Knight Of Balance: Redux

Texts From Superheroes

In canon Roman stuck with Cinder's side because he knows that he's by far the weakest person in their dynamic, and how Salem's faction is going to change the world. He posits himself as a "realist" when he starts ranting about the "real world" being a cold cruel place, and how Ruby should just hurry up and die "like every other huntsman in history." He's not doing this for any particular reason other than to save his own skin

He's by far the most pathetic person working with Salem's faction. Everyone else there believes in something which is why they're there. Cinder sees following Salem as the best path to the power she craves. Emerald sees Cinder as family and follows the one person who gave her any sort of comfort in life. Mercury lived an abusive life of violence and sees no other way to continue. Hazel seeks revenge against Ozpin and has been so radicalized that he can rationalize himself attacking Nora and Oscar as Oz's sins. Tyrian views Salem as his goddess that embodies destruction and wants to see her end the world. Even Watts who has the pettiest reason of all is doing this because he feels like his genius was unappreciated by Ironwood. Neo if you count her seeks revenge for Roman's death, first against Cinder, and then Ruby when she realizes Cinder's far too strong for her to handle

Roman doesn't have any of that. He's a crook that got wrapped up in something far bigger than himself, and he's too much of a coward to even flee for fear of retaliation. He just wants a comfortable spot on the "winning side." The only person working for Salem who you could consider as pathetic as Roman is Lionheart who teamed up with her to save his own skin

RWBY is a series that sides with those who can stand up to their fears. Those that don't get punished or villainized by the narrative

Roman died in the middle of his big speech to Ruby. Lionheart betrayed his kingdom out of fear of Salem and pathetically died by her hands begging for his life. Raven loses Vernal and any relationships she has with her team and family. Ironwood's paranoia consumes him leaving him to die completely alone on Atlas rather than the people of Mantle he abandoned

Roman explaining his motivation in Fixing RWBY was retained exactly the same as canon. According to Celtic it was perfect so it didn't require any changes. This creates problems with him being the next Ozpin

He doesn't change to explain him joining the main cast. There's no overcoming his fears, no desire to fix his mistakes, he joins up with RNJR and Qrow because Oz keeps pestering him to the point that he can't even sleep until he agrees. Yeah. Sure. Go ahead. Act out of character to make the canon story happen. Fuck off Celtic

Rather understandably RNJR attack him on sight in V5, but once he reveals that Oz is in him they all accept him as part of the group. Nobody meaningfully confronts Roman on the fact that he tried to kill Ruby and was their enemy for the Beacon era other than Blake, his inclusion is so forced. They just put up with him as if this is normal now. Due to Oscar being a new face and decidedly not a criminal that tried to kill Ruby or helped in the Fall of Beacon, his inclusion to the main cast without much questioning fits a hell of a lot better

Roman doesn't grow to become a more heroic person either, at least not by much. He's still a conman thief that literally steals his way into the Argus train's deluxe car, and he's overjoyed at Ruby suggesting to steal a Bullhead in V6 because she's growing up so fast. He clashes so hard with the rest of the main cast, he's only a "hero" in the sense that he's working with them now instead of Cinder. I know it's the point for him to clash given his origins as a villain in canon but fuck that point

When Dragon Ball did this with Vegeta, he came closer to the heroes' values over time. By the Cell arc he starts training just like the others, he stops taking shortcuts to power because those methods are hollow. Imagine if Vegeta was still planning to become immortal and was purely abusing his body's zenkais by the Cell games to get stronger, only now he's supposed to be with the heroes. That's Roman in FRWBY

When Oz stops yapping in his head after The Lost Fable Roman leaves at Argus because Oz shutting up is what he wanted all along, he's made that clear since V5. The only reason he rejoins the main cast is because Neo thinks sticking with them is their best shot at getting Oz out of him, something she's determined to do

Celtic kept the similar soul rule for Oz's reincarnation, which means he had to be rewritten to be in Roman

RWBY is a series that explores heroism in a lot of angles, and in this discussion Oz in canon was the classical heroic knight. He saved Salem from her father's tower for no other reason than it being the right thing to do, just like the fairy tail heroes Ruby loves. No ulterior motives, no scheming, just simple uncomplicated heroics. In FRWBY, Oz is outright stated by Jinn to be "more cunning than brave," which completely destroys the classical heroics angle and him embodying the heroes Ruby admired

