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conceptual understanding of incommensurability could've saved paris of troy
bouncing off of @an-ruraiocht’s Iliad/Odyssey/Aeneid poll I’m curious about some other ancient Greek and Roman texts
Which of the following Greek or Roman texts would you say you are most familiar with?
The Iliad (Homer)
The Odyssey (Homer)
The Aeneid (Vergil)
Antigone (Sophocles)
Oedipus Rex (Sophocles)
Medea (Euripides)
The Bacchae (Euripides)
Another Greek tragedy (tell me in the tags!)
Metamorphoses (Ovid)
Pharsalia/Bellum Civile (Lucan)
Thebaid (Statius)
Another Greek or Roman epic poem (tell me in the tags!)
you can just war theory your way through the epic cycle as much as you want but the fact remains that the trojan war is the story of a foreign army killing and enslaving a city full of men, women, and children who had nothing to do with helen
there’s a cultural obsession with labelling all female authors as unintelligent or otherwise only capable of accidentally stumbling into brief moments of genius in their works that we need to start pushing back against
“I was always bothered when people say, ‘I cry to your music, it sounds like a diary, it sounds so personal,’” Mitski says. “Yes, it is personal. But that’s so gendered. There’s no feeling of, ‘Oh, maybe she’s a songwriter and she wrote this as a piece of art.’”
(source)
feel like it's related to the phenomenon mitski's discussing here - if women's art is only seen as unfiltered diaristic emotion then of course it can only ever be accidental genius, never created with intention and thought

