Different writers, from fans and DC, all seem to have a different idea about who Jason Todd was as Robin.
Some fans say that he was a soft innocent boy before the evil writers got him.
Others constantly say he was nothing but a pain in Batman’s side.
So I collected a bunch of panels to really put together what he was actually like:
Well, Jason always smoked. I seen some people say that was added later on to make him look bad, but this comes from his first or second issue. He was always a smoker.
A bit of a Rock N Roller, and maybe metal head going off those choices of posters.
He also always had a distaste for authority and a potty mouth.
Jason didn’t even want to be adopted or taken in, since he gotten so used to his street-oriented life style.
But right from the beginning that he genuinely did have a good heart, and would put himself in harm’s way despite anyone telling him no, because he believed that someone had to stop the bad guys.
So in his first story, this was who he was.
In the next story we learned that Jason was a 5th Grade dropout.
I have no idea how old Jason was when Bruce found him though, I only know that Jason is 2 to 3 years older than Tim, because in an issue of Young Justice, Jason is said to would’ve been 17 at a time were Timmy was either 14 or 15.
Due to a time jump between his first story and this one, that’s around six months or more, also given how much training he has, and how he’s clearly growing to be quite a buff kid. I can’t exactly say how long Jason was Robin either.
We also learn that Jason really loved education, and he reminded Bruce a lot of Dick. (Maybe it’s how they cut his hair the same exact way)
So this is were people seem to have a split on who he is, because his first story introduces him as a rough street kid, and this one shows him being a kind school-oriented kid.
They seem to ignore the literal next issue though for those that wanna say he was ONLY a kind school-oriented kid.
Because surprisingly (to some people), he wasn’t a one note character and was still really violent, with murderous tenancies.
His second story showed that even though he loved school, and had a good heart. He still had a dark side to him.
Bruce wasn’t happy.
Jason wasn’t happy either, and could get quite emotional.
(The panel above was after Jason learned that Two Face killed his dad but before Jason tried to kill him)
The people that wanna say Jason was nothing but a thorn in Batman’s side ignore though, is that Batman was actually understanding of Jason.
Believe it or not, he didn’t just beat Jason in the head. He actually talked to him about it.
He still really enjoyed school too. While he wasn’t much of a typical geek or anything of the sort, given his tastes and general attitude. He still loved education and showed that he appreciated the opportunities he was given, even if he didn’t want to be adopted originally.
Despite that he still grew to be a rebel if he genuinely thought he was going to stop a good guy. The seeds that would grow once he became the Red Hood were still there. His methods were always more violent, and he still didn’t always listen.
He even showed that the knew how to use a gun excellently, but the context to this one for anyone confused, is that he’s shooting a robot. He’s not actually killing a man. I’m just showing the panel to show that A LOT of what he would be like as the Red Hood was always there.
Also apparently no one told him who the heck Nightwing was at first, and this actually made me laugh inside a little bit, because he’s just in total shock over this. Timmy would’ve gave Jason a freak out if Jason knew a little kid knew who he was.
Throughout the series we even see Jason work hard at becoming that muscular, tall, chiseled man that we know as the Red Hood from the scrawny street rat. I’m proud of him.
He also shows insecurity when he learns who Dick was. Meaning that he wasn’t completely cold hearted.
Even though there was a lot of times were he showed no sympathy towards various criminals.
Jason could also get quite cocky.
and straight reckless.
That panel is from “Death in the Family”, and people say that they made him more violent in that story, but from all that I’ve seen. He’s always been that way as a Robin.
They got straight eerie about him too.
It wasn’t a shocker he enjoyed the bars when he got old enough though.
So basically: He was an angry, emotional, reckless, rebellious, violent street kid. Who was also genuinely heroic, good hearted, and only got violent when he thought it was the right thing to do. He didn’t hurt just anybody, he only hurt violent criminals who did awful thing.
Honestly Jason just needed a therapist to help him through his problems, because he wasn’t a bad guy. He just had troubles that made him act out in violent ways.
Thank you! I tried to avoid the stuff everyone knew like him potentially throwing a guy off a balcony and stealing the Bat-Mobile tires just so I could focus on the stuff people don’t know as well.
Thattimdrakeguy produces the best character studies in the Batman fandom. They are invariably well thought and beautifully detailed with corroborating primary source materials throughout. Bravo!