Throughout FRWBY's runtime we're given hints of Oz being a much worse person than canon. Raven says that Oz is just keeping the world the way he likes it rather than actually fighting for anything to improve it. When Roman's plan to trick Lionheart with a disguise Neo makes fails, Leo gets furious when it breaks because Oz will "do anything to take any petty advantage possible"

In canon Oz kept his secrets out of necessity because of Salem's immortality being a pretty strong hope crusher. He couldn't see a way to defeat her and knew if he ever summoned the gods they would wipe out humanity, so his hand was forced to drag this out as long as he has. In FRWBY him hiding the truth comes across as trying to bury his own much worse past than canon from the world. On top fo this his mission from the gods is too unclear for anybody in or out of universe to make out, and he only kept the war with Salem going because if the gods were called he was certain she would die

Roman is antithetical to the values that RWBY champions, and due to Oz's FRWBY rewrites so is he. He's a cynical, cowardly, purely selfish, conman criminal that tried to kill the main cast on numerous occasions, who tries to position himself as the "realist" compared to Ruby. And he hasn't grown to overcome any of his flaws either. You want to know the funny thing though? They fit right in with FRWBY. A series with a more cynical tone trying so hard to be smarter and more pragmatic than canon RWBY, rewriting an asshole and villain like Roman to be part of the main cast, and makes Oz far more villainous than canon? Yeah. I can believe it. It slots in pretty naturally. Big shame this completely runs counter to canon RWBY's themes

Once again, I have not watched FRWBY. I don't say this every time because it frankly gets annoying. So everything I say about it, including this, should be taken with a grain of salt.

To be honest: I'm not a fan of Oscar. I don't hate him either, I just think he's fine for the role he plays. Personally I think Jaune was the original plan with Ozpin and that would have solved the issues with Oscar....and created whole ass new ones but that's just to flow into how I think Oscar wasn't properly established (we don't know a thing about his aunt or why he synergized with Ozpin so much outside what Ozpin said.) So it's not like I'm against the idea of changing Oscar, even if I think he should have been expanded instead of removed.

But not once did I think that Roman Torchwick, guy who cares about no one else but himself and Neo, was a good replacement.

See, it's clear RWBY does take some inspiration from Harry Potter even before Sheena's notes all but say it. Like, RWBY was always a mix between battle shounen/magical girl anime and YA coming of age books as part of its 'western/eastern anime' identity. And that comes through pretty hard with Ozpin. Ozpin takes the 'Dumbledore' role as this big famous figure who gets involved personally with the main heroes as this big inspirational figure that serves as the main good guy...who gets revealed as a lot more human later one.

Common misconception is that Dumbledore is evil or malicious when in reality, he was just another man. He had his issues, his mistakes. But he tried to do good, he was just idolized in the beginning. Same with Ozpin: you're given reasons to think he might be malicious but in truth, he was just a worn down old man who lost faith in people. he wasn't evil, he was just flawed. Except now: he's alive and around to face the conseuqences.

You wanna know what doesn't mesh with this idea? When you take the guy who's built to be like Dumbledore and shove him inside what is a lot closer to Peter Pettigrew. Roman is completely at odds with who Ozpin is supposed to be and it breaks the character. Now Ozpin, the fairy tale knight, is made out to be...I dunno, like a cautionary tale when that wasn't his point. This would have been nice in a fanfic, where the idea is to just have fun and explore different ideas from canon. But no, this is meant to be a work on par with canon and be it's supposed replacement, being more like a reboot than anything. Except it's pretty damn close to fucking Dragonball Evolution in terms of deviating from canon.

And the funny thing is: the whole 'more cunning than brave' part could have worked. The Brother Gods are stated to be close in depiction to the Greek Gods and the story between Ozma and Salem is rather close to the story of Orpheus and Eurydice. You could have made Ozma a Greek Style hero, since many of them WERE tricksters who had to use their cunning to win. Just change the style of the Lost Fable to be more Greek-like with a focus on a fatal flaw or more trying to piss off the gods and expand on Ozma's cunning. Maybe even do it so Ozma deserved to stay dead. But no, Celtic doesn't do that. His changes seem to be closer to making Ozma just....a generic pragmatic guy than a knight or a greek hero. So this core motif of RWBY, the use of fairy tales, is just...gone for no reason.

My doggo, Ezri, who rarely barks and mostly borks.

