The Lair of all Evil...Also there's nerd stuff

I was looking through the comments on a social media site by a guy I really didn't like, because I was trying to get a better grasp on the guy, when I came across a comment they made about the ideal person to lead RWBY. And the way he described it was that this person must be: A. A weeb. B. A visually focused creator. C. A fan of action D. Super plugged into fandom culture And E. hyper-fixated on it to 'improve it in all aspects'. The implication being obviously that Kerry is none of these.

And while on the surface, I'll grant most of these could have a point. There seems to be a bigger focus on the Western YA adult side of RWBY's influence. Kerry is more of a writer, not an animator. I dunno about action. I dunno about the whole fandom thing, I think that's one of RWBY's original sins. ... So there is some merit here. But...isn't there something missing? Like, something really big to RWBY?

Yeah, no talk about this supposed ideal person and the actual writing of RWBY. Hell, this person even says that RWBY's real selling point all along was just the action, he seems to not care one iota about the actual plot, characters or the themes of RWBY. This seems to be a recurring element with older RWBY fans too, given that it was a major point in Hbomberguy's RWBY video (aka Harry ripping off old Monty fans). And I guess that makes sense, as Monty was well known for his fight animations, not his writing.

... But that's not the point of RWBY. I've come back to this Crunchyroll interview over and over again as it was my first big exposure to Monty and one part always stood out to me:

Threezero: What motivates you most to continue breathing life into this series? Monty: The biggest motivation for [RWBY] is the need to tell a story much like those I needed when I was growing up. The stories about not giving up that pushed me along, and the people I'd meet along the way. Knowing how much all the shows and games I'd played all my life has influenced me, it is a great honor to be able to bring something of my own to a generation of people who are also looking for something to believe in. That is why the feedback from the fans only further strengthens the need to make this show the best it can possibly be.

And this lines up pretty well with what we know about Monty. Despite what people say, Monty was very involved in the writing of the show. He's talked about stuff like how Beacon Academy's uniforms were made. Or how 'Keep Moving Forward' became his own personal mantra that became a part of the show.

Does that mean I'm saying that Monty hated the act of animation somehow? No, look back at what he listed as inspirations for RWBY. Many of these stories all had the same kind of 'rule of cool' stuff he pulled in his animations. But they were also sincere and honest stories that would be lesser if you just tore out the cool moments and threw away what was left. Evangelion wouldn't be the phenomenon it is without the iconic weight and feel of the Eva units in battle AND its story about people's connections and the pain of reaching out. And do I need to go off about Gurren Lagann again? There's a reason why these stories resonated with Monty: He probably vibed with the mix between cool moments and sincere storytelling. And he wanted that for himself.

I feel like beyond being a weeb or liking action or being into fandom: What someone needs to have to understand RWBY is someone who respects animation and respects the beauty of the human spirit. You can be as much of a weeb as you want, watch all the classic action movies in the world or be as fandom brain rotted as you can be- if you can't respect animation and the human spirit, you don't get RWBY.

People in the replies that they never respond to: "Yeah, RWBY's original purpose was just dumb action!"

Me:

In canon Roman stuck with Cinder's side because he knows that he's by far the weakest person in their dynamic, and how Salem's faction is going to change the world. He posits himself as a "realist" when he starts ranting about the "real world" being a cold cruel place, and how Ruby should just hurry up and die "like every other huntsman in history." He's not doing this for any particular reason other than to save his own skin

He's by far the most pathetic person working with Salem's faction. Everyone else there believes in something which is why they're there. Cinder sees following Salem as the best path to the power she craves. Emerald sees Cinder as family and follows the one person who gave her any sort of comfort in life. Mercury lived an abusive life of violence and sees no other way to continue. Hazel seeks revenge against Ozpin and has been so radicalized that he can rationalize himself attacking Nora and Oscar as Oz's sins. Tyrian views Salem as his goddess that embodies destruction and wants to see her end the world. Even Watts who has the pettiest reason of all is doing this because he feels like his genius was unappreciated by Ironwood. Neo if you count her seeks revenge for Roman's death, first against Cinder, and then Ruby when she realizes Cinder's far too strong for her to handle

Roman doesn't have any of that. He's a crook that got wrapped up in something far bigger than himself, and he's too much of a coward to even flee for fear of retaliation. He just wants a comfortable spot on the "winning side." The only person working for Salem who you could consider as pathetic as Roman is Lionheart who teamed up with her to save his own skin

