Lestat after drinking from baby jenks
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Lestat after drinking from baby jenks

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"That was a rule. That was a choice that we made."
bonus:
I don't disagree with the observation that a lot of folks in tabletop roleplaying spaces don't believe that game design is real (i.e., in the sense that they believe any GM should be able to achieve any experience of play using any system and refuse to recognise that rules are opinionated about what sort of games they want to produce), but I feel like putting that at the forefront is confusing the symptom for the disease. A lot of folks in tabletop roleplaying spaces don't believe game design is real because they don't believe that games are real.
I've talked in the past about how Hasbro's efforts to deceptively market Dungeons & Dragons as universal entry-level game have fostered a culture of play in which any appearance that D&D isn't a universal entry-level game is regarded as evidence that you have a "bad GM", and how, in order to avoid being a "bad GM", it's necessary to treat it as a normal part of the GM's responsibilities to constantly monitor the outputs of the rules and quickly paper over any gaps between the game the rules want to produce and the game the group wants to be play, like a cartoon train conductor frantically constructing the very tracks along which the train they're conducting is riding.
The trouble is that most players aren't stupid, and readily see through the act. They (correctly!) observe that the particulars of the rules don't actually seem to matter all that much, because most of the desired experience of play is the product of the GM's constant interventions, rather than the product of interpreting the outputs of the rules – but instead of identifying this as a problem, they conclude (again, quite reasonably, as they've probably never seen it done differently) that this is what tabletop roleplaying is. The GM merely pretends to be moderating a game; in truth, they're a pantomime-leader whose job is to maintain the illusion that we're playing a game with rules, when in fact what we're really doing is guided improv theatre.
And of course there's nothing wrong with guided improv theatre – it's a fine pastime, and one I've enjoyed myself on many occasions. However, it does put folks who really do want to play a game in a bind, because now there's this insurmountable communication barrier. You can say "I want to play a game, and these are the rules of that game", and receive what seems to be enthusiastic agreement with that premise; however, a significant portion of the people expressing that agreement think they're participating in a bit of kayfabe, like very dedicated professional wrestlers who stay in character even outside the ring.
Critically, nobody is necessarily acting in bad faith in this equation. The folks who don't bother to learn the rules because they think games aren't real mostly aren't fucking with you on purpose; they honestly thought they were yes-anding your improv prompt by pretending to care about the mechanics of play, and when they discover that you really do expect them to do all that fiddly dice math, from their perspective it genuinely looks like you were the one misleading them. It's just a fucked up culture of play garbling all the signals in both directions.
(Note that, while I've identified Hasbro's deceptive marketing as the ultimately source of this culture of play, indie RPGs are hardly innocent of perpetuating it. You only need cast a critical eye on the "Rule Zero" sections of many popular indie games to notice that many of their authors are all in on the idea that games aren't real!)
Dumb question: What does an opinionated, rules-heavy game actually play like?
Like you describe, I play roleplaying games as a guided improv thing. As a player, I describe in-universe actions that I think my character would take. In this view, the point of the rules is to:
Make something happen in response to that.
Make that thing interesting. Different people find different things interesting, which is why there exist multiple games.
Resolve disagreement. The world should feel real and players should not often think "come on, that's bullshit". Consistent rules make this a lot easier.
All these goals are perfectly well served if one player makes everything up, but when that's what "GM" means, it sure gets hard to find a GM. The reason to have rules is to take some of that work off their plate.
I'm willing to do the fiddly dice maths as the price of a fun improv night. But I don't enjoy it: it throws me out of the imagined world. So obviously I want the rules to be as light as possible.
Wait, actually I've found another possible source of disagreement:
The folks who don't bother to learn the rules they discover that you really do expect them to do all that fiddly dice math
The D&D 5e player's handbook is 293 pages long. I'm perfectly happy to read it several times and work through a dozen examples before I show up to the table, and to bring various cheat sheets, and to try to learn the rules that others explain to me. But I am simply not able to:
Learn the rules well enough to be able to play without constant assistance, in less than 3 or so sessions
Learn rules that don't come up for my character at least a couple times per session, ever
Quickly read and apply a rule for a given situation; either I get help, or it's a laborious, game-halting process
It's not that I don't bother. I actually, highkirkuinely can't.
It's the same for non-roleplay board games. A decent board game player reads through the rules of a medium-complexity game, forms some idea of how to play well just from that, and usually can review the game after playing once. I need one or two playthroughs just to figure out how to make legal moves, never mind a strategy.
