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The amount of trauma Marinette is carrying is actually insane for a 14-year-old. She’s out here blaming herself for Master Fu losing his entire memory, all while being forced to carry the weight of being the Guardian. On top of that, she was basically emotionally abused by Gabriel, who did everything in his power to keep her away from Adrien.

Think about what she’s seen: she watched Nathalie die right in front of her, then watched Gabriel steal her Miraculous and die too. Then Gabriel had the nerve to burden her with his secret of being Monarch? Now she has to watch the boy she loves deal with being an orphan…all while she’s low-key blaming herself for it.

Or maybe this is just the general rhetoric, I'm not sure. But they attack the idea that Marinette is manipulated by Gabriel, that she is forced into this lie. They seem obsessed with blaming her and even insist in the same posts she doesn't make sense because she's the head writter's favorite.

THIS IS A CHILD. This is barely a "teen" as we think of them. Regardless if however you think she should make her choices this is a 14 year old girl, who canonically is still new to real friendships and relationships, who grew up the Wierd, bullied kid, who genuinely has reason to believe she is carrying the world on her shoulders. She's a superhero, she's watched people and entire timelines die. She bears responsibilities that never should have been hers to bear, she doesn't know the objectively right thing to do.

"she shouldn't keep lying" bitch LYING is the only thing she knows she has to do! Her Kwami, the guidance of Master Fu, the only objective lesson learned is "you must lie for the greater good". You must NOT expose your identity, or Chat Noir's. She's already breaking this rule with one friend and it tore her up to do that. She has several times seen herself as unworthy for these mantles but can't give them up, and lying is all she knows is required.

Should she tell Adrian? Maybe? This is such a subjective thing to whine about like she's in the wrong. Gabriel Agreste made the wish, that much she cannot deny. Admitting monarch defeated her could inspire others to overpower her and get wishes granted, and goes against this cover story which, on paper, explains what happens and makes the most people happy. Adrian wants the truth but you know what other truth he wants? LADYBUG'S IDENTITY but I bet you fuckers aren't clamoring for that truth to be told. Just because he doesn't know, doesn't mean he has to, let's not forget Marinette the child is *not* the only one who knows these things.

She does know the right thing to do. She said it herself in Sadnansi she can’t have an honest relationship with Adrian under the terms she’s put it under with the lie. This whole lie was ultimately for him and him alone to preserve some semblance of normality for him, even though it’s flatly impossible to do so. Some lies are necessary, and some are not. She made the miscalculation under emotional pressure that this lie in particular was necessary. It’s understandable, but still something she should take accountability for with her part at the very least.

I think it’s kinda undercutting the story being told to say that Adrian being kept in the dark about who his father truly was by the closest people in his life who aren’t his classmates is subjective to the point of it being an overall net benefit. It’s framed the lie as a bad thing that should end for both Adrian and Marinette’s sake, and it’s just inviting Marinette to suffer more under the lie she’s told. Any alternative superhero/publicity reasons for keeping the lie are never touched on, as they’re not the focus of the overall narrative, so I wouldn’t rely on those as proper counter arguments in discussions of why the truth shouldn’t be told.

I get what you’re trying to say by bringing up the “Adrian wants to know who Ladybug is” thing, but I can’t say those are equivalent to wanting the truth on whether his father is truly a hero, and what that means for all the horrible things Gabriel put Adrian through because of his singleminded obsession with the perfect reality he envisioned for his family. We’re not clamoring for him to know who Ladybug is because it’s not something that concerns him, but his father and how he gets to view him is his concern. It’s exactly what was attempted to be controlled by the lie. Trying to soften the blow just created another problem. He doesn’t even know his entire life is in the hands of the two rings on his fingers, and him not knowing could put him in danger if Ladybug, Argos, or Ryuko were unable to protect them FOR him.

Marinette is the character who’s emotional turmoil we’re supposed to see, examine and judge the most out of all the characters involved. That’s is an explanation, not an excuse. I don’t even hold the most issues with Marinette regarding the lie, as the narrative acknowledges many aspects of her lying being a net negative. I hold the most issues with those who are disproportionately let off the hook, like Amelie. Why not Nathalie? Narrative expectations. I kinda expect her to act dubiously, and I’m not invested enough in her or Marinette to raise a stink about it.

