Mostly Jane Austen, favourite is Mansfield Park. Also JAFF. This is what happens when a very bored Cognitive Neuroscientist gets super into 19th century British literature? she/her Canadian
I write about Jane Austen because I love her works, but also because I write JAFF (Jane Austen Fan Fiction). I also really enjoy Anne BrontÍ, especially The Tenant of Wildfell Hall, George Eliot, and Elizabeth Gaskell, specifically Wives & Daughters.
I have two self-published novels, Prideful & Persuaded: A Jane Austen Crossover Romance and Unfairly Caught: A Mansfield Park Variation. You can find my free stories and other stuff here. I also write on AHA and AO3 under this same username. If you want a comprehensive list of every named character in Jane Austenâs six novels: here. (for Regency names in real life here), Mansfield Park probably isn't about slavery and Regency-ish household budgets
My Northanger Abbey readthrough can be found here
My Lady Susan readthrough can be found here
Link to my AITA Jane Austen posts
Link to find all my Jane Austen Charted posts
Link to find all my Why You Should Read This Jane Austen Novel posts
Objective (lol) hotness ratings for Jane Austen's heroes, heroines, and dubious men
Some of my favourite posts:
Estimated Sexual Abilities of Austen Men
First Kiss for each Austen Heroine Couple
Who would each Jane Austen Heroine stab?
The sluttiest thing a (Jane Austen) man can say
Each Jane Austen Hero Writes a âWentworth Letterâ
Fighting ability of Austen Men
If you want to learn more about my other life in science, check out this post.
My Asian drama sideblog Fake Married my Dead Fiance is here (this does not work on phones? just search fake-married-my-dead-fiance)
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I was just listening to a YouTube video about Jane Austen's life, and in passing, it suggested that the reason why mother/child relationships are so often distant in Austen's books (with the mothers either dead, absent, or incompetent) might be because of Austen's own class- and period-typical lack of childhood bonding with her mother: living with a village wet nurse as a baby, then having a nanny, and then going to boarding school. Do you think this link is likely true, or does it sound like an excessive attempt to link the art to the psychology of the artist?
I don't personally like to draw parallels between the author's real life and their novels, unless something is clearly semi-autobiographical (Agnes Grey for example). But I would also say that not all Austen mothers are dead, absent, or incompetent. Mrs. Jennings is quite active, visits her daughters frequently, and seems to have a very loving relationship with at least Charlotte and her son-in-law (Lady Middleton doesn't like her mom). Mrs. Dashwood in Sense & Sensibility may not be as prudent as Elinor, but she is loving and close with her daughters, especially Marianne. Mrs. Morland is mostly not around for Northanger Abbey, but seems to be very involved with her children. The Musgroves seem very close despite boarding school and Mary Musgrove seems to be around her kids a lot, if not directly taking care of them.
Also, I think sometimes we get arrogant in our modern ideas of parenting and think children would have felt unloved in the past. However, expectations would have been different and comparison would be different as well. Children would look around and see that the way their parents expressed love for them was similar to other families, so they probably wouldn't feel deprived. I remember even reading a study that 20 minutes per day of genuine bonding with a child is all they really need. The Austens visited their wet-nursed children daily as far as I remember. And children today still have deep bonds with their parents despite 6 hours of school and after school activities. Or not, if their parents suck. But parents will suck under any model of parenting.
I think Austen was just interested in how parents can prepare their children for life or drag them down. She avoids the popular orphan trope and instead focuses on the ways parents can affect their children while alive. If her heroines are half-orphans, she always kills the more competent parent... You know I don't think the relationships are really that "distant" at all. Mrs. Bennet is right there, muddling in her daughter's lives. Fanny Price is over-parented. The Dashwood girls are close with their mother... Anne was close to her mother and is very close to a mother figure in Lady Russell. Emma has a close female mother figure as well.
Anyway, I guess my general answer is no, I don't agree. Doesn't seem like a coherent theory to me.
