BrassNori

Here’s a thought: what could Sigzil and Nale’s 4th Ideals have been? Skybreakers must take on and complete a personal mission in order to progress in their oaths, and we know both of them at least got this far. Nale’s is particularly interesting to me, in his immortal lifetime what could have been a quest so significant that it was worth an ideal? Was it merely surviving a Desolation to the end for the first time? I’ve considered it but it feels a bit like a cop-out. Any ideas for either of them?

The original Skybreaker oaths are different from the modern ones, I assume they swore those instead

Good shout, I hadn’t considered that. It’s a fair interpretation but is it so much that the oaths THEMSELVES have changed rather than the perception regarding them? We know from WoBs that supposedly the ancient Skybreakers also had an Ideal of Dedication in his response to a question regarding if one could swear to follow the pirate’s code.

My thought is basically that all the Orders have oaths that are extremely closely tied to their philosophy (The Windrunner philosophy is "I will protect" and ideals two, three and five all begin with those exact words, with four being closely related. The Lightweavers philosophy is "I will speak my truth" and their ideals are literally them speaking their truths, so on and so forth. The modern Skybreakers, on the other hand, are VERY different. I think the second ideal that Szeth swears (that he will seek justice until he finds a more perfect ideal) may be a version of the original, because Sanderson has said that the usual second ideal for a Skybreaker is "I will put the law above all else", which is... very much not their philosophy of seeking justice. The laws in pretty much every Rosharan nation are, as we see, less than just. They call it the Ideal of Justice still, though. The rest of the Skybreaker oaths seem to have very little to do with their actual philosophy. As you mentioned, a Skybreaker could swear their third ideal to something wildly unjust and that would be fine. They could go on a quest which would cause people to suffer injustices and welp, doesn't matter, quest complete as long as their spren allows it. Makes me think those aren't the real ideals, also sorry for the yap sesh I just love... well, yapping.

You’re in good company then, I also love yapping. Really good point regarding the continuity between Radiant Oaths, it IS interesting to see how distinct each of the Skybreaker Oaths are. The connection between the ideals is definitely more tenuous, it’s a clear question of law vs. justice. They echo Nale’s corruption of the Skybreakers: a focus on obedience and mindless devotion rather than the true pursuit of justice. With that said though I feel like the higher ideals were left untainted. Notably the 5th Ideal wasn’t achieved by ANYBODY in centuries, and the 4th Ideal specifically revolves around taking action into your own hands (and judging by Szeth’s quest, potentially dipping into illegality). I think these better echo what the Skybreakers SHOULD be. I enjoyed the discussion

@diseases-for-center-control

Here’s a thought: what could Sigzil and Nale’s 4th Ideals have been? Skybreakers must take on and complete a personal mission in order to progress in their oaths, and we know both of them at least got this far. Nale’s is particularly interesting to me, in his immortal lifetime what could have been a quest so significant that it was worth an ideal? Was it merely surviving a Desolation to the end for the first time? I’ve considered it but it feels a bit like a cop-out. Any ideas for either of them?

The original Skybreaker oaths are different from the modern ones, I assume they swore those instead

Good shout, I hadn’t considered that. It’s a fair interpretation but is it so much that the oaths THEMSELVES have changed rather than the perception regarding them? We know from WoBs that supposedly the ancient Skybreakers also had an Ideal of Dedication in his response to a question regarding if one could swear to follow the pirate’s code.

Being a Shardbearer is objectively horrible, but which Shard would be the LEAST horrible to hold?

Whimsy, probably. Just not for everyone around you lolllll

Idk Maya seems pretty nice. I bet she gives good hugs.

You beautiful, storming genius

kaladin and szeth do have a few things in common. for one thing they are both people who, when asked what their "body count" is, would start listing people they've killed

[image description: tags reading "#except kaladin would be like 'it's impossible to determine a number... battle is so chaotic... does any soldier know the true count of the #lives he has taken at war? how cheaply we hold men's lives that we can kill them and not even know the weight of what we've destroyed' #and szeth would be like 'i've killed 10535 people and each one is a nail i'm driving directly into my eye 👍' #then whoever asked the question is like 'i mean how many people have you slept with' and they're both like 'oh, zero' #stormlight archive #szeth son son vallano #kaladin stormblessed". End description]

And then it hit Pibu, Kaladin was his Tien.