Thoughs on Mace Tyrell? I undertand that the show really cemented his image as a foolish lord, but I can't avoid to feel a little of cringe when someone claims that the Tyrells are a matriachal family and that Olenna easily manages his son like a puppet. In the books Olenna complaing that Mace is always "tut-tut" at her and the fact that he have managed to change so easily from a king to another without facing mayor consequences to his family makes me question how much of a oaf he's truly.
Hi, thanks for the question. To be honest, I donāt have a clear answer. Iāve thought about it many times.
TLDR; Olenna not liking Mace is a combination of family relationships and perhaps polital tactics. Mace is certainly not a puppet nor a complete fool. But he isnāt the smartest either, Iād say he is about average and certainly has some flaws.
Long text (sorry, if brevityās the soul of wit, I donāt have it)
I believe itās a good case of a pair of egoās bumping against each other, the older generation looking down on the next, Olenna being unsatisfied that her child doesnāt exactly act as she would, and some truth.
Olenna sees herself as a very clever cunning woman, and she is, undoubtedly, but bookwise we have awfully little to stave that as we know little of what she has achieved. What we do know is that Olenna is very much involved in marriage politics, she claims to have boycotted a marriage to Daeron Targaryen, and was very involved in Margaeryās engagement to Joffrey by talking it over with Littlefinger and Sansa. And like many old women she loves to stick her nose into everything. So I do believe she tries to exercise as much influence as she can. She also arranged (it's unclear at what age her husband died) the marriages between her children en some of the greatest and oldest houses in the Reach (Redwyne, Hightower, Fossoway)
Secondly, an often used technique to get people to talk, is to start critiquing people. Once you start talking trash about somebody, people are quick to jump in. Olenna complaining about her family members might be a way to see who agrees, and is thus against her family. Itās Westeros, Family backstabbing is a sport there so most would not look for an ulterior motive when someone starts trash talking their family. Secondly, Littlefinger and Doran Martell both believe it can be beneficial to be perceived as weak and stupid. Perhaps she tries to get people to underestimate Mace by insulting him and getting to hear the genuine frustrations people have about him. This is however, speculation. Olenna is probably no master pupeteer. A pupeteer is someone who exercises control over someone. Olenna constantly complains about Mace and calls him dumb. Personally, when I call people dumb, nine times out of ten it is because I donāt agree with their decisions. Mace obviously has no problem ignoring his mother, otherwise she wouldnāt be as annoyed. Olenna might influence some decisions, but she has no full power over Mace.
Next as to whether Mace, who clearly makes his own decisions from time to time, is oafish. What do we actually know? Heās not the best military tactician. Itās been pointed out that the military succeses he did have, were because of Randyll Tarly, Kevan Lannister believes that with Tywin dead, no one is better suited to lead an army than Randyll. Not Mace, not Jaime, but Randyll. Randyll was also the real hero of the ONLY battle we know Mace took part in, and Mace totally stole the credit for the victory. That doesnāt make Mace an oaf, but he is at least arrogant and silly for claiming military victories and pretending heās good at war. Mace is also proud of his siege of Storm's End during the rebellion. Now, I have seen on certain fora that it could have been a deliberate move by Mace. By dragging out the siege he didnāt kill lords of other houses (which would make post-war diplomacy for the Tyrells hard or could potentially result in revenge plots if the war turned out in the favour of Robert, and that was the case), nor could he be blamed of abandoning the Targaryen cause. Keeping the siege also meant he didnāt lose his men in war, didnāt lose face nor was branded a coward by not doing anything. Mace also had heirs to spare by the time of the Rebellion, so it's not like he couldn't ride out in battle like so many other lords because he had to protect his family's future. I reason heās at least a bit of a coward who wasnāt willing to get hurt. He was deliberately avoiding battle because he KNEW he wasnāt good at it. So +1 for his knowledge of self and avoiding situations that would have outed his weaknesses, but a great military mastermind? Nope.
Maceās "Always side with the winning teamā approach has kept the Reach safe from most harm in Westeros. Which meant the Reach was never punished by a ruling king, this must have been pretty great in the eye of his regional lords. His politics have kept the Reach at least stable, but was that deliberate? Or was it just a coincidence that him jumping ship benefitted the other lords? But is Mace a good ruler of the Reach? Well, the only thing we know he did for the reach was marry a Hightower. But personally, I believe his marriage was decided upon by his parents. Almost all marriages in Westeros are. But it is interesting to me that the Tyrells almost always marry within the Reach, and almost always to one of the houses that are supposed to hail from Garth Greenhandās children. If all your high families are interwoven, itās hard for them to take up arms against you. On the other hand, a need for intermarriage could also point towards a fear of the other noble houses in the Reach.
