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"Don't you think if we got rid of like the concept of gender then trans ppl wouldnt exist or like dysphoria wouldn't exist and no one would have to take hormones for the rest of their lives"

Like thats not identical to

But I think these concepts are kind of inseperable. For example, clothing is gendered M or F based on the body shapes it's tailored to, with certain sex characteristics in mind (ex. pronounced mammary glands or lack thereof, androgenic/gynogenic fat distribution etc). So the idea that "dissolving/abolishing gender" (which is already a concept that's so varried/vague, and is usually just a dog whistle for abolition of "gender identity" used by terfs & GCs as a trojan horse to strip the trannies of their rights) would also dissolve all dysphoria amongst trans people is moot.

This happens commonly with the "you don't need dysphoria to be trans" crowd who, upon being pressed about what they think dysphoria is, usually have an extremely narrow definition that entails all-consuming, extreme loathing which has been externally identifiable since childhood.

And when you talk to that crowd for long enough, you often find they do have some form of dysphoria, usually they're just not considering it dysphoria themselves.

The seperation of all of these phenomena as entirely different concept is where some of this conflict occurs. Sex and gender aren't really inseperable. "Gender" at this point is such a loaded word which people use to mean all kinds of things, which results in several different concepts becoming commonly conflated (gender roles, gender norms, gender identity, gender stereotypes etc.)

In the same way, you cannot dissolve one without, in some aspect, dissolving them all.

People like myself with primarily sex characteristic dysphoria will still exist, and trans people without it may then find that once all the glitz and glamour of highly disconnected (and by disconnected I mean traits that are so intensely socially constructed that thier absurdity is obvious) gendered ideas are gone (e.g. names, pronouns, clothing, haircuts, the blue and pink of it all), they may be stripped naked with nothing but their bodies left to focus on.

I'm glad the tone i struck was accessible to you. I'm going to continue to be very generous right now: this response is transmisogyny. one of the kinds of privilege that TME people experience is getting to be judged as individuals whereas TMA people are always judged collectively. TMA people should not have to be as precise, nonjudgmental, and even in tone as i was in this thread. i chose to put in the effort to explain things in these terms, but i did so because when TMA people like me aren't, we get taken with the worst possible faith.

if a cis woman wrote a post like mine about the ways in which men leverage misogyny against her, it would be obviously misogynistic for someone to reply "oh thank goodness. i never really got feminism because they're always just so bitchy about men". this would be the case regardless of who said it or what their proximity to misogyny is. the same is true here: i made a long post with very precisely chosen language, and this reply contrasts me against all those other, apparently uncouth trans women who don't haven't decency to be nice about our oppression. (if you know trans women like that, please send them my way. they sound based.).

TMA people do not owe any deference to TME people's feelings when talking about our oppression. y'all can get away with shit on the regular, usually against us, that is far crueler than incivility. TMA people shouldn't have to make posts that are hundreds of carefully chosen words long with step-by-step logical constructions from first principles and real-world illustrations whose relevance is spelled out on exacting detail. this was a high effort post and WE DON'T OWE THAT TO ANYONE. we shouldn't have to do that every time we want to talk about the fucked up things that happen to and around us, especially not to TME people who benefit from doing those fucked up things to us.

a common (and exhausting) misconception seems to happen around the word "exempt". let's be clear: transmisogyny isn't just "misogyny that happens to trans women". transmisogyny is a social force which influences *all* people which posits that differently gendered people are intrinsically different in some meaningful way and that one gender is in some way socially superior to another. the ways that we construct, define, inscribe, navigate, and relate to gender are all influenced by transmisogyny. if getting to wield misogyny without consequence is the carrot of patriarchy, then the threat of faggotization for being too great a failure to one's assigned boyhood is the stick. I've seen transmisogyny described as the psychological lynchpin that holds patriarchy together. some people can leverage their gender in some way to mitigate the impact of this force, but it is a fundamental part very sea that we all must swim in.

the same can be said for other marginalizing forces. temporarily nondisabled people can experience negative consequences of ableism, but feeling burnt out from an excessive workload is a fundamentally different experience when not fully exposed to ableism. for instance, you might have your exhaustion taken more seriously by your doctor if you are not yet disabled and consequently receive better medical care. a straight man might be mistreated if others believe him to be gay, but he's dealing with one moment of interpersonal bigotry rather than an entire lifetime of being under threat (for example, his right to the social and financial benefits of marriage are far more guaranteed than they might be if he was gay). and so on.

TME people experience transmisogyny but they are not its primary targets and can exempt themselves from scrutiny and mistreatment by leveraging their gender in some way that TMA people cannot. one pernicious way that this happens is through a kind of affected incompetence, positioning themselves to always be seeking education from TMA people about transmisogyny and offering shallow rebuttals and critiques such as the images attached (which they may not even consciously recognize as such). this positions TMA people as bearing the expectation of answering and clarifying on demand and being held to account for all the other TMA people who have come before her.

That's what V-coding is. That is why they are so adamant about sending trans women to men's prisons, because sex trafficking trans women within the men's prison system is an essential part of that system. Being misgendered by this isn't even an issue that's on our radar!

it would be so awesome

it would be so cool