Hello! To keep this short, I finally actually turned my regularly unhinged and disorganized Tumblr thoughts on pathologic 2 into a video. So, if you too have brain-worms that are only sated by thinking about the funny plague game, maybe give it a watch! I like to think I approach the text in some novel ways.
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Surely playing pathologic 3, a game about feeling stuck in time, will not destroy me by speaking to the ways in which obtaining hrt has felt like a temporal limbo, one where I wish I could just be perfect.
Surely playing pathologic 3, a game about feeling stuck in time, will not destroy me by speaking to the ways in which obtaining hrt has felt like a temporal limbo, one where I wish I could just be perfect.
Hello party people, I come again bearing news of a video I spent way too long on making. This time, focusing on my thoughts about Elden ring and its DLC. Specifically, I wanted to examine the larger themes around divinity, and how it relates to Marika and miquella. As well as problematize a lot of the takes Iâve seen surrounding it (especially around miquella)
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I think for the past ten years or so, people have reduced patriarchy to "hatred of women" as if it's simply about personal prejudice. In that case it actually makes sense why so many women think the solution is educating people better. If the issue was just that women aren't liked then campaigns about "loving women" or "teach your sons to respect women" would work.
But patriarchy is not a misunderstanding it's a power structure. And all power structures are held up by those with the power benefiting, not those with power not "knowing better". Ending Patriarchy essentially means you are asking billions of people to give up their power, and the obvious response from people with power is "make me"
I don't expect Bezos to redistribute his wealth because I explained labour rights, so patriarchy isn't any different. You'll never give oppressors moral awakenings. The entire point of power structures is people benefiting from harm while being emotionally insulated from it.
Taking on the burden of making men understand just seems like emotional labour scaled up.
I feel like this really feeds into the way men are portrayed in historical fiction, the way patriarchy must be paired with cruelty, when many men loved their wives, mothers, and children. You can have a man who took care of his elderly mother, loved his wife, and adored his daughters, but if he firmly believes that their place is in the home and would be offended if they challenged him directly on anything in his domain, because he is the head of the family, that's still a problem. Even though no one is being directly abused, it's still patriarchy and it still sucks.
And you can a wife was raised this way and doesn't think to challenge it because it's all she knows. She's watched her mother and countless other women "manage" their husbands and take care of the home and she does the same. Things flow smoothly. She prepares her daughters to manage their future husbands. Her really smart daughter she arranges to marry a man who has a profession where the daughter can assist. The daughter's accomplishments will be absorbed by the husband, but that's how a marriage partnership works, right? He appreciates it, so it's all good.
The problem isn't as overt as abuse or hatred. The problem isn't whether men love the women in their lives or not, you can still oppress and devalue someone you love (like how you love a pet, except this pet is a human). The problem is believing that men are inherently superior; that tasks and duties must be divided by gender; that men must be in power because they are more intelligent and that women are only good for staying at home and raising children; the squandering of potential and talent, etc. It's still a problem even if everyone "loves" women. It's a problem because they love them as a lesser being to be protected and not an equal human being.
Guys ok Iâm deciding to be SO normal and make the next tattoo Iâm getting based on cultist simulator. Specifically, I wanna get both the lanturn, and knock lore symbols (in their respective colours).
I WANT advice for deciding layout. Because I know i want it on my inner forearm. But idk if I wanna put them horizontal across the arm, or vertical down my arm (pic for reference using twonies as a rough size)
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Chronicling (almost) everything we know about the development of Robert Kurvitz's quasi-sacral object complex
This post represents an attempt to gather (almost) all the reliable public info we have about the broader worldbuilding of Elysium Corona Mundi (the series to which Disco Elysium and Sacred and Terrible Air belong) and how it developed over time into one place, presented more or less chronologically and in a way accessible to fans unacquainted with the, shall we say, more arcane lore of Elysium. In the original incarnation of this post, basically every sentence was scrupulously referenced; however, referencing is a major pain in the ass on tumblr, so instead I just have a broad list of sources at the bottom and if you want to inquire any further into a specific claim you can just message me.
