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i’ve never been less interested in the “correct” adaptation of a book than in this moment. the entire rest of the season could be comprised of hour-long episodes of alicent bouncing on rhaenyra’s strap and i’d be like and what of it
Pleased to report that after a day of this i am not longer craving caper brine and my mouth is not dry as usual. There's some good suggestions in the notes too that I want to try.
-ancient roman posca: water, red or white wine vinegar, honey, salt, herbs (coriander, mint, thyme)
-switchel: water, ginger, vinegar, sweetener, lemon, salt
I’m tired of team black stans act like acknowledging that bk!Alicent had political ambitions somehow means she can’t also be a victim of the system she lived in. No shit, the show didn’t suddenly make her a victim she always was one.
Book Alicent was surrounded by rumors from a very young age. There are stories that she slept with Viserys before her marriage to him, rumors that Daemon took her virginity, even claims that she was involved with or molested by the elderly King Jaehaerys. Whether those rumors are true is almost beside the point. The fact that they existed at all shows how quickly a teenage girl’s reputation could become public property and it’s damaging and sexualization. Adults were openly speculating about her sexuality for political purposes when she was still around fifteen.
Otto positioned Alicent to do excessive work for Jaehaerys I, acting as his caretaker. At just 15yo she was bathing an old man and fetching his food. Then the text itself notes that people at court suspected Otto had larger ambitions and had brought Alicent to court with the intention of advancing the family’s position "there were those who murmured that the Hand had risen above himself, that he had brought his daughter to court with this in mind." The book practically winks at the reader and says that people noticed what Otto was doing.
That doesn’t mean Alicent had zero agency and It doesn’t mean she never wanted power. But having ambitions does not magically erase abuse. A teenager can want power & status and still be used by her father and a woman can participate in politics and still be sexualized by the adults around her.
If her wanting to be a queen doesn't make her a victim, then Rhaenyra isn't a victim either.
What makes Alicent not loving Viserys and wanting power “shallow”? Seriously. People act like a woman not marrying for love automatically makes her selfish or inferior but that’s a very modern way of looking at her society. Love matches weren’t the norm. Even GRRM has talked about how noble marriages were primarily political arrangements not about love.
Rhaenyra herself didn’t marry Laenor because she was madly in love with him. She married him because it was politically necessary and because Viserys essentially threatened to disinherit her if she refused. So she accepted to marry him because she wanted to be a queen.
Alicent understood the world she lived in and tried to make the best of the opportunities available to her. In a society where women are expected to be silent, obedient tools for the ambitions of men, she found ways to gain influence and exercise power herself.
That’s not shallowness that’s ambition. And it’s funny because people praise ambition in male characters all the time. Men can want power, and they’re called strategic or interesting. A woman wants those same things and she’s “shallow” or “power-hungry.”
Alicent actively participated in politics. She helped lead the Green Council. She built relationships and influence at court. After Viserys died, she remained one of the most politically important figures in the realm. She didn’t just inherit power through a husband. She made herself politically relevant in her own right.
And the idea that she only cared about power is such a misogynistic take. We know that she genuinely loved Jaehaerys and took care of him. We know that she spent time with her children and grandchildren. We know she was close to Helaena and she suffered enormously after Blood and Cheese. We know the deaths of her children devastated her. We know that by the end of the war, grief has practically consumed her. That doesn’t sound like someone who only cared about power it sounds like a woman who cared about both power and family.
And honestly, that’s what makes her feel realistic. Most people aren’t driven by only one thing. Human beings are messy. They can be ambitious and loving and they can want power and still genuinely care about their children.
Alicent’s tragedy isn’t that she loved power half the nobles in Westeros love power her tragedy is that she lived in a system where power, family, survival, and duty became so tangled together that she could no longer separate them.
You don’t have to think she was a good person to acknowledge that. But reducing her to a shallow woman who simply wanted a crown ignores how much of her story is about agency, family, grief, and trying to carve out influence in a world designed to deny women influence in the first place.
I want to go on record and say I really love when fanfic writers self-promote. First of all, my dash is so chaotic that chances are I actually didn’t see your fic the first time you posted about it. If you reblog it a few times at different times of day (or over multiple days!) I’m much more likely to see it! Second of all, even if I did see your post the first time (or even if I’ve seen it multiple times!) if I was busy or not in the mood for that particular kind of fic at the moment, there’s a good chance I haven’t actually read it yet. So the more times you reblog it the more times you are reminding me that hey, I actually did want to read that at some point. It helps me! And I appreciate it! So please, keep self promoting and self-reblogging!
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A Study on Why Rhaenyra Could Never Be a Feminist: The Rotten Core of Patriarchal Generational Abuse & Queerness Representation
I have always wanted to explore why Rhaenyra Targaryen could never truly be a feminist. This isn't just because George R.R. Martin chose not to write her that way, but from a purely logical perspective, the constraints of the medieval era she was born into are not all that different from the systemic struggles we still face today.
By the absolute laws of feudal autocracy, Rhaenyra Targaryen was trapped in a systemic paradox where attempting to be a modern feminist and dismantle the patriarchal society would have guaranteed her immediate destruction. The political power of every highborn lord in Westeros rested entirely on male-preference primogeniture: if Rhaenyra had tried to overturn this system to grant equal inheritance rights to all women, she would have directly threatened the birthright of almost every first-born son in the Seven Kingdoms.
Expecting her to champion a social revolution while fighting a civil war completely misinterprets medieval politics, as her remaining noble allies would have instantly abandoned her to unite with the Greens, viewing her not just as an illegitimate ruler, but as an existential threat to their entire dynastic wealth and power. Attempting to force such a systemic upheaval would have ignited a much greater war, a total societal collapse far exceeding a mere war of inheritance or the tragic deaths of her children. Such an all-consuming conflict would likely have fractured Westeros right back into its chaotic, bloody pre-Targaryen era of rival kingdoms, leaving not a single soul alive to even record what occurred in the historical annals.
