t-shirt that says DON'T UNTIE ME FROM THIS MAST UNTIL I'VE HEARD THE SIRENS
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@theodysseyofhomer
t-shirt that says DON'T UNTIE ME FROM THIS MAST UNTIL I'VE HEARD THE SIRENS

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please say something about odyssey 4. i have my own opinion on what's going on there but people read it so differently
There's just SO much tension between Menelaus and Helen in Odyssey 4!!! She tells a story about how she was always on the Achaeans' side and helped them from within Troy, then he tells a story about how she was working with the Trojans to actively set a trap for the Greeks and tried to get him personally (among others) killed, then she drugs everyone at dinner. Is one of those stories a lie? Are both of them lies? This is not a portrait of a happy marriage or of a man who's just so in love with his wife that he's put the events of the past twenty years behind him! You have to wonder what exactly Helen is suppressing with those drugs of hers that are νηπενθές τʼ ἄχολόν τε, κακῶν ἐπίληθον ἁπάντων, "against sorrow and against anger, causing forgetfulness of all evils." I think (in part) that she's suppressing other narrative possibilities for their relationship, because we know in many accounts Menelaus does intend to kill Helen and comes very close to doing it.
Like look at the Trojan Women, where Menelaus is deciding between killing Helen right there at Troy or bringing her back to Greece to kill her there, and the scene ends with him assuring Hecuba that she won't have a chance to seduce him into sparing her life because she'll be on a different ship. The audience presumably knows that he will indeed end changing his mind, as mentioned in Andromache (627-631). I don't think there are any versions where Menelaus actually does kill Helen (although there were some weird local Helen cult-myths on Rhodes), but both his intention to kill her and her convincing him otherwise by baring her breasts are older traditions that Euripides is working with, not things he invented.
The Odyssey doesn't directly allude to that post-sack moment but I do think it's absolutely behind the text, and it's what Helen's suppressing with her drugs. Can't let Menelaus remember what happened during the war for too long, or he'll be overcome by rage as well as grief. The only things keeping that marriage together are 1) the drugs and 2) the fact that she's Zeus's daughter. He can't harm Zeus's daughter, especially not in the Odyssey where his status is premised upon his being Zeus's son-in-law (according to Proteus). So Helen has several kinds of power over him that prevent him from moving toward the other narrative possibility of outright killing her.
I do think it's significant that when Telemachus arrives in Sparta they're celebrating the marriage of Menelaus' son, whose mother is an enslaved woman. Menelaus has elevated his illegitimate son, and his legitimate wife, whose children ought to be his sole heirs, is powerless to stop him. In the Rhodian tradition, Megapenthes drives Helen out of Sparta after Menelaus dies. There's something very sad in the scene where Telemachus leaves Sparta and Helen gives him a textile that she made for Penelope to keep until he marries, something desperate about the way she asks him to remember her through the work of her hands. That's a woman who feels trapped.
i straight up do not believe that odysseus did everything he did to get back to penelope and telemakhos. or even that he did everything he could. wanting to return to them is not the whole story. i like the myth about odysseus pretending to be mad to get out of the war for lots of reasons, but one of them is because it's an attempt to escape the narrative, foiled by his love for his son, but also because there is contrast to what we know of him long after the narrative has sucked him back in. odysseus is no less kleospilled than anyone else! he fights for his pride; he makes mistakes; he gets worn down; he delays his homecoming, in ways that are and aren't his fault, all the time. he wants to go home. he doesn't just want to go home.
but he does try. by leaving ogygia he willingly goes back into the narrative one more time, and he never gives up until he finally returns. isn't that compelling enough? do we have to sand it down?
another reason this tension interests me is that odysseus does seem to question if it was all worth it. at least by the point that we meet him, twenty years on. that doesn't hit as hard if he wasn't invested in the war at all, right? if there's no definitive moment where he gets peace, there's also no definitive moment where he gets anything the war promised, either. there's that provocative simile where songs about troy make him weep like a woman whose husband has been killed, who is about to be taken into slavery, a condition he inflicted on countless trojan women. the sirens promise a version of the war that makes sense of his suffering. so he must be wondering.
but it's all very well for achilles in the underworld to say it's better to be alive without glory than dead with it: he doesn't have a choice anymore. but when odysseus tells that story, too, he must still be wondering. was it worth it? what can i do that would make it worth it?
a second emily wilson review has hit the nodyssey
Can I request Dionysus? Or Hector and Paris? Thanks! 💚
Here’s a Hector and Paris! (I’m still trying to figure out a consistent Dionysus design 🥲)