It's so funny to me how people mock Caroline Bingley's social position while forgetting that if Caroline is so lowly and tainted by trade, her brother Charles would be too. If Caroline was unworthy of marrying Darcy (she isn't) than Darcy would not be staying at Charles's rented estate. "But friendship!" Please read Emma. Mr. Knightley might esteem Robert Martin, but he would never dine with him. He would never marry Robert Martin's sister. When Harriet marries Robert Martin, Emma and Harriet's friendship dies and becomes a relationship of distant respect.
In the upper classes of the Regency era, your friends were people you could theoretically marry. You visited people you could marry. Darcy wants his sister to marry Charles and that means it's possible for him to marry Caroline. You cannot have Darcy and Bingley as close friends unless they were close enough in social status for their families to intermarry. Caroline can't be disgusting trade trash if Charles is a particular friend. You cannot have it both ways.
Yes! But even if it was the Bingley's father, we know Mrs. Jenning's husband in Sense & Sensibility was in trade and his daughters married a baronet and a wealthy gentleman. They did the same thing as Caroline Bingley, went to a nice school and jumped into the gentry with large dowries.
Do you consider Caroline being called a âpick meâ in modern terms reductive/inaccurate
No. I shall explain. Also, ug this term is horrible but this does actually come up a lot so I'll get into it.
Here is the top definition of a "pick me" girl from Urban Dictionary:
A pick-me girl is a girl who seeks male validation by indirectly or directly insinuating that she is ânot like the other girls.â Basically a female version of a simp. Characteristics of a pick-me girl: lets men walk all over her because of her âCaReFrEEâ demeanor, only hangs out with men because theyâre âunproblematicâ, exerts qualities/characteristics of her male counterparts that were not initially present to be more likable and relatable to them, etc.
Firstly, Caroline attempts to accuse Elizabeth of being a "pick me" girl
âEliza Bennet,â said Miss Bingley, when the door was closed on her, âis one of those young ladies who seek to recommend themselves to the other sex by undervaluing their own; and with many men, I daresay, it succeeds; but, in my opinion, it is a paltry device, a very mean art.â
âUndoubtedly,â replied Darcy, to whom this remark was chiefly addressed, âthere is meanness in all the arts which ladies sometimes condescend to employ for captivation. Whatever bears affinity to cunning is despicable.â
But back to Caroline. I don't think Caroline fits the modern definition because she does not set herself apart by claiming to be different from other women, her argument seems to be more that she's An Ideal Woman. Her criticism of Elizabeth's muddy walk is, "I, a proper woman, would never do that (neither would your well-mannered sister)." She tries to demonstrate that she's more elegant than Elizabeth by walking around the room together. We know that she has a fancy education and many accomplishments. We never see her play herself off as a tomboy or engage in male activities.
Mary Bennet is probably the strongest candidate for a "pick me" girl:
To this, Mary very gravely replied, âFar be it from me, my dear sister, to depreciate such pleasures. They would doubtless be congenial with the generality of female minds. But I confess they would have no charms for me. I should infinitely prefer a book.â (emphasis author's)
but she also doesn't have that aspect that engages in male pursuits.
Some people accuse Elizabeth Bennet of being a "pick me" girl because of this quote:
âMy beauty you had early withstood, and as for my mannersâmy behaviour to you was at least always bordering on the uncivil, and I never spoke to you without rather wishing to give you pain than not. Now, be sincere; did you admire me for my impertinence?â
âFor the liveliness of your mind I did.â
âYou may as well call it impertinence at once. It was very little less. The fact is, that you were sick of civility, of deference, of officious attention. You were disgusted with the women who were always speaking, and looking, and thinking for your approbation alone. I roused and interested you, because I was so unlike them. Had you not been really amiable you would have hated me for it: but in spite of the pains you took to disguise yourself, your feelings were always noble and just; and in your heart you thoroughly despised the persons who so assiduously courted you.
However, Elizabeth was not trying to attract Darcy at all, she was borderline rude and acted unlike other girls because she genuinely disliked him. This was not a tactic.
Therefore, Pride & Prejudice contains zero "pick me" girls!
Another thing about the Elizabeth quote mentioned here: sheâs not congratulating herself for being different from other women who tried to flatter Darcy. Sheâs being comically self-deprecating. Sheâs saying, âAdmit it, Darcy: I was rude. You only liked it because you were sick of other women trying to suck up to you. If you were a lesser man, you would have hated me for it.â
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personally I DONT think Jane Austen intended for Mr. Bennet to be paying Mrs. Bennet a genuine compliment when he said she was as beautiful as any of their daughters. He seems kind of incapable of paying his wife a real compliment.