To secure the Iron Throne, Rhaenyra was forced to play by the rules of the very system that oppressed her, assuring traditional lords that her ascension would change absolutely nothing about their daily lives or successions. This perfectly mirrors the real-world medieval history of The Anarchy, where Empress Matilda could only fight for her personal birthright, knowing that attempting to upend 12th-century feudalism would cause an even greater crisis and destroy her only path to victory. Ultimately, Rhaenyra had to prove she could be just as unyielding, traditional, and stable as any male monarch, demonstrating the tragic reality of feudalism: she had to strictly enforce the patriarchal rules against other women just to protect her own survival at the top of the pyramid.
Rhaenyra’s inability to dismantle the patriarchy is deeply tied to her own internal battle with her identity, where her complex queerness, fluid sexuality, and profound gender envy were actively weaponized against her. She did not seek to reform the system for all women because her desires were intensely localized: she craved the unique freedoms, bodily autonomy, and raw institutional power reserved exclusively for men, viewing herself as an exception rather than a revolutionary. However, the genuine blame for her tragic entrapment within the system rests squarely with King Viserys I, whose passive negligence, stacking of the Small Council with Green loyalists, and brutal sacrifice of Queen Aemma on the childbed created the institutional rot that enabled the war. Otto Hightower, a master political strategist, expertly recognized these vulnerabilities early on, most likely discerning Rhaenyra’s deep, unspoken feelings for his daughter, Alicent. By explicitly orchestrating Alicent’s marriage to King Viserys, Otto didn't just secure a Hightower bloodline on the throne he executed a cruel, pre-meditated psychological agenda alongside the elite lords of Westeros, who chose a catastrophic civil war over allowing a woman to set a dangerous inheritance precedent for their own first-born sons.
By alienating Rhaenyra from her intimate queer bonds and trapping her in isolation, Otto and the elite ruling class ensured that her deep-seated envy and trauma would dictate her future actions, forcing her to aggressively play by the patriarchy's rules just to survive the very trap they all built. For decades, a distraught Rhaenyra viewed this as a cold, whole-hearted betrayal, never realizing that her former companion's outward hostility was actually born out of a deeply repressed, agonizing love and a severe case of sexual jealousy over the freedom Rhaenyra possessed to move between male and female partners.
In conclusion, the hilarious irony of Otto's grand scheme remains that it completely backfired on him: in his desperate rush to weaponize these emotional bonds, he utterly failed to realize his own daughter was a lesbian who was profoundly in love with Rhaenyra all along. While Alicent's relationship with Criston Cole was merely a mechanical symptom of stress and trauma, Rhaenyra was the only person she ever genuinely loved for who she was. Alicent spent her entire life "still stuck at the restaurant" psychically frozen in the grief of their broken childhood bond while the rest of the world moved on. When she ultimately offers to sacrifice her own son's life at Dragonstone just to escape, she exposes the true, heartbreaking tragedy of the Dance of the Dragons: the entire war only happens because a repressed woman was forced by the patriarchy to birth kings, turning Otto's masterfully calculated political trap into a deeply personal, farcical nightmare that doomed both of their houses.
5. It’s hard to be offended when white people jokes involve bland food/tourist dads in socks and sandals/white girls in yoga pants obsessed with pumpkin spice/suburban PTA moms and other harmless and mostly true stereotypes while jokes about POC involve them being called thugs/criminals/slurs/uneducated/illegal immigrants.
6. They’re usually really fucking funny and don’t perpetuate stereotypes that will ever affect me economically, politically, or cause me any true harm, let alone create risks that “justify” my murder and/or death
“Love Languages” are just common couples therapy techniques mangled and repackaged by an unqualified homophobe. Relationships generally need all 5 love languages to be fulfilled, which is to say, everybody needs to communicate with, spend time with, and do things for their partners, and that’s got nothing to do with any special way you communicate affection.
MBTI has been proven completely ineffective at predicting anyone’s success at a particular job, and half the people who take it twice will get different results. Reputable psychologists do not recognize it, and the company that owns the rights to it uses it to scam people. People don’t adhere to strict binaries in basically anything. Very few people are going to be exclusively introverted or extroverted. It’s just astrology repackaged as pseudoscience. Shockingly enough, you can’t boil the complexity of the human experience down to a dozen Types of Guy.
The concept of IQ is flawed from the start— “intelligence” is an abstract concept that encompasses many different skills, from social intelligence to emotional intelligence to the very narrow kind of problem solving intelligence IQ tests generally measure for. It cannot predict how fast you learn, how much you know, or how logical and well read you are. It mostly measures how good you are at solving puzzles. Coincidentally, it’s also a pretty good predictor of income and education level, take a guess why. Most people’s IQ will change throughout their lives, because it’s inconsistent bullshit we’ve only held onto this long because we’re still kinda hoping we can breed the ubermensch. IQ tests and the way they attempt to categorize people are explicitly eugenicist and racist.
BMI was developed by a man known as the grandfather of eugenics, who first of all was a mathematician, not a doctor, and second never intended the formula to be used to categorize individuals. It’s intended to give a rough estimate of obesity in populations, and it’s not even good at that. It hangs around because of fatphobia and insurance companies who want it as an excuse to charge fat people more.
The study which determined people’s prefrontal cortex was still developing at 25… stopped measuring at 25. Evidence suggests your brain probably never stops developing. Stop infantilizing grown adults. This is a branch off from the larger mess of misinformation surrounding fMRIs.
If you haven’t put together what all these things have in common yet, here’s the moral of the story: STOP TRYING TO CATEGORIZE PEOPLE. STOP TRYING TO PUT PEOPLE IN A GODDAMN BIOLOGICAL HIERARCHY. EUGENICS IS BAD, AND WILL ALWAYS BE BAD, NO MATTER WHO’S DOING IT.
