Wolf King XVI

Hi! Something I’ve always wanted to ask you is how Ni actually works in Ni-dom, because I feel like in fiction it is not accurately represented. Have you ever watched NCIS? If so, take Gibbs (who should be an INFJ): in the vast majority of the cases, he has a gut feeling on who’s the culprit and he’s almost never wrong. The thing is that he can’t explain why he knows if someone is guilty or innocent, he just knows. But in my case (if I’m not mistyped, I’m an INTJ), Ni works differently and I’ve come up with two examples to show it. The first one happened a few days ago: I received a text from a friend of mine, se just wanted to say “hi” and ask me how I was. As soon as I read it, even though it was written in a very normal way, I knew it wasn’t her who had written the text, so I replied “give her the phone back”. In a few minutes, I got another text from her, and this time it was actually her, wondering how I had understood that she wasn’t the one writing. She then explained that she was out with some friends and while she was in the toilet her friends had taken her phone and were writing to various people just to see if someone would reply. You could say that it’s the same way Gibbs’ Ni works, but as soon as I knew that it wasn’t her writing, I could also explain why: it wasn’t her usual style of writing, to put it in a simple way. The other example is a bit more complicated, but bear with me: you may remember that I write in a Harry Potter-themed role-playing game. My main character is the vice-director of a spy-agency, similar to Marvel’s Shield. In this storyline that I invented, three characters, including mine, had founded this secret agency following the events of WWI, in which wizards were impeded to take part by Archer Evermond to avoid being discovered by the Muggles, so that they could avoid similar conflicts while maintaining the secrecy around the Wizarding World. One of these three characters, though, fell in love with a Dark witch during a mission and betrayed the Agency, forcing my character to intervene alongside with another Agent. This second Agent would die by the hands of the traitor and, as a revenge, my character would not only erase any kind of memory of Agency in both the traitor and the Dark Witch, but also the memories of one another, essentially erasing their love from their mind. A friend of mine, who too takes part in this rpg, read that the Director, knowing all of this, got mad with my character and couldn’t understand why. Until that moment, I had just decided that the Director would get angry, but I hadn’t really stopped to consider why, but as soon as she asked me, I knew that it was because the more memories you erase and the more you risk leaving traces of your spell, meaning that someone could discovered those erased memories and investigate, thus uncovering the secret Agency. As you can see, in both cases my Ni gave me the answer to a “problem”, but as soon as I had the answer, I also had the proofs to back it up, contrary to Gibbs’ seemingly magical power to just know, without any single proof or explanation! So, after this huge post, for which I am very sorry, my question is: is the fictional Ni shown in a wrong way or am I mistaking for Ni something that is not Ni at all in the two examples I’ve explained?

(LOL at your gif.)

I’ve checked with two of my Ni-dom friends, who agree with this Ni-dom description: “Ni is like a background processor that can compute and process information without needing to consciously work through each part of the thought.”

My INTJ friend added: “The important bit here is that Ni is largely an unconscious (or subconscious at the very least) function, and a Ni-dom will mostly NOT be able to explain how they arrived at a certain conclusion.”

INFJ said she highly identified with this: “ Ni tends to store information in a spread out way with all the pieces of data having connections of various strengths to multiple additional pieces of data. This creates a dense web-like mass of information that is too large to be viewed in detail as a whole, but can be zoomed in on to show intricate clusters and threads of thoughts. This network of data rests slightly outside of the conscious mind, giving Ni a dreamlike quality that is equally likely to be experienced in images and impressions as it is to produce concrete facts. Because the focus of the Ni perception is constantly scanning the whole but also frequently zooming in on various thoughts and feelings and changing angles on a subject, Ni dominant people tend to experience their inner world as constantly fluctuating.” [source]

Your first example looks like Si (”my past experience with this person tells me it isn’t their style of writing”); other than that, I don’t know what functions you are using.

Introvert - A hermit who feels like people drain their energy like watching a movie does their phone’s battery

Extrovert - Someone who can hear the word party from another state and would never think of reading a book.  Ever.