RWBY is a series that sides with those who can stand up to their fears. Those that don't get punished or villainized by the narrative

Roman died in the middle of his big speech to Ruby. Lionheart betrayed his kingdom out of fear of Salem and pathetically died by her hands begging for his life. Raven loses Vernal and any relationships she has with her team and family. Ironwood's paranoia consumes him leaving him to die completely alone on Atlas rather than the people of Mantle he abandoned

Roman explaining his motivation in Fixing RWBY was retained exactly the same as canon. According to Celtic it was perfect so it didn't require any changes. This creates problems with him being the next Ozpin

He doesn't change to explain him joining the main cast. There's no overcoming his fears, no desire to fix his mistakes, he joins up with RNJR and Qrow because Oz keeps pestering him to the point that he can't even sleep until he agrees. Yeah. Sure. Go ahead. Act out of character to make the canon story happen. Fuck off Celtic

Rather understandably RNJR attack him on sight in V5, but once he reveals that Oz is in him they all accept him as part of the group. Nobody meaningfully confronts Roman on the fact that he tried to kill Ruby and was their enemy for the Beacon era other than Blake, his inclusion is so forced. They just put up with him as if this is normal now. Due to Oscar being a new face and decidedly not a criminal that tried to kill Ruby or helped in the Fall of Beacon, his inclusion to the main cast without much questioning fits a hell of a lot better

Roman doesn't grow to become a more heroic person either, at least not by much. He's still a conman thief that literally steals his way into the Argus train's deluxe car, and he's overjoyed at Ruby suggesting to steal a Bullhead in V6 because she's growing up so fast. He clashes so hard with the rest of the main cast, he's only a "hero" in the sense that he's working with them now instead of Cinder. I know it's the point for him to clash given his origins as a villain in canon but fuck that point

When Dragon Ball did this with Vegeta, he came closer to the heroes' values over time. By the Cell arc he starts training just like the others, he stops taking shortcuts to power because those methods are hollow. Imagine if Vegeta was still planning to become immortal and was purely abusing his body's zenkais by the Cell games to get stronger, only now he's supposed to be with the heroes. That's Roman in FRWBY

When Oz stops yapping in his head after The Lost Fable Roman leaves at Argus because Oz shutting up is what he wanted all along, he's made that clear since V5. The only reason he rejoins the main cast is because Neo thinks sticking with them is their best shot at getting Oz out of him, something she's determined to do

Celtic kept the similar soul rule for Oz's reincarnation, which means he had to be rewritten to be in Roman

RWBY is a series that explores heroism in a lot of angles, and in this discussion Oz in canon was the classical heroic knight. He saved Salem from her father's tower for no other reason than it being the right thing to do, just like the fairy tail heroes Ruby loves. No ulterior motives, no scheming, just simple uncomplicated heroics. In FRWBY, Oz is outright stated by Jinn to be "more cunning than brave," which completely destroys the classical heroics angle and him embodying the heroes Ruby admired

Throughout FRWBY's runtime we're given hints of Oz being a much worse person than canon. Raven says that Oz is just keeping the world the way he likes it rather than actually fighting for anything to improve it. When Roman's plan to trick Lionheart with a disguise Neo makes fails, Leo gets furious when it breaks because Oz will "do anything to take any petty advantage possible"

In canon Oz kept his secrets out of necessity because of Salem's immortality being a pretty strong hope crusher. He couldn't see a way to defeat her and knew if he ever summoned the gods they would wipe out humanity, so his hand was forced to drag this out as long as he has. In FRWBY him hiding the truth comes across as trying to bury his own much worse past than canon from the world. On top fo this his mission from the gods is too unclear for anybody in or out of universe to make out, and he only kept the war with Salem going because if the gods were called he was certain she would die

Roman is antithetical to the values that RWBY champions, and due to Oz's FRWBY rewrites so is he. He's a cynical, cowardly, purely selfish, conman criminal that tried to kill the main cast on numerous occasions, who tries to position himself as the "realist" compared to Ruby. And he hasn't grown to overcome any of his flaws either. You want to know the funny thing though? They fit right in with FRWBY. A series with a more cynical tone trying so hard to be smarter and more pragmatic than canon RWBY, rewriting an asshole and villain like Roman to be part of the main cast, and makes Oz far more villainous than canon? Yeah. I can believe it. It slots in pretty naturally. Big shame this completely runs counter to canon RWBY's themes

Of all the things I know of FRWBY, this is the most egregious, as it completely misses the point of the Oscar/ Oz dynamic.