BUT
I still think we should have MILF Mrs. Bennet. I think everyone should be like âdamnâ when they see her and then she opens her mouth and theyâre like âohâ. I want them to go through the same process Mr. Bennet did, in a much shorter time frame.
I think Mr. Bennet is saying that Mrs. Bennet is still beautiful, but for him that wouldn't be a compliment. In his perspective, her beauty ruined his life. So it's probably like he's saying, "Mr. Bingley better watch out, your beauty STILL might tempt him into the worst marriage ever unfortunately."
and totally yes to the second statement. But I want her to also have a very sexy voice, that you quickly realize is spouting nonsense.
Yes to all of this! In some future adaptation, letâs have a youngish Mrs. Bennet (because honestly, if she married as young as Elizabeth does, she would be 44 or 45, and if she married as young as Lydia does, she would be just 39 or 40!), who may be slightly overweight (from giving birth five times), but otherwise is still stunning, so we see where Mr. Bennetâs mistake came from.
For that matter, give us a Mr. Bennet no older than 50, to reinforce that he married his wife out of blind youthful infatuation, and make him good-looking too, to reinforce that it was mutual. (Although of course the future Mrs. Bennet also had the motive of social climbing.)
personally I DONT think Jane Austen intended for Mr. Bennet to be paying Mrs. Bennet a genuine compliment when he said she was as beautiful as any of their daughters. He seems kind of incapable of paying his wife a real compliment.
BUT
I still think we should have MILF Mrs. Bennet. I think everyone should be like âdamnâ when they see her and then she opens her mouth and theyâre like âohâ. I want them to go through the same process Mr. Bennet did, in a much shorter time frame.
I think Mr. Bennet is saying that Mrs. Bennet is still beautiful, but for him that wouldn't be a compliment. In his perspective, her beauty ruined his life. So it's probably like he's saying, "Mr. Bingley better watch out, your beauty STILL might tempt him into the worst marriage ever unfortunately."
and totally yes to the second statement. But I want her to also have a very sexy voice, that you quickly realize is spouting nonsense.
I know that during the regency era, propriety required a waiting period to get engaged/married when one was in mourning for a deceased husband or wife (a year, I think?), but was a waiting period also expected when the deceased was a parent or sibling? Did the circumstances matter? What if a parent or sibling died shortly before a wedding when the banns had already been read? Or after the engagement announcement but before the banns had been read? ďżź
In short, yes, a morning period followed the death of a parent, sibling, national figure, or distant relation.
In Jane Austen's novels, we see that in Sense & Sensibility, the Dashwoods have a six month time jump between when their father dies and the story begins. This is likely to account for the mourning period, where the family was mostly at home together and not engaging much socially. When they move to Barton Cottage, it seems that going out and dancing is now fine.
In Persuasion, Elizabeth Elliot wears ribbons of mourning for Mr. Elliot's wife, despite them only being distant cousins. Mr. Elliot himself is wearing morning when Anne meets him in Lyme and in Bath (Both master and man being in mourning)
âMy dear Mrs Smith, Mr Elliotâs wife has not been dead much above half a year. He ought not to be supposed to be paying his addresses to any one.â
Here is what I think about your more specific questions, if a woman's guardian died right before her wedding, it might just go ahead so that she could be under the protection of her husband, especially if her next nearest relations were a long way off. If a man's parent died, there would be less reason to move ahead and they may wait. Honouring your mother and father is an important Biblical commandment and most people during the Regency were Christians, so this isn't just a social custom, it was also a religious one.
So I think there would be no hard and fast rule, it probably depended on the exact circumstances surrounding the death and marriage. If the marriage was something the parent wanted to see before they died for example.