I'll also warn readers that the sections discussing the Torson & McLaine campaign and the (currently cancelled) sequel to Disco Elysium contain potential (albeit relatively minor) spoilers for the planned plot of that game. The creators still hope to make that game one day, so if you want to go in totally blind, you know what to avoid.
Evermier
The first serious worldbuilding project that Robert Kurvitz embarked on dates back to at least the year 1997. It was developed with his childhood friends in Estonia, including later Elysium worldbuilders Martin Luiga, Argo Tuulik and Kaspar Kalvet, and went by the name Evermier. This was a medieval fantasy setting formed around a tabletop roleplaying system that Robert Kurvitz and Martin Luiga have referred to as âbootleg Finnish Dungeons and Dragons,â but which Argo Tuulik suspects was actually a Powered by the Apocalypse framework. The vast majority of the boysâ time with Evermier was not spent actually playing any campaigns, but rather formulating the setting and mechanics (both Argo and Luiga ended up never participating in a roleplaying session of Evermier). Argo splits the time spent conceiving Evermier into two broad periods â one he dubs âEvermier 1.0,â which stuck close to traditional Dungeons and Dragons â and one dubbed âEvermier 2.0,â where no tabletop campaigns were ever actually played and all the time was spent system-building. Argo estimates this latter period lasted some 2-3 years.
Scope creep quickly hit the project, with character sheets evolving into whole character books. Luiga alleges that that âthe wizard bookâ was supposed to have 350 spells altogether, each with at least a half-page story about the spell, in prose, and that âabout a healthy third of the book got done in the end.â Argo gives a different number, stating that early estimates for it had more like 900 spells, but agrees that two-thirds of each page wouldâve been reserved for âjuicy literary stuffâ about the spell in question while the rest of the page was dedicated to stats, and says that Luiga and Kaspar wrote a lot of excellent stuff for these spells.
Argo says there were about twenty different schools of technology (such as âmetallurgyâ and âopticsâ), at least twelve classes of mages, and âso manyâ subclasses of elves. There was also a subclass of dwarf that, instead of being stocky, chubby and bearded like traditional dwarves, were veiny and more like âRussian miners.â When implementing necromancers, Robert âzoned in on this soul aspect,â which later became the basis for Elysiumâs pale. Argo describes these necromancers as âhobbits, but with these little lanterns that guide spirits or souls from this massive fog.â Luiga places the invention of this âfog of death with whom some could communicateâ as happening late in Evermierâs development and likewise considers it a primitive precursor to what would become the pale.
The worldbuilders spent a lot of time gearing up for an ultimate roleplaying session that never ended up materializing, but their artist friend JĂźri Saks drew illustrations in anticipation of it, including character portraits. Luigaâs character was a âsickle-elfâ whose class was called âsaint.â This saint character was a handsome elf with small pointy ears and a neat little beard, who wielded two âlight swordsâ (possibly katanas), and a crossbow called Crucifix on his back. The character was from a âgrim northern landâ and was a âreligious lunatic typeâ who believed in a âgrim, monotheistic God.â Argo alleges that Luiga related to this character so much that it almost became a part of his persona; he âdeveloped this mode that sometimes when we were drinking he happened to slip in, where he would start judging people. I would like to say that it still remained within the boundaries of normalcy, but uh, unfortunately it didnât.â
Kaspar Kalvet at some point played an archer character named Minor Mortifer (âSmall Death-bringerâ), and there was also a dwarf king named Fuirum Thundergate.
According to Luiga, the name âElysiumâ was suggested by someone on the dragon.ee forums, but it took half a year for Robert to start seriously considering it. This was back when the setting was still a medieval fantasy world. Luiga and Argo both agree that the historicized Elysium as we know it now was born around the time when Robert decided to get rid of fantasy races, because â as Argo puts it â âthey were kind of stupid.â With this decision, Evermier underwent a modernization process of sorts, an attempt to bring the setting closer to real life, where many other fantasy elements were stripped away in favor of more realistic representations of cultures, mostly in the form of nations. Argo says that many of the fantasy races transformed over the course of this process into the nations of Elysium â the dwarves became the nations of Graad, the elves became the great desert isola of Iilmaraa (formerly Armaghast, a nod to Dan Simmonsâ Hyperion, still referenced to this day with Iilmaraaâs Erg desert), the night-elves or star-elves eventually became Seol, and the snow-elves became Katla (which apparently has not changed too much since the Evermier days, and whose namesake is the dragon in Astrid Lindgrenâs novel The Brothers Lionheart). Among the first innovations of the new modernized setting was the concept of floating magnet trains, later described in Sacred and Terrible Air.
