Shannon Lay Interview: Coming Up for Air
Photo by Joanna Grace Babb
Each one of Shannon Lay's past few albums have coincided with a significant chapter in her career. August was the Los Angeles singer-songwriter's first record released after she decided to pursue music full-time. Its follow-up, 2021's Geist, represented a pandemic-induced, intrinsically motivated reinvention. Covers Vol. 1 showed her finally going "full voice." Next month, she'll share Past the Veil, not only the debut for her own imprint All The Best but her most expansive collection in terms of sound and intended impact.
"Mirrors", a standalone single Lay released in 2024, previewed the direction she would take on Past the Veil. It was written in studio with producer and engineer Rob Shelton at Altamira Sound. Lay had never worked with a producer and full band so collaboratively, and the rich result was such that she knew her next album needed to at least sound like "Mirrors". Continued sessions combined the uninhibited vocals Lay demonstrated on Covers with her newfound goal to platform the L.A. creative community she and Shelton gathered. Lay mostly just sang, playing acoustic guitar on only a couple tunes, instead letting the pedal steel, strings, and drum machines (!) take the instrumental spotlight. The songs were more dynamic, even jazzy than she had ever done.
But in the span of a few months, to Lay, the mission of Past the Veil reared its head. The devastating results of the 2024 U.S. presidential election, followed by the January 2025 Southern California wildfires, necessitated music that acted as balm and solace, not by way of blind optimism but empathetic realism. Listening in 2026, it's impossible to separate Past the Veil from this context. The title track and lead single welcomes the uneasy feeling that comes from one door closing yet several others opening, assuaged by fellowship; the song was, appropriately, co-written by Lay, Shelton, bassist/guitarist Caleb Buchanan, and drummer/percussionist Adam Starkopf. "Horizons", released last week, turns on their heads the negative emotions associated with "feeling small", positing that every tiny action has a ripple effect. "It's quiet as a year of listening," Lay sings, "It tends to emanate." Later on, she boosts the open-hearted: "We need to feel the ways we feel and feel and feel." The rest of the album, too, finds comfort in accepting what we cannot control. "The goal isn't certainty / That's the one thing you can't count on," Lay sings on opening track "Moving", groovy synths and strums and fluttering strings morphing into a noir-ish, lounge-like sway. Just as her band provide her with a steady presence amid Past the Veil, Lay returns the favor on closing track "I Need More Water", offering a statement of pure inclusivity: "This space needs more of us."
Earlier this month, Lay spoke to me over the phone from her home in L.A., touching on her voice, self-releasing, touring, and the role of music in difficult times. Past the Veil is out on July 28th and is currently available for pre-sale on Bandcamp. Catch Lay opening for Alela Diane throughout California in August. Read our conversation below, edited for length and clarity.
Since I Left You: Thinking back to when you finished "Mirrors", you said you instantly knew that type of sound needed to be the entirety of your next record. Did you ever think of including it on Past the Veil? Or was it more that it represented a chance to start fresh?
Shannon Lay: [Each] one of those options passed through my mind. It was on the record originally, and then I just figured a tight 10 songs was the way to go. Releasing it ahead of the record was more of an experiment to see if people were into the sound. In my mind, it was so different from anything I'd ever done, but looking back, it's really not. It's just elaborating on what I'd established. I guess it just felt like a nice experiment with self-releasing, to see what the vibe was...It was fun. That song definitely could have fit on the record, but I think it's a classic B-side kind of feel.
SILY: At what point did you realize you wanted to start your own label?
SL: I had always been curious about it, especially when I put out my second record with Woodsist and Mare, Kevin Morby's imprint on the label. I was so inspired by that kind of relationship, to combine efforts like that. When I found myself with the option to try it, it felt really right to come back to it and invest in it. I do feel like it's kind of an amazing time to experiment right now. It's a bit lawless, so it might as well work for good people, too. [laughs]
SILY: And you can help your friends who make music, too.
SL: Yeah! I would love to expand on it, for sure. It's nice to create a metaphorical home for your art. It feels like a nice endeavor.
