
“I am attached to the specific setting/characters/campaign my D&D5e group is already playing.”
The great news is that because of the above arguments about other TTRPGs not being designed to consume your entire life and bank account, they don’t have to completely abandon D&D5e or their campaign to try out a few other games! You can play a variety of TTRPGs, you don’t have to stick to just one forever. That would be like only watching one movie or only reading one book.
This is what you’ll usually arrive at once you have exhausted all of the above arguments, the admission that they are just refusing to step outside their comfort zone. At least they are finally being honest with you. This is when you hit them with the friendship spike.
You tell them you’re their friend, you really want to play a particular game with them because you think you’d enjoy it and think they might enjoy it too. You would really appreciate it if they would be willing to step outside their comfort zone and approach this activity that their friend wants to do with them with an open mind. If this doesn’t work then, like, I dunno show them a few episodes of a cartoon for babies that has lessons about sharing and sometimes letting other people pick the activities.