After the Evermier setting had been discarded, many of its ideas ended up being repurposed into historical periods within the new historicized Elysium setting.
The Elysium tabletop campaigns
Between the years 2003 â 2007, three tabletop campaigns were played in the then newly formed Elysium setting. These all took place in Revachol during the Current Century and featured Robert as dungeon master. The first campaign seems to have been called Soul Miltonâs World Autumn, the second one Riget and the final one known simply as Torson & McLaine, or alternatively the RCM campaign. The first two were played at Robertâs old apartment in the concrete block project at Mustamäe, while the third one was played in the house of Luiga's dad, which the three later lived together in following his death.
Soul Miltonâs World Autumn
Of the three campaigns, Soul Miltonâs is arguably the one most shrouded in mystery as it stands. It took place in Revachol and Martin Luiga played the titular character Soul Milton. The character has been described as âone of the cornerstones of the Elysium mythosâ and an âaspiring world-historical person.â By the time of the campaign, Milton seems to have become an amnesiac as a result of âsuppressing his own mind to protect himself from his enemies,â and in this process apparently also adopted a disguise by âputting another skin on himselfâ (what precisely that means, we don't know). He was âvery richâ and came from a well-off family, had a complicated and possibly romantic relationship with his sister and was a âpolitician slash businessmanâ who âwanted to be the innocence of consumerism.â As it turns out, the enemies who were chasing him were the Therriers of Elysiumâs final innocence, Ambrosius Saint-Miro (a major figure in both Sacred and Terrible Air and Full-Core State Nihilist, to be discussed later), who Soul Milton met at one point. Saint-Miro apparently told him that âthere has never been an innocence who is also not an innocence.â This encounter places the Soul Milton campaign firmly after the events of Disco Elysium, possibly in the late Fifties or Sixties. During this campaign, Argo played Soul Miltonâs horse carriage driver, a man by the name of Elroy Quint Duval.
Also associated with Soul Milton are two other characters. Before Sacred and Terrible Air was conceived, Robert had planned to tell the story of Elysium in three books; one starring Soul Milton, another starring a character named Dister, and the third a character named Dallasz.
Dister, or Marius Dijsters, was an extraphysicist and published author hailing from Oranje. He was a son of diplomats, one of them the grand ambassador of Oranje on Iilmaraa. He seems to have been a significant enough figure to have an entire strand of thought â Disterism â named after him (mentioned in the inside covers of Sacred and Terrible Air), and like Soul Milton, he had an antagonistic relationship with Ambrosius (as made apparent by an incident where he was threatened by the innocenceâs Therriers at age 25). He is also apparently involved in some way with Theo Van Kok (of Sacred and Terrible Air fame), along with a Paul Messier (presumably the husband of Disco Elysium's Joyce Messier), apparently the beneficiary of such prestigious titles as "Enemy of the Press '67" and "Worst Person of the Year '67."
