✨Witch Love✨

Hey friends,

I feel super awkward doing this, but I have to get my cats fixed in a few days otherwise my landlord won’t let me keep them anymore.

And I really can’t afford to get them fixed, so I’m just asking for help. My babies mean everything to me and I can’t mentally handle even the thought of having to give them up.

I got my first cat shortly after my dad died a couple years ago for emotional support, and he is my entire world. My second cat I got a few months ago and he just fills in a piece that felt like it was missing, for both myself and my older cat. And I can’t imagine ever going without them.

So please, if you’re able to, I need the help. I need these boys so much.

And like this isn't just me -- large parts of modern culture, songs, phrases, etc. are based on the understanding that the monarch of England is Queen. (What are the Sex Pistols gonna say, now? "His fascist... raging?") And with a relatively minor (and rather negative experience, at that) interruption in the middle, this has been the case for the past almost 200 years. This isn't something we can just CHANGE. I get that she was old and going to die, and if the monarchy was going to continue at all obviously they'd need to find some successor. But everything from that past few centuries makes "King whatever" absolutely incompatible with it.

So, like, obviously that's not an acceptable situation. Which leaves a clear solution

"Mr. Prime Minister, what must I do to become Queen?"

1. Aoroi (from αωροσ, untimely): “those dead before their time.” Those cheated of their full stint of life bitterly stayed back to haunt the land of the living of which they had been deprived. In theory anyone who died of anything other than of natural causes in old age could generate a ghost restless qua aoros, although as a class aoroi tended to be conceptualized primarily as the ghosts of children or babies. 2. Bi(ai)othanatoi (from βιαιος and θανατος, violent and death): “those dead by violence.” The battle-dead and executed criminals, although murder victims and suicides provide the bitterest ghosts in this class. 3. Agamoi (from αγαμος, unmarried): “those dead before marriage.” Both male and female ghosts could be assigned this category, although the female ones were regarded as particularly bitter, insofar as marriage and the motherhood consequent upon it were a woman’s defining rights in antiquity. 4. Ataphoi (from αταφος, unburied): “those deprived of burial.” Whatever the circumstances of death, a ghost could not achieve rest without the due funeral rights. These were importantly distinct from the mere insertion of the corpse into a hole in the ground, and indeed the concealment of a dead body in precisely this way is often presented as the chief obstacle to the peace of its soul.

Historically Sacred Items/Offerings to each of the Ouranic Theoi! I made this for my Hellenic polytheism group on discord, so I thought I’d share this information with all of you as well.

All information has been taken from theoi.com as well as various historical books on the gods, and I have decided to make this powerpoint so that other people don’t have to sift through all the pdfs and books themselves.

hello! this blog has been an amazing help as a white, pagan writer and i just wanted to say thank you for that! 

i have a book i’ve been working on for about a year now, and the short summary is that it takes place in a world where if enough people believe in something existing, it does. from urban legends, cryptics, and religion.

the main story plot follows a group of teenagers who are the children of biblical figures (and later hellensism, since those are the religions i used to worship and now do), but several characters are different religions than that. i can’t believe it’s taken me so long to realize this, but isn’t it kinda… off? to have jewish and muslim characters be children of greek gods and biblical figures? i don’t want to completely erase that part of them, and its also stated in the story that the religions they believe in are true, also, but i’m neither muslim nor jewish, so i don’t want to just assume it’d be okay.

(also, for context, the plot causes such a diverse cast of characters. they are brought together because of they are their children, like percy jackson, i guess)

Here is a recent post that listed our concerns with inclusion of Jewish characters in settings where polytheism is literally true: Can Jewish authors write polytheistic settings?

One way I might fix the awkwardness of having the child of a “Greek god” convert to Judaism (lol backwards Chanukah?) is if, as in the linked post, the “gods” aren’t actually on the same level of divinity as the entity in our prayers, but are just like, mortal superbeings that just happen to have way more power than regular humans. As for biblical figures, well, there are tons of Jewish biblical figures so if you want to write fanfiction about them that’s legit, just do your research to make sure you’re using Jewish interpretations about them that aren’t filtered through Christian analysis. (And there are also Jewish characters in the New Testament.)