But tbh I don't think Mace cares for the Reach or for Highgarden, as far as we know he only ever cared about his standing in King's Landing. For starters: Mace didn't have to be in KL, he could have sent just his sons, daughter, wive and mother. Instead, he left the Reach in the hands of his son. The Western coasts have been attacked by Ironborn for months and what does Mace do? Nothing. The Shields are taken? Nothing. Also, given how stressed Loras is about needing to sail to the Shields after they were attacked, and given Loras rashly attacked Dragonstone, I believe Mace didnāt leave enough soldiers within the Reach so it could protect itself. Otherwise Loras wouldnāt be so desperate to go there with his men. It would also explain why Willas didn't do anything
Alright, but now for his Kingās Landing Politics:
- He locked down the Rose Road, leading to riots and starvation in Kingās Landing. A great move to apply pressure on the council, and he kept the pressure on until he had a sweet deal in regards to marrying Margaery to Joffrey.
- He doesnāt do anything as master of ships
- He does want more positions for the Reach on the small council but doesnāt get these in AFFC. he doesnāt āwinā them either, he just manages to get them because Cersei screwed herself by letting the Faith arrest Margaery. Now that Mace is Hand of the King, Tarly justiciar and Redwyne Lord Admiral he has all positions he wants. But what has he decided? What did they do? What was their plan with those posts? It isnāt clear
- Mace was laying siege to Stormās End and could have prevented Aegon/young Griff from taking it. But the second he heard Margaery was arrested he came to Kingās Landing with his full military force, not even leaving some troops behind that couldāve kept up the siege against the few men Stannis had left behind. Because of it, the siege was ruined, andĀ Griff managed to take it (or so we hear in the released WoW chapters). Thatās just straight dumb-assery, he could have used his men wiser. And he wasnāt just laying siege for Cersei's sake, the Reach is nearby Storm's End, he risked his own territory. And what was he even going to do with the soldiers he marched up to KL? Lay siege to KL? Really? Good luck boy, to succesfully take KL you need ships, and the Redwyne ships weren't anywhere near him.
- Mace is risking all the family wealth for his political greed: It is known the Iron Throne has huge debts and still he wants his cousin Garth The Gross as Lord Treasurer. As father of the queen, and as hand, he was already expected to cough up for the throne. if the throne goes bankrupt, and the throne has to start demanding money from all lords and smallfolk in winter... shit isnāt going to be pretty. It was already going to be bad. But to have the main responsible for the money be your own family, queen, hand and treasurer? The Tyrells are doing good but thatās a ticket to bankrupcy. He wants power so bad itās going to screw him over.
- Winter is coming and he isnāt worried at all (and thatās a thing I blame every player of the game of thrones for).
So all by all Mace isnāt blatantly stupid. He can be diplomatic and courtly, and knows the game of āgive and takeā politics better than say Stannis or Ned. He can also lie easily. He also knows how to exercise image control, heās called the fat flower by his mother and is despised and mistrusted by Cersei but given that he has no real military victories to his name and has done nothing but switch sides for over twenty years, his reputation could be so much worse, yet it isnāt. But he is at least a bit negligent of the Reach, is power hungry, doesnāt think long term, has weak military skills, canāt think clearly in times of crisis (like Margaeryās arrest) and his moves are just plain predictable at this point.
Iād also say much of his "winsā relied on luck: Margaery becoming queen was partially up to luck and circumstance. If Ned had been succesful in telling Robert about the twincest, then Margaery could have become Robertās queen as Renly suggested. But the Tyrells didn't do anything to help Ned so the Tyrells werenāt working towards it. It was only after Robert died that Margaery married Renly (second attempt at making her a queen), then they brokered a deal with the Lannisters after they locked down the rose road (attempt 3 to get margaery on the iron throne) , so on. Mace also has four adult children, and only one of them was married by the start of the books. Why didnāt he marry them to influential houses? Or at least promise them? How old were they supposed to get before he would start marrying them? Mace wanted more Reach men on the small council but once again he did nothing to accomplish this except complain when Cersei ignored his wish. Complaining isnāt scheming. It was only because Cersei screwed herself by arresting Margaery that she was stripped of her position of power and Mace and his friends gained their positions. Because contrary to Cersei, Kevan is a sane person who knows the Lannisters must treasure the allies they have.
Of course, we could still learn a lot more about the Tyrells. We might learn a lot more in the upcoming (hopefully) books. I could be very wrong :)