Information is rather scant on Dallasz, but during the making of Disco Elysium, there were plans to repurpose him into another project, a comic book named Mercurio Dallasz and the Twelve Kojkos which was going to be illustrated by Aleksander Rostov. This project unfortunately fell through, but we know the premise: a band of kojkos under Dallaszâs leadership attempt to assassinate innocence Saint-Miro. This was presumably an Inglourious Basterds type affair.Â
Riget
âItâs better to die in the Kingdom than live in a shithole.â
This was the tagline of Elysiumâs second tabletop campaign, Riget, whose name is Danish for âkingdomâ and was taken from Lars von Trierâs mini-series of the same name. Once more, the setting was Revachol, but this time it was limited to a peculiar part of it: Le Royaume (French for, again, âthe Kingdomâ) a vast network of dungeons and burial chambers two kilometers beneath the city, housing ancient ruins and remnants (quite possibly of the Seraseolitic civilization mentioned in Disco Elysium), along with treasures such as bioluminescent plants which have adapted to living in total darkness. The stars of this campaign were three impoverished children, all between the ages of 10-12 and members of a gang named âEarthworms,â who decided to venture down into the catacombs in search of valuable artifacts to sell. At some point, these kids somehow found themselves unable to get out of Le Royaume, supposedly trapped underground by demons who sought to use the children as vessels to escape back to the surface. When this campaign was being played, demons were still a part of the setting and haunted the halls of the underground network, along with monsters â such as the armakhaan beast, also known as Lelo Lelo, a terrifying blind and flightless hunter killer bird which was a mix between the xenomorph and cassowary. As for whether demons are still part of the setting in any way; both Argo and Luiga's statements are too ambiguous to reach any firm conclusion. Argo does note that the concept of 'demons' connotes something subtly different in Estonian than the scary red guys in popular Western culture, and are more like a primordial evil.
In the campaign, Argo played a boy named Miron, whose nickname was âSneakerâ, while Luiga played Joschka, a crippled boy with a bad leg. During the campaign, individual roleplaying sessions with Robert were held where the playersâ stories evolved in parallel without them being kept on the same page. Each of them would get info the others were not privy to: Argoâs was that Joschka is unaware of the fact that heâs not considered a true member of the gang; in reality, heâs an outcast generally considered a weird, creepy weakling, and was only brought on for his lockpicking and mechanical skills.
Eventually, the Riget campaign got quite far into âLord of the Flies territory.â Near the end, Sneaker and the third boy (played by another friend) conspired to kill Joschka deep underground.
Torson & McLaine
The worldbuilders continued to refine the roleplaying mechanics they were working with for the campaigns. By the time of Riget, the basics of the Metric system had been introduced, with the now familiar INT, PSY, FYS, and MOT. But according to Argo it was the RCM campaign, known principally as the Torson and McLaine campaign, which was âthe first mature cycle of Elysium storytelling.â It took place, once more, in Revachol â this time in a ghetto called Jamrock, named after a Damian Marley song, and was focused on the goings on in Station 51 (renamed Precinct 41 by the time of Disco Elysium), the RCMâs lone precinct in Jamrock. The campaign took large amounts of inspiration from the TV series The Shield and its depiction of corrupt police officers and the intermingling of gang warfare and state-sanctioned violence. A central concept was: the cops are a gang, and the gangs are cops.
The RCM campaign began on a sort of prologue session, wherein Argo and Luiga played characters named Antwone Novak and Trinidad Tranquile respectively, two junior officers newly recruited into the RCM. Antwone was a âpetit bourgeois type,â whereas Trinidad was a young communist who had recently been given time off work due to excessive violence. Luiga describes him:
He worked at a meat shop that belonged to Carson Torsson, Mack Torsonâs dad, and had a system of stealing from work in order to âadequately compensate for his labourâ. He also liked to practice a crude type of critical theory in the vein of âthis building has been made that large to humiliate me, to show off with a power greater than me, to scare me into submissionâ. And he had a system of smoking no more than five cigarettes per day to cut down on smoking costs â Kimâs single cigarette habit might be a distant echo of that. He had, I think, a 7 in PSY (at least 5) and 2 in INT and mediocre physical stats, the core system was pretty much set by then.
At the end of this prologue session, Station 51 became the target of a terrorist attack. We donât know much about the perpetrators beyond them being âChurch of Evil type guysâ in Luigaâs words, but the dice was rolled badly and Antwone and Trini both ended up dying in a âhorsebombingâ attack, falling onto the bridge outside the station.
Map of Station 51, located in a repurposed steel mill.
Going forward, Argo and Luiga had to find new characters to play, and they ended up going with ones they had earlier conceptualized, half-jokingly, on one of their many walks around Tallinn from parties and other events, since public transportation was notoriously unreliable. These characters were Chester McLaine, played by Luiga, and Mack âthe Torsoâ Torson, played by Argo. Torson was derived in half from Vic Mackey, the protagonist of the Shield, and half from Argoâs own personality. Argo says that Luiga put his own personality into Chester as well, but isnât sure where the other half of that character came from.