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When somebody shares a quote by a famous author like it's something the author personally said and believed, but you know it was actually spoken by a character you're not supposed to like... 😐
one time I saw on Pinterest a cutesy little pink flowery image with the quote “‘as soon as I entered the house, I had singled you out as the companion of my future life’ -Pride and Prejudice” and like
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Jason is that one unemployed sibling who texts you weird shit at 3:27 pm on a Tuesday.
Like, Dick, sweating his ass off in his police uniform getting a text from Jason, which btw, extremely rare- and it's just a Twin tomato (two tomatoes grown as one ykwim) and captioned w "ur ass"
or Tim is in the middle of his board meeting and he gets an email from Red Hood and hes like stressing out chcking it only to find a pic of his apartment's kitchen's pantry asking "why dont you have salt?"
and then damian coming back from school to see his phone full of texts from Jason and it's all pics of ugly animals and every pic is captioned with "u" "u again" "wow u"
Bruce getting a morse code going "check phone" and it's a video of Jason flying away on an alien helicopter contraption with Roy yelling after him asking him to get down and jason saying he doesnt know how this shit works.
Me, after doing 15 minutes of excessive googling on every Batfam member's birthday only to then realize I've accidentally missed the majority of them this year, and then also finding out that people are still aggressively debating over whether Bruce's birthday is April 7 or February 19, Dick's birthday happens 3-6x throughout the year, and Stephanie might have just popped into existence for all that DC cares:
Batfam birthday dates btw for anyone who needs them are listed beneath the cut:
DISCLAIMER: DC is notorious for being super inconsistent with everything and I am a mere tadpole caught in the tidal wave of DC's ocean. This post will be regularly updated with edits and corrections so please do not use it as word of law, I am begging you.
Update (8/24/23): To keep things more simple and easier for everyone I am going to start categorizing the birth dates I've collected into 3 categories.
-Most popular: Self-explanatory. These are the birth dates that have been canonized and confirmed by DC and are also more wildly celebrated by the fandom. Typically, this should be the first result you see when you google the character's birthday. But not always because DC sucks ass.
-Other date(s): These are the additional birth dates I come across that have been canonized in some form with multiple sources, but are not as wildly celebrated or popularized by DC and/or the fandom. Why am I including them here? Mostly because I don't want people coming in saying I forgot a date. But also because if I have to see this mess, then y'all have too as well.
-Potential but unconfirmed date(s): This is where I will put all the other additional dates I find, but specifically those that are lacking in complete sources or seem to be highly debated and scrutinized.
Also fun emoji ranking guide for me and me alone:
👑👑: Queen Shit. Characters with a consistent and simple birth date(s). Can absolutely do no wrong.
👑😮💨: In the Running. Characters who don't have a set birth date, but the mess is minor and completely DC's fault. They shouldn't have to be punished for DC's crimes.
🤡🤡: Gtfo. Shit is so inconsistent and stupidly messy that it's making me lose my shit. I'm putting DC and the characters on trial for this bullshit.
👑Alfred Pennyworth👑
Most popular: August 16
Other date(s): April 8 and March 31
(I think it'd be hella cute if Jason and Alfred shared a bday. But if you keep scrolling through the rest of the list, you'll see that August is kind of an overcrowded bday month for the Batfam.
Depending on what you prefer, though, I still think Alfred's worth being celebrated. Lord knows he deserves a special day for himself)
(Update ((8/24/23)): No big inconsistencies between these dates. I just thought it would be fun to provide some info on why Alfred has two canonical birthdates.
So the reason August 16 is viewed as the most popular is for two main reasons. One, obviously, is that he shares a birth date with Jason Todd. So many fans latch onto this date because of how sweet it is for them to share a birthday together.
The second reason has to do with the origin of the birth date. This is because of the more recent retcon that was made by the prequel comic to the Injustice: Gods Among Us video game that was published in 2013. There is a panel in the comic that shows Alfred's birth certificate in full detail from his full name, his place of birth, etc.
As for April 8, this specific date technically has more history compared to August 16. Fans will cite that April 8 was the official date selected by DC according to their Super DC Calendar back in 1976 (which btw was made in 1975).