Honestly as a Jewish person I would not feel left out if I was not included in one of those polytheism-is-true stories. I may off-hand wonder where we fit into the worldbuilding, but that would be less distressing than some kind of depiction of being stubborn, wrongheaded, backward, and ignoring the reality in front of our faces, which is hard to avoid unless it’s clear the gods are just, as I said, mortal superbeings and not literally divine and on the same level as HaShem. Which would be the other way of making me cool with it.

–Shira

Shira’s answer covers most of it for me, but I did want to come back to this part:

>>it takes place in a world where if enough people believe in something existing, it does.

There are a couple of things about this that don’t seem quite compatible with our theology, at least as I’ve been taught it.

First of all, this seems to be suggesting that Hashem was created by humans, through their belief? I don’t love that. I pray multiple times a day to the ‘Master of the universe, Who reigned before any form was created.’ Proposing a deity that exists simply because people believe in it doesn’t answer many of the questions that religions set out to deal with, such as ‘How did we get here?’ and ‘What does it all mean?’ And it’s fundamentally not the God I pray to.

Secondly, although this is pretty much what Shira already said, I want to point out again that monotheism and polytheism are obviously not compatible, unless you add certain caveats. Our prayers and other sacred texts repeatedly emphasise the ultimate Oneness of Hashem. Judaism just can’t be right in a world where Hellenism is also right, unless you go with the Greek gods being nothing more than humans with superpowers. In the post that Shira linked to, we already talked about including Jewish characters in polytheism-as-fact settings, and we highlighted the diversity of Jewish opinions on this (Shira and Dierdra: Yes, IF…; me: Pass, BUT…). I thought this was important to bring up again, because this sounds like an ‘all religions are true’ story and I wanted to highlight that these are not as inclusive as they may at first sound. They’re actually very difficult to pull off respectfully. Usually (not always), people who write that kind of story are the folks who have never had to fight for their beliefs or have them seen as anything other than the norm.

Finally, I’m curious about what this premise means for racism and other bigotries. Many people believe in a type of monster called a Jew who controls government and finance and kills babies for fun. Does that exist in your story, too? I’m not saying you can’t go ahead with this premise, but just something to think about: maybe there should be some checks and balances on the it’s believed = it’s true thing.

On another note, as Shira touched on, I was confused by this part:

>> to have jewish and muslim characters be children of greek gods and biblical figures?

According to our own traditions, we are the descendants of Biblical figures? I’m not sure what you thought would be off about that, but it would be kind of cool to see a character being singled out Percy Jackson style because they were a descendant of Yitzchak and Rivka – as long as it was well-researched and executed in line with how we view these figures.

–Shoshi

One way I might fix the awkwardness of having the child of a “Greek god” convert to Judaism (lol backwards Chanukah?) is if, as in the linked post, the “gods” aren’t actually on the same level of divinity as the entity in our prayers, but are just like, mortal superbeings that just happen to have way more power than regular humans.

No, you can’t. 

First of all, remember that you were answering a pagan writer’s question, so you Have To look at their side of things and understand their religion. You completely dismissed their religion, using airquotes for “gods” as if mocking and saying they could never be gods and they’re just silly for saying this. Their gods (my gods) are Gods. They are. What you just said is that they aren’t, to worship them is silly, and that they are just mortal. You’re being offensive to the extreme. Pagans have their religion dismissed enough as it is, you can’t just say this.

Second of all, why the fuck would they have to convert? Religions can co-exist easily. Don’t we have real-life pagans and real-life Jewish and Muslims all co-existing at the same time? The story is about belief and faith. You can have Jewish characters who are descendants of biblical figures and characters who are children of greek gods in the same story without changing anyone. Make a Jewish character, make them eat kosher and pray and be a Jewish character, and have them say they believe in their god, and you can have a greek character smile and nod along because that’s how people are in real-life. 

I thought this was important to bring up again, because this sounds like an ‘all religions are true’ story and I wanted to highlight that these are not as inclusive as they may at first sound.

this is also true. All religions do clash in one way or the other. How will you have a Greek Myth be right at the same time as a Norse Myth or a Christian Myth? are each divinity/pantheon of their own universe that has melded into one singular universe? What’s the inter-pantheon politics like? Is it the deities or the power of belief that gives them power? I would hesitate to even have a Percy Jackson style mix with different pagan gods together because they all contradict each other. That doesn’t mean to say you can’t do it, just that it will have to be very very carefully planned out, unless you go with what I said above and just have your characters exist for the sake of existing like real people do. 