Anyway, here is a good summary of mourning periods, though it doesn't fully answer your questions:
Mourning customs in the Regency Era were less rigid than in Victorian England. The excessively strict mourning rules we often encounter in h
It's so funny to me how people mock Caroline Bingley's social position while forgetting that if Caroline is so lowly and tainted by trade, her brother Charles would be too. If Caroline was unworthy of marrying Darcy (she isn't) than Darcy would not be staying at Charles's rented estate. "But friendship!" Please read Emma. Mr. Knightley might esteem Robert Martin, but he would never dine with him. He would never marry Robert Martin's sister. When Harriet marries Robert Martin, Emma and Harriet's friendship dies and becomes a relationship of distant respect.
In the upper classes of the Regency era, your friends were people you could theoretically marry. You visited people you could marry. Darcy wants his sister to marry Charles and that means it's possible for him to marry Caroline. You cannot have Darcy and Bingley as close friends unless they were close enough in social status for their families to intermarry. Caroline can't be disgusting trade trash if Charles is a particular friend. You cannot have it both ways.
I am incredibly hesitant to recommend any unfinished series to anyone, especially as I have never seen you discuss webcomics, but I want to put Miss Pendleton on your radar. It's a very sweet period romdram set in the Regency about a woman named Laura Pendleton who, due to the circumstances of her birth, struggles to find her place in the upperclass. She makes her way for a while by matchmaking, and in this way befriends Ian Dalton, a somewhat reclusive and, of course, vastly wealthy gentleman whose friend is interested in someone she knows.
Typically historically-inspired manhwas go off the deep end in regards to plot for the sake of drama, but the author and the artist of this series both clearly seem to love the source inspiration, and as far as I can tell stay as accurate as they can to the ideas, visuals, and trials for a woman of that era. It's also just incredibly pretty. I would love to know what you think of it, if you do read it.
I have discussed webcomics/manhwas! I do read them. It's only 30 chapters so I will give it a read, but... I'm going to tear apart the historical accuracy so um, don't look below if you don't want to read that
I read the first 3 chapters and the style is very... eclectic? Miss Pendleton's hair is worn low and in a snood/decorative hairnet, which is more 1860 than Regency, even this example I could find of a beaded hairnet in the early 1800s is worn high, not on the neck:
1860s hair is more similar:
Some of the silhouettes give me vibes of the early 1900s, which is similar to the Regency silhouette to be fair but there are differences. This, the outdoors wear is so 1910 and not 1810:
Women wore high necked pelisses, not what looks like almost a male cravat and a low collar. That is 1900s, not 1800s.
Where did the empire waist even go??? This is very very 1900s
The men aren't wearing their coats, they love to show baggy sleeves in manhwas I've noticed... oh good, there is a coat.
Miss Pendleton cannot be a chaperone! She's unmarried! I mean I think an unmarried sister could chaperone informally for her sister or something (Jane Fairfax did for her friend), but formally? Every chaperone I've ever seen is a married woman or widowed.
Also, this:
Sorry, self-made men were not in vogue for the upper classes. Old money was where it's at (yes, I located the webnovel for this quote, it's 140 chapters + extras! I wonder if all of that will be made into a manhwa). So this is not the most eligible bachelor. He had to work for that, ew.
Anyway, I'll still see how it goes. I don't really mind the mixing of historical fashions in manhwas because they always look pretty so whatever.
Edit: A TYPEWRITER! Not until the 1860s. When is this set?
Also, 25 is not the age of spinsterhood, more like 35. In Regency England at least.
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Sappy do you remember what the bad take about Frankenstein and Mary Shelley was please spill
found the post. to be fair to them. not the most egregious thing said on this post, but they did endorse the rest of it so.
ignoring "horny frat boys" being an insane way to describe percy, byron, and polidori, not to mention poor fucking claire lmao. theres a pervasive issue of people really wanting mary shelley's life and career to be a story of a woman being greatly underestimated and silenced by her (male) peers but persevering nonetheless and this idea is generally pushed in popular culture and by some ill informed biographers to the point that it is just no longer reflective of her actual experiences. i think people forget a lot that mary shelley existed in radical circles that, while not devoid of misogyny, had moved past the idea that women shouldn't have opinions and be writing and have lives outside of their relationships with men and who certainly were not discouraging her from pursuing a career in writing. she was deeply admired for being the daughter of wollstonecraft and godwin and then as a writer in her own right, and i think its sad that this idea that she was discouraged from pursuing writing by the men in her life, especially by her husband, is so pervasive because one of the most interesting things about her social group to me is the creative relationships built among them. people joke a lot that percy shelley is just remembered as the wife of the author of frankenstien as a diss on him but everything he is on record saying about her work implies that he would be fucking honored. they had a deep creative partnership and mutual admiration for one another's work that was much stronger than even their romantic relationship and its deeply frustrating how that is often disregarded and put down because people are so fixated on this stereotype of how they think 19th century women should exist that they dont let themselves engage with what her life was actually like.