Compared to August 16 and April 8, however, March 31 oddly enough isn't that popular or recognized by DC or the majority of the fandom. The reason March 31 does come up is because March 31, 1943 was the date when Alfred made his first appearance in the comics, one day after Bruce/Batman)
🤡Bruce Wayne🤡: Hey. Hey, DC, look at me. Bitch.
Most popular: February 19 or April 7
Other date(s): April 25, May 27, March 30, "October," October 7, and "November"
(It looks like most people go with February 19, but don't come at me if you're a April 7 truther. I'm just existing)
(Update ((8/20/23)): I'm gonna shoot somebody. So after doing a little bit more research, I came across-you'd never guess it-even more conflicting info on when Bruce's birthday is supposed to take place.
While April 7 and February 19 are still popular days for fans to celebrate Batman's bday, March 30 is also considered a popular date due to March 30, 1939 being the day Detective Comics #27 ((the issue Batman debuted in)) was put on shelves.
HOWEVER, even Batman's debut is contested to actually be May 27, 1939 because despite the fact that Detective Comics #27 first appeared to the public on March 30, 1939, the cover issue depicted May 27, 1939 instead.
This is because it was a popular practice for comics publication houses to falsify their cover dates as a way to give the impression that the latest issue was newer than it actually was. So if you really, really wanna get super fucking technical about it ((and I know there are some of you out there who do)), Batman may have debuted on March 30, but the cover-issue date was May 27 so, yes, I guess Bruce could have been a May baby instead.
I hate it here.
Oh, and to make matters more complicated, let's discuss the issue of April 7 vs April 25. So the reason April 7 is a popular bday for Bruce is because the original 1930-40s run just outright stated that April 7 was his birthday. Simple enough.
So what does April 25 have to do with this? Well, that's because technically-I think I hate that word now btw-Batman didn't get his own solo comic until April 25, 1940. If you want to go by April 25 because of this logic, however, that means that you'd have to share Bruce's birthday with the Joker. Because guess what? That's also the exact date that the Joker debuted.
I'm personally not a huge fan of Bruce and the Joker sharing a bday. Mostly just because the dates are clearly already complicated enough. But also I feel like April 25 is just known as the Joker's bday at this point, at least in the DC fandom. And Bruce has so many options at this point that it'd be kinda silly to make them share a bday.
As for the "sometime in October" and "sometime in November" additions, we have Batman The Animated Series and Frank Miller's "Batman: Year One" to thank for those extremely vague options.
BTAS Bruce states that his birthday is "sometime in October" and "Batman: Year One" Bruce is responsible for "sometime in November." I repeat: I hate it here.
So when is Bruce's actual birthday? Well, the latest change that DC has "officially" made was the February 19 retcon during the 1970-80s. When a fan sent a question into Detective Comics about Bruce's birthday, the answer given was "February 19" in the letter column. Issue #494, to be exact.
And the reason this answer was given? Because the Super DC Calender for 1976 (again made in 1975) said so.
However, there are still people who prefer to celebrate his bday on April 7 or March 30 instead. And there's also a question floating around if the New 52 run could potentially retcon Bruce's bday AGAIN at some point in the future.
I. Hate. It. Here.
Personally, I liked February 19 because then Alfred could maybe have the month of April to himself. But after seeing all this new info, I'm just sort of resigned to whichever date that the fandom prefers. Y'all can decide. I don't have any energy left.
Also, I can't believe I have to accuse Bruce of having possibly taught Dick his bday scam. Just .... wow).
(Update ((8/24/23)): Well, DC did it to me again. I found this extra little tidbit while googling the Super DC Calendar for Alfred, actually.
So Issue #10 of the 2021 Legends of the Dark Knight decided to give the BTAS's "sometime in October" an actual sometime.
How do I feel about yet another Bruce Wayne bday retcon? Honestly, I think I'm moving closer and closer to just a bland state of acceptance at this point. Tbh, I don't think all these retcons actually matter that much in the end. DC is gonna keep being DC.
Which is annoying. But Idk I'm personally gonna stick with February 19. No shade to you if you prefer any of the other dates. I just like February 19 more than the others)
👑Kate Kane👑
Most popular: March 21
Other date(s): January 26
(So ... where to start to with this one?