The Price of Gilded Cages: The Jezebelification of Katherine Howard, Rhaenyra Targaryen, and Alicent Hightower.
The parallel between Queen Katherine Howard, Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen, and Queen Alicent Hightower is a stark study in how patriarchal societies transform young victims of systemic exploitation into narrative villains. Across history and fiction, these figures are subjected to a profound "jezebelification" or character flattening that reduces their complex realities into a singular, moralizing trope: the manipulative woman who engineered her own ruin. By stripping away historical bias and narrative propaganda, it becomes clear that Katherine, Rhaenyra, and Alicent are fundamentally cut from the same cloth. They are young girls trapped in gilded cages, surrounded by immense political power but possessed of zero personal autonomy, forced to navigate a world where their bodies are public property and their survival depends on men who view them only as objects of desire or political currency.
The foundation of their shared tragedy lies in the sickening reality of childhood sexual abuse, masked as education, affection, or duty by the trusted adult men in their lives. In Tudor England, an impoverished, neglected Katherine Howard was only around twelve or thirteen years old when her music tutor, Henry Manox, used his position of authority to systematically groom and molest her. Manox frequented the young women's dormitory, repeatedly groping Katherine in her bed and engaging in illicit sexual touching a disgusting violation that Katherine later testified she only submitted to because she mistakenly believed he would leave her alone afterward. This stomach-turning dynamic is mirrored with horrific precision in how the men of Westeros view and treat Rhaenyra Targaryen. Rhaenyra’s body is treated with the exact same casual, nasty objectification: her own uncle, Daemon Targaryen, views her childhood innocence not as something to protect, but as a political canvas to defile. When Daemon takes her to a King's Landing pleasure house, strips her down, and exposes her to a hyper-sexualized underbelly, he is enacting the exact same grotesque betrayal as Manox using a position of absolute trust and familial authority to fundamentally compromise a child's bodily autonomy for personal gratification.
Furthermore, Katherine, Rhaenyra, and Alicent existed in high places of power where they were treated as supreme royal prizes, yet they possessed less actual agency than the lowest-ranking men at court. Katherine was used as a literal biological token by her uncle, the Duke of Norfolk, who thrust her into the path of a volatile, aging King Henry VIII to secure political leverage for the Catholic faction: she had no legal or social mechanism to refuse the supreme monarch of England. Similarly, though Rhaenyra was named Heir to the Iron Throne, her status did not grant her freedom: it merely turned her into the ultimate political commodity, paraded before the lords of the realm like a prize mare. Alicent’s situation was no different: she was traded to the crown to secure Hightower blood on the throne, forced into a marriage defined by profound power imbalances where she had to pick and tear at her cuticles until they bled just to cope with the suffocating, silent anxiety of her reality.
This illusion of power was further complicated by a crushing double standard regarding reproductive duty and chastity, where a young woman's worth was entirely reduced to the state of her body. Henry VIII famously objectified Katherine as his "rose without a thorn," demanding she embody a pristine, submissive fantasy designed to revive his fading youth. When Rhaenyra and Alicent reached marriageable age, the entire political stability of the Seven Kingdoms was similarly pinned to their virtues, but in completely inverted ways. Rhaenyra was expected to remain pure while the men around her operated with total sexual impunity. Alicent, conversely, was forced to become the epitome of the quiet, submissive, and pious maiden sacrificing her youth to silently disassociate and stare blankly at the ceiling with hollow eyes while fulfilling her "sacred obligation" to breed male heirs for an aging, rotting sovereign. Whether they sought pleasure or merely submitted to duty, their bodies were never truly their own: they belonged to the state and to the lineage.
The true horror of their interconnected narratives is exposed in the way men disgustingy use them for sex, hiding behind a mask of moral righteousness while enacting the ultimate "Jezebel" trap. This is embodied entirely by Ser Criston Cole, who hypocritically exploits both Rhaenyra and Alicent for his own desires while destroying their safety. Criston willingly takes Rhaenyra's maidenhood, but the moment she refuses to abandon her crown to run away and soothe his wounded pride, he turns on her with bitter, lifelong vitriol, painting her as a reckless whore. Years later, he climbs into Alicent's bed under the guise of being her loyal, pious protector. While he actively uses Alicent for physical solace, his dereliction of duty allows assassins to infiltrate the Red Keep and murder her grandson yet it is Alicent who bears the crushing weight of shame and narrative vilification. Like Katherine Howard, whose survival tactics with Thomas Culpeper were twisted into treasonous manipulation, both show women are systematically used by men who prioritize their own urges, only for the court and the realm to rewrite these young women into calculating, sexual predators who brought about their own ruin.
The historical and narrative erasure of their trauma is where the process of vilification becomes complete, shifting the blame of structural abuse entirely onto the victims. For centuries, traditional history books and popular media flattened Katherine Howard into a frivolous, boy-crazy nymphomaniac who essentially engineered her own execution through sheer stupidity, rather than a child victim of a predatory court. This exact distortion plays out in modern fandom discourse surrounding House of the Dragon. Viewers frequently misread Rhaenyra’s early arcs, either celebrating her grooming by Daemon as an empowering "girlboss" romance or vilifying her as a reckless hypocrite. Simultaneously, the audience often flattens Alicent into a venomous, bitter stepmother, completely erasing her quiet, self-harming nervous tics, her deep disassociation, and the overwhelming systemic pressure that stripped both Westerosi women of their agency.
Ultimately, all three women were crushed by the very systems that elevated them, their lives cut short or permanently marred by a legacy of state-sanctioned violence and character assassination. Katherine’s story ended on the executioner’s block at just eighteen years old, her name dragged through the mud as a warning to unchaste women everywhere. Rhaenyra and Alicent’s trajectories mirror this descent into ruin: the weaponization of their youth and their bodies eventually fractured their families, leading to a devastating civil war that consumed them both.