The main plot of the campaign centered on a revenge operation against those who perpetrated the attack on Station 51. In the second session of the campaign, Torson and McLaine are involved in a church raid; though Argo takes care to mention that he doesnât think this is the church raid mentioned in Disco Elysium, and that itâs not a Dolorian Church but rather the âArmed Church of Saint-Michelle.â Among the tasks of Torson and McLaine were gathering âguns and drugsâ for the âbig revenge operation.â
Mack Torson was an idiotic body builder, an admirer of Lieutenant John âthe Archetypeâ McCoy, the Stationâs resident mass murderer, and altogether âway too stupid to concentrate on the main plot and politics of the police station,â focusing his attention instead on matters like âhow to get it on with the captainâs secretary and tattooing the word âJamrockâ on his body hundreds of times over.â Chester McLaine was a little more perceptive, wondering about things such as âwhat the hell is going on with the armour maker or Nix Gottlieb,â but was still an all-around uncritical person who put a lot of stock into âloving the captainâ and âbeing a communist memebot.â McLaine was also âa sword guy,â since at this point in the worldbuilding swords were still viable weapons, with guns being slow to reload. Torson and McLaine lived together, along with two other cops, Sundance Fischer and Elfboy Williams. âElfboyâs thing was being the dexterity bro, in which he continually lost to McLaine, and Sundanceâs thing was having a fat ass and cleaning his guns all the time.â Torson had a wife named Tessa Torson, and later in life both Chester and Mack would apparently raise adopted daughters, Tessa and Triss (whether these Tessas are separate characters or represent the same character at different stages of development is unclear; Argo and Luiga seem to contradict each other, unless there's something very weird going on).
Torson and McLaine both regularly abused their powers, as RCM officers in general are prone to do, and in their heads they were justified in doing so. A highlight of the RCM campaign had been sessions dubbed âthe Ballad of Chad Tilbrooks and Ămile Mollins,â centering on two junior officers which were ritually abused and exploited by the older members of their station, including Torson and McLaine. At one point, Torson and McLaine were also involved in an interrogation of a local religious figurehead which devolved into mutilation torture, which only the âbullet-lobotomizedâ officer Damien â44â Latrec called out for what it was (enthusiastically). The interrogation ended up being ineffective as the religious leader simply âretreated into a happy place inside his head.â
The Captain of Station 51, Ptolemaios Pryce, was immensely respected and glorified by its officers, whereas the stationâs lazareth Nix Gottlieb, while also respected, was generally resented and found hard to tolerate for being âan absolute horrible cunt.â In spite of this, Nix Gottlieb was known to have a curious friendship with Pryce, talking alone with him in the Captainâs office long into the night. This fact regularly perplexed the officers of Station 51.
Eventually, at some point in the campaign, Torson and McLaine would come to the focal point of the story, when they make a shocking discovery: the reason for Pryce and Gottliebâs strange friendship is that they are both members of the top-secret underground anarchist organization the Ultra, and not only are plans underway for a national liberation movement freeing Revachol from Coalition control, known as THE RETURN, but the two have set their sights on a much larger goal: world revolution.Â
The novel cycle
No more campaigns were played in the Elysium world after 2007, when the boys stopped playing the RCM campaign (with the story unfinished). Robert Kurvitz instead shifted his attention to writing a book in the Elysium universe. Eventually the plan became for it to be the opening to a cycle of novels, totaling eight altogether. We have the English titles of each book and their epigraphs, along with the order of the series, from a post by Kurvitz on the dragon.ee forums.
They are as follows:
#0
A SACRED AND TERRIBLE AIR
My heart will not rest until it rests in you.
- St. Augustine
#1
THE COUNTERMEASURES
What am I searching for in your dreams?
I am not searching. I am merely cleaning up.
- Christian Emmerich
#2
NO TRUCE WITH THE FURIES
Man-kind, be vigilant! We loved you.
- Julius FuÄik
#3
MADRUGADA
It must be lit as dreams, by lightning flashes only.