Now, the problem isn’t her existence. It never really was. The ultimate issue many have, perhaps even unknowingly, is that in the center of this superhero romcom is an endgame ship not with rooting for due to one side, that’s been given major focus, having a major issue they need to work through that remains unaddressed since the greater rot began to show. The way she expresses her love for Adrian is deeply unhelpful and damaging to her, and, through the lie, him as well. She’s trying to shield him from the pains of reality when that isn’t possible, and isn’t healthy.

Many express this differently than I do, and demand some level of consequences for the suffering an ongoing problems her unhealthy way of loving is causing above all else, but understand the root is the same. Not saying you should agree with everything they say or even with the premise, I just want to explain it comes from somewhere.

It certainly goes too far though, and I condemn and question those who take this fictional conflict too seriously to the point of dedicating disproportionate amounts of time and energy arguing and even harassing others about this topic.

The amount of trauma Marinette is carrying is actually insane for a 14-year-old. She’s out here blaming herself for Master Fu losing his entire memory, all while being forced to carry the weight of being the Guardian. On top of that, she was basically emotionally abused by Gabriel, who did everything in his power to keep her away from Adrien.

Think about what she’s seen: she watched Nathalie die right in front of her, then watched Gabriel steal her Miraculous and die too. Then Gabriel had the nerve to burden her with his secret of being Monarch? Now she has to watch the boy she loves deal with being an orphan…all while she’s low-key blaming herself for it.

If you’ve been someone who had seen the writing on the wall for Adrianette since season 3 with its burgeoning toxicity then this is just another line on the graph that Marinette’s way of loving Adrian is too toxic for them to be together long term without change, and this DOES just reflect badly on her.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and suffering can only excuse so much. We… Don’t see Marinette blame herself for Gabriel’s death, as she said herself it was inevitable during the finale. Let’s not add stuff where there isn’t any more substance beyond trying to make the situation as sad as possible.

these two's story is so similar but from different spectrums, this is what I imagined a meeting between these 2 would play out.

these two's story is so similar but from different spectrums, this is what I imagined a meeting between these 2 would play out.

Félix pretending to be Adrien with the dog miraculous, effectively fooling Ladybug herself while the real Adrien stands to the side with the CAT MIRACULOUS.

it’s such good irony and really shows the juxtaposition between how Adrien presents himself as Chat Noir vs as Adrien Agreste, because yeah it does seem like Adrien Agreste would be the polite and friendly temporary holder of the dog miraculous.

Ladybug/Mari completely misunderstands him, and so does Félix, even as the one deceiving Ladybug.

And it’s so heartbreaking as the audience to watch Adrien watch this scene as it unfolds, to realize in real time that maybe Nino was right. Maybe Chat Noir is annoying, and maybe the more tame version of him is the more digestible, palatable version of himself.

The identity he created for himself, free from the influence of public expectations and his father, isn’t always polite and friendly. He gets angry and jealous, he’s annoying (affectionate) and silly, reckless and outlandish. Even his character designs shows the difference, particularly his hair—meticulously styled as a civilian, messy and wild as a superhero.

In this moment you get a sense of how utterly alone he is. No one sees him for who he is, who all of him is, and he’s trapped in this dichotomy of himself that no one can break past.

And a lot of times it seems like his friends fall for the version of him that’s easy to love rather than the version of him that’s more authentic.

It would've made chloe doubling down on her bad habits far more intresting if the show acknowledged her nd Adrian's relationship in a less shallow way then "she has a crush on him, and he somewhat cares for her"

Think about it, he's the only person she really likes without there being a clear power dynamic. The only person she doesn't see as some peon that should know it's place or an idealized figure she puts up on a pedestal, and so she gets super possessive once she's not his only friend, now he has other people.

He doesn't need her anymore.

Then there's the obvious Adrien side where she's the only person that treats him not like prop. But an actual human being, so when he finds out she's been treating everyone else – the only other people who treat as a person, and let him into there community – like disposable trash, he has a hard time translating this with his original view of her, sure she can be rude sometimes but she means well! Doesn't help how clingy she's gotten, it's like chloe's a whole different person.