SILY: The covers album you released was the first one you put to tape since you took voice lessons, so I was heartened to hear the different and fuller ways in which you're using your voice on Past the Veil, too. Was the way the covers record was received an encouraging sign to continue to use your voice that way on this record?
SL: Totally, and I also did that record with Rob, who I wrote Past the Veil with. It affirmed our working relationship in this cool way. It also encouraged me to keep going in the direction of embracing more facets of my voice. It was definitely a step in the right direction and a great experience, because I've always loved doing covers since I first started playing solo. I'm so happy people liked it. Still, to this day, I think I get more requests for covers than my own songs. [laughs]
SILY: You play guitar on only a couple songs on Past the Veil, and there are some songs where your voice is treated very differently than it has been in the past. It's sampled and looped on "Honest Man"; when you sing, "Part of me is an honest man," "part of me" is repeated. There are effects on a couple songs. Was that something you were playing around with in the studio before putting on the record?
SL: A lot of it was done in the moment, trying to feel what the song wanted and how the voice would sit in the song in the most cohesive way. Some of it was in post-production, thinking about how it could be more interesting. I love doing harmonies and vocal effects. It's so fun what's possible...I felt like on this record, especially, the voice was such an instrument in the songs. It had its own malleability.
SILY: It seems like the songs on which you do play guitar, your voice is more like it's been on past records. I'm not sure whether or not that's a coincidence, but the ones where you're just singing are those where your voice takes on a different role than it has historically.
SL: I think that's the big difference with this record. Every day we'd go in, I was really open to what the song wanted. When I sit down to write my own stuff, there's a range that I go to, an intensity that I go towards...The exception [is] "What Does It Mean?", which is one of the few where the foundation was a guitar part I'd already written, and whose vocals to me are much more intense than I typically have done in the past. It was fun to mold myself around the music and see what fit in with the vibe. I do have such a range and do a lot of vocal work for other people...It's a skill I've been honing. It was fun to use that for my own stuff, to get some range and flexibility.
SILY: What type of vocal work do you do for others?
SL: If I could have one steady job, it would be going in and doing harmonies for people. That's by far one of my favorite things to do. For instance, I'm singing on [a new release] from my good friend Heather Jewett, who was in the band Gravy Train!!!! and is doing a new project. On that record, I'm doing C + C Music Factory-style vocal runs and silly "ah-ah-ah-ah-ah"s. [laughs] I've done stuff for friends who have more of a country vibe. I love getting weirder. [Harmonies are] the one element of music that I'm really comfortable working on the fly with, so I love offering that service to people if they need it, just going in and seeing what the song wants. I feel like I'm just scratching the surface. I'm really excited to keep going down this path.
SILY: Also to see how that continues to leak into your own music, I imagine?
SL: Totally. Another element to this record that I love that I've never done before: Rob was a producer on these songs, and I had never really worked closely with a producer before. The engineer inevitably becomes the producer, but this time, I...put my trust in his hands. I want to do it again. When that compatibility is right, it's so fun when perspectives collide. It was the coolest thing.
SILY: Instrumentally, Past the Veil is your most wide-ranging, diverse album. The title track, which you also released as the first single, was co-written by all the musicians on it. Do you think it's the track on the album most emblematic of your wanting to showcase the creative community around you?
SL: It was one of the first tracks that we did. In the beginning, you hear this little rain sound. It was pouring that day. That song is such a time capsule of the day that we did it. The musicians in that room at the time, Caleb is one of the craziest musicians I've ever met. He is so talented and so good at working on the fly and immediately honing a vibe. Rob was laying down those really dreamy keys, and he just came in with this bass. Since that was so early on, it remained one of my favorite songs throughout the entirety of making the record. It being the first single and title track felt so appropriate, and it being, exactly like you said, me wanting to highlight a community and camaraderie and coming together, and this record being a symbol of the fact that there's a lot of bullshit going on but we have each other and can get through it. That's enough to make every day a little brighter. [The title track] feels like a good representation of what this record's all about.
SILY: Was both our current political situation and your experience in L.A. with the fires on your mind when writing and recording these songs?