- Witold Gombrowicz
#4
TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY NINE DAYS REMAINING
Evening brings the child back to the arms of the mother.- Sappho
#5COALITION WARSHIP
I donât want to be in no indie shit. I want to be in the big ones.I want to be in the ones that matter. - Mickey Rourke
#6
WE ARE THE WAITING
What remains, is longing for something completely different.
- Luis Althusser
#7
INDIFFERENCE
A great silence, some low pressure front is forming.- Arvi Siig
Sacred and Terrible Air was eventually released in Estonian back in 2013, and after the success of Disco Elysium plans were made to translate the book into English. Rumor goes that this translation was very far along or even finished, but unfortunately all plans for releasing this translation to the public have been halted with the ongoing legal dispute.
Fortunately, dedicated fans have taken it upon themselves to translate the book into English for those particularly interested. The most successful translation by far is the one by Group Ibex, which still receives updates to this day.
Read it here.
Full-Core State Nihilist
Many donât know that Sacred and Terrible Air is actually not the only written work predating Disco Elysium. Before even Sacred and Terrible Air was released, Martin Luiga wrote a short story later given the English title Full-Core State Nihilist, which was uploaded to the old ZA/UM blog. While obviously not as meaty a text as Sacred and Terrible Air, it deals with some overlapping themes and gives us our first proper window into the nation of Mesque, so important to the broader narrative of Elysium. Â
Full-Core State Nihilist was later heavily edited and uploaded to nihilist.fm, another blog site which many of the ZA/UM members were active on.
Finally, in 2022, Martin Luiga translated the Estonian story, basing his English version on the original ZA/UM blog version, and uploaded it to Medium. This translation itself could be seen as a third edit of the story, featuring new references to Disco Elysium.
(As it happens, I have also arrogantly taken it upon myself to create my own translation of this brilliant story, which combines elements from all three versions, and is an attempt to render the prose in slightly less idiosyncratic English, closer to the âhouse styleâ of Disco Elysium, while remaining heavily informed by Luigaâs own translation.)
You can find Luigaâs translation here and my version here.
THE RETURN
In 2014, Robert Kurvitz pitched an idea to his friend and associate, novelist and businessman Kaur Kender, to turn the Torson & McLaine roleplaying campaign into a full-fledged video game for PC. The pitch proposed a 3000 EUR investment to produce a vision document, with design and artwork handled by Aleksander Rostov and Juri Saks, detailing the setting, plot, game mechanics and art style. In 2015, this document was finished, and by this time a provisional name for the project seems to have been settled on: THE RETURN. Â
This vision document reveals that the game was once planned to feature turn-based tactical combat. The plan was also for the player to create their own character from certain âarchetypes,â each with different personalities, talents and appearances. Over time it became clear that these plans were too ambitious; by 2016 the archetypes had been narrowed down into a single character â the âdisgrace to the uniformâ Harry du Bois â and the prologue chapter of his story, set in Martinaise, was split off into its own game. This smaller project received the title that originally was given to the third novel in the planned cycle (which was almost certainly anticipated to center around the story of Precinct 41 in the year â51) â NO TRUCE WITH THE FURIES.
No Truce became Disco Elysium and the rest, as they say, is history. But unlike many fans who view Disco as a singular statement that needs no further comment, the developers were far from done with the world they had created. The dominant internal view, especially among the original worldbuilders, was that Disco Elysium was merely a minor project to get ZA/UMâs foot through the proverbial gate. Work on the true game â the one they had wanted to create all along â could finally begin now.
As far as we know, the plot of the game wouldâve stuck fairly closely to the events of the Torson & McLaine roleplaying campaign. The game was to open with an attack on Precinct 41, and the rest of the game wouldâve been a revenge story of sorts. Players would assume control of Harry again, and this time his primary partner would be Jean Vicquemare, although there would be an assortment of other potential party members. The map would be at least four times bigger and set in Jamrock.
Plot points which would be explored in the sequel had already been set up in Disco Elysium â among these are Pryce and Gottliebâs revolution, Le Royaume, Edgar Claire, and La Puta Madre. Cuno and Cunoesse wouldâve featured as returning characters; not much is known about how Cuno and Kim wouldâve been integrated into the game given how variable their endings in Disco Elysium are, but Argo says that he wouldâve insisted on Cuno returning. X7 â the now-cancelled DLC project which Argo worked on for the remainder of his time at ZA/UM after Robert, Rostov and Helen were ousted from the company, wouldâve featured Cuno as the protagonist. Meanwhile, Cunoesse was planned to reappear in THE RETURN as a leader of a gang of kids in Le Royaume, according to Martin Luiga.