also i dont even fucking like polidori but why are we acting like he didn't as part of this competition LITERALLY invent the modern vampire. like hello.
this post has been popping up in my notes again and yet still nobody seems to have noticed that i accidentally referred to percy shelley as mary shelleyâs wife
It was not without some difficulty, that they there found a house, which could afford shelter for themselves and their horses; and Emily desired they might not rest longer than was necessary for refreshment. Her appearance excited some surprise, for she was without a hat, having had time only to throw on her veil before she left the castle, a circumstance, that compelled her to regret again the want of money, without which it was impossible to procure this necessary article of dress.
The Mysteries of Udolpho, Ann Radcliffe, published in 1794
Emily is fleeing from a castle under threat of being married off against her will with a man who will be imprisoned if caught and she is trying to procure a hat because apparently wearing a hat outdoors is really that important or her lack of a hat will give her away as a fugitive.
Please modern period drama makers, I beg of you, PUT THE HATS ON THE CHARACTERS. It was apparently quite freaking important for them to wear hats!
In the comments section on a recent YouTube video about Pride and Prejudice, I accidentally got into a small debate with someone about just why Elizabeth is so upset by Charlotte's choice to marry Mr. Collins.
I made some remarks based on this post, about how marriage for a woman in that era wasn't just about choosing a partner, but about choosing the master of your life, both legally and spiritually, whom you would be expected to obey. So choosing a man whom you didn't respect, and who obviously wasn't worthy of respect, was a much bigger deal than just "He'll never make you happy."
But another commentator disagreed with me, pointing out that mercenary marriages with no thought of love or respect took place all the time in the Regency era. In their point of view, Elizabeth is just upset that her best friend doesn't find Mr. Collins as repulsive as she does herself.
That made me think of how @bethanydelleman has complained that the adaptations almost always portray Mr. Collins as older and more physically off-putting than the character in the book, who is a young man (younger than Charlotte, in fact) and who is only ridiculous in personality, not in looks. This creates the sense that Elizabeth's objection to marrying him, and to Charlotte marrying him, is more visceral and less objective than Austen meant it to be.
I wonder if that other commentator on YouTube was thinking mainly of the adaptations, because "Elizabeth is upset that Charlotte doesn't find Mr. Collins as repulsive as she does" sounds like a very visceral interpretation of her feelings.
But either way, I still don't think I agree. To me, it seems that what upsets Elizabeth is that Charlotte does find Mr. Collins just as obnoxious, stupid, and unworthy of respect as Elizabeth does, but chooses to marry him anyway.
I totally agree. Elizabeth knows and respects Charlotte (prior to this decision) and must see Charlotte as intelligent or else I really don't think they would be close friends. Elizabeth is upset because she knows that Charlotte can see Mr. Collins's faults and yet she married him anyway.
I think there is something so significant about Elizabeth thinking that Darcy circumvented a will to screw over Wickham in Pride & Prejudice because that is a legal document. The thing that protects married women in the gentry is also a legal document: the wedding articles, a prenuptial agreement that grants women an allowance (pin money) and money after their husband dies (jointure).
âAnd of your infliction,â cried Elizabeth, with energy; âYou have reduced him to his present state of povertyâcomparative poverty. You have withheld the advantages which you must know to have been designed for him. You have deprived the best years of his life of that independence which was no less his due than his desert. You have done all this! and yet you can treat the mention of his misfortunes with contempt and ridicule.â
Why did Austen choose to make the issue between Wickham and Darcy an inheritance? I think for the same reason that character and morals are emphasized so much in her novels. A woman is putting her life in the hands of her husband, she needs to know that he will properly take care of her. She needs to know that he won't circumvent the legal documents designed to protect her. And especially in this match, where Mr. Darcy holds so much more influence and wealth than Elizabeth's father, his reputation, character, and past dealings are everything.