So of course I want extremely simple rules: I don't like slowing everyone down! And simpler rules mean more gaps in the rules, where improv is needed to bridge from "the dice say partial success" to "He sighs. You're pretty sure you've just burnt a bridge, but today you have his vote."
so I'm gonna try to reframe how you're approaching this. How oppinionated a game is, and how rules heavy a game is are orthoganal axes. A game can be highly oppinionated and comparatively rules light, or it can be totally unopinionated and mechanically heavy. Heck, we can make a nice chart to display it:
I've included dnd 5e as a familiar point of comparison, but other than that, all of these are games I really respect the design of.
You have rules-light unopinionated games, like Into The Odd, where the mechanics are kept extremely minimal so you can bring them in at key moments but mostly just resolve everything through the conversation loop. You have rules-light oppinionated games, like monsterhearts, where although the mechanics are simple and streamlined, you'll refer to them quite often, and they'll be shaping play quite heavily. You have rules-heavy unopinionated games, like dnd 5e, where there's a lot of crunch and minutia to the game but a lot of it actually boils down to GM interpretation or gets handwaved away. And you have rules-heavy oppinionated games, like Vampire v5, where the game mechanics are pretty detailed and robust and will be pushing the direction of the game quite hard.
But lets discuss the one you asked about, "Highly Oppinionated + Rules Heavy". Vampire v5 is a game about playing as vampires, but it's not just that. It's a game about playing in vampires in a very specific setting, with a very specific tone and themes. Even compared to other editions of Vampire, it zeroes in on one particular experience you can have with vamp games: it wants you to play as younger, less experienced, less enfranchised vampires who need to come to terms with what they are, and must struggle to hold onto their humanity in the face of the monstrousness of vampiric existance. V5's mechanics all act to reinforce this. There's a tight loop of feeding and getting hungry, and the mechanics constantly tempt you with power (extra dice to your rolls) if you accept the risk of getting hungrier. And as you get hungrier, some of the dice in your dice pools are replaced with hunger dice. And when those hunger dice roll well enough, you'll start to lose control of your actions (there's a table you can roll on for the specifics of how) as your hunger takes over. And as well as creating complications you'll need to deal with, when you lose control of your actions, you'll go against your moral beliefs, and your humanity tracker will be degraded, making it mechanically harder and harder for you to relate to humans. Of course, if you want to stay in control of yourself, you can reduce your hunger by hunting, but hunting still requires rolls that can create complications, and the easy methods often also risk your humanity tracker. So, you see how it's all a big feedback loop? Each bit of this process is mechanically relevant. All the parts interlink and your actions have mechanical consequences that intersect with other aspects of the game. So when you're playing vampire, you'll find the rules are constantly nudging you one way or another, incentivising or disincentivising certain actions, or sometimes even actively forcing events. The way these elements intersect reflect the setting and its themes.
Playing vampire is what I'd call mechanically hands-on. At any given point, you need to be remembering to apply the mechanics so that the feedback loops actually work. If you handwave things in this game without requiring rolls for them, the game stops working because now you aren't tempted to increase your hunger, and so you aren't risking those complications and the whole loop of the game falls apart.
For the game to work, underneath the narrative conversation-loop there's a second layer of tracking the mechanics of things. And sometimes those mechanics will rear up and say that, right now in this moment, this is happening. And that loop will push the game forward without even really needing much GM planning. You can set up a situation and just kinda let the players do their own thing, and the push and pull of the dice mechanics will create a cascade of consequences and complications to deal with, and there's your narrative right there.
This might seem like it's hard to learn, but it's really not. The actual mechanics of a vampire game are pretty simple - I'd argue simpler than dnd 5e - but they kick in constantly. By the end of a session, you'll have got the hang of it, because you'll be getting a lot of practice and it's all the same underlying mechanic. Sure, last time you rolled Manipulation + Ettiquette to blend into a fancy party, and this time you're rolling Strength + Athletics to kick down a door, but it's basically the same mechanic every time, and the consequences - success, failure, bestial failure, messy critical - are the same each time.
Anyway. Here we get to the actual point of my argument, which is that simple rules needn't mean incomplete rules that require constant improvisation to make them work. There are a lot of games where the mechanics are extremely tightly written; they're simple and streamlined, but you will be using them constantly, and they will drive play. Like how I described vampire working, but with a much smaller character sheet.
Let's take Monsterhearts as our example here. Monsterhearts is a game about playing supernatural teen melodramas & romances - think buffy, twilight, riverdale, etc - and it's very much about queer characters. You play as a collection of secret vampires, witches, etc that are all attending high-school together and are all engaged in petty overblown teenage relationship drama. It's a lot of fun.