Obviously, the characters of Precinct 41 would've featured heavily, and we'd be introduced to many familiar names which we were already given glimpses of in Esprit de Corps checks in Disco Elysium. One of these would be Lt. Berdyayeva, a superior of Harryâs, whose daughter is Jean Vicquemareâs ex. A character we know nearly nothing about except for the fact that he was conceptualized back in the tabletop days as a sort of joke character, but survived all the way into the planning stage for THE RETURN, is âMarivald the Merry Butcherâ â what his role might've been, your guess is as good as mine.
Pryce and Gottliebâs goals in the game might've involved an attempt to unite several diverse groups with a common interest in an independent Revachol; this wouldâve included the besmerties, the West Revacholian crime syndicates mentioned in Disco Elysium. Prominent among them wouldâve been La Puta Madre, a Mesque gang leader and drug manufacturer, a man of such immense power that he has RCM officers tending his poppy fields in terror (his influence also seems to survive past the events of the game; he gets a mention in Sacred and Terrible Air). The Madre wouldâve apparently been an attractive feminine-presenting man, impeccably dressed and wearing beautiful makeup; his gender-nonconformity a way of projecting power over the traditionally macho culture of Villalobos. The rival gang, Ahura Mazda, led by a gangster known as the Mazda, wouldâve presumably also featured prominently â Rostov recently released old concept art depicting one of their gang members.
There were more plans for the sequel that only came along after the development of Disco Elysium itself. Robert has talked about wanting to double down on events like the Mercenary Tribunal, handling big action scenes within the more closed literary format of the FELD dialogue system, hopefully allowing for even more variation than was possible in Disco's big confrontation. Another infamous idea was the inclusion of a second protagonist â a pregnant woman, about 5 months along. Kurvitz has mentioned this idea in interviews, saying that it would be "an incredible writing challenge" within Disco Elysium's internalized skill system: "It would be unbelievable to use our skill system to speak about the bodily sensations of having another organism inside of you, while you're in the setting and talking to another person." That said, the addition of an entire new protagonist is very ambitious indeed â it's not clear whether the idea would involve alternating perspectives of some sort, or a choice in the character creator of which one to go with, but Kurvitz made it clear that these would be entirely different characters, unlike many games which offer only a superficial choice between male and female playable characters. Kurvitz expressed some doubt about being able to include this in the game, but at least expected it to be integrated via an expansion post-release if not.
Miscellaneous info
Argo and Robert have both hinted that there is a metatextual element to the overarching Elysium narrative. Whenever presented with readings or theories that contextualize the game as some sort of story-within-a-story, they act coy and refuse to give any clear answers. Argo outright offered an interpretation of the pale which presents it as what happens as the narrative starts âleaking outâ of the head of a reader or audience member no longer actively absorbed in the world and said that âElysium is a fictional world that is aware that itâs fictional.â
Apparently related to this aspect of the narrative, according to Argo, are the three satellites in orbit above the world of Elysium â Iikon, Zenith and Shakermaker â which have been there since âbefore the 8,000 years of recorded historyâ and before âthe Polycarpeum event.â The satellites have only been mentioned in niche corners of the currently published materials, and the innocence Polycarp has only been mentioned in secondary materials, such as the artbook and the inside covers of Sacred and Terrible Air, leading to speculation about him being involved with the pale and the memory of his reign being wiped from history.
Also related to the metatext, again according to Argo, is a character known as âthe Man Behind the Black Sunâ â he gets one mention by the Paledriver in Disco Elysium, but curiously she seems to refer to it as the title of a movie that was released in Mesque during the revolutionary era, potentially a boiadeiro picture starring the actor Gabriel Buenguerro.
The magical elements of the pre-Elysium fantasy world morphed over time into what is called âextraphysicsâ in Elysium. The innocences, the pale, and âplasmâ all testify to this supernatural aspect of the setting.
