#gendered oppression

so weird when people start talking about how "men can't be oppressed simply because theyre men" and then start listing all the reasons that- huh- men *can* be oppressed simply because theyre men, and then trying to put a different spin on it???

like im so confused

so youre going to tell me that men being told "don't cry" "dont do *that* job that's for *girls*" "that couldnt happen to *you*, youre a *man*" is.. not men being oppressed... because.. theyre men...??

and it's like-

trans/misogyny and trans/misandry can and do co-exist. because misogyny is oppression against women and/or women-aligned people and/or people perceived as women in some way, and misandry is oppression against men and/or men-aligned people and/or people perceived as men in some way. often at the expense of the other group.

for example:

telling a woman, "don't do *that*, thats for *men*, do *this* instead" - that is misogyny and misandry. how? because you're implying that a woman cannot do this so-called "manly" thing, because it's "not suitable for girls", and then telling her to do this other thing instead, indirectly implying that this more "feminine" activity is *for* women, and therefore *not* for men... which implies that men can't do that thing because it's not "manly" enough.

the reason trans/misogyny and trans/misandry co-exist and overlap is because it is, at it's foundation, oppression. it is the oppression of a certain group of people because of the idea that certain genders cannot and should not do activities (and etc.) that society have deemed unacceptable for that group.

women not being taken seriously by healthcare providers, simply on the basis that theyre women? misogyny (and misandry, because it implies that men have a different [higher] level of knowledge/autonomy of their bodies than women do, which is frankly untrue)

men not being taken seriously by SA/R help/survivors, simply on the basis that theyre men? misandry (and misogyny, because it implies that only women could be so "weak" [untrue] as to be able to have been SA/R'd, which is patently untrue)

women being told to go into nursing instead of doctorate school, simply on the basis that theyre women? misogyny AND misandry

men being told to go out and get a job instead of staying at home to help with the house/kids, simply on the basis that theyre men? misandry AND misogyny

do you see the pattern? the answer to solving or helping trans/misogyny is not to turn that rhetoric back on trans/men- that's what's already been happening! misogyny CANNOT exist without misandry, and misandry CANNOT exist without misogyny. oppression cannot exist without oppression.

if you are not in control of your emotions (unless it is, perhaps, anger), and unless you like these certain things? you're not a *real* man, then

if you are not emotional/reactive to things (unless it is, perhaps, anger), and unless you like these certain things? you're not a *real* woman, then

to defeat misogyny and misandry (gendered oppression), then you cannot perpetuate the idea that one gender is better than the other, or that only certain genders can do certain things. you have to break the idea that only certain ideas/tasks etc. are for certain genders. it cannot be *equality* unless all are equal. it doesn't mean boost women up while tearing men down, it doesn't men keeping women oppressed, it means evening the playing field.

allow women to be publicly strong, publicly weak, publicly *everything* that is human because being strong, smart, weak, emotional, angry, joyful etc. is not gendered.

allow men to be publicly strong, publicly weak, publicly *everything* that is human because being strong, smart, weak, emotional, angry, joyful etc. is not gendered.

men of color don’t experience racism tm

Trans men don’t experience transphobia tm

Disabled men don’t experience ableism tm

Neurodivergent men don’t experience ableism tm

Gay men don’t experience homophobia tm

-role. Trans men similarly are punished not for their masculinity but for rejecting femininity while transwomen are punished for the inverse. homophobia and transphobia are, i think, rooted in the belief that women are inferior and therefore women must remain servile & it is demeaning for a man to behave like one. Which imo is distinct from just the concept of gender.

I definitely think you’ve hit on something important with highlighting misogyny specifically. I honestly think that the establishment of gender as a social class exists specifically as a form of misogyny/patriarchy. Gender is a necessary part of creating a patriarchy, because it allows one group to have their labor valued and the other have their labor devalued. Different patriarchal cultures might draw the lines of gender in different places or have different genders, but so long as they exist within a capitalist patriarchy, they are enforcing some form of gendered oppression. 

I think homophobia and transphobia and all of their variants and intersections can largely be attributed to the society attempting to “correct” and “enforce” the wide spectrum of human existence into those genders, because without those genders, the whole system of privilege and oppression on that axis is threatened. 

And I think that’s why especially hyper-capitalist and fascist states have such rigid and opposite gender roles. They need to make it almost comically binary and restricting ( most importantly completely separate and mutually exclusive from the other category) in order to have clear cut ways to enforce the institution of gendered oppression.

I think trans women are so threatening to these patriarchal states because to the larger culture is allows that those rigid ideas about gender don’t actually hold up. Trans women are living reminders of the possibility of breaking down the walls of those gendered classes, and because of that, they are targeted with severe violence moreso than any other group. They are the women most threatening to the patriarchy. 

Because honestly, as much as transphobia involves violent misgendering, something I honestly believe is that most transphobic people are not actually viewing trans women as men. No group of men is targeted with the same amount of sexual violence-based threats as trans women are. And men being harassed about gender presentation are typically degraded for their perceived femininity– where as trans women are degraded for their perceived masculinity (like cis women are). 

Nb people who are not partially male experience gender based oppression because we are not men, as well as nobinary erasure as you said (which is a kind of transphobia that affects all nb people).