I’ll start by expressing my views of Oscar - he’s a bland character with a weak introduction. I have never truly liked him. And it’s clear that Celtic feels the same. If it’s a question of character quality, Roman is the better of the two.

And to Celtic’s credit, it’s a neat bit of drama (in theory). A villain being possessed by a (supposedly) good soul, snd being dragged into fighting side by side with his enemies. There’s a strong dynamic here.

Issue is, that’s not what the Oscar/ Oz relationship was ever about. It was about creating stakes and tension.

Volume 3 onwards, RWBY focuses heavily on generating suspense. Volume 3 left people scarred, and the show is good at threatening to repeat the action, and even making good on a few promises, be it killing off a minor character or severely damaging a relationship. It’s to the point that whenever the writers announce that they had a good writing/ planning session, fans collectively ask, “Okay, who did you torture, kill, or mutilate this time?”

I’m not saying RWBY is Death Note or Psycho, but it knows how to generate strong suspense. It’s an underrated element of its identity, and one I’ve only grown to recognize through my own development as a writer.

And at the heart of it all is Salem: an immortal who wants to die, aiming to execute Armageddon with the hopes that she’ll die too. And she has the surefire means to do it. That is a terrifying situation. How do you fight that? It’s inevitable.

Well, there in lies the answer. The key to stopping Salem isn’t to kill her, but to unite the Relics on humanity’s terms. The God of Light even gave Ozma a loophole (paraphrasing here): “if you continue to demand our gifts while fighting amongst yourselves, humanity will be deemed irredeemable.”

What happens if someone united the Relics just to reject the gods’ gifts? That’s likely the solution - and no one ever considered it before.

But this creates a problem: the tension up to now was over whether they could keep Salem from uniting the Relics. If the key is to unite the Relics themselves, then there is nothing to really race against. They can take their time. In order to maintain tension, they need a time limit. After all, a hurricane coming in 3 days is more terrifying than the sun blowing up in 8 million years.

That is where Oscar comes in.

Oscar’s plight is that he will be pulled into a hive mind and lose all sense of self. The only way to prevent this is to complete Ozma’s quest. So, to save Oscar, Team RWBY will have to act fast and make hasty decisions.

And that’s most likely where the show is going, as the question of whether to save the minority comes up many times throughout the series: Ruby refusing to pursue Roman until she checked on the shopkeep, Maria telling them to leave Argus (with the team agreeing to stay and help), the entire Mantle debate, etc. it would tie well into the themes as established.

And that is why using Roman fails. He’s a better character than Oscar, but he is a cackling villain. We all love cackling villains, but we also love to see them FAIL. Using him as the final stake is a mistake, as no one can buy RWBY taking big risks for his benefit.

To Celtic’s defense, he has restructured the series so that Salem can be defeated by death, but it still functions the same way: unite the Relics. When Volume 10 comes out, we’ll learn whether Team RWBY will try to save Oscar or not, and Celtic will have to reflect on the functionality of this choice.

Ultimately, I don’t think he ever thought of the functionality of Oscar in that way. It looks like a choice made for drama rather than suspense, especially after The Artificer, which showed no understanding of plot and stakes.

Any good faith i was attempting to go in with (on principle, and to have the most objective criticisms of the material rather than merely taking common FNDM criticisms as my own) has been lost by this discovery.

To me this is far more damning of his character than a shitty fanfic.

https://nitter.net/Raymond_McNeil/search?f=tweets&q=Xel

Take their Shadversity video for instance, which apparently people think he's taking his side on????

He clearly isn't.

There's also an attempt to say that Celtic himself said FRWBY wasn't actually fanfiction but rather spiteful criticism.

Except that's not true at all and the links to the actual tweet point that out:

Someone said "this is why the RWBY community gets such a bad rep", except they got the order mixed up in their rant.

To be clear, no one’s claiming the FNDM is anywhere close to perfect. Like every fandom, we have plenty of our own bullshit.

And yes, the hyper-defensiveness can be a problem. Sometimes people in the FNDM are a little too ready to believe things.

What you may not have seen and certainly have not experienced is that we are constantly mocked, belittled, shut down, insulted and subjected to constant bad faith.