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“Perhaps it is the only way humans can be gods. We achieve immortality not through ambrosia and ichor but through history and reputation.” Stephen Fry, Troy
Helen and Clytemnestra 🏛️
i do not think i'm at my best on the internet. i'm often at my grumpiest, with no one to tell me it's time to stop posting, as some of you unfortunately know by having been on the receiving end. none of this is news, but i thought it was worth saying because i am really grateful to know so many people who want to talk to me about my favorite book, and i'm actually having a nice time discussing it with (checks notes) everybody in the whole world? can that be right?
by all accounts odysseus stans ought to be way more chill than we are. like why am i bothering with discursive practices and literary analysis when i could literally greet all criticism with "he was good enough for 2 goddesses, is that why you won't get off his dick?" and then skateboard away
won't lie sometimes i do want to bust down the door and go "well i trust everything odysseus says during the apologoi implicitly" just because i have to be different. just to feel alive

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catalogue of ships? no thanks, i'm asexual
catalogue of women? i would never buy a woman
catalogue of ships? no thanks, i'm asexual
Orphée ramenant Eurydice des enfers (Orpheus Leading Eurydice from the Underworld) (1861) by Jean-Baptiste-Camille Corot (French, 1796 – 1875), oil on canvas, 112.3 cm (44.2 in) x 137.1 cm (53.9 in), Museum of Fine Arts, Houston
Clytemnestra for @dykeganseythethird bc she’s so 🤌
Hello :) I'd be curious to see the flow chart you've developed to guide translational selections of the Odyssey if you're happy to share it! Both for using it for my next read and for guiding my friends/family into the book who are looking for recommendations after watching the Nodyssey. Thanks 💙
i formalized it just for you. and @ilions-end. but mostly you
i can only vouch for what i've read myself, but being as i am obsessive, i've added alternative paths based on comments by @finelythreadedsky and @doloneia! mwah

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Hello :) I'd be curious to see the flow chart you've developed to guide translational selections of the Odyssey if you're happy to share it! Both for using it for my next read and for guiding my friends/family into the book who are looking for recommendations after watching the Nodyssey. Thanks 💙
i formalized it just for you. and @ilions-end. but mostly you
Do you have any article related to the odyssey you'd reccommend as complementary to the source?
sorry i've been sitting on your ask for so long! i am not and never have been a classics student; i came across most of these articles incidentally or here on tumblr:
"the odysseys within the odyssey" by italo calvino
"a note on memory and reciprocity in homer's odyssey" by anita nikkanen
"penelope and the poetics of remembering" by melissa mueller
"a glossary of haunting" by eve tuck and c. ree (this is mostly about horror fiction and settler-colonialism but it has a gloss on the cyclops that i think everyone, certainly everyone american, should read)
silence in the land of logos by silvia montiglio chapter 8: "silence, ruse, and endurance: odysseus and beyond"
"the name of odysseus" by g.e. dimock, jr.
also ok it's very much not "good" but there's an article by w.b. stanford called "personal relationships" that just lists all his hot takes about the relationships in the odyssey for 25 pages. it reads just like scrolling the blog of a mutual twice removed. they let men publish ANYTHING in the 60s. i love this essay. i would read this essay out loud over discord right now if someone asked me.
anyone remember ages and ages ago when i said i would scan the stanford hot takes... yeah me neither