She’s a German spitz - in the same family as keeshonds and pomeranians. She might be crossed with something else as her freckled coat, non-pointy nose, and personality are not standard for her breed (they’re usually a lot more high energy and excitable - she’s super laid back and chill). She’s a bit less fluffy than breed-standard too, mostly because she’s grown out from her spring/summer trim (not usually necessary/good for her type of coat but she gets terribly itchy otherwise). It also makes her look like a puppy of a large breed:

Ezri’s best friend is Murder Cat, who is a gentle friend to humans and Ezri, but does things to mice that would make Hannibal Lecter go “Isn’t that a bit much?”

I got Murder Cat as a kitten, and she used to try to nurse on everything when she was small. Eventually, she settled on her favourite thing to nurse on, Ezri, who has never had puppies and a little confused at first but eventually went with it. She grew out of it, but they have stayed snuggly buddies ever since.

New Years here is full of fireworks outside and Ezri gets Vry Scared. I usually set her up somewhere with a snuggly spot right by me, and Murder Cat comes and does this all night: 

She goes everywhere with me in my bakfiets (cargo bike) and lets me warm my hands in her fur on cold days.

And her ears disappear if I say her name to get her attention.

ok so great thanks for coming to my TED talk about my dog, good night, drive safe

Robyn: May, it's not flickering...

Ruby: Then apparently we went through a field and found ourselves caught in a "punderstorm" which manefests metaphors LITERALLY and we appeared at a literal crossroads because the cat said "i guess we're at a crossroads"-

May: Still can't believe the cat fucking talked...

Ruby: According to Yang, her and Blake were sent to a fucking MARRIAGE PILLAR where they could only stand on it if they stopped beating around the bush and confessed already...

Fiona: Aww! Congratulations!

*yang & blake smile and wave*

Ruby: Then we made it to the village that jaune had protected for probably a decade, which was bad because he was halting their natural cycle of life & death so they tried to off themselves by drowning-

Robyn: IT'S STILL FUCKING GREEN!!!!

Ruby: Wait til i get to the part where I died!

Robyn: Wait, what?

Weiss: Yeah, she drank some magic tea, it was pretty traumatic for everyone involved...

May: Goddamn...

Fiona: Are you for real??

A lot of people give Ironwood shit for having Watts hack Penny, thinking he's stupid for trusting him to do this. For one thing he has Watts at gunpoint, if Watts does anything out of line without being extremely sneaky about it he knows he could get gunned down. But far more importantly, this action is the climax of this theme Ironwood and Penny share. Ironwood is forcing Watts to do what he wants so that he can force Penny to do what he wants, it's a deeply thematic action that ties into their character arcs. Ironwood's controlling tendencies hit such an apex that he wants to strip Penny of her ability to act on her own will entirely. He wants that vault opened yesterday and by the Brothers he'll get it NOW, methods be damned

According to Watts, he did exactly what Ironwood wanted and there's nothing to suggest he's lying. The orders Ironwood wanted? Make Penny open the vault and then "self-terminate," probably gambling on the maiden powers transferring to Winter, assuming the thought even crossed his mind. A complete violation of Penny's individuality and personhood

The fact that Ironwood decided to hack Penny also shows that even before deciding to bomb Mantle he's hit a turning point that's beyond redemption. He's the very person that signed off on the aura transfer technology, he once believed in the idea of a protector with a soul. Him deciding to hack her, to strip her of her free will to force her to obey him and then make her kill herself, is him betraying and throwing away the very ideals he once held. His paranoia, his belief that he needs to be as ruthless and monstrous as he perceives Salem to be, and most importantly his need to control everything by any means necessary now supersedes anything resembling the compassion and heart he once had

FRWBY's hack completely misses all of this. She gets hacked in the Beacon arc by one of Watts' viruses because doing so would be a "smarter, more complex" plan. Because it's the villains acting entirely on their own will, where being a control freak is far from integral to CEMNW as characters, this is so limp and weak compared to what we got in canon

The funny thing about hacking Penny in the Beacon arc is that it irreparably screwed Celtic in FRWBYV8. If he hacks Penny again due to Watts choosing to screw over Ironwood it's repetitive because we already have Penny getting hacked for similar reasons. If he has Ironwood order she get hacked for some reason then it completely misses the point of the original because Celtic threw away Penny's theme of lacking control in the Atlas arc, and Ironwood's controlling tendencies are downplayed in FRWBY compared to canon. If he doesn't hack her, it's another thing that makes Fixing RWBY increasingly unrecognizable from canon for no reason, a damning statement on a so-called fix fic

Yeah, gonna have to call you out there.