Usually (not always), people who write that kind of story are the folks who have never had to fight for their beliefs or have them seen as anything other than the norm.

I am once again reminding you that OP is pagan. They have had to fight for their beliefs. Paganism might have not been oppressed in the way Judaism has been, but it has still been oppressed. We aren’t Christianity, we aren’t some big religion who has been trying to wipe out all others for the past two thousand years, we have also been burnt alive for our beliefs. I’m not comparing the two oppressions, I am just pointing out that you are dismissing their struggles too.

I’m curious about what this premise means for racism and other bigotries.

Setting asside the numerous theological differences between the Abarahamic Religions. If the Hellenistic gods exists alongside the god of Abaraham and are equally powerful to the god of Abraham than Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are all factually wrong about the nature of their god. Setting aside the differences in how they conceptualize their god Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all conceptualize that their god is unique in its power, wholeness, and existence. And that uniqueness is at the core of these religions.

If Zeus exists and exists as an equal to God than Judaism, Christisnity, and Islam are wrong. They are false religions that worship a false god that falsely asserts itself as the one true god that is unique in its perfect existence. It means Jews, Muslims, and Christians are in an abusive relationship with a god that has spent 2,000 years gaslighting them.

With that said I agree that they are being incredibly incensitive to the struggles of Neo-Pagans and they are being overly dismissive of your religion. They could have comunicated this issue with greater sensitivity and they know better.

hello! this blog has been an amazing help as a white, pagan writer and i just wanted to say thank you for that! 

i have a book i’ve been working on for about a year now, and the short summary is that it takes place in a world where if enough people believe in something existing, it does. from urban legends, cryptics, and religion.

the main story plot follows a group of teenagers who are the children of biblical figures (and later hellensism, since those are the religions i used to worship and now do), but several characters are different religions than that. i can’t believe it’s taken me so long to realize this, but isn’t it kinda… off? to have jewish and muslim characters be children of greek gods and biblical figures? i don’t want to completely erase that part of them, and its also stated in the story that the religions they believe in are true, also, but i’m neither muslim nor jewish, so i don’t want to just assume it’d be okay.

(also, for context, the plot causes such a diverse cast of characters. they are brought together because of they are their children, like percy jackson, i guess)

Here is a recent post that listed our concerns with inclusion of Jewish characters in settings where polytheism is literally true: Can Jewish authors write polytheistic settings?

One way I might fix the awkwardness of having the child of a “Greek god” convert to Judaism (lol backwards Chanukah?) is if, as in the linked post, the “gods” aren’t actually on the same level of divinity as the entity in our prayers, but are just like, mortal superbeings that just happen to have way more power than regular humans. As for biblical figures, well, there are tons of Jewish biblical figures so if you want to write fanfiction about them that’s legit, just do your research to make sure you’re using Jewish interpretations about them that aren’t filtered through Christian analysis. (And there are also Jewish characters in the New Testament.)

Honestly as a Jewish person I would not feel left out if I was not included in one of those polytheism-is-true stories. I may off-hand wonder where we fit into the worldbuilding, but that would be less distressing than some kind of depiction of being stubborn, wrongheaded, backward, and ignoring the reality in front of our faces, which is hard to avoid unless it’s clear the gods are just, as I said, mortal superbeings and not literally divine and on the same level as HaShem. Which would be the other way of making me cool with it.

–Shira

Shira’s answer covers most of it for me, but I did want to come back to this part:

>>it takes place in a world where if enough people believe in something existing, it does.

There are a couple of things about this that don’t seem quite compatible with our theology, at least as I’ve been taught it.

First of all, this seems to be suggesting that Hashem was created by humans, through their belief? I don’t love that. I pray multiple times a day to the ‘Master of the universe, Who reigned before any form was created.’ Proposing a deity that exists simply because people believe in it doesn’t answer many of the questions that religions set out to deal with, such as ‘How did we get here?’ and ‘What does it all mean?’ And it’s fundamentally not the God I pray to.