Intuitive - I don’t see the world the way everyone else does.  I’m so deep and abstract that most people don’t even understand what I’m saying.  I mean, people think cereal is just cereal, but I know what it really means!

Sensor - All I know is what is right in front of my face!  I can’t think about anything complex and meaningful without getting a headache.  I don’t understand anything I can’t see, so air is just a myth to me!  Can’t…breathe…not…intuitive enough!!!

Thinker - Cold, hard truth and logic.  I don’t care how many people cry, and I don’t think I’ve ever even smiled.  What a pointless thing to do.

Feeler - Warm, fuzzy feelings, hugs, rainbows, and kindness!  I couldn’t be logical if my life depended on it, honest!

Judger - I’ll make so many lists I can’t see over them, and if you even THINK about changing the plan, I might have a meltdown and faint!

SUBMITTED by whitegirlinasia

I read your post about identifying Ni vs Si and I feel uniquely positioned to describe the differences. I am an INTJ and my ENTIRE FAMILY are high Si users. Sadly, not a single one is an ESTJ. But my mother is an ESFJ and my father is an ISFJ. All my aunts and uncles are SJ as are my grandparents. And I have got to tell you, I was gob smacked that anyone could get the two mixed up.

Let me tell you the only phrase you need to know to identify an Si user. “This is what people do.” When I didn’t want to go to university? “This is what people do!” was thrown at me. When I decided to live in Asia for a decade instead of showing interest in building a conventional  career and a family ASAP? (It was a dream since childhood to live in Asia and learn the language. Mission accomplished) “This is what people do.” Whenever I suggest not following the narrative proscribed by society and family tradition? “This is what people do. You have to!”

The other phrase you need to learn is “You don’t know until you try it.” (Yes, I do.) And also (because most of them are SFJ) “You shouldn’t write people off so easily, and give them a chance.” (No, I shouldn’t).

This philosophy actually stunted my intuition a bit. After escaping the family dynamic, I had to learn that I shouldn’t brush off my intuitive hits. I would have avoided several bad relationships and bad events if I hadn’t “just given this person a chance” Had I just listened to myself I would have steered clear. It was actually MBTI that helped fix this because it gave me the pathway to drop the programming I received in childhood. I felt vindicated. I wasn’t crazy that I could see stuff other can’t, because I literally can.

My family is also very much caught up in the details of how things “look”. My mother visited me in Asia recently, and we joint skyped my ESFJ grandmother while she was staying in my apartment after spending several days in Kyoto. The entire conversation they had was about what people wore here. How the buildings look. The coolest things Mom saw. It was all about the aesthetic, in WAY more detail than I cared for. I was so bored. And then they both asked each other about the weather. Seriously. They talked about the WEATHER.

Had I been only talking with one of them, I would have told them about the shrine we went to for the fox gods. How the shrine is there to pray for money and fortune. How, every year the organized crime gangs donate obscene amounts of money to gain favor with the gods. The symbolism of how a god / kami is enshrined there. And the sacred bamboo forest you can walk through. I would have told them about the meaning of it. When I talk about this stuff their eyes glaze over.

I don’t know how you can identify me exactly, but I can tell you how I drive my family crazy. If this drives you crazy, too, you are probably an Si user. Everyone is always frustrated when I question conventional wisdom. I once told my grandmother I wasn’t sure it was worth it to go to university if you don’t get enough scholarships because of the way the student debt system is rigged. This ended in an exasperated “This is what people do! You go to school, get an education and get a good job! You know maybe if you didn’t think so much you’d be happier. I mean, you are just thinking all the time!” I’m really not. I just keep up with the news. How on earth can you live effectively in the world if you don’t have the information to make informed choices?

Sometimes family will tell me about some new, interesting idea they read about. Recently a family member told me they read that because of climate change coastal cities may lose land experience extreme storms. They told me I might want to consider that when I move home next year. That was basically the topic of my college admissions essay 14 years prior. They seemed a little disappointed that I already knew.