This is the scene being referenced in Volume 8, Episode 5: "Amity"

Ironwood is looking at his Scroll, with which he attempted to call Penny. The screen says that it could not complete the call. Ironwood: And Penny isn’t responding. (turning to Watts) What did you do? Watts plays with Penny’s sword as he speaks, before turning to Ironwood. Watts: Exactly what you asked. It’s possible Penny’s systems are merely rebooting. As for the tower, well, perhaps Pietro isn’t the genius you thought-- Ironwood angrily throws his Scroll at Watts, who swats it away. The Scroll, now broken, lands on the desk. Ironwood: (sighs) We’re not waiting. You’re going to find her. Ironwood turns to address Winter Schnee who has approached the desk. Ironwood: Winter. Winter stares at Penny’s sword, giving Ironwood a delayed response. Winter: Sir? Ironwood: Until Penny either responds or is standing in front of that Vault, we can not assume her status. Take the Ace Ops. I want constant updates. Winter, Marrow, Elm and Vine salute him and then begin leaving the room. Watts picks up his tool kit and then begins rolling his chair along the desk, turning off the monitors. Ironwood heads for the exit while addressing Harriet. Ironwood: Get him back to his cell.

In this scene, it's quite clear that things aren't going exactly how James wanted them to go. Yes, it is logical that Penny would need a forced reboot for the virus to take effect but remember: Watts hates James with a passion. If he can get away with it, even if it means, say, working with a witch hellbent on destroying the world: He'll do it.

Another scene in the next episode, "Midnight", implies that whatever Watts was doing was well withing Salem's plans-

Salem: We have good news. Tyrian has heard from our dear colleague Watts. Although he remains in captivity, it seems that he has worked with Ironwood to gain some control over the puppet masquerading as the Winter Maiden. I suppose he remains useful after all.

And the famous Watts/Cinder scene in Episode 10, "Ultimatum", confirms this.

Cinder: You said in your message that you have control over Penny. Watts: I said I had Penny under control, not that I could telekinetically force her to do whatever I want. Cinder turns around, looking irritated. Cinder: What? Watts: I implanted a virus in her, you dimwit. She's on a set path now. At least, she should be. As much as I hate to admit it, there seems to be some part of her capable of resisting. (Cinder clenched her fist, as Watts turns away) Regardless, it's only the matter of time before her mechanical body succumbs to the virus. She'll open the Vault, then she'll destroy herself, and our little Penny problem will be do--

So if Watts is operating for the benefit of someone, it's Salem. And while James is doing a fantastic impression of a Salem subordinate at this time, he is still a distinct faction separate from Salem right now with his own goals. (for you Skyrim players, think of it as the same relationship as between the Thalmor and Ulfric).

So no, I don't think James wanted Penny to self destruct, especially since there's no gurantee that Winter will get the power (frankly, at this point it's more like, even by Penny's own admission, that Ruby would get the power. And that'd be awful for James). That's entirely a Watts/Salem move.

Given Ironwood attempting to kill Oscar, murdering Sleet, bombing Mantle, and attempting to execute Marrow I thought making Penny kill herself was in line with his trajectory to villainy so I didn't think to check everything

A lot of people give Ironwood shit for having Watts hack Penny, thinking he's stupid for trusting him to do this. For one thing he has Watts at gunpoint, if Watts does anything out of line without being extremely sneaky about it he knows he could get gunned down. But far more importantly, this action is the climax of this theme Ironwood and Penny share. Ironwood is forcing Watts to do what he wants so that he can force Penny to do what he wants, it's a deeply thematic action that ties into their character arcs. Ironwood's controlling tendencies hit such an apex that he wants to strip Penny of her ability to act on her own will entirely. He wants that vault opened yesterday and by the Brothers he'll get it NOW, methods be damned

According to Watts, he did exactly what Ironwood wanted and there's nothing to suggest he's lying. The orders Ironwood wanted? Make Penny open the vault and then "self-terminate," probably gambling on the maiden powers transferring to Winter, assuming the thought even crossed his mind. A complete violation of Penny's individuality and personhood

