#timeline theory

Here is a document for what is presumably Chrissy Cunningham’s first visit to the councillor’s office immediately after starting Hawkins High. I don’t find it suspicious that she needed counselling so early as Vecna specifically targeted people with pre-existing trauma.

What I do find strange is the date. As with many other in-show (and expanded universe) documents, the day doesn’t match with the date. In 1982, September 19th was on a Sunday, not a Wednesday.

However, September 19th coincided with a Wednesday in both 1984 and 1990.

I was willing to not read too deep into it.

However!

It happened again! Here is a document for an impromptu visit to the councillor’s office by Max on March 12th 1986.

March 12th was a Wednesday in 1986, not a Monday. However, again, it was a Monday in 1984 and 1990.

Note: both of these incorrect dates involve Wednesday

As others have pointed out, her headaches should not have started so early. The 12th was an entire nine days before season 4 even began.

This document is vague enough to be irritating. It is difficult to ascertain whether or not this is the ‘impromptu visit’ that occurred during s4 (at Kelley’s house) or not. Considering Max’s discomfort going into her office at all in the first episode (March 21st), I’m willing to guess that it may be some alternate timeline of season 4. I don’t believe that she would have intentionally set up an extra session a week before.

“Possible causes of student’s recurring nightmares addressed” may be in reference to Chrissy’s death, which they discussed when Max was distracting her. It’s possible that the wording is intentionally vague in order to not directly contradict Chrissy’s canonical death date (as Chrissy was also one of the main subjects of this website).

I think that the fact that Chrissy is one of the subjects of the files may also be quite revealing. Season 4 may have been a significant shift for the Stranger Things timeline.

Why do these dates indicate 1984/1990 rather than 1986?

Due to the fact that these files are specifically stated to have been made between the years of 1983 and 1987, I’m leaning more towards 1984 being the year that they are indicating (though 90sgate is alive and well). I don’t know why both of these dates are leading us towards this year, though I have some theories.

It’s possible that these conversations actually occurred in 1984, though far less likely. Whilst it is possible that Miss Kelley may work for both the Middle and High school, Max only arrived at Hawkins in autumn/fall of 1984 meaning that she was still in California in March.

Though with all of the timeline tomfoolery, who’s to say when anything truly happened? Something that supports this theory is the line “past trauma involving her brother, Billy”. No mention of his death or her grief of him. Surely a councillor wouldn’t shy away from these terms? No “the loss of her brother/her brother’s recent death” or “her late brother, Billy”. It is honestly possible that she could have needed therapy for his erratic behaviour/violence/drug use/drinking before his death, anyway. We don’t know when Chrissy’s mother’s emotional abuse or her disordered eating began, so it is possible that she began freshman year with these notes on her file already.

That being said, my personal theory is less clearly defined. 1984 was a significant year for Stranger Things. The Mindflayer broke into Hawkins through Will; Max arrived in Hawkins; El closed the mother gate after finding Kali; Starcourt mall may have began construction or planning.

Most significantly for many people’s theories, 1984 involved the Snowball where we first saw the Mindflayer stalking the party and Max’s memory was corrupted in season 4.

Honestly, 1984 could be pointing to any one of these events. Kali and her illusionary powers; Will being flayed and an illusionist; the Russians in Starcourt (with an American Spy [Murray?!] as indicated in these files)… The possibilities are endless.

ADD-ON:

Beam me up, this place sucks

“Safi Loves Max, and It’s Complicated”

After finishing Life is Strange: Reunion, I realized the game threw a curveball, and instead of catching it, it hit me square in the face. That’s the best way I can describe it. I’m talking about Safi.

Safi is one of the most misunderstood characters in the game, because of her actions in the first game, with shapeshifting into people to get revenge on everyone who was involved with covering up Lucas’s plagiarism scandal, in which he stole Maya Okada’s work. Safi’s best friend. The people involved were Safi’s mom, Gwen, and Vinh. But her focus on revenge was against Lucas.

Safi, throughout Reunion, displays grief. Even within Double Exposure, she carried immense grief from finding out what her mother did. Not only did Safi lose her best friend, but her mother is a huge betrayal. Yasmin was covering up scandals, and she convinced Gwen to email the publishers to retract from publishing Safi’s poetry because some of her works revolved around her best friend, Maya Okada.

But that’s not the focus of this topic. I’m focusing on the love Safi has for Max. The way she acts around Max in Reunion, and what she says, how she says it, and what she wrote in her journal about Max.

Now, Safi said it herself, she’s suffering from intrusive thoughts, and like Chloe, she gets pulled into the “Overlight” world. Moses came up with the name for that world, so I’m going to use it.

Safi and Chloe, because of the combining of the two timelines, both of them experience their deaths as part of their memories. It became a part of them, and it even confused Chloe. Chloe keeps separating the different versions of her who experience the whole figuring out who killed Rachel, and the different experiences with Max. Loving Max.

Safi is going through the same conundrum. She has all those various experiences from the different timelines of Max killing her, and who knows how many variations of Max trying to save Safi or save Caledon. We chose the middle ground of combining all the timelines to save both Caledon and Safi.

Safi loves Max.

From everything I've seen and listened to and read, she is leaning toward being in love with Max. This goes into the territory of a unique love triangle. Because Max is her best friend. And the same situation is with Chloe and Max. They are best friends. So, this is complicated.

Safi shows signs of a bit of jealousy. During the conversation at the turtle between Max and Safi, the question was asked why Safi returned. Safi answers in a more vulnerable tone, no sarcasm:

“The sad truth is, I’m here for you.”