They are also frustrated by my inferior Se. I’m always getting lost or falling up the stairs. When learning to drive my last attempt ended in “It’s like you don’t even know where the car is on the road.” The only one who could handle teaching me is my ISTJ grandfather. His Te would tell me exactly what to do and what to anticipate on the next portion on the road. I had no feel for driving but I can follow exact instruction until Se gets what the sensation of good driving feels like. What a correct turn feels like. What an appropriate turn feels like.

It also drives them crazy how much time I spend spacing out. I spend some of my down time in some sort of a trance. I stare off into the distance and sort through my thoughts. It’s the time I get my planning done. I think about all the things I need to do, or something I’m learning about. I call it “playing with my brain”. I need it or I become disordered. To them it’s laziness. To me it’s my natural state.

But I think the biggest telltale sign is how we handle complexity. They can handle the complex as it related to the physical and immediate. My grandfather can sit there and tell you about every part of his fancy camera, how to use it to create different effects and what every single function on photoshop does. My Mother can tell me about every single family dynamic playing out. Both things put me to sleep. But philosophical or political theory frustrates them. (I studied political science and am a total news nut). If they get something wrong in their understanding about an upcoming vote on a bill, I gently try to explain and it always ends in “Eh, that’s too complicated.” I can’t learn about camera parts, and they can’t understand the school to prison pipeline.

They fear veering away from “the rules” will leave them open to harm. So trying anything too new, or cutting off someone who doesn’t serve a purpose or is actually a hindrance to them is scary. The rules protect you. I fear the confines of conventional wisdom, and that when I make a big leap I research everything beforehand in an effort to not get blindsided by unforeseen consequences. Group think stunts you. Information frees you.

Ni and Si are both looking at the same forest. The Si is on the ground, looking at each leaf, the animals and the bark on each tree. They can tell you the names of all the trees and birds, the cloud formations above and that random snail on a rock.

Ni is in a helicopter, and can see all the different paths to navigate the forest. They can see which parts are expanding and growing, which parts are experiencing a forest fire and which parts are being cut down.

When the Ni and Si reunite the Ni will tell the Si that the forest is on fire. But they won’t be believed because the Si didn’t see it. But when it finally gets to their part of the forest, they will be able to tell you how hot it is based on the color of the fire and how fast it will spread depending on how much rain we’ve had recently.

That’s my long ramble about the two functions in action. Now you know far too much about me, but I hope it was helpful to anyone having trouble seeing the difference. And just to qualify, I love and care about my family. We are just wildly different humans.

ISTJ Si-Fi loop: An ISTJ in a Si-Fi loop will replay past events, usually traumatic ones, and relive these past experiences in their head and then wallow in their negative feelings. They compare new or present situations to negative memories and assume that every situation is going to go badly, interpreting how the situation is going to impact them personally. They have difficulty putting their ideas into actual action, lose their ability to reason logically in a situation.

ISFJ Si-Ti loop: An ISFJ in a Si-Ti loop will replay past events, usually traumatic ones, and relive these past experiences in their head.They will also try to come to a logical reasoning for why these things happened, and overanalyze the situation. However, they would not be able to come to a conclusion and would instead become stuck in this loop of recalling memories and analyzing them. In addition, they lose some of their ability to interact with the outer world in a healthy way, and instead withdraw into themselves and neglecting to talk over their feelings with others in their life.

INFJ Ni-Ti loop: An INFJ in an Ni-Ti loop attempts to suppress their emotional side, shutting themselves off from others and becoming unable to share their feelings with those around them. They will become extremely withdrawn and private, attempting to become analytical and logical without employing their feeling side. They will attempt to view everything in a logical light while shutting off their tendency to consider things in the light of the feelings and values of those around them. In addition, they will repress their feelings.

INTJ Ni-Fi loop: An INTJ in an Ni-Fi loop overanalyzes everything in their life and wallows in their negative feelings. They overthink their emotions and become very focused on what they want in life. They project how every situation is going to go, usually assuming the worst, and how the situation is going to impact them personally. They have difficulty putting their ideas into actual action, lose their ability to reason logically in a situation, become overwhelmed by their inner experience of emotions, and stew in their negative feelings. They obsessively think about their own emotions, values, and beliefs towards morality and life, but in a very negative way that often lands them in a depressive state.