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Euripides, The Bacchae (405 BC).
nip over to troy, bit of rough and tumble, big horse, bish bash bosh, back home to ithaca. simple as
it is like. i am deliberately not posting that much about the nolan odyssey because i don't have much genuine interest and i find the whole like outrage theater people do at adaptations to be exhausting and unproductive and often misguided + i don't really care what celebrities are doing. but zendaya's 3000-year-old iranian earrings are like. such an on-the-nose fuck you. like 1. you can practically feel the stylist going "oh, it's old, it must be on-theme!" without really considering that ancient cultures are not interchangeable. but also 2. there's a very clear and important difference between ancient greece and ancient iran, in that there's a reason zendaya isn't wearing ancient greek artifacts on her ears--ancient greece has a cultural cachet that ancient iran does not, by virtue of its position as the perceived origin point of "western" (white) civilization. they are just interchangeable enough that zendaya can wear the artifacts of one civilization to a premiere of a work based on the mythos of another, but just different enough that she can get away with one but not the other.
and of course there's 3. which is that modifying and wearing a cultural artifact of dubious provenance taken from a country the us is actively bombing (and in doing so presumably destroying plenty of historic buildings/artifacts) asserts a certain lack of respect for and/or sense of ownership over that country's people and culture. and obviously this is what makes it seem like such a specifically heinous move.
some additional interesting little tidbits from to catch a thief
bunny’s post facto self-reproach. reading the opening scene of tcat feels like being caught in the middle of a fight between narrator bunny and narrative bunny. ordinary actions are appended with strangely visceral adverbs; bunny asks for brandy “coarsely”, he comments on the fillet “grossly” etc. this along with the explicit understanding discrepancy between narrator/narrative bunny: narrator bunny is conscious of raffles’ scrutinizing eye/calculating tone etc, narrative bunny is drunk and unawares. if i were to guess at what exactly bunny seems to take so much issue with, i’d say bunny seems to see his past self as sort of focusing on the wrong things—ie the wine and dine instead of the impending job raffles is obviously suggesting
raffles’ jealousy! finally the turn tables. raffles and bunny are both quite clearly missing their old indulgent life, but seem to approach it in different ways. bunny chases the high via their rare night out, making the best of the “unpretentious restaurant”; raffles is dissatisfied with this—as per his wont, it’s about the robbery as much as it is about the wealth, and he wants to take from someone else to fill the hole. this little mental rift is exaggerated by bunny literally missing raffles’ hints as he implicitly suggests burglary over dinner half a dozen different ways and is met repeatedly by a bunny who is, to put it nicely, more than usually meandering on the uptake
a propos above the specific ire raffles seems to have towards belville—this is very much a one-sided rivalry for him; he picks at belville’s lack of hospitality and his taste in furnishing and is not at all subtle about his envy of belville’s position in society. add this to how the comparison practically draws itself—even the newspapers are making it! another man is being credited as his resurrection while raffles lies low, of course the once heralded compliment spoiled raffles is bitter beyond belief. at one point in the story, bunny refers to belville as “a better man than yourself [raffles]”—this is the point at which bunny thinks raffles is going to strike him. he’s hit at raffles’ sorest spot (possibly intentionally? raffles gets his own in at the underbelly by suggesting bunny abandon him during a job just prior to this)
a propos squared: the third ingredient is raffles’ now throughly neglected competitive spirit and love of the chase: he hasn’t had a cricket competition in ages at this point (the longest cricket sobriety stretch in well over a decade if he started playing in school) and his recent heists are probably nowhere near the adrenaline highs of his heyday plus this is the earl’s court era, which means he spends most of his day lying in bed pretending to be sick. raffles is taut like tug-of-war rope in this story (moreso than he has ever been before; bunny says as much explicitly) and it is not terribly difficult to see why.
the insane strain on their relationship. presumably sigma (everything above). raffles is more than ordinarily stern, reproachful, angry, etc for the the entire intro. for once, bunny is the chill one (quite possibly because he’s absolutely sloshed) and raffles, over-cautious and nervous. i’ve mentioned the climactic raffles/bunny spat in #3 but there’re loads of little tiffs in between: raffles refuses to talk to bunny for a half hour at one point (harsh punishment if rest cure is any indication), bunny affects skepticism on a raffles exploit at another (unclear if this is actually effective or if bunny just thinks it is)
everything in the rooms! odd conduct through and through. it is an odd job: far less in-and-out compared to previous operations but they’re also just so ?? languorous about it all. raffles sizes up the furniture like it’s for sale. bunny makes a snide comment about the building and a complimentary one about the linens. they have the lights on. they dump their haul on the bed, and in the illustration, are literally sitting on the covers when they size it all up. it’s like they’re at an open house—and ofc! that’s exactly where they want to be! belville’s flat, for all its apparent faults, is closer to the albany than any place bunny and raffles’ll live post-disgrace
parallel to this: avoidance of the earl’s court flat. they are not in it the whole of the story (it’s implied that they go back between dinner and the heist for champagne and coffee but like. basicallyyy); sharp disconnect from the halcyon albany days when they pre’d and after-partied jobs in raffles’ reception. here the post is on the roof of all places, despite a coming storm. the flat is theobald’s territory—they have to sneak past him if they want to get in, like a sort of tower dragon—the roof is freer, bunny can relax in a chair with a drink and it’s not five million degrees as apparently their room is (a shoddier “little inferno”! shock horror)
the aforementioned alcohol thing. it’s really at its worst in this story, as far as i can remember. raffles seems to be well aware of whatever’s going on and seems to go back and forth in his response to it. he prescribes bunny alcohol pre-job and encourages it pre-proposal but in the flat we have the “hand of a trained nurse thing” and on the roof when he offers bunny a drink he never retrieves it—in one hand he brings a chair and the other a candle and the drink is never brought up again. bunny seems retrospectively aware but it’s not clear how conscious he is in the moment
raffles is as nice in the closing as he is mean in the opening, continuing on a trend of being nicest to bunny when he’s sustained a particularly bad injury (ref also offering the last sullivan to bunny in knees). the anger’s gone as soon as the jewels are found but post-crack it’s to the point a role swap, with raffles fagging for bunny with the chair and the candle so on so forth etc
the milverton parallels! there’s a good smattering of little holmesisms in this one generally (belville calling raffles a six-penny mag detective comes to mind) but milverton is the definitely the strongest association. tcat is broadly a sort of milverton reversal: in milverton, the detectives become thieves and, in tcat, the thieves become detectives. see also: the “if he stays, so i do” quote, reminiscent of the milverton “both or none”, and the unwitting but witnessed death of both antagonists
the truly biblical storm. like i don’t even have commentary; it’s just insane how dramatic this story gets by the end. bunny first references the weather pre-heist, noting it as hot, but post-heist, it’s apparently absolutely sweltering. add also: the sky being completely black and the quickening thunder/lightning that comes on within minutes and climaxes with the story. plus bunny being chained up on a ledge in kensington of all places comparing himself to andromeda. complete tonal shift

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this all being from a single story. bunny
Was thinking about An Old Flame and I’m probably the last to put two and two together but like. Of course Raffles references Romeo and Juliet in the story where he fakes his death to get out of a marriage by being drugged and declared dead by an accomplice while there’s an ongoing epidemic in the city and the man he’s running away with doesn’t get the letter telling him everything’s alright and thinks he’s died 🤦 strong contender for least subtle Shakespeare metaphor 1901
the comments take this mostly as a joke but i'm so fucking serious. let me find my links. i'm not fucking around
"Heathcliff as bog creature: racialized ecologies in Wuthering Heights," Emma Soberano
Wuthering Heights and the Liverpool Slave Trade - Maja-Lisa von Sneidern
From Simianized Irish to Oriental Despots: Heathcliff, Rochester and Racial Difference - Elsie Michie
bunny 💀
just put the number in a conversion and apparently bunny spent the modern day equivalent of 40,000 pounds in one night on one game of baccarat. so i think i understand now why he was literally just gonna kill himself about it

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