The patriarchy could not tolerate a woman who existed outside its rigid, impossible definitions of womanhood, and so it destroyed them all rewriting their histories to ensure they were remembered not as victims of a brutal political meat-grinder, but as the architects of their own tragedy. To look at Katherine Howard, young Rhaenyra Targaryen, and young Alicent Hightower is to see the exact same reflection across three different mirrors one forged in historical reality and the others in high fantasy. They are bound by the shared tragedy of being young women whose youth was stolen by predatory men, whose power was an illusion, and whose survival instincts were rewritten by history as inherent vice. By recognizing how all three figures are systematically flattened, we expose the persistent cultural habit of blaming young women for the predatory environments that consume them. They are one and the same because they represent the ultimate, tragic truth: in a patriarchal system, a young woman will be condemned whether she fights the rules, breaks the rules, or follows them to the letter.
Sources and Historical References:
Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII. (Primary state papers detailing the 1541 examinations of Katherine Howard, Henry Manox, and Francis Dereham regarding the Dowager Duchess of Norfolk's household).
Martin, George R.R. - Condal, Ryan. House of the Dragon (HBO). (The primary visual text detailing the childhood, silent disassociation, and socio-political weaponization of Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen and Queen Alicent Hightower).
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These are a compilation of tweets I found and saved on my phone as reminders for when I feel like I need to feel validated or reminded that I am a worthy person no matter what and I thought you guys might need those too (part 5)
Faust is back for the 5th time! If you want to use the flag of your choice as an avatar, they're under the cut. They're free to use as long as it's for personal use only.
Alicent Hightower pushing for her sons isn’t selfish.
Alicent pushing for her sons isn’t selfish act it’s pretty consistent with how inheritance works. Most mothers “widows” in that world would absolutely prioritize their children’s claims, especially in a system where a rival claimant is also a potential threat to your kids’ lives. Disinheriting a son in a male-preference system isn’t a small thing, it’s a massive slight with real consequences for status and safety. People downplay that way too much.
A) It’s not unusual for women in history to go against their husbands wishes for their sons.
What even counts as “selfish” in a world where survival and family protection are all entangled with political violence and succession crisis?
William the conqueror publicly mocked his eldest son Robert by calling him “Curthose” (“short-stockings”) He favored his younger children. William didn’t trust him, didn’t respect him, and never gave him real authority. And his mother Matilda secretly funded her son’s rebellion against her husband William, risking her marriage, status, and safety. By defying the most powerful man in Western Europe to protect her child, William publicly accused her of using his money to “arm and succour and strengthen [the rebels] to my grave peril.”
Isabella of France fled to France. she returned with an army and an alliance with her lover, Roger Mortimer. She successfully deposed her husband king Edward II and had him imprisoned (and likely murdered) and helped place her son, Edward III, on the throne.
Eleanor of Aquitaine went against her husband, Henry II, and backed her sons' revolt against him. The rebellion failed, and Henry imprisoned Eleanor for 15 years. However, upon Henry II's death, her son Richard I took the crown, freed her, and she wielded power acting as regent during his crusades. When Richard died, she successfully campaigned for her younger son, John, to succeed him as King.
Margaret Beaufort spent years maneuvering politically to secure her son’s claim. was deeply threatened by the Yorkist kings. She went against them, turning to political intrigue and plotting rebellions against Richard III. She successfully united support for her son, Henry Tudor.
God forbid GRRM writes a historically accurate woman who fights for her son’s position instead of quietly obeying and dying tragically after fulfilling her reproductive function. Queens, queen mothers, regents, noblewomen defending their children’s inheritance is not impossible feminist anomaly invented for fantasy drama. history is FULL of women scheming, ruling, rebelling, or outright going against husbands, councils, and political expectations for their children’s survival or claims but somehow a woman acting politically for her son in a succession crisis becomes “evil ambition” while passive suffering gets instantly romanticized as the more acceptable form of femininity.
If every major house do the same thing advancing their own bloodline and protecting heirs then calling one woman “selfish” for doing it is less about ethics and more about selectively feminism by punishing a female ambition inside a system everyone else is already playing.
The point of the story: This tale isn’t about “one woman the main character being denied power.” No it’s the tale of the princess (rhaenyra) and the queen (Alicent), the Blacks and the Greens. You can see from the title of the story. I can also flip the argument and reduce the whole tale to a second wife who risked her life in childbirth and was denied power through her children, simply bc she was treated as an exception. But It isn’t just a ONE woman denied. It’s TWO women the princess and the queen. It’s not simply “ambitious greedy entitled woman vs. wronged woman.”One woman is treated as an exception to male preference, the other is treated as an exception to the usual power afforded a queen mother. Exceptions are unstable. That’s why the story isn’t just about personal bitterness. It’s about a political order that tried to hold two contradictory ideas at once: A daughter can inherit like a son. A queen consort has no independent claim through her children if it contradicts the king’s will.
B) Competition for power happens with other women too.
We will see Stark widows women push for their sons’ inheritance. Widows and noble mothers act as political protectors for their children, bc their own status is tied directly to whether their sons inherit. If the line of succession is unclear or threatened, it makes sense that different Stark women would try to secure advantages for their own children behind the scenes.
“The She-Wolves” story and “The Princess & the Queen” being included in an anthology called Dangerous Women already frames them in a specific way.
The anthology introduction emphasizes women with actual political influence and disruptive power inside their societies. Not passive little NPC wives standing prettily in the background. These women matter bc they can alter succession and redirect history itself.
And notice how women become “dangerous” the second they wield power in ways that aren’t purely decorative. Men scheming, conquering, manipulating succession and starting wars, is treated as standard political behavior. But women doing the exact same thing become threatening, manipulative, hysterical, evil, etc. The double standard is baked right into the language.
So…
when Stark widows or Alicent are described as “dangerous,” it’s more about women acting as players in succession struggles and women using limited tools available to them to protect their children’s claims.