ISTP Ti-Ni loop: An ISTP in a Ti-Ni loop overanalyze situations, getting stuck in their head and find themselves unable to act on any of their beliefs. They may become convinced that they are completely right and know best in any situation, also becoming overly anxious in situations and mentally pick them apart in an attempt to understand them. They will also become overly worried about the long term implications of an action or the underlying meaning beyond what they see on the surface, and have trouble acting in the moment.

ISFP Fi-Ni loop: An ISFP in a Fi-Ni loop overanalyze situations, getting stuck in their head and find themselves unable to act on any of their beliefs. They will wallow in their feelings and overanalyze situations, also becoming overly anxious in situations. They will also become overly worried about the long term implications of an action and have trouble acting in the moment, worrying about whatever future emotional repercussions will result from actions. They will read into things past what is on the surface and come to negative conclusions which result in negative emotions, which they then stew in.

INFP Fi-Si loop: An INFP in a Fi-Si loop will get stuck on negative past events and begin to overplay them, reliving their emotions in the situations. They will stew in these emotions and become unable to look to the future. They will become withdrawn, and unexcited about the prospective of new ideas and possibilities, instead fearing that these negative situations will replay themselves.

INTP Ti-Si loop: An INTP in a Ti-Si loop will get stuck on negative past events and begin to overplay them, analyzing why things happened the way they did. In addition, they can use their sense of logic to come up with negative beliefs about the world and use their Si to provide past experiences that reinforce these ideas. They will become withdrawn, and unexcited about the prospective of new ideas and possibilities.

ESTP Se-Fe loop: An ESTP in an Se-Fe loop is going to be very impulsive, reckless, and want to do adventurous things for the sake of getting external validation from those around them. They will become very concerned with what others think about them and want to spend all of their energy impressing those around them. They almost cater to the desires of those around them and lose their ability to think independently and logically.

ESFP Se-Te loop: An ESFP in an Se-Te loop becomes overly concerned with “doing” all of the time, unable to let themselves stop to take a break. They become forceful, aggressive, insistent upon taking action whether or not it hurts those around them or fulfills their inner sense of duty. They dismiss their necessary stage of stopping to reflect on whether their choices are in line with their values, instead shutting off this voice and focusing on outward manifestations of logic and planning.

ENFP Ne-Te loop: An ENFP in an Ne-Te loop comes up with a million possibilities and tries to put these all into action without taking time to consider their personal values or opinions on the matter. They become very externally driven, wanting external validation and recognition. They also become outwardly hardened, trying to compensate for their usual lighthearted and sensitive demeanor.

ENTP Ne-Fe loop: An ENTP in an Ne-Fe loop would imagine a bunch of negative future scenarios and lose sight of reality as they fail to apply logic to their unrealistic beliefs. In addition, they become extremely sensitive to others’ opinions of them and are extremely concerned with being accepted by those around them and feeling disliked.

ESTJ Te-Ne loop: An ESTJ in an Ne-Te loop comes up with a million possibilities and tries to put these all into action without taking time to consider what is realistic, or consider structures or past lessons that would guide them. They become very externally driven, wanting external validation and recognition. They will become unable to settle and focus on a single plan, instead becoming stressed out as they are pulled in a million different directions.

ESFJ Fe-Ne loop: An ESFJ in an Ne-Fe loop will go to any lengths to please those around them, without being able to consider what is realistic or within their own principles, or consider structures or past lessons that would guide them. They will become stressed out as they are pulled in a million different directions, attempting to please everyone else.

ENFJ Fe-Se loop: An ENFJ in an Fe-Se loop seeks external validation and pours themselves into others without being able to consider their personal feelings or take time to consider themselves. They become particularly sensitive to others’ view of them and their image, obsessing over ways to bolster this image through material goods and sensory experiences. They over-socialize and look to fulfill their short term impulses and desires.