#time loop theory

gonna get straight to the point here.

i'm rewatching s1 (finally got my partner to watch the show) and i made two key connections.

the first: pizza one. and i hate that we can't call this pizzagate because of obvious reasons so maybe just... pizzaonefiles? maybe it's a nothingburger and doesn't need a name.

this is from the first scene in season 1. there's a box from pizza one. dustin takes a slice up to nancy! pepperoni and sausage!

and here's the same box in the season 5 epilogue. final scene. very obviously where we can see it, too.

and i know you're probably thinking: cute parallel! takes us right back to the beginning! the whole thing comes full circle.

YEAH. IT DOES TAKE US RIGHT BACK TO THE BEGINNING.

OF THE WHOLE SHOW.

in the end, the kids start their own campaign. one kid asks derek if he farted because it smells bad. and he says he didn't-- it's just old pizza.

old pizza.

pizza from season 1.

you see, the time loop resets to the moment that mike leaves the basement in season 1 when he leaves in season 5. pizza smells bad because it's literally the same pizza sitting there in season 1, 5 years earlier. the timelines blur at the end of the loop.

this would also explain how el recognizes will in the science bowl photo in episode 2:

and also why she takes the party to will's house in the rightside up in episode 3:

i never really understood initially (like, ten years ago initially) why she took them there because she can only find people via the void. to the viewer, it seems fairly obvious that will is there because joyce has just been communicating with him. but el shouldn't know that yet.

she also knew immediately that will was taken into the upside down, illustrating that to the party via the game board and the figurines.

we don't see any reference to the void until later in the season through flashbacks with the deprivation tank / spying on the russians. the only thing we know in episode three is that:

el has powers consistent with telekinesis

she knows where will is

mike asks her multiple times in episode 2 if she saw will on mirkwood and that's how she recognizes him. he's correct, in a way, but he's off by one day. they find el on nov. 7th.

she did see him on mirkwood when he fell off his bike on nov. 6th. she followed him to his house and opened the door-- not to aid the demogorgon/vecna as some have suggested, but to help him flee.

he ends up running out the back of the house, though, before we ever see the demogorgon walk through the door. the demogorgon doesn't even come through the door. it's already in the back of the shed.

el isn't fast/powerful enough to keep him from getting taken. will's taken, and she sees him get taken, and that's his last known location in her mind.

through successive time loops, she manages to gather all of this information-- knowledge of the upside down, will's last known location, etc. but is never actually able to keep him from getting taken.

nor is she able to stop brenner from opening the gate.

but if she was able to understand where everything started-- by going into henry's memories alongside will as she does in the finale-- she would find that in order to close the gates-- and the loop-- she'd need to go back all the way to 1947 when henry touches the stone.

now, with the information she has regarding henry, she can actually go back and stop it all from happening.

it would also explain so many back to the future references and other inconsistencies that result from a time loop-- characters with the same name (patrick, tina, chrissy), forgetting important dates, etc.

idk. thoughts? it's got some holes, but i think it's pretty interesting. it all hinges on her having known where will was in the rightside up.

Let me dream one last time that there is a time loop and every time everybody dies, and that the answer to this neverending story is Will and Mike love.

When the flow of sand stops (when you're running out of time) you flip the hourglass. You turn it upside down to restart the flow of the sand.

In S5, it's always Mike that says He's flipped! It flipped! I see it as a possible hint that he is the one connected to the cycle being reset (because he's always late?)

And speaking of sand. Max complains about sand, and that scene is also connected to Mike. The M marks the spot.

The Right Side Up that becomes the Upside Down.

The Duffers confirmed in an interview that they always knew that the UD was a wormhole, and that they wanted it to have a hourglass shape.

The Mind Flayer, the entity of the Abyss, was shaped by Henry as a black widow, the spider with a red hourglass marking.

And Henry turned back the clock, saying he could make his own rules.

Here is a document for what is presumably Chrissy Cunningham’s first visit to the councillor’s office immediately after starting Hawkins High. I don’t find it suspicious that she needed counselling so early as Vecna specifically targeted people with pre-existing trauma.

What I do find strange is the date. As with many other in-show (and expanded universe) documents, the day doesn’t match with the date. In 1982, September 19th was on a Sunday, not a Wednesday.

However, September 19th coincided with a Wednesday in both 1984 and 1990.

I was willing to not read too deep into it.

However!

It happened again! Here is a document for an impromptu visit to the councillor’s office by Max on March 12th 1986.

March 12th was a Wednesday in 1986, not a Monday. However, again, it was a Monday in 1984 and 1990.

Note: both of these incorrect dates involve Wednesday

As others have pointed out, her headaches should not have started so early. The 12th was an entire nine days before season 4 even began.

This document is vague enough to be irritating. It is difficult to ascertain whether or not this is the ‘impromptu visit’ that occurred during s4 (at Kelley’s house) or not. Considering Max’s discomfort going into her office at all in the first episode (March 21st), I’m willing to guess that it may be some alternate timeline of season 4. I don’t believe that she would have intentionally set up an extra session a week before.