They’re not “dangerous” bc they’re uniquely power-hungry. They’re “dangerous” bc they work in spaces usually dominated by MEN, they assert claims (their sons’ & their own position) and they refuse to stay passive when inheritance is at stake. The Stark widows fighting behind the scenes or Alicent another widow pushing for her sons isn’t unusual it’s what happens when women in a restrictive system finally have leverage.
These women aren’t just reacting emotionally they’re engaging in the same logic as everyone else. The only difference is that when women do it, it gets written as something more threatening or “dangerous”, bc it disrupts expectations of what they’re “supposed” to be. There’s a gendered double standard in how agency is interpreted.
And since house like the Starks that has multiple marriages across generations. If Beron Stark is dying, it makes sense that different Stark women would be active behind the scenes, each trying to protect their own children’s position in the line of succession. Women like Serena & Sansa being left out of clear inheritance paths would logically contribute to those underlying disputes, since their children’s status would depend on how that succession gets decided.
Widows in Asoiaf are politically weaker overall, bc their authority is tied to their husband’s status or their sons’ inheritance. If their sons don’t inherit, that weakness can increase even more:
they lose the main source of their long-term influence (their line continuing power)
their position at court becomes more dependent on others’ favor
rival branches of the family may push them aside
they can be politically sidelined if their faction loses the succession struggle
A widow’s stability is closely connected to whether her children secure inheritance. If they don’t, her influence usually declines, bc she no longer has a direct stake being recognized in the power structure.
I am not talking about widows in the sense of whether they are “deserving” of power in a moral or governmental evaluation of what rulers should do for the public. I am talking specifically about widows as political actors inside succession systems, and what kinds of conditions determine whether a highborn widow can actually secure her position or her children’s inheritance without being challenged.
Check this post about marriage contracts.
If Viserys had made it absolutely clear before marrying Alicent that Rhaenyra would not be replaced as heir, then the political situation around that marriage could have been very different. Otto’s decision to push Alicent forward is tied directly to uncertainty about succession, not just personal ambition. It’s common for men without sons to remarry specifically to produce a male heir, and that expectation shapes how other lords interpret a king’s choices. That’s why Corlys offering Laena to Viserys makes sense politically it’s another attempt to secure influence through a potential male line and strengthen alliances at the same time.
Fire&Blood:
The rough prince:
And it wasn’t just Otto and Alicent others in the realm also questioned it, pointing back to the ruling of the Great Council in 101. Viserys’ response, though, is essentially to shut the conversation down instead of clearly reinforcing or revising that precedent in a way everyone can accept. So instead of resolving the uncertainty, he leaves it hanging.
It was EXPECTED and NORMAL for noble women to want their children to inherit.
CATELYN STARK
Catelyn is highly sensitive to anything that threatens her children’s inheritance that’s a big part of why she resented Jon, since she saw him as a potential rival to her children. Within that same framework, it’s very hard to imagine she’d be fine with a stepdaughter inheriting over her own son. Her own blood!
“Precedent,” she said, her voice bitter. “Yes, Aegon the Fourth legitimized all his bastards on his deathbed. And look at all the misery, war, and death that followed. You may trust Jon now. But will you trust his sons? Or their sons after them? The Blackfyre pretenders kept coming back for five generations, until Barristan the Bold finally killed the last of them. If you make Jon legitimate, you can never unmake it. If he marries and has children, any sons you have by Jeyne will never be safe.”
“He is your son, not mine. I will not have him.” — Catelyn Stark, A Game of Thrones.
DAENERYS TARGARYEN
Daenerys herself was already imagining her son as king while Viserys was still alive. There doesn't seem to be much doubt there, and she sounds pretty certain that her son will sit on the iron throne.
“Yet they were bound to Drogo for life and death, so Daenerys had no choice but to accept them. And sometimes she found herself wishing her father had been protected by such men. In the songs, the white knights of the Kingsguard were ever noble, valiant, and true, and yet King Aerys had been murdered by one of them, the handsome boy they now called the Kingslayer, and a second, Ser Barristan the Bold, had gone over to the Usurper. She wondered if all men were as false in the Seven Kingdoms. When her son sat the Iron Throne, she would see that he had bloodriders of his own to protect him against treachery in his Kingsguard.”
VISENYA AND RHAENYS
Even GRRM did confirmed that Visenya and Rhaenys competed for Aegon influence, and authority. There was tension and rivalry in how they related to him and to their positions in the new order.
MARGERY AND OLENNA
Margaery and Olenna absolutely wouldn’t just accept their line being sidelined. Olenna is ruthless, she’s willing to have Joffrey killed when she sees him as an immediate existential problem. Y’all really think Olenna would just sit there and accept her granddaughter Margaery’s son getting passed over for Rhaenyra, the stepdaughter?
RHAENYRA & DRIFTMARK
Check this POST!
Rhaenyra herself acts violently when her children’s position is threatened, which shows she works under the same logic as Alicent. When her line is at risk, she doesn’t respond with restraint or principle she prioritizes her children’s survival above all else.
This isn’t Alicent being uniquely selfish. It’s a system where almost any mother in her position would push the same way. But I know a lot of team black stans being historically illiterate and it’s not shocking when parts of fandom discourse treat a quasi medieval succession crisis like a modern election cycle with HR policies and peaceful transitions of power. You can absolutely support Rhaenyra’s claim and still recognize that queens, queen mothers, noblewomen, and regents historically fought for their sons, feared rival claimants, and did not just politely sit down waiting to see what happened to their children. That’s not “evil woman behavior,” that’s fucking historically accurate woman, the problem is less “which team” and more when people flatten medieval / early modern succession logic into modern discourse and then act shocked that characters behave according to the brutal rules of their world.