Well the official DC canon birth date for Kate Kane is listed as March 21. That being said, if you were to google Kate's birthday right now, you might be confused because that's not the first result that comes up.
Instead, you'll be greeted with January 26, 1990.
So what gives? If there's already an official DC approved birth date, then why the fuck is January 26 coming up all of a sudden?
Well, folks, you have the CW's Batwoman to thank.
Tbh I was very confused as to how I completely missed that there was an entire Batwoman TV show in the first place.
Apparently the show is considered a part of the CW Arrowverse (in reference to the CW show Arrow featuring Oliver Queen, for those of you who need extra info) and ran for 3 whole seasons before being cancelled on April 9, 2022.
And they gave us actual canon lesbian Kate Kane rep. I mean, she is a lesbian. But yeah. CW actually acknowledged her sexual orientation. So kudos for doing the bare minimum?????
Anyway, I guess the showrunners just decided they wanted Kate's birthday to be on January 26 instead of March 21??? Idk if this was supposed to be a reference or an homage to Cassandra Cain's birthday. I doubt it, but who knows?)
🤡Dick Grayson🤡: Greedy bitch who keeps lying about his birthday so he can scam people into giving him more presents jk jk
Most popular: "On the first day of spring" (bruh) or March 20/21
Other date(s): March 6, "April," October 24 (aka "the week before Halloween"), November 11 and December 1
Potential but unconfirmed date(s): June 24
(Dick's canon bday seems to be influx. March 6, March 20, March 21, November 11, June 24, December 1, and so on. I did see multiple sources state Dick was born "on the first day of spring." I'm unclear atm about whether this is a fanon take or if it was actually stated in a particular comic at some point.
As far as I'm concerned, Dick just keeps lying about his birthday for the lols)
(Update ((8/24/23)): Well, guess what I found, folks?
It's a return visit from our favorite friend, the Super DC Calendar of 1976. And according to it, Dick's birthday should be November 11.
You can also thank the Young Justice comic for the confusion surrounding Dick's bday being on December 1.
Also, I found this post by @theflyingwonder that helps clear up a LOT of the mess surrounding Dick's ever changing birth date. Honestly, amazing work and extra kudos to them for putting all the work in and finding all the sources. I just wished I had found their post earlier, holy shit.
And if you have some extra time, please give some love to @inkydandy for their hilarious and very sweet comic about all the confusion that comes with Dick's bday)
(Update ((8/25/23)): Many thanks to @poisoned-ivy for clearing up even more of the mess surrounding Dick's bday. I went ahead and took a screenshot of their response to my old "Which date is Dick's canon bday?" poll.
They also provided a link to the DC Universe Calendar which was lovingly compiled from the original 1976 Super DC Calendar and then put together by the people who run the Five Earths Project .
Welcome to the DC Universe Calendar! This page began its life as the result of a long search for the ever-elusive 1976 Super DC Calendar,
Also found out from them today that October 24 is one of Dick's bdays ((at least for Post-Crisis Dick Grayson)). So that was a fun new discovery!
They were also very helpful in helping me realize that the original article I had found that stated "sometime in April" was actually in reference to Dick Grayson's first appearance in the comics, which was April 1940.
So, yes, "sometime in April" is technically--again I hate this word so much now--still a valid candidate for Dick's bday. And before you ask: Detective Comics #38 was actually published on March 6, 1940.
Hence why people will cite March 6 as Dick's canon bday instead.
This project got a lot bigger than I ever expected it to ... god)
👑Barbara Gordon👑: September 23
👑Jason Todd👑: August 16
👑Cassandra Cain👑: January 26
👑Tim Drake👑: July 19
👑Stephanie Brown😮💨: She emerged from the void with the sole purpose of dragging Bruce's ass to hell and back. Nothing can stop her. We all exist in her world now.
Potential but unconfirmed date(s): June 23, "August," or August 11
(For real, though, some peeps will say June 23 since the month she officially debuted in the comics was June 1992.