The fact that Ironwood decided to hack Penny also shows that even before deciding to bomb Mantle he's hit a turning point that's beyond redemption. He's the very person that signed off on the aura transfer technology, he once believed in the idea of a protector with a soul. Him deciding to hack her, to strip her of her free will to force her to obey him and then make her kill herself, is him betraying and throwing away the very ideals he once held. His paranoia, his belief that he needs to be as ruthless and monstrous as he perceives Salem to be, and most importantly his need to control everything by any means necessary now supersedes anything resembling the compassion and heart he once had

FRWBY's hack completely misses all of this. She gets hacked in the Beacon arc by one of Watts' viruses because doing so would be a "smarter, more complex" plan. Because it's the villains acting entirely on their own will, where being a control freak is far from integral to CEMNW as characters, this is so limp and weak compared to what we got in canon

The funny thing about hacking Penny in the Beacon arc is that it irreparably screwed Celtic in FRWBYV8. If he hacks Penny again due to Watts choosing to screw over Ironwood it's repetitive because we already have Penny getting hacked for similar reasons. If he has Ironwood order she get hacked for some reason then it completely misses the point of the original because Celtic threw away Penny's theme of lacking control in the Atlas arc, and Ironwood's controlling tendencies are downplayed in FRWBY compared to canon. If he doesn't hack her, it's another thing that makes Fixing RWBY increasingly unrecognizable from canon for no reason, a damning statement on a so-called fix fic

Yeah, gonna have to call you out there.

This is the scene being referenced in Volume 8, Episode 5: "Amity"

Ironwood is looking at his Scroll, with which he attempted to call Penny. The screen says that it could not complete the call. Ironwood: And Penny isn’t responding. (turning to Watts) What did you do? Watts plays with Penny’s sword as he speaks, before turning to Ironwood. Watts: Exactly what you asked. It’s possible Penny’s systems are merely rebooting. As for the tower, well, perhaps Pietro isn’t the genius you thought-- Ironwood angrily throws his Scroll at Watts, who swats it away. The Scroll, now broken, lands on the desk. Ironwood: (sighs) We’re not waiting. You’re going to find her. Ironwood turns to address Winter Schnee who has approached the desk. Ironwood: Winter. Winter stares at Penny’s sword, giving Ironwood a delayed response. Winter: Sir? Ironwood: Until Penny either responds or is standing in front of that Vault, we can not assume her status. Take the Ace Ops. I want constant updates. Winter, Marrow, Elm and Vine salute him and then begin leaving the room. Watts picks up his tool kit and then begins rolling his chair along the desk, turning off the monitors. Ironwood heads for the exit while addressing Harriet. Ironwood: Get him back to his cell.

In this scene, it's quite clear that things aren't going exactly how James wanted them to go. Yes, it is logical that Penny would need a forced reboot for the virus to take effect but remember: Watts hates James with a passion. If he can get away with it, even if it means, say, working with a witch hellbent on destroying the world: He'll do it.

Another scene in the next episode, "Midnight", implies that whatever Watts was doing was well withing Salem's plans-

Salem: We have good news. Tyrian has heard from our dear colleague Watts. Although he remains in captivity, it seems that he has worked with Ironwood to gain some control over the puppet masquerading as the Winter Maiden. I suppose he remains useful after all.

And the famous Watts/Cinder scene in Episode 10, "Ultimatum", confirms this.

Cinder: You said in your message that you have control over Penny. Watts: I said I had Penny under control, not that I could telekinetically force her to do whatever I want. Cinder turns around, looking irritated. Cinder: What? Watts: I implanted a virus in her, you dimwit. She's on a set path now. At least, she should be. As much as I hate to admit it, there seems to be some part of her capable of resisting. (Cinder clenched her fist, as Watts turns away) Regardless, it's only the matter of time before her mechanical body succumbs to the virus. She'll open the Vault, then she'll destroy herself, and our little Penny problem will be do--

So if Watts is operating for the benefit of someone, it's Salem. And while James is doing a fantastic impression of a Salem subordinate at this time, he is still a distinct faction separate from Salem right now with his own goals. (for you Skyrim players, think of it as the same relationship as between the Thalmor and Ulfric).

So no, I don't think James wanted Penny to self destruct, especially since there's no gurantee that Winter will get the power (frankly, at this point it's more like, even by Penny's own admission, that Ruby would get the power. And that'd be awful for James). That's entirely a Watts/Salem move.