And I blame hotd they made the story about “who is morally right in a modern sense” instead of “how does succession politics actually function in this quasi medieval system”
ao3 is not changing anything by the way! some people just want them to change for some reason. my guess is that these people just don't understand how the site works and refuse to actually learn how it works, so they blame the site because it's easier for them that way.
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(for the shaunahat scene analysis masterpost, click here)
Alright, we’ve reached the first “actual” shaunahat scene. The one where the ship officially sailed. And oh boy, there is a lot to say about this scene, so bear with me.
The scene starts with Shauna going to her baby’s grave and discovering that someone left flowers on it. For context, let’s remember that Shauna recently buried her baby there, away from the others so she could mourn him in peace. We know Shauna feels uncomfortable with how the group turned her dead child into an object of worship, preventing her from properly grieving him. The situation was so unbearable for her that she had to dig up her dead baby to rebury him somewhere secret so the others couldn’t have access to his body anymore. So understand, from her perspective, discovering that someone found her dead baby’s grave is her worst nightmare and something she desperately wanted to prevent. This just confirms her worst fear that she will never be allowed to grieve him in peace. Someone putting flowers on her baby’s grave isn’t a sweet gesture for her, it’s a violation, akin to a profanation. It would be an understatement to say this alone put Shauna in the worst possible mood imaginable, and it’s very understandable, given her past trauma and everything she went through.
Now, we also have to acknowledge what it’s like from Melissa’s perspective. I think it’s fair to assume she did not realize that her action came off that way for Shauna. To her, leaving flowers on her baby’s grave was a sweet gesture. There were no ill intentions (at least, consciously). And I think one of the reasons why she decided to do that is because of how Shauna reacted to Akilah’s “gift” (the makeshift crown thingy) earlier in the episode. This was a gift that highlighted Shauna’s motherhood, and given her child died, also a painful reminder of his death. It put the emphasis on her as the mother of this child they are now “worshipping” instead of allowing Shauna to mourn her loss, essentially turning her grief into a spectacle. Melissa might not have fully understood why this “gift” upset Shauna, but she isn’t clueless either. She can probably tell that Shauna is not comfortable with how they treat her baby, and it shouldn’t be hard for her to figure out it’s because they view him as an idol of worship instead of the tragedy he truly is: a dead baby. So it makes sense that Melissa would have wanted to do something that acknowledges that fact. After taking a stand by stepping on Akilah’s gift in front of Shauna, it also makes sense that Melissa would have wanted to give Shauna her own gift instead, something she assumed Shauna would have rather wanted: something acknowledging her grief. And in normal circumstances, leaving flowers on someone’s grave is the appropriate way to pay respect to them. But, unfortunately for her, those are not “normal” circumstances, resulting in her action not being appropriate.
However, despite Melissa’s intention being primarily good, we also have to acknowledge that it wasn’t entirely selfless. Yes, her sympathy for Shauna and her loss is sincere. She does feel bad for her and did this because she thought it would make Shauna feel better. But we also have to realize that, in order for Melissa to be able to leave flowers there, it’s because she was stalking Shauna. She followed her there without Shauna’s knowledge, and discovered something she was not supposed to know. Then used that discovery to her advantage, without Shauna’s permission. And let’s not forget, Melissa didn’t simply leave flowers: she stayed and hid. She wanted to see Shauna’s reaction. So not only did she stalk Shauna, there is something a little bit voyeuristic about what she did. And this does fit with how Jenna Burgess interpreted this scene. She described Melissa’s initial intentions as “pure” and “empathetic”, but accurately points out that the truly empathetic action would have been to leave the flowers and walk away, just to let Shauna know there’s someone who is acknowledging her grief. Melissa decided to stay and watch for a reaction, which Jenna describes as being “audacious”, a “power move" and “self-serving”, which I do agree with. By observing how Shauna reacts to her “gift”, she can more easily learn what works or doesn’t work with Shauna and prepare her next move. It’s important to keep in mind that Melissa didn’t plan that she’d get caught, so even if she wasn’t being purely selfless in her intentions, she wasn’t planning to take advantage of the situation to manipulate Shauna in any way. Everything that happens after getting caught was purely her improvising and trying to turn an unexpected confrontation to her own advantage, while being truthful about her feelings towards Shauna.
Back to Shauna. After discovering the flowers, she panicked because she realized someone managed to find where her baby was buried. Then, she heard someone moving and realized she was being observed. Her first instinct when that happened was to pull out her knife. This shows how frightened she truly was by the situation, and perhaps even expecting to be in danger. Shauna is in a state of panic and in “defense mode”, basically.
But when she sees no one “attacking” her, while still being aware that she isn’t alone, she demands whoever is hiding to come out. And I think it’s likely she could have attacked whoever showed up on the spot if it happened to be someone she wasn’t particularly fond of. For example, if it was Mari or Misty, Shauna might not have let them explain themselves and simply go on the offensive. But, the person who came out from the bushes was Melissa, someone she is mostly indifferent to and with whom she had a relatively “positive” interaction not so long ago. And I do think it could have contributed to Shauna not jumping on her right away, meaning if they didn’t have this interaction in ep1, perhaps Shauna would not have let Melissa attempt to explain herself and just attacked her instead. This would add an extra layer of importance to their first actual interaction this season, by affecting the way this scene ended up playing out.
Melissa could have attempted to run when Shauna caught her. Maybe she considered doing it. But I think she decided not to because if Shauna saw her run away and recognized her, it would not have been a good look for her. That wasn’t a risk she would take given she wants to get on Shauna’s good side. So she did show herself, which again, as Jenna mentioned, demonstrates that she is audacious. But also, Melissa didn’t realize how much her action had negatively affected Shauna’s mind. Once again, she viewed what she did as a nice gesture, while Shauna viewed it as a violation. So I think ultimately, Melissa didn’t run away because she wasn’t scared of Shauna, at least not enough to feel in immediate danger. Or rather, she underestimated Shauna and failed to realize how pissed off she made her. And unfortunately for her, one passively good interaction between them wasn’t enough to minimize Shauna’s anger.