Secondly, although this is pretty much what Shira already said, I want to point out again that monotheism and polytheism are obviously not compatible, unless you add certain caveats. Our prayers and other sacred texts repeatedly emphasise the ultimate Oneness of Hashem. Judaism just can’t be right in a world where Hellenism is also right, unless you go with the Greek gods being nothing more than humans with superpowers. In the post that Shira linked to, we already talked about including Jewish characters in polytheism-as-fact settings, and we highlighted the diversity of Jewish opinions on this (Shira and Dierdra: Yes, IF…; me: Pass, BUT…). I thought this was important to bring up again, because this sounds like an ‘all religions are true’ story and I wanted to highlight that these are not as inclusive as they may at first sound. They’re actually very difficult to pull off respectfully. Usually (not always), people who write that kind of story are the folks who have never had to fight for their beliefs or have them seen as anything other than the norm.

Finally, I’m curious about what this premise means for racism and other bigotries. Many people believe in a type of monster called a Jew who controls government and finance and kills babies for fun. Does that exist in your story, too? I’m not saying you can’t go ahead with this premise, but just something to think about: maybe there should be some checks and balances on the it’s believed = it’s true thing.

On another note, as Shira touched on, I was confused by this part:

>> to have jewish and muslim characters be children of greek gods and biblical figures?

According to our own traditions, we are the descendants of Biblical figures? I’m not sure what you thought would be off about that, but it would be kind of cool to see a character being singled out Percy Jackson style because they were a descendant of Yitzchak and Rivka – as long as it was well-researched and executed in line with how we view these figures.

–Shoshi

One way I might fix the awkwardness of having the child of a “Greek god” convert to Judaism (lol backwards Chanukah?) is if, as in the linked post, the “gods” aren’t actually on the same level of divinity as the entity in our prayers, but are just like, mortal superbeings that just happen to have way more power than regular humans.

No, you can’t. 

First of all, remember that you were answering a pagan writer’s question, so you Have To look at their side of things and understand their religion. You completely dismissed their religion, using airquotes for “gods” as if mocking and saying they could never be gods and they’re just silly for saying this. Their gods (my gods) are Gods. They are. What you just said is that they aren’t, to worship them is silly, and that they are just mortal. You’re being offensive to the extreme. Pagans have their religion dismissed enough as it is, you can’t just say this.

Second of all, why the fuck would they have to convert? Religions can co-exist easily. Don’t we have real-life pagans and real-life Jewish and Muslims all co-existing at the same time? The story is about belief and faith. You can have Jewish characters who are descendants of biblical figures and characters who are children of greek gods in the same story without changing anyone. Make a Jewish character, make them eat kosher and pray and be a Jewish character, and have them say they believe in their god, and you can have a greek character smile and nod along because that’s how people are in real-life. 

I thought this was important to bring up again, because this sounds like an ‘all religions are true’ story and I wanted to highlight that these are not as inclusive as they may at first sound.

this is also true. All religions do clash in one way or the other. How will you have a Greek Myth be right at the same time as a Norse Myth or a Christian Myth? are each divinity/pantheon of their own universe that has melded into one singular universe? What’s the inter-pantheon politics like? Is it the deities or the power of belief that gives them power? I would hesitate to even have a Percy Jackson style mix with different pagan gods together because they all contradict each other. That doesn’t mean to say you can’t do it, just that it will have to be very very carefully planned out, unless you go with what I said above and just have your characters exist for the sake of existing like real people do. 

Usually (not always), people who write that kind of story are the folks who have never had to fight for their beliefs or have them seen as anything other than the norm.

I am once again reminding you that OP is pagan. They have had to fight for their beliefs. Paganism might have not been oppressed in the way Judaism has been, but it has still been oppressed. We aren’t Christianity, we aren’t some big religion who has been trying to wipe out all others for the past two thousand years, we have also been burnt alive for our beliefs. I’m not comparing the two oppressions, I am just pointing out that you are dismissing their struggles too.

I’m curious about what this premise means for racism and other bigotries.

Niobe *mocking*: you’ve often dressed up in women’s dresses

Apollo: No

Apollo: I wear dresses. They’re not “women’s dresses”

Apollo: They’re my dresses. I buy them

Apollo: die mad bitch

You know what, I thought about it, and I decided I probably do know what you're saying.