When Max is quiet and just looking at her, Safi gets a bit flustered about it and responds:

“Oh, don’t give me that dewy-eyed look. I can’t decide if it makes me want to kiss you or murder you.”

She hid her truth behind her usual sarcasm in that moment. I think she does want to kiss Max.

However, Safi is defensive because Max told her mother that she was on campus.

It was the same scene where Max gave her students the assignment of talking to people they find interesting and trying to take their picture. It’s also the same scene where Max chooses to set an example for her students and decides to ask the woman sitting by the tree reading, if she can take her picture.

The whole exchange between Max and the Southern-accented woman was charged. I mean, there was a playfulness to it that I read as flirting. Then I realized it was Safi and it made sense if you played Double Exposure because Safi used to sit by that same tree and read intensely. I saw that little detail, but it was the chemistry or flow that Max and the girl had. It was just too much flow for strangers. And Safi is a flirt.

I’m going to be honest, I wish we would get an inner dialogue of Safi in all those moments. I have a hunch she thinks as much about Max as Max and Chloe think about each other.

It’s no wonder when Safi reminds Max of what really happened at the Overlight world. At that moment, Max saw Chloe in the distance, and Safi accused Max of forgetting about her entirely. And that the reason for combining the timelines wasn’t for Safi, it was to save Chloe. That’s why I see Safi as acting from a place of jealousy.

I picked the dialogue that Max wanted to save them both, and she cares about both Safi and Chloe. Max is naïve and a bit selfish, but one thing is certain: she didn’t go through all those hardships in Double Exposure for Chloe; she was trying to save Safi.

Safi has also gotten caught up in grief and most likely wrapped in that jealousy, to realize Max risked herself for her. That whole frozen lake scene in Double Exposure was enough. And in it was the perfect scene to show us how Max’s powers evolved. Safi helped Max’s powers evolve.

And that brings me to what Safi wrote in her journal. The page was dedicated to Max. Her realizing Max is using her powers again. But it was also about asking the question, “What is she up to? And how Chloe is involved.” But the important part is right after that. Safi wrote a poem, and that poem is about Max.

“Taking my hand, you pulled me Out of the frozen lake Into the raging storm. You were the dashing hero. I was the damsel, saved. And I was the monster, vanquished. You rescued me from the rocks Then chained me to them. You made me feel alive, but I know I died (I did) I died”

I was stunned after reading this on stream. Poems are very personal. And this is how Safi feels about Max and how she sees her best friend.

“Out of the frozen lake, into the storm” refers to that lake scene in Double Exposure, which I talked about. “You were the dashing hero. I was the damsel, saved.” That’s how she saw Max after that scene. The choice of words, dashing hero. Damsel. I’m interpreting that as how young girls fantasize about a knight in shining armor saving the damsel in distress. She was playing at that, to describe that moment.

But imagine the feeling she must have had once you realize the context of it. Those are romanticized words. The rest is this back-and-forth frustration of how she views herself and how Max continues to rescue her, only to be trapped again. “You made me feel alive, but I know I died.”

It’s all those combined memories that are fracturing her. She even thinks the better part of herself is locked in the Overlight world. But how she talks about Max is the frustration of loving someone and being angry at them at the same time.

When Safi talks with Chloe, she says it, that Max doesn’t experience any of the consequences of messing with time and reality. Her frustration is real between those two dominating emotions of love and anger. She tells Chloe:

“I know you love Max. I love her, too. But where has that love ever gotten us? Mindfucked, chewed up. Half-dead.”

However, this all happened after Max refused to leave with Safi, when Safi begged her to leave with her and to forget about the fire and trying to save everyone. She’s desperately trying to have someone choose her for once.

After getting rejected, she tries to convince Chloe to choose her. To leave with her. And this leads them back in the Overlight world, where Chloe had to convince her not to unalive herself. Safi wanted to die.

But the scene that broke me wasn’t that; it was the scene where Safi tries to convince Max to leave with her. The desperation in her voice was palpable.

Max is trying to explain why she can’t give Safi what she wants. Wanting to save the people from the fire, because they are going to die. And she says:

“That should be enough for you.”

Safi counters desperately:

“I should be enough for you.”

She continues to plead, stuttering on her words:

“Please? I-I’ll be good. I…I won’t shapeshift, I won’t… I won’t lie. Just please… I don’t wanna be alone.”

This dialogue broke me.

Safi feels so alone.

And Max was the person she truly focused on. She was even compromising on bringing Chloe along. Meeting up with Diamond. And even bringing Moses along to try to convince Max to leave with her. Even though she tried to convince Chloe to leave with her as a last resort an effort to convince someone to choose her, all the real energy and emotion went to Max.

So, is Safi in love with Max? Probably.

But love comes in various forms. And I do think Safi’s feelings for Max are above friendship. Max is probably the person she would ride and die with. However, Safi has to realize that Max has already been doing the ride-or-die bestie thing from day one.

The story is really revolved around the love story of Max and Chloe, but Max and Safi would be an interesting one. Chloe and Safi are so alike, and they love the same woman. Max.

Love it.

So, working on this fanlore wiki (if you don't know about it, check it out here), has me considering the timeline of The Black Phone. Hear me out as I try and explain my process.

Spoilers, obviously!

TLDR Timeline:

1957: The Grabber kills Felix York, Calvin O'Keefe, and Ronnie 'Spike' Matuka Jr over a prolonged period of time at Camp Alpine Lake.

1975: Billy Showalter is kidnapped on his paper route by the Grabber, probably during the summer based on the setting of the ghost flashback. Hope Adler/Blake is also killed after discovering Billy by the Grabber, who stages her death as a suicide.

1975/76: Griffin Stagg is kidnapped, either before or after