Then, Melissa tries to justify her presence to Shauna. As I said earlier, I don’t think she was scared of Shauna, but she was definitely nervous. Just like anyone would be if they got caught spying, especially by their crush. And we can tell she was nervous by the way she’s rambling. If I’m understanding correctly what Melissa is saying, she is claiming she didn’t follow Shauna “this morning” (so earlier that day), she just couldn’t sleep because she was scared and then she saw Shauna going somewhere and decided to “keep and eye” on her because of how things are “crazy out there” (I assume this is about Mari’s disappearance and the weird screams they heard last night).
So when we saw Shauna go re-bury her kid earlier this episode, this is when Melissa followed her and found out about the grave. So, despite what Melissa claims… yes, she did “follow” Shauna. Maybe she is truthful about saying it was to keep an eye on her out of concern for her due to the recent events, but it’s also very possible she simply has the habit of following Shauna around, like a stalker. We saw Shauna bury her baby at the beginning of the episode, which seems to have been the morning, meaning Melissa was probably spying on her. Then we saw that quick scene between them after the group realized Mari had gone missing and Shauna angrily passed by Gen and Melissa. Given the chronology of events, it means Melissa already knew at that time where Shauna had re-buried her child. And seeing how on edge Shauna looked, might have thought that putting flowers on his grave would “help”. How wrong was she, huh.
While Melissa is rambling, Shauna is staring at her. I doubt she actually cares about whatever justification Melissa is giving. Shauna already made up her mind. They might have had one relatively “positive” interaction the other day, Melissa is still mostly a stranger to Shauna. The fact she only noticed Melissa having a “personality” recently is proof they were never close before. So even if Shauna didn’t attack Melissa right away, she is still unlikely to give her any benefit of the doubt. I wouldn’t be surprised if Shauna did not listen at all to what Melissa said and was too focused instead on her anger about having someone intrude on a place that is sacred to her. Melissa is essentially nothing more than an intruder in her mind, and Shauna had already decided that she was here to “take” her baby. Hence why she didn’t reply to anything Melissa said and instead told her that no one has a right to her baby, emphasizing how he is HER baby. So this really reinforced the crux of what Shauna solely has on her mind at the moment: her baby. And how someone, once again, from her perspective, is appropriating him. And nothing Melissa could have said would have changed her mind. This is the first thing she thought when she found the flowers, and it shaped how she continues to perceive the situation.
Melissa does seem taken aback by Shauna’s reaction, because to her, this was never about taking away her baby. To her, the flowers were something respectful. So I think part of her is confused about why Shauna is telling her this. And we can tell she doesn’t fully get it because she instantly “agrees” with Shauna, as if she just wants to get on her good side, and quickly move on to another topic. She can tell Shauna is on edge, and that trying to justify her presence here didn’t help.
So she moves tactic and instead, first by apologizing to her, for everything that happened to her out here. Actually acknowledging what Shauna had lost and expressing sympathy for her. Which I do believe is sincere. I think a big part of how Melissa’s infatuation with Shauna began was because she felt sympathy for her. Then, she decides to start complimenting Shauna. Telling her how resilient she is and how important it is out there (in the wilderness). Which that too, I believe Melissa is sincere. It comes off as awkward because she’s nervous, and I do think she is scared now. Not scared of Shauna, but scared of leaving a bad impression on Shauna. Once again, Melissa didn’t plan on getting caught, so she had no speech or monologue pre-planned. She didn’t rehearse any of this. I’m mentioning that because this does seem like something she does (as we will see in the next scene), so this really is just her trying to express how she feels on the spot and sounding clumsy.
And just like before, Shauna is simply staring at Melissa as she is basically glazing her. I don’t think Shauna is fully registering what Melissa is saying. She’s still very on edge and in the mindset that someone got too close to her baby. She doesn’t know Melissa very well, so it makes sense she wouldn’t trust her anyway. Shauna feels like the group as a whole doesn’t appreciate her (she was bitter they picked Nat as their queen and not her, despite what she did for them), so she does have reasons to be doubtful when someone she isn’t even close to is suddenly praising her. There’s probably no one who complimented her in a long time so this could also be confusing for her. Especially coming from someone who is essentially no different to a stranger for her. In other words, Shauna is not in the right state of mind to be hearing these kinds of praises, especially since she probably does not feel resilient, given how broken she feels, and neither does she think it’d be “important” out there given how unappreciated she thinks she is by the others.
Then, Melissa told Shauna that the others are “scared of her”, and declared that she is not. That’s a very interesting thing to say because of how wildly different Shauna interpreted that statement. From Melissa’s point of view, what she said was positive. She is letting Shauna know that she isn’t like the others, that she is on her “side”. She is presenting herself as an ally for Shauna. And also, by claiming she is not afraid of her, Melissa is telling Shauna she is someone she can rely on and can “match her freak”, so to speak. When asked about if Melissa was actually not scared of Shauna, Jenna said “yes and no”. So I do think part of Melissa was scared of Shauna, and she claimed otherwise to make herself look good in Shauna’s eyes.
But that’s not how Shauna viewed it. To her, Melissa basically telling her “I’m not scared of you” was a taunt. She was already on edge and not receptive to Melissa’s praises, so hearing that was essentially the straw that broke the camel’s back. It was as if Shauna had been waiting for Melissa to “slip up” so she could finally snap at her and have an excuse to attack her. Shauna was like a bomb just waiting for the right trigger to explode. And as soon as she heard Melissa claim she wasn’t scared of her, this was it. This was a threat to her, and Shauna had to show Melissa she should be scared of her. All that anger she had accumulated burst, and she reacted by pushing Melissa against the tree and putting her knife to her throat. She threatened to kill Melissa if she told anyone about her baby’s grave- because once again, to Shauna, that’s her primary concern and all she had on her mind. Keeping her baby to herself.