We are hyper-defensive not because we can’t accept criticism, but because we have to CONSTANTLY field lies about the CRWBY, grifts profiting off negativity around the show, complete and total disregard of the text in favor of narratives born of personal grievances , and personal insults aimed at us for daring to love a show accepted by so many as “objectively bad”.

Oh yeah and just outright bigotry and misogyny.

Is it everyone who doesn’t like the show? Of course not.

Is it a lot of the people who we as people who love the show have to interact with as the “critics” of the show? Yes. Oh god yes. So much.

Here’s the thing. I see Celtic’s tweet there. But this is his own playlist description for FRWBY.

Is it explicitly contradictory? No.

Does it have very different emotional implications? Absolutely.

“Infinite potential left to squander in a desert of inexperience” is pretty fucking harsh. Doesnt indicate a whole lot of respect to the existing show.

Also….Celtic himself has noted that FRWBY has rather diverged into its own beast. It’s a full-on AU at this point. Calling it “Fixing” and “critizing its weaknesses while elevating its strengths” when he has changed so many things are fundamentally contradictory. They also imply a level of objectivity that is absolutely not present. If he wants to write an AU closer to his own preferences, that would have been fine.

Implying (including via even the title itself) that his version is the “better” version of the main show when its become a fundamentally different approach to literally everything is just a superiority complex.

Cuties is completely legal in the UK, and they're still doing just about nothing about actual child rapists, but a vtuber drawing nsfw art of her own lolisona oc is arrest-worthy.

^ illegal in the UK

"But we're just shooting the shit and talking about other things too!"

1- Then maybe DON'T advertise it as a response stream then. Who the fuck wants to waddle through meaningless bullshit and personal insults just to possibly hear some good feedback?

And 2- Your fucking chat is a god damn circlejerk of everyone standing around sucking themselves off about how bad the subject is and the media it's related to is.

I just wanna say that the friendship between RWBY is so beautiful

though EP 7 makes me utterly dispirited…..(no white rose again(´;ω;`))

RWBY will still be my favorite anime until the end of the world….

We go forward.

image

This pretty much hits why I fucking hate this idea.

Like, to be fair, off the top of my head, Yang is the only ones who tries reaching out to Ruby (in the first and second episodes, though on could argue just saying her name isn't enough)...but Yang is also the focus of this 'criticism' 95% of the time so it actually fits. And that Ruby is clearly going through something.

... But that's complete horseshit. Yang DID try to reach out to Ruby. Ruby proceeded to completely ignore her. If they did it again, all that would happen is the same scenario because the fucking point of the arc is that Ruby is REPRESSING her feelings and refusing to open up. It's her own weakness as a character harming her. And if they DID have these moments, assuming that we make room by removing Jaune from the picture (even though people have issues even noticing Ruby's arc as Jaune directly SAYS what it is): People will just say we're wasting time by repeating things. They've done it in the past when the show tried using emphasis to hammer a point home. You cannot blame the writers as if this is solely their incompetence: you fucking said 'I am too brainrotted to withstand repetition'. You made the criticism, they responded.

And the worst part? Other, beloved shows have done this EXACT same thing. I am no joking or exaggerating. I know I've stupidly done this before in the past but: Ruby's arc about finding that she's enough for the job at hand is the same arc as Simon the Digger's in Gurren Lagann. There is a difference in that Simon never had the innocent confidence Ruby had (ignoring the difference in themes) but breaking down at the death of a close friend that represented a key aspect of themselves and giving up on life in turn, with all their friends around them supposedly doing nothing because they need to figure out the answer to their problems themselves, only for a new character to appear and provide the answer? It's the same damn thing!

'But Simon didn't commit suicide unlike Ruby!'

Simon was charging head first into fights with reckless abandon, talking about how he killed Kamina, his brother figure, with a dead lifeless look to him. He is quite blatantly on the verge of giving up on life.

Actually, the situation is WORSE in Gurren Lagann. Because the people around Ruby consisted of only three people. The people around Simon numbered over a dozen. Including one person who actually DID have the answer for Simon's issues (Yoko with Kamina's side of the story to demonstrate that Simon did have something to have faith in). It also happened over a longer period of time, since Kamina's mech is fully repaired after being decimated in the battle that got him killed. And we NEVER see anyone who isn't Nia (the new character) try to reach out and comfort Simon.