Fandom Problem #15,868:

Fixing RWBY completely butchered this aspect of Penny's character

Penny isn't allowed to out herself as a robot in the Beacon era because Ironwood believes that the world isn't ready for that information yet

In Volume 2 Ironwood forbade her from even speaking to her friends at Beacon in retaliation for her going off on her own

In Volume 3 Penny is planning to disobey Ironwood and stay at Beacon, to be with the people she cares about. Unfortunately, CEM had other plans. They rig the Vytal matches so that Pyrrha would be her opponent, and Emerald makes her hallucinate causing her to push her semblance to full power killing Penny in the process

FRWBY keeps this basically unchanged, although Penny gets hacked when fighting Pyrrha in addition to that

Come the Atlas arc and Penny has been rebuilt stronger than ever and is now the Protector of Mantle. While she takes a lot of pride in her duty as Protector, and she clearly wants to keep the people safe, due to Ironwood's lack of care for Mantle and the massive hole in its defenses she's on constant active duty. Penny is overjoyed at RWBYJNR arriving in Atlas in part because she can be with people that she cares about again. Her job as Protector of Mantle leaves her so busy she "doesn't have time for friends" according to Ironwood

FRWBY's version of the Atlas arc is where things start getting weird. While Penny is very busy in FRWBY as well, for one thing she's part of a dedicated team now, Strike Team 32 with Flynt Neon and Ciel as her partners and Clover as the leader. This entirely takes away from her being alone and "having no time for friends" that she had in canon

On top of this, Penny "being busy" is due to her actively avoiding spending time with Ruby. She's doing this out of fear of breaking their relationship because when she died at Amity her memory drive was destroyed, leaving her with almost none of her memories. In canon she basically has no choice but to avoid her old teammates and friends due to her duty as Protector of Mantle. In FRWBY, her avoiding Ruby is entirely her own choice

During the Atlas council meeting, Ironwood tries to appease the council's concerns about Penny by saying "Penny is under my complete control," something that Penny is clearly uncomfortable with and ends up being some devious foreshadowing for V8

Due to Penny not being framed for Tyrian's murders in this continuity due to the cut election plot, Penny isn't even at the Atlas council meeting. We also never get any sort of equivalent of Ironwood's statement either

While Penny becoming the Winter Maiden is for the best as we obviously don't want Cinder or Ironwood to obtain the power, she never wanted this power. On top of this her gaining the maiden powers and leaving Ironwood ends up putting a literal target the size of Atlas on her back which would begin a domino effect of choices that would end in her demise

In FRWBY Penny was Ironwood's choice for maidenhood from the start. She shows no moral problems with Fria's treatment, no doubts on if she should or even can receive the power, no feeling like she's trapped by her position into taking the power. Nothing

In Volume 8 we're even shown that Pietro can take full control of her, which he does to access the Atlas terminal. While he would obviously never do this without her consent, the fact that this feature was built into her is a worrying sign and once again plays into this theme. Penny even shows a lot of hesitancy right before this happens, she's clearly uncomfortable with it but knows this needs to happen

Throughout Volume 8 Penny repeats a sentiment similar to "I guess we all have things we do not wish to do that we must." When she gives ideas to Pietro, she gets shot down by him multiple times due to him worrying so much of her safety. Or other people will bring up the idea of Penny always being told what to do. All of these play into this theme

I won't be surprised when Celtic inevitably doesn't include anything resembling any of this material in V8. Or if he does include it it'll be out of nowhere and weaker than canon since he dropped this aspect of her character for V7

On one side of this coin we have Ironwood, a man driven by paranoia that NEEDS everything to go exactly as he wants it or it's not good enough, and he won't have it any other way. In other words he's a control freak, and these tendencies only get worse as the series goes on

He brought an army to Vale as a show of force to try intimidating the Fang and other criminals into submission. He stabbed Oz in the back so that he could be head of Amity's security, thinking that it's for the best he be in charge

By having two of the five seats in Atlas' council he has disproportionate power and it would take the entire rest of the council to vote against him to say no to his policies. In Volume 4 he outright says that if Oz just did whatever he said the Fall if Beacon wouldn't have happened which is factually false since it was the robots HE wanted to show off getting hacked that turned the tide of the Fall into a truly unwinnable situation