But I've also seen August 1992 listed as her bday month as well--lot of August babies in the Batfam, huh--but I haven't found June 23 specifically listed as her canon bday, either. It honestly feels like the fans are putting in more work than DC at this point. Which, like, I'm not surprised. Just disappointed)
(Update ((8/24/23)): Someone mentioned August 11 as a potential birth date, but I have yet to see an actual source that specifically states this. If I do find one, I'll edit this section. Figured I should put it here just in case, though)
👑Duke Thomas👑: August 13
👑Damian Wayne👑: August 9
👑Terry McGinnis😮💨
Most popular: August 18
Other date(s): June 27 or August 10
Potential but unconfirmed date(s): September 19 (fml)
(Yes, I'm including Terry, fuck you lol
Also SERIOUSLY WTF is up with so many of these August birthdays!!!! Fuck, was everyone just getting crazy BUSY in November!!!! What's going on in the DC universe that is making November of all months the HORNY MONTH????!!!!)
(Mini update ((8/18/23)): Well, I just found out that apparently June 27th 2023 is also a highly debated birth date for Terry. As is August 10 2023/2024 and August 18 2023/2024. I even saw a mention of September 19 2023, but I don't know how credible that source actually is. I'm just putting it here because I'm losing my mind and I don't want someone to pop in and say I forgot it omfg I'm dying
I'm just ... why? Why is it so hard to just commit to one month and one date. I'm not even concerned about the exact year. Just commit to ONE, man.
Excuse me while I march over to DC HQ and burn the whole place to the ground iswtfg)
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of these. I have a massive headache now and am open to any suggestions or clarifications y'all have to offer.
Also, I'm going to fist fight Dick in a Denny's parking lot.
Update (8/17/23): So a mini post that I meant to use as a way to vent how insane Dick was making me somehow blew up way more than I ever expected it to, and now I feel obligated to clarify again that I am open to any corrections and additional info that anyone has to offer.
I'm saying this because I've noticed people reblogging this post for actual Batfam bday references and someone already pointed out I fucked up Tim's bday and now I feel bad for everyone who reblogged this post prior to that edit.
It's probably just the anxiety talking, but yeah I just wanted to put that out there.
Also justice for Stephanie Brown! She deserves to have her own special day and if I have to bully DC into giving her a canon birthday, then you bet your ass I fucking will.
(And to all of y'all who are encouraging Dick to keep running his side scam business, I just have this to say: There's an empty Denny's parking lot somewhere out there just waiting for you, too lol)
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I'm disappointed we didn't see him going through all the options each time he introduced himself. Although to be fair, "Jason Grayson" is a horrible name
An idea- Damian forcing his brothers/ family into self care with violence and threats.
----
Damian: Fight me Drake!
Tim: I thought we were past this! I'm really not in the mood for this, I have a case and-
Damian: if you cannot defeat me in a battle in 1 minute you must sleep for more than 8 hours! If you succeed then I shall leave you be.
----
Jason: old man! Come get your gremlin he's hitting and pushing me!
Damian: I wouldn't have to bite you if you didn't smell like a skunk, don't go running to Father you coward fight back like a man.
----
Dick: Damian put Haley down... please, you don't have to do this.
Damian: no you will not get her back until you eat something healthy! Now if you excuse me I'm sure Ace will enjoy some company.
-----
Damian: father if you do not go to sleep then I will have to resort to drastic measures...
Bruce: Drastic measures?
Damian: yes, I will....call Harley and tell her how you're having a secret affair with green arrow!
Bruce: *gasp* you wouldn't!
Damian: I would and you know once I tell her it'll be all over the world in 10 minutes, now get upstairs and sleep or I'll tell Mother you want her back-
Bruce: okay I'm going!
Damian: I don't know if I should be proud or insulted mother scared him so much...
Reminds me of a fic where someone advised Damian to treat Tim like an abused cat to get him to stop some self destructive habits.
That can be applied to all the bat family. Jason is like a street stray that was through a dog fighting ring. Dick is like a circus animal that only got feed if it performed well only for him it is affection. Damian is like the worst combination of all of that.
The fact that you can’t raise taxes on billionaires even slightly without them pouring money into fascist political movements is, of itself, evidence that billionaires as a class shouldn’t be allowed to exist in the first place.
I’d just like to point out that every single thing that has happened in the 6 years since I created this post has only reinscribed its absolute moral correctness in my mind.
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"I can drop you in another country." "I'd be back in Gotham in 3.5 minutes." "How?" "I'm resourceful." "That's not an answer."
HELP, THEY'RE BOTH MY PRECIOUS LITTLE GUYS