At some point, Ambrosius Saint-Miro apparently constructs nihilist death camps, which Triss and Tessa (the adopted daughters of Torson and McLaine) end up in and eventually escape.
"Magpies" are not a real thing and were never a part of the original plan for the Elysium narrative. The concept artist who made the image from which the term was popularized has gone on record saying that he invented this idea himself and that it was taken from his own worldbuilding ideas. There is nothing to suggest that this was integrated into the game; Argo and Luiga reacted with confusion at the mention of this concept.
Kurvitz had an insanely ambitious list of projects he wanted to make in the Elysium universe before he was ousted from ZA/UM; "The last one I want to make, when I'm 50 or 60, that I want to absolutely go crazy on and throw out all commercial considerations and get this as conceptual as possible, is the tabletop setting. The working title for the tabletop setting is You Are Vapor. It will be a really, really, crazy pen-and-paper game."
List of sources:
All parts of Argo Tuulik's Human Can Opener Podcast episode.
Martin Luiga's Human Can Opener episode.
Martin Luiga's Medium account and other blog posts: Interview, 8 years ago..., Hello Fellow Worldbuilders, Correction, A Policeman In Revachol, Fuirum Thundergate (Substack)
Tweets by Martin Luiga: 1, 2, 3, 4
Tweets by Argo Tuulik: 1
The dragon.ee post about the novel cycle
"Welcome to Revachol" on the devblog
"Outro" by Robert Kurvitz, featured in the official Disco Elysium artbook.
Disco Elysium, Sacred and Terrible Air, and Full-Core State Nihilist. Obviously.
Possibly more that I'm forgetting. Feel free to ask.
hidden mission logs in the pathologic 1 bachelor route
has anyone ever talked about how the bachelor actually does have more mission statements that update throughout the game like the other two healers, they're just hidden in the pathologic 1 script file and never trigger? because i found those.
it's interesting to me, because i first heard about pathologic through the hbomberguy video, and a big point he makes at the beginning is how clever it is that the bachelor's day 1 mission about examining simon kain never changes throughout the game, even though you almost immediately find out that this isn't going to happen. hbomberguy framed it as cleverly underscoring how daniil originally came for the town for his own goals and now he's trapped there, stuck doing something totally different, and i always thought that was the case too... but apparently not!
here are all of the mission logs i found, with estimated days for the ones that don't appear in the game, based on the mission logs of the other healers and the events that are mentioned:
i also made a nekoweb page with all of the game's mission logs for easier reading, that also has the 2005 version of the text and the russian version, as well as the script id numbers so people can check for themselves: https://thanatica.nekoweb.org/mission_logs.html (update: mirror hosted on github here)
they're pretty fascinating, and definitely give an insight into how unstable daniil's headspace is throughout his route. like, him essentially saying he'd rather kill himself than admit defeat as early as day 2 (he explicitly uses "suicide" instead of "die" in the other translations). and the sudden switch to 2nd person POV in the day 11 mission log makes him come off as pretty dissociative at that point, especially since the other two healers speak in 1st person throughout their logs. and just the general paranoia in everything he says.
i do wonder if these mission updates were intentionally disabled or what? there are definitely other dialogues which appear in the game's script but can't be triggered (the bachelor route dialogue with the haruspex after you discover you're all toys on day 12, for example), and they went to the trouble of translating all of this text for the 2015 HD release, so i'd guess that it's just the game being janky and them never fixing a lot of instances of dialogue/mission log triggers being broken.
I love the little hint that the Polyhedron is falling apart. It will be very interesting if the conflict from Pathologic 2 (and 1) is absent for this one and instead something else is causing it to decay in this run.
This bit really stuck with me! Even more harrowing during the convo you have with khan whose super confident that leaving all the kids in the polyhedron is safe, cuz it will ânever fallâ.
It also made me think about the three âdefeatsâ that the bachelor suffers under death, as seen in the memory stuff on day 12. That the town dies, that the bachelor fails to find a way to extend life, and that Simon kain dies (a fact Iâm linking to the collapse of the polyhedron). I wonder if there will be similarly complex sacrifices that just be made for different endings
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