“Possible causes of student’s recurring nightmares addressed” may be in reference to Chrissy’s death, which they discussed when Max was distracting her. It’s possible that the wording is intentionally vague in order to not directly contradict Chrissy’s canonical death date (as Chrissy was also one of the main subjects of this website).

I think that the fact that Chrissy is one of the subjects of the files may also be quite revealing. Season 4 may have been a significant shift for the Stranger Things timeline.

Why do these dates indicate 1984/1990 rather than 1986?

Due to the fact that these files are specifically stated to have been made between the years of 1983 and 1987, I’m leaning more towards 1984 being the year that they are indicating (though 90sgate is alive and well). I don’t know why both of these dates are leading us towards this year, though I have some theories.

It’s possible that these conversations actually occurred in 1984, though far less likely. Whilst it is possible that Miss Kelley may work for both the Middle and High school, Max only arrived at Hawkins in autumn/fall of 1984 meaning that she was still in California in March.

Though with all of the timeline tomfoolery, who’s to say when anything truly happened? Something that supports this theory is the line “past trauma involving her brother, Billy”. No mention of his death or her grief of him. Surely a councillor wouldn’t shy away from these terms? No “the loss of her brother/her brother’s recent death” or “her late brother, Billy”. It is honestly possible that she could have needed therapy for his erratic behaviour/violence/drug use/drinking before his death, anyway. We don’t know when Chrissy’s mother’s emotional abuse or her disordered eating began, so it is possible that she began freshman year with these notes on her file already.

That being said, my personal theory is less clearly defined. 1984 was a significant year for Stranger Things. The Mindflayer broke into Hawkins through Will; Max arrived in Hawkins; El closed the mother gate after finding Kali; Starcourt mall may have began construction or planning.

Most significantly for many people’s theories, 1984 involved the Snowball where we first saw the Mindflayer stalking the party and Max’s memory was corrupted in season 4.

Honestly, 1984 could be pointing to any one of these events. Kali and her illusionary powers; Will being flayed and an illusionist; the Russians in Starcourt (with an American Spy [Murray?!] as indicated in these files)… The possibilities are endless.

ADD-ON:

I’m not someone who likes storylines about time. Alternative timelines, time travel & time loops. I feel like more often than not, they just mess up everything the story has already established in order the shake up the story or make it seem more intricate when in actuality it just becomes convoluted.

Messing with the time in a story is such a delicate process in my opinion. & though I do put a lot more trust in the tkdb writers than most other video game writers (one reason tkdb became one of my BIGGEST special interests ever was just because I was so surprised by how good the writing was), however, my distain for these story tropes due to other writers failing so miserably at them makes me wish they wouldn’t do it. Do I think they could pull it off? Probably. But there are other ways.

I’ve seen some fans think that the story is going to end soon, that the end game is MC getting rid of her curse therefore it has to end when her time is up. But I don’t think so myself. Yet I do not want the time loop to actually happen.

On the top of my head I can think of so many ways the writer can solve the issue (though these ideas varies in quality).

They could cure her curse but they need/want to keep her due to Hera’s Snakes/Sage’s Ring.

Hera’s Snakes/Sage’s Ring could complicate the transformation process. Maybe making it so she only transforms halfway/she gets classified as a “humanoid anomaly” & therefore can’t leave Darkwick.

Maybe MC’s line about saying if she could make a pact with a demon she would tell them to cure her curse, was foreshadowing to MC becoming a ghoul herself. & because of that she isn’t allowed to leave Darkwick.

There is just way too much stuff that we haven’t gotten a conclusion to. Too many lose ends that hasn’t been tied together properly. & because of this I also think it would be better for the story if they made it move forward instead of repeating in a loop.

We still haven’t seen the full corruption of Darkwick & the Institute, we don’t know all the details about The Clash, we haven’t seen the full extent of all of the ghouls backstories, haven’t heard all of their wishes to the demons. We don’t know who the spy is, haven’t seen the end of so many character arcs & we haven’t gotten a conclusion to the Champions Prophecy yet. There is so much we don’t know yet! & there is no way, writers with the skills for storytelling like the tkdb writers will just speed-run giving us all the answers because they “have” to end the story when MC gets cured.

There is also what Edward said about the world coming to an end soon, I don’t think that will happen in just two months. & the third years getting their internships at the Institute would open up so many possibilities for interesting story telling. I refuse to believe they will let it end so early or let the story we’ve already experienced go through a loop. I feel like it has to continue & there are ways to make that happen.

(Mini theory time: if we were to believe that MC gets cured by making a pact with a demon & becoming a ghoul, we could connect that to the Champions Prophecy. Because the prophecy states “The whisper of the new moon shall lead the champion to the Academy on the solitary isle. So long as the champion resides there, the world shall be sheltered from profound tragedy…” it’s not plural, it’s not champions, it’s champion. What if MC becomes that champion?)

Requesting some clearing up!

Was this ever actually said? 🤨 (mainly Malleus' foreboding dialogue, I don't remember him saying anything about fictional characters.. An ending where it's just a dream would suck, wouldn't it? I hope it doesn't end like that)