Monsterhearts uses the PbtA engine, which means it uses a mechanical system called moves. A move consistes of two parts: a trigger and an output. A trigger is something that happens in the fiction - "when you lash out angrily at somebody" or "when you're put on the spot" - and when that thing happens in the fiction, you always trigger the move. Generally you'll rolls some dice, and get one of three results: - The GM uses a GM move, from a list of Things To Do to push the narrative forward. - You kinda get what you want; the move will explicitely say what this means mechanically and in the fiction. - You totally get what you want; again, the move will tell you what this means. There's not really much interpretation. You do the back and forth of RP, and then a move is triggered. You pause the narration, resolve the move, and the move will tell you what happens as a result. You add that to the fiction, and then continue roleplaying. Like with the vampire example, simply applying the moves will create complications and consequences. You don't need to make these up, the game mechanics will tell you; generally, there's a list of options to pick from. For example, let's say you rolled the mixed success to Run Away. The move tells you that you get away, but have to pick; either you cause a scene, you encounter something worse, or somebody left behind gats a string (a metacurrency for emotional influence) on you. No need for the GM to make much up, the events flow naturally from the rules.
Monsterhearts's mechanics are very simple. I could teach you how to play in fifteen minutes. You can make a PC in 5 minutes. You can fit everything you need to play - literally every bit of mechanically relevant information - on two sheets of a4 paper.
I think the problem is that dnd 5e gives people a really bad impression of what learning a game is like. 5e's mechanics are fiddly and pedantic and unintuitive and full of exceptions and special class abilities in a way that means there's a lot of mechanical slop to slog through, but underneath that there's not really any underlying depth. So starting off with 5e conditions you to think that this horrible learning-burden is what all games are like, which simply isn't true.
The thing is that DnD's mechanics aren't really oppinionated. There's not really an underlying feedback loop like there is with Vampire, and applying those mechanics doesn't naturally push the fiction forwards like Monsterhearts does. So, combine that with how dense and finicky they are, and of course people will struggle to engage with them! And if you're not engaged with them, particularly if all the mechanical heavy lifting is being done by the GM, you're not going to learn them properly, and this is - as OP says - a self reinforcing probblem.
Once you're in this mindset, you'll take the 5e approach to other games, meaning that you *won't* see how they're different. If you try to run vampire v5 like dnd 5e, you'll be applying mechanics in a wishy-washy, arbitary fashion and ignoring bits when you don't feel like it, and the game won't fucking work. So the conclusion becomes that all games are the same, and the effort of learning a new game is wasted, because the game is never actually engaged with properly.
(Also, the dirty secret: everybody makes mistakes playing rpgs. That's normal. It matters less that you're getting every detail correct and more that you're keeping the big overarching mechanical systems - like hunger in Vampire - moving as intended.)
Maybe this sounds harsh, but reading through your post, it genuinely sounds like you've never actually engaged with an oppinionated game on its own terms; hence you view game mechanics as the 'price' you have to pay in order to do freeform RP.
Serious question: why not just do freeform RP? You can just do that! It's fun, and it's free. I do it all the time! Why are you actually bothering with all these dice and character sheets and rulebooks?
I seriously reccomend you play a rules-light, oppinionated game. Some of them are really not work to learn. (Example: Dread. Dread is a slasher-horror RPG using a jenga tower. Whenever your PC does something dangerous, you need to pull a brick from the jenga tower, and if the tower falls over, your PC dies. That is the entirety of the mechanics, you now know how to play Dread.) Actually experience an RPG as a game that's driven by its mechanics, engage with it as a mechanical experience and not as freeform RP with extra steps, and then reevaluate.
Excellent breakdown, saving to think about for our own rules set and intentions.
juvenile springtail
Really funny that the only person in the story not to go cuckoo bananas was the person with the most anxiety.

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nobody else doing it like me. particularly because the way i’m doing it is needlessly difficult
louis: racing ahead again, mr. molloy. let the tale seduce you.
lestat: [absolutely wrecked out of his gourd] you wanna fuck the tale. i know you wanna fuck the tale dan. you wanna fuck the tale so bad it makes you look stupid. the tale wants to fuck you.
work tomorrow is one of the worst things that can happen to you
The Outer Worlds is quite fun! Here’s my captain Laika Gasenko Alex Hawthorn, who suffers fatigue since hibernation and a botched hime-cut of her own doing

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Ideal work schedule:
I show up and am given a list of cognitively engaging but achievable tasks
I complete the list
I leave immedietly
Yeah this can't be left in the notes
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i know the way people talk about their pets now is probably how we’ve been doing it for all of history. a cat owner in ancient rome saw their cat lounging on the dining pillows and commented “he thinks himself to be the senator claudius 🤣”
[id: azune's official character art, overlaid over a list reading "psychology tricks to trick anyone: lie to people. Introduce yourself as the guy who never lies. If someone asks if you are lying, say you're not lying." end id.]
picture "raimond davinos' genes never stood a chance"

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TURNING INTO RATS WON’T HELP YOU WHEN I HAVE THE GUTTER FEAST CHARM, PAOLO
it is impossible to watch a movie. every night i think i want to watch a movie. no movie gets watched. because it's not possible