SL: Absolutely. We did spend most of 2024 chipping away at the record. When Trump got reelected, the purpose became clearer. Every instance of my heart sinking was this moment of realization, of getting much clearer on the vision and why I was doing this and why I was making something more joyful. We're a little bit bogged down by so many things right now, and it's hard to come up for air sometimes. Moving your body is so important. Being together is so important. We need outlets right now, and if you can't make music, that's why you love music. Even just listening to music can be such an outlet for your emotions.
[When] the fires [were] rolling around, the first thing I put in my car was my guitars. It was interesting to see what was important to me become so clear. Music is at the top of the list. I live in Pasadena just below Altadena. So many buds...had moved up there and built studios. One person I ran into was learning how to make violins from this guy who had been making them for decades. He had this wood that was hundreds of years old that he lost. It's these things that you can't replace that are gone, but in the end, it's so cheesy, but the fact that people made it out is what's important. All the things, as irreplaceable as they may be, are just minutiae.
It's been an intense time to be a human in general. It's important to find the joy and cry where you can, and take everything one step at a time. It feels like every step is such a leap of faith. I don't know about you, but I question whether I should even plan for the future. What's it gonna be? [laughs] It's so wild. To have [Rob's] studio for that year, and to have that outlet, was really amazing, and to feel what wanted to be made was this joyful encouragement. I felt really stoked that was where I found myself.
SILY: The songs on this record are meant to uplift. I can see and hear in the lyrics that not only are they meant to uplift others, but yourself. "Room for Less" is like a mantra, the way you sing, "I will make room for less."
SL: Absolutely. That song is funny to me because sometimes I'll hear "Room for less," and sometimes I'll hear "Room for this." There's definitely an element to songs where they teach me things during and after I've made them. That's one of those ones I'm gonna come back to year after year and get something else from. It's so funny. They're like little time travelers, these songs. Your higher self is making art you might not understand in the moment, but it'll click down the line. [laughs] I love it.
SILY: This is also by no means an escapist record. You don't shy away from darkness. I wanted to ask you about "Whom Gods Destroy".
SL: Almost all the lyrics from that song are lifted from this Star Trek episode [of the same name.] On the episode, they go to this planet, and it's just this husband and wife living on the planet, and no one else. It turns out that the wife is a hologram, and there was this crazy war on the planet, and the wife is a casualty of the war. [The husband] gets so angry in the moment that he kills everyone on the entire planet. He basically snaps his fingers, and everyone dies. That speech that he gives, he's talking to them about why he did this thing: Was it love? It was an interesting take on admiration.
In "Past the Veil", there's this moment of realizing there's more to this experience you think there is, and that there are different avenues to deal with your discomfort that lead somewhere productive rather than destructive. "Whom Gods Destroy" comes up because in that realization, you have to destroy your coping mechanisms. You have to destroy the parts of yourself you thought you might hold onto forever. In that moment, you're looking at the broken bones of yourself and mourning, even if those things were completely not serving you in any way. It's parts of you. That grief is real. I wanted "Whom Gods Destroy" to be a moment honoring that challenge. When "Horizons" comes up, it's like, "Now that we've sat with this grief, we can look forward and embrace more of ourselves than we did before. We have the realization we need to turn towards. We see the challenge we face when we do that. And maybe we move forward differently, with different parts of ourself embraced."
I'm a huge fan of tarot, and the Major Arcana has this huge arc that I tried to echo in the track list. There are ultimately these peaks and valleys of self-discovery and curiosity and life in general. "Whom Gods Destroy" is one of those valleys where you're staring at your own demise, but it ultimately leads to your revival, so it's all good. [laughs]
SILY: Can you tell me about the cover art for the record?
SL: My good friend Jonie took that photo. She also has an amazing music project you would love, [Jonie Online]. She's making a record that's going to blow the socks off people. She took that photo [when] we were in Debs park. I got lucky. Sometimes, the art is so clear. I gave her a brief description of what I was imagining, and she so thoroughly delivered. All of that was done in-camera. She's holding up a crystal to one side to create the blurred effect. It led to the theme of the record, which is, "Where you thought there was an end, there's just a beginning," feeling this ability to shift dimensions within yourself and how that can ultimately change the trajectory of your outer world, too. The idea of entering this other dimension and coming out the other side with the new knowledge of it all, was the idea.