He started a Dust embrargo due to fearing that Salem would take the resources for her own purposes, something that she isn't even hurt by. He then closed the borders trying to keep her faction out of Atlas which doesn't even work with with how easily they all slip in

In Volume 7 he turned Mantle into a police surveillance state so that he could keep an eye out for Salem's agents and any potential dissent against Atlas. On top of this he completely isolates Fria so that he could guarantee that her maiden powers would transfer to Winter. In other words controlling the next maiden and guaranteeing that she'll be his loyal soldier

He refuses to tell anybody anything about Amity or Salem outside of his inner circle and immediate allies until the big planned announcement, fearing that telling anybody else would leak this secret of Amity before it's done. When Robyn rightfully takes back the resources meant for Mantle that he's illegally repurposing, he decides to have RWBYJNR and the Ace-Ops arrest her rather than bend even a little bit on telling her what's happening. Jacques and the Atlas council rightfully point out that he's burned away any trust he had due to his policies and need for absolute secrecy. Ironwood needs complete control over the information on Amity's existence even when his secrecy hurts him

Ironwood's treatment of Penny ties incredibly heavily into this theme, refusing to allow her choices that she'd rather make. Either "for her own good" or the good of others. More for on this in her part

When he realizes that someone told Robyn about Amity, he considers it a betrayal of loyalty. Loyalty to him and his decisions, rather than a violation of trust or people trying to navigate a messy situation that they didn't agree with his approach. When RWBY stands against his decision to leave Mantle to die, rather than try to talk things out he puts out an arrest warrant on them JNR and Qrow because how DARE they not mindlessly go along with his plan. When Oscar tries to talk him out of the plan, he decides he's had enough of people disagreeing with him and literally shoots him off of Atlas

A lot of people consider Ironwood shooting Sleet to be character assassination so Volume 8 and CRWBY are bad because of this. Clearly, these people are stupid. He just tried to kill Oscar in cold blood hours ago for the crime of trying to change his mind, he was being entirely non-hostile or confrontational. Shooting Sleet also sends a clear message to everybody in that room, reminder that Winter and the Ace-Ops are there as well. The message being to not do or say ANYTHING that goes against his decisions, he is DONE hearing any contrary opinions. He is in control of Atlas now, and if you dare do anything against that then this is what will happen to you

FRWBY mostly retained this stuff in V2-4, but tries to sanitize Ironwood of this flaw in the Atlas arc. Despite this it still ends up retaining this theme in a strange way

Ironwood in FRWBY is considering becoming the Architect of Atlas, which would make him its dictator. Something he eventually follows through on. If anything embodies being in control of something, being dictator of a nation would do it. But it's so blatant compared to canon it's kinda laughable. In episode 2 of the Atlas arc FRWBY Ironwood's spelling out that he's going to become a dictator, it's so much less subtle and has so much less dread and tension on if the heroes can convince him away from his darker impulses

He doesn't turn Mantle into a police surveillance state until after he decides to go through on becoming dictator 2/3rds through Volume 7

He gets furious at Robyn for stealing from a Schnee supply ship, but doesn't try to get her arrested unless she's caught doing something like that again. According to him his position of having two seats on the Atlas council makes his orders and authority absolute unless the entire council votes against him. This is an incredibly strange thing in regards to this theme

On one hand he retains his canon disproportionate power and control over the Atlas council. On the other, he seriously doesn't try to arrest Robyn for this? He didn't know that she and the Happy Huntresses were looting from the ship he just sent RWBY there to investigate. But after learning she did that and abused her authority, he just yells at her and gets mad?

Any and all dynamics Ironwood had for his controlling tendencies of Penny in the Atlas arc are removed entirely

First: "Thee". Might wanna fix that.

Second: Again, James is so weird in FRWBY-Atlas. Celtic is clearly trying to address the 'James was unfairly villainized!' crowd but he's also adamant that his work is better than the original that he HAS to villainize James. So he's trying to soften James up but not only is that not what those people want (at best, they want James to be equal to Team RWBY, at worst they want him to be right), the whole 'architect' thing just makes James look like he's power hungry. Because in canon, James took power out of a rash decision at the end of V7 in response to an immortal witch showing up at his doorstep, his men are exhausted. Now, Salem is a present but still distant threat and he's grabbing for power. Stop creating the problems people complain about.