was thinking abt the difference in how (some) people view women's products as "things companies are trying to sell to women" while men's products are "things men want as consumers" and like. men's desires are constructed by the patriarchy. this is the problem w engaging w the concept of the patriarchy as like, the culmination of every single individual man's active desires instead of a system inherently intertwined with other systems of power. like men are constructed manhood is sold to you! if you think that everything the patriarchy says about women is a lie but you take it at it's word on The Ways Men Naturally Are. I simply need you to rethink things
From I Am A Transwoman. I Am In The Closet. I Am Not Coming Out. by Jennifer Coates
when you post "The Article About Internalized Transmisogyny" to make a point about masculinity jfc
The Article About Internalized Transmisogny literally ends by making a point about manhood and masculinity and misandry in queer/feminist spaces:
I hate that the only effective response I can give to âboys are shitâ is âwell Iâm not a boy.â I feel like I am selling out the boy in baseball pajamas that sat with me on the bed while I tried to figure out which one I was supposed to be, and the boys who I have met and loved from inside my boy suitâwho believed they were talking to a boy. I feel like I am burning the history of the naked body that sits on the floor of my shower. The body that went to prom in a boxy tuxedo and coveted the dresses.
Because I am not a boy, but I had a boyhood. I was, and am, made to live as a boy and I cannot suspend the perspective that gave me and join in when itâs time to fluster one of those clueless fuckers into anger by calling him a fuckboi and then tell him his anger proves heâs a fuckboi, or to humiliate one with an OKCupid screenshot because weâve willfully conflated the clumsy ones with the threatening ones so we can grab those solidarity faves. Itâs fucked up. It has metastasized.
More than a few out transwomen have told me, privately, they they are uncomfortable with these things, but are afraid that speaking up about it would cause ciswomen to like and trust them less. âI play along,â one of them told me, âbecause in the queer community the only people who defend cisboys are cisboys. I donât want to give up finally being read as a girl.â
Another says âI do the misandry stuff because itâs an easy way to earn queer cred points, but when I think about it it makes me uncomfortable.â
Another: âItâs a coping habit Iâm not proud of. If I agree âgirls rule boys droolâ it makes me feel more like a girl.â
Have you noticed, when a product is marketed in an unnecessarily gendered way, that the blame shifts depending on the gender? That a pink pen made âfor womenâ is (and this is, of course, true) the work of idiotic cynical marketing people trying insultingly to pander to what they imagine women want? But when they make yogurt âfor menâ it is suddenly about how hilarious and fragile masculinity is â how men canât eat yogurt unless their poor widdle bwains can be sure it doesnât make them gay? #MasculinitySoFragile is aimed, with smug malice, at menânot marketers.
This conclusionâwidely sharedâis a product of insulated discourse. What I am NOT saying is: âopen the floodgates, let in the shitty male trolls!â I know the trollsâthey have tried to be my friends, they have tried to sneak into feminist spaces with no desire to learn or listen. I understand not trusting men who loudly and constantly hold forth on womenâs issues and refuse to accept when they are mistaken. Iâm not encouraging anyone to trust blindly. I am pleading to the discoursers: consider that this insulation has effects and try to mitigate them, if your priority really is finding truth amid a muck of concealed patriarchal lies. Check to see if maybe you are saying things and reproducing things mostly because it sounds good and feels good and nobody is challenging them.
These are not discursive problems that only apply to an âundercoverâ transwoman, these are discursive problems that are seemingly only visible to an âundercoverâ transwoman forced to carry multiple perspectives like bactrian humps.
Because I am interested in complicating your definition of maleness and of boyhood. I was born into that shitty town, maleness, in the remains of outdated ideals and misplaced machismo and repression and there are some good people stuck living there. They are not in charge. They did not build it. And I donât feel okay just moving out and saying âfuck yâall â bootstrap your way out or die out, I was never one of you.â I want to make it a better, healthier placeânot spend all my time talking about how shitty it is and how anyone who would choose to live there deserves it. And to me that means considering them with charity, even when they make it difficult to. [...] Because itâs not a small deal that the words ânot all menâ have become entwined inextricably with male fragility and whininess. It makes it awfully easy to insulate the (largely cis-)female perspective on what males are. To begin a statement with those wordsââNot All Menââis to give grounds to anyone who wants to laugh at the rest of it. But here is the truth: not all men are what you think they are. Man does not mean what you think it means. Generalizing harshly and broadly but implying âyou know which ones I meanâ is an intellectual and rhetorical laziness that is not allowed to pass anywhere else in these communities. Because we donât get to choose who our words and behavior affect, we are obligated to choose them carefully.
'women's products as "things companies are trying to sell to women" while men's products are "things men want as consumers"' â The 'active male / passive female' schtick appearing for the thousandth time. That's the core of patriarchal gender and it's everywhere once you start looking.
Also, yeah, while it's cool that I get to stop cosplaying as a man, the things I thought sucked about masculinity were not only gender dysphoria. A lot of it was gender dysphoria. Some of it wasn't. I don't actually think most men are benefiting from the patriarchy, they're just being told they benefit while people are shitty to them.
Throwing this out here, but I very nearly went full-bore down the radfem pipeline yâall. It was a close thing. I forget what exactly stopped me, but I do know that the experience made me extremely vigilant about how others talk about the patriarchy and masculinity. Yeah, admittedly, I still sometimes participate in the âgirls rule boys droolâ type jokes, but I am very careful about what is said once the tone gets serious.
If we put aside the questionable humor and youâre still basically saying that masculinity is inherently violent or that patriarchy happens to women and is performed by men - Iâm out. Those beliefs are the first step down the road to TERF Town. Fellow cis ladies, we are often bastions of patriarchy the same way we can be hella misogynistic. Being oppressed doesnât automatically make us the âgood guys.â We have to deconstruct patriarchy just like we have to deconstruct white supremacy. And my fellow cis women we cannot forget that just like white women and white supremacy, our gender identity matching our genitalia gives us the closest proximity to power in the patriarchal structure - and thus can and will blind us to the ways in which people of other genders experience the system. Jennifer Coates is absolutely right to call that out specifically.
Patriarchy happens to men the same way it happens to women, and itâs bad for all of us. If you cannot agree with me on this final point without caveats, Iâm gonna ask you to step back and ask yourself why.




