You think that the Egyptian, Assyrian, and Babylonian Empires' treatment of ancient Judeans and Israelites is antisemitism.

It is not.

First of all, using the Tanakh (its ACTUAL name, leave your trashy supercecionist name at the door please) as a historical source is dicey. (Also, incredibly rude of you to condescend to a bunch of Jewish people about not having read your bad translation of our own holy books. Wow, man.) We know the Babylonian and Assyrian conquests are a historical reality from the archeological record. The Egyptian slavery and exodus, less so, although we do know the Egyptians exerted imperial control over the land where Israel and Judah are and the people living there.

Further, the Greek (Macedonian and then Selucid) Empire and the Roman Empire ALSO overthrew Judah and Israel and subjugated them, outlawing Jewish practices etc.

But, that is not antisemitism. Arguably, what occurred in the Greek and Roman periods is the beginning of anti-Judaism, an oppression of Jewish people for their culture and religion. Antisemitism, however, is an oppression of Jewish people for their ethnicity/physical existence, regardless of whether they assimilate into the oppressors' culture and religion or not.

Egyptians, Assyrians, and Babylonians didn't hate Jewish people BECAUSE we were Jewish. They just wanted to impose political control over our strategic land. They did the same things to many other peoples. Egyptians didn't care if you assimilated as long as you paid them, Assyrians successfully assimilated most of Israel (except the Samaritans), and Jews in Babylon did NOT assimilate and were later allowed by the Persians to return to Israel.

Greece and Rome started to resent Jewish people because they wouldn't culturally and religiously assimilate, and honestly, mostly this had to do with taxes. Many taxes in the ancient world were religious payments. Paying taxes to Rome, for example, sometimes meant recognizing Caesar as a God, if it was a religious tax issues in Caesars own name.

Jewish religion at the time also focuses a lot on overthrowing the yoke of oppressors, because that had been a theme in Jewish history. The idea of a Messiah is originally part of that narrative, born from the Hashmonian period when Yehuda Maccabias successfully threw off Selucid occupiers and established a renewed independant Jewish state. Jews in Jesus's supposed time were expecting the same thing: a hero with God's blessing who would restore their homeland and freedom to them. Instead, they got Jesus, who supported Roman rule to the bitter end, and who's followers conveniently blamed Jews for his death, despite the fact that he supposedly died via Roman capital punishment.

Christianity itself draws from some Jewish stories and cultural ideas, but it is mostly a Roman and Hellenistic affair, ideologically. Its all about conforming to political authority and pulling the teeth from Judaism, stripping it down to a few stories and ideas and then using it as a vehicle for Roman cultural assimilation.

Part of that process included demonizing Jews, literally. Check your Bible. I'll wait. The authors of the NT constantly twist Jewish authority to appear evil and Roman authority to appear as Godly and innocent and representing stability and divine will. Jews are the synagogue of Satan, the Christ killers, the fruitless fig tree waiting to be cut down, the olive branches that are cut off, pruned to make way for Rome. The early Church and contemporary Jews were bitter enemies. Christians sold out Jewish rebels to Rome, outlawed Jewish practices, and adopted creeds and practices (use of images, eating pork) specifically designed to keep Jews out. All through Christian history, Jews have been specifically targeted for oppression - genocide, theft, taxation, expulsion, being made illegal, rape, not allowed education or access to jobs, not allowed to own land, you name it, SPECIFICALLY because they were descended from the Jewish people who Christians CLAIM "killed Christ." All Western antisemitism, from religious antisemitism like blood libel to even "secular" antisemitism like the Dreyfus affair of the Elders of Zion, is the fruit of the poisoned tree: its roots are in the New Testament, and Church History is its trunk.

by definition, fanfiction a) relies on a centralized body of work (a source or canon) and b) is understood and intended as fiction on the part of both the author and the audience. for greek audiences, the line between history and mythology was largely nonexistent. when a text is a part of a people’s religious lives and practices, it’s not fiction to them, and calling a religious tradition fanfiction is more than a little reductive and ugly. fanfiction is written by fans of a particular fiction. it is simply mind-boggling to describe practitioners of a religion as “fans” or to assert that the relationship between ancient greeks and their religion is comparable in any way to the relationship between a modern-day fan and a piece of media.