SILY: It reminds me of when you sing on "Past the Veil", "Can this wall be nothing but a hall?"
SL: Exactly! The way I picture that is you walk up to what seems like an absolute end of a situation, and you look to your right and left and there are so many options. You're just getting started.
SILY: Have you played any of these songs live?
SL: I did one show in Hollywood maybe a year ago now where I sang to the backing tracks, just to try it...It was a small show. It was very weird, so I think I won't do that again. I've developed a couple solo versions, of "Horizons", and of "Mirrors" even though that's not on the record. It's gonna be a journey of figuring out what it wants to be live. I wish I had absolutely infinite income to put together the most epic stage performance you've ever seen, but unfortunately I don't, so I'm gonna recruit a couple buds and have a release show planned for end of September where I bring everything to life in a real sense. I think it'll be about alternate versions with the live set.
SILY: If usually, you write something on a guitar and build it up from there, it's a bit easier, whether you're playing with a band or solo, to bring them back down. Because these songs were so fleshed out in the studio, I wasn't sure what you were going to do.
SL: It's a challenge for sure. I think it's gonna be cool. I have some good leads so far as to how to finagle. We'll see. [laughs]
SILY: Do you have any tour dates planned beyond August?
SL: I might do some touring in October. Touring has changed a lot in the last few years. I feel like I'm at a point of reassessing how to do it in a smart way. It requires so much energy and, at this point, is such a little return. It feels like you break even or it costs you money. Part of me is like, "I'll just stay home and save my energy." But I do love touring. It's been nice to get these support gigs. I absolutely love doing support gigs. As far as headlining goes, I just have to be a little smarter about where I decide to put in the effort.
SILY: These days, for artists who don't regularly tour, it seems like they might get invited to a festival and put a few dates around it, but the traditional album release followed by tour, most artists don't make any money on, and they get physically and emotionally drained. It's a rough economy and world for that.
SL: I feel like every level is feeling that. It's not just indie artists, it's the big guys, too. It's really interesting. It's just become so expensive to be. All of the basic stuff feels like a luxury...God forbid you want to be comfortable at all, that'll cost ya. [laughs]
SILY: Do you find yourself looking back to the DIY days with mixed emotions?
SL: I remember going on tour with a four-piece band, getting $250 per night at the most, and making it work. We never made any money, but there was always this ability to make it happen. [We were] going to weird small towns. I feel really far away from that reality. One thing I've learned playing solo shows is I love being in more intimate settings. I've been exploring the house show routes, and doing more DIY stuff feels like a callback to the old days. We've always been doing stuff like that, especially in L.A. We're so lucky to have the room for such great outsider events. Coming back to that feels good. I could tour the West Coast for the rest of my life and feel so content, it's perfect. [laughs] But I want to get back out there. I do miss the adventure of it all.
SILY: What else is in the short or long-term future for you?
SL: I have a really fun instrumental record I'm going to follow this up with, that I made during an amazing thunderstorm in Austin. That was, again, wanting to offer something meditative for people. I just want to help. I'm working on another covers record, volume 2.
SILY: Is there anything you've been listening to, watching, or reading that's inspired you?
SL: Some friends are putting out some really good stuff. I've been seeing Jonie live a lot. This band Tin Angel is really great, this trio of ladies just harmonizing the house down. Blake Burgess is a new face--he moved here from Nashville and is a crazy talented guitarist and songwriter. Alexander Biggs is another one. John Dwyer's been doing some really fun stuff. He recently released this really noisy, raw project that's great. I feel like there's a lot of good stuff cookin'.
SILY: John seems to be always releasing something.
SL: He's prolific. I think he's one of the most dedicated people I know. I feel like he has such a tried and true method for his madness at this point. It's just the coolest. I'm obsessed. [laughs]
8/5: Crepe Place, Santa Cruz
8/6: The Chapel, San Francisco
8/7: Caspar Wine and Bread, Caspar
8/8: The Center For The Arts, Nevada City
8/12: Soda Bar, San Diego
8/13: Pappy and Harriet's, Pioneertown
8/14: Lodge Room, Los Angeles
8/15: The Siren, Morro Bay