Now, Melissa is actually scared. Which yeah, makes sense. She did not expect Shauna to react this way because as I said before, what she said was a positive thing in her mind. She did look confident that it would win Shauna over but instead, she is getting aggressively threatened with a knife under her throat. And not only did Melissa look scared, it seemed like she was panicking, we can hear her hyperventilate as Shauna is telling her that she will “gut her”. I don’t think she can process why Shauna is that angry at her. All she can think of is how she might be killed and had to think fast to find a way out of this situation. And turns out, her way was to kiss Shauna. She was terrified and in a moment of desperation, she kissed her. Yes, she does have a crush on Shauna, and it’s part of why she kissed her. But also, because she had nothing to lose. If Shauna was potentially going to kill her, then that was her last chance to show her how she felt about her. And also, according to Jenna, this was an act of self-preservation. This was Melissa’s only way left to let Shauna know that she meant no harm, and that she actually liked her. Because Shauna was clearly not listening to words.
The first kiss didn’t last long, and it looked mostly like a peck on the lips. It caught Shauna off guard and it looked like it instantly softened her. She doesn’t look angry anymore, just surprised. And for a moment, it looked like Melissa was worried about her reaction. Which is understandable when we take into consideration that it is the 90s, where homosexuality was still a taboo. It is possible that Melissa suspected Shauna wasn’t straight due to her relationship with Jackie, but it’s not like she knew for a fact Shauna was into girls. So she did take a huge risk by kissing her, especially when Shauna was holding her at knife point. When Jenna called Melissa "audacious", she wasn’t kidding. This was a bold move. And thankfully for her, Shauna “reciprocated” by kissing her back. And this time, it was more than a peck. They were full-on making out against that tree, while Shauna kept the knife to Melissa’s throat. And they both seemed into it.
Now, why did Shauna kiss Melissa back? Obviously, it’s not because she reciprocates her feelings. Shauna barely knows her. But the kiss was impactful enough to soften her and get her to calm down. And I think it’s because it awakened something in Shauna that she was never able to fully admit to herself, which is her sexuality. More specifically, her attraction to girls. It is obvious that Shauna had feelings for Jackie that she was never able to admit. And part of Shauna would have wanted to explore those, but unfortunately couldn’t because Jackie died. So Melissa is giving her an opportunity to explore those, in a way. And also, after everything she went through, this is also a way to unwind. The way Shauna is kissing Melissa does show a certain level of desperation, like she’s been craving that kind of physical contact for a long time. The kiss is hungry, passionate and even feral. Shauna is even seemingly "dry humping" Melissa as they make out. She also kept the knife the whole time, as if she still wanted to keep that power over Melissa and feel in control. For Shauna, the kiss isn’t about Melissa at all, but about herself and her desire.
I think it’s important to point out that this kiss, despite the fact Melissa did initiate it first, is very much in the category of “dubious consent”. Not only did Melissa kiss Shauna first without her consent, it was done under duress. As said before, this was partially done out of self-preservation. Melissa’s life was being threatened and she was scared of being killed. Even if she did have a crush on Shauna, even if she kissed Shauna first, she most likely wouldn’t have if it wasn’t for Shauna threatening her life. Then, when Shauna chose to kiss her back, she kept the knife under her throat the entire time. It made it impossible for Melissa to refuse if didn’t want to. And even if it did seem like Melissa was okay with it, it still shows that Shauna didn’t really take Melissa’s consent into consideration. If anything, she might have considered that Melissa kissing her first was her giving her consent, ignoring the fact Melissa did so because she was scared of dying. So the point remains, the kiss was of dubious consent, somewhat on both sides but mostly Shauna since she was the one in control in this situation and had power over Melissa.
Something interesting Jenna mentioned in an interview is that Melissa only “succeeded” in getting with Shauna because of how broken Shauna was. She stated that she played Melissa as if she didn’t have any game. It only worked because Shauna was so broken by everything that happened to her, so she essentially had nothing to lose and all to gain from this. This relationship started due to their circumstances, and it would probably not have happened if it wasn’t for the crash.
Another interesting detail is how this scene is juxtaposed with another one happening in the adult timeline. Adult Shauna has been taunted with a telephone left in the bathroom of the restaurant she was in with Jeff, seemingly for her, given the phone had “Queen of Hearts” as a ringtone and the wilderness as background.
Shauna left the phone at the restaurant and is now calling to see if someone came to pick it up. She learned that a woman did and she asked what she looked like. This is shown at the same time as Shauna and Melissa kissing. A not-so-subtle clue that the person who is seemingly stalking Shauna in the adult timeline is none other than Melissa. To this day, I am still confused about how so many people were in denial about adult Melissa when it was this obvious from the start. Oh well.
Interestingly, some of the dialogues between the two timelines mirror each other, too. Even in the way the two scenes are cut, it's almost as if the dialogues are meant to resemble each other- and it was probably on purpose.
This is the first major shaunahat scene and it does foreshadow the dynamic for their relationship. A big part of this interaction is the miscommunication. Both Shauna and Melissa had completely different perspectives of the situation and they both critically misunderstood each other, and it led to a violent confrontation. It did up “well” this time, showing that under the right circumstances these two can somewhat work, but it also shows how easy it is for their relationship to turn violent. They both aren’t on the same wavelength, they do not have the same desire and expectations. And in the end, this miscommunication is what caused the downfall of their relationship later on. This scene also illustrated the power imbalance, showing how Shauna wants to remain in control and hold power over Melissa, something that is at the center of their relationship, but also contributes to its downfall when Melissa no longer lets Shauna have this control over her.
In conclusion, this scene established not only the foundation of shaunahat, but also foreshadowed its downfall, when they ultimately break up, in similar circumstances as how they got together in the first place.
(If you are interested in more of my commentary on this ship, feel free to check out my extensive shaunahat analysis.)
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