Hell, you wanna know how much worse the situation is in Gurren Lagann? Remember when Jaune gets up in Ruby's face, lashing out because of his own issues and how Ruby dug into the recent tragedy with the Paper Pleasers? And how Weiss called out Jaune for it and he apologized? Same situation happens in Gurren Lagann. A character named Kittan lashes out against Simon for endangering others' lives with his recklessness and DIRECTLY says 'If you had kept it together, Kamina would be alive right now!' One of his sisters call him out and apologizes to Simon. Does Kittan himself apologize? You know, this story aspect that many of these SAME people bitched out Volume 8 for not doing with Ozpin?

Nope. He never once apologizes for what he says. Kittan threw the death of the person Simon cared most about in his face and all he does is say 'I always had faith in you!' after Simon recovers. The same guy who tells Nia not to 'coddle' Simon. The same guy who in the previous episode was asking this kid to do spy work on Nia, the only person trying to reach out to him. This guy who was only a rival to Kamina, not a brother like Simon was. And not a single person ever, not even Gurren Lagann's haters, have ever called out Kittan for this. Or anyone else in Team Dai-Gurren since they all act as if they always had faith in Simon. But when Simon did his big turn around, the only character not stunned into silence was the same guy who actually backed that idea up earlier in the episode (a stereotypical flamboyant guy named Leon, who also happens to be the best side character.)

One of the most well beloved peaks of a character arc in anime history, with numerous essays written in honor of this arc. And, assuming the RWBY critic's standards are correct, it's actually worse than a shitty web show made by 'poor imitators'.

Do I actually think this? Fuck no. But I'm not the one holding double standards here. I know both arcs are about the protagonists needing to face their flaws alone because of their own decisions with only guidance by a new character offering a fresh perspective. I don't call Team RWBY shitty because of that and I don't say team Dai-Gurren are worse in turn. I actually understand the media in question and the point of the arc. I'm not being a contrarian asshole lobotomizing himself just to fail dunking on a web series made by two former drunk interns.

You know, Celtic and so many other people's responses to this pretty much demonstrates why I hate them.

For fucking years, they preach that you need to listen to criticism and imply that all criticism is inherently valid (otherwise they wouldn't have a problem with people calling it out) when it came to RWBY. And that the writers of the show lashing out, after having these people produce Lily Orchard-level criticisms for years upon years, is proof that they're inferior.

... But. The moment someone actually makes a mild comment against Celtic. The moment that someone gives the slightest pushback. Even as they admit that their view of FRWBY is just an opinion and the only issue is that Celtic is being arrogant in the name: Suddenly everyone proceeds to shit themselves harder than anyone from CRWBY, let alone the writers.

Like: Yeah, Celtic. When you go and say that RWBY's writing is non-functional, have openly stated you think you're a better writer than the writers of RWBY and openly state your series as 'Fixing RWBY': Yeah, you are saying that your fanfic is objectively better. Your whole 'I'm a better writer than Miles and Kerry and Eddy' statement in regards to FRWBY doesn't make sense otherwise. And the fact that you keep trying to weasel out of it shows that you KNOW that, you just don't want the standard of a professional writer applied to you. This dancing around the fact just makes you look pathetic.

FMF basically has a meltdown in the chain, repeatedly throwing insults and personal attacks despite disparaging me for doing this nearly a decade ago. So somehow, the man has lost maturity despite my emotionally stunted, hot headed, stupid autistic ass gaining at least the appearance of such. ... That's not a good feeling. And all of this while trying to proclaim 'you can't separate opinions from critique' which while somewhat true also undermines the idea that creators should take critique since you put them on the same level as, say, people blindly sucking them off.

Critter quote-tweets basically pulling a fan move by saying 'this post was for CELEBRATING FRWBY, do you get your kicks raining on people's parade?' As if the moment the RWBY fanbase would pull this card, she wouldn't immediately mock them for it. And then she goes off about the 'pedantry' of the 'fixing' part...the same girl who once went off on me for using 'cinematography' to mean how a scene is shot and conveyed.

It's just hypocrisy on top of hypocrisy on top of hypocrisy. They preach one thing but then sing something else the moment the logical conclusion of their position makes them compromise in any sense. And of course, no one is going to point out that they are doing PRECISELY what they mocked fans doing in the past. Or that these people saying that 'criticism is just an opinion!' got their following by mocking the writers for not treating said 'opinions' as if they were immutable fact. Because god forbid they have principles, even as FMF flips his shit over principles.

Although, I would have to ask: did you tell that artist it was Gen-AI?

Misogyny as policy treats women as 'less than'.

There is no law that controls a man's body. Now do the same for women.