âLizzy,â said her father, âI have given him my consent. He is the kind of man, indeed, to whom I should never dare refuse anything, which he condescended to ask." (Mr. Bennet is endlessly sarcastic, but he's pretty sincere in this scene so I believe him here)
If Darcy could do something so cruel to Wickham, his father's favourite, what could he do to Elizabeth, if one day all of his objections to their marriage overwhelmed his love?
#this is a really good point#pride and prejudice#Elizabeth does misinterpret Darcyâs character based on lies and what she wants to be true based off of first impressions#but she is smart and a realist enough to understand the implications of a potential husband#a) having a bad or untrustworthy character towards his dependents#and b) not having respect for the legal process protecting a weaker party#I think of all Austen heroines Elizabeth may be the most aware of how marriage would put her in a dependent position#but she isnât the kind of person to ruminate on it#she sees proof#she makes a judgement#and that judgement is based in the knowledge that if she voluntarily puts herself in a dependent position under someone who#a) doesnât take care of her#or b) doesnât respect her#she is shit out of luck#there is no changing that decision#she saw that in her own parents marriage and even saw what is arguably the best example of how things go when they donât work out#her parents are stuck together and they shouldnât be#but for all that her dad treats her mom like an amusing housepet#he doesnât cheat on her#he never fails to support her and give her money and authority over the household#and for all Mr Bennetâs many flaws#I think Elizabeth is aware that a lot of men are not and would not be as good as her father when they donât respect their wives#for a given value of good#Darcy has so much more power influence and wealth than Mr Bennet#that if he was an angry or an unjust man as Elizabeth thinks#and goes into the marriage already not respecting Elizabethâs family and background#WHICH HE FOREGROUNDS IN HIS PROPOSAL#then how long until he stops respecting her?#how long until he ignores what legal rights she has and fucks her over? via @amarguerite
Hallmark should make more period drama adaptations. No one expects anything out of Hallmark, so instead of all the discourse being about how it butchers the book, history, or costumes, people can be surprised and delighted by the things it gets right.
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I think there is something so significant about Elizabeth thinking that Darcy circumvented a will to screw over Wickham in Pride & Prejudice because that is a legal document. The thing that protects married women in the gentry is also a legal document: the wedding articles, a prenuptial agreement that grants women an allowance (pin money) and money after their husband dies (jointure).
âAnd of your infliction,â cried Elizabeth, with energy; âYou have reduced him to his present state of povertyâcomparative poverty. You have withheld the advantages which you must know to have been designed for him. You have deprived the best years of his life of that independence which was no less his due than his desert. You have done all this! and yet you can treat the mention of his misfortunes with contempt and ridicule.â
Why did Austen choose to make the issue between Wickham and Darcy an inheritance? I think for the same reason that character and morals are emphasized so much in her novels. A woman is putting her life in the hands of her husband, she needs to know that he will properly take care of her. She needs to know that he won't circumvent the legal documents designed to protect her. And especially in this match, where Mr. Darcy holds so much more influence and wealth than Elizabeth's father, his reputation, character, and past dealings are everything.
âLizzy,â said her father, âI have given him my consent. He is the kind of man, indeed, to whom I should never dare refuse anything, which he condescended to ask." (Mr. Bennet is endlessly sarcastic, but he's pretty sincere in this scene so I believe him here)
If Darcy could do something so cruel to Wickham, his father's favourite, what could he do to Elizabeth, if one day all of his objections to their marriage overwhelmed his love?
obsessed with the fact that howl movingcastle, like, is the ideal portal fantasy protagonist. he's a welsh rugby-playing grad student who enters a magical world where he discovers he's a wildly powerful wizard. there's an evil witch out to get him and the king needs his help and there's a curse catching up with him. he has a magical creature sidekick and an orphan apprentice and a mentor who gets killed by the evil witch halfway through and a love interest under a terrible curse. the story is BEGGING for him to be the main character. and he's just like. no <3.