Then when the whole miracle queen debacle happens, Adrien goes to talk to her -comfort, debate, scold whatever it doesn't matter here- but chloe doesn't listen, so angry about the events, getting tricked by hawkmoth and abandoned by ladybug and just blows up at him, telling him how just used her and to never pretend to be her friend again. Because that must be why right? Everytime someone acted like they believed in her -hawkmoth calling her his queen, ladybug letting her use the bee miraculous- they just used her, and when she stopped being useful to them she got thrown away like a doll, he was so desperate for friends he lowed himself down to her, and when he got people he actually liked he didn't need her anymore.

But that's not what happened.

1)Adrien explains how Chloe was there for him when his mother died, to Marinette. He does this so that the class doesn't throw a party for her leaving, because it makes him sad.

2)He blackmails her to behave better by threatening to break off their friendship. She agrees.

3)He blackmails her to behave better --immediately on the heels of Gabriel buying out the movie she highjacked. Gabriel did this specifically to try to akumatize her, and only KNEW to do it because Marinette sought him out. Adrien's actions here help exacerbate her emotional state, playing into Hawkmoth's hands. Good job by both our heroes. 🤣-- One more he does this threatening to break off their friendship. She calls him Adri-nobody and runs off in tears.

4)He shows up at her room and tries to get her to apologize to Marinette, blackmailing her once more with their friendship(They he already used before???) She blows him off, and he storms out indignantly.

It would've made chloe doubling down on her bad habits far more intresting if the show acknowledged her nd Adrian's relationship in a less shallow way then "she has a crush on him, and he somewhat cares for her"

Think about it, he's the only person she really likes without there being a clear power dynamic. The only person she doesn't see as some peon that should know it's place or an idealized figure she puts up on a pedestal, and so she gets super possessive once she's not his only friend, now he has other people.

He doesn't need her anymore.

Then there's the obvious Adrien side where she's the only person that treats him not like prop. But an actual human being, so when he finds out she's been treating everyone else – the only other people who treat as a person, and let him into there community – like disposable trash, he has a hard time translating this with his original view of her, sure she can be rude sometimes but she means well! Doesn't help how clingy she's gotten, it's like chloe's a whole different person.

Then when the whole miracle queen debacle happens, Adrien goes to talk to her -comfort, debate, scold whatever it doesn't matter here- but chloe doesn't listen, so angry about the events, getting tricked by hawkmoth and abandoned by ladybug and just blows up at him, telling him how just used her and to never pretend to be her friend again. Because that must be why right? Everytime someone acted like they believed in her -hawkmoth calling her his queen, ladybug letting her use the bee miraculous- they just used her, and when she stopped being useful to them she got thrown away like a doll, he was so desperate for friends he lowed himself down to her, and when he got people he actually liked he didn't need her anymore.

But that's not what happened.

An interesting twist. I had an idea for a fic (but never wrote) along those lines. Chloe was a shut in in the hotel(kept there by her controlling father), almost no one knew who she was or even THAT she was. She was called the 'Ghost of the Grand Paris'. When Zoe is sent to Paris after losing a bully turf war in New York, she is jealous that Chloe is 'loved'(as Zoé sees it) by Andre. She steals Chloe's name and the story of being the 'Ghost of Grand Paris', sick until now that she's gotten better and she sets about taking over this new school. Thereby getting to roughly where you had things.

An interesting twist. I had an idea for a fic (but never wrote) along those lines. Chloe was a shut in in the hotel(kept there by her controlling father), almost no one knew who she was or even THAT she was. She was called the 'Ghost of the Grand Paris'. When Zoe is sent to Paris after losing a bully turf war in New York, she is jealous that Chloe is 'loved'(as Zoé sees it) by Andre. She steals Chloe's name and the story of being the 'Ghost of Grand Paris', sick until now that she's gotten better and she sets about taking over this new school. Thereby getting to roughly where you had things.

Now I'm just thinking about how that scenario would affect Cat Noir, because his mom had just gone missing without a trace not even a full year ago, and now his only friend since childhood is dead. He'd be so messed up by this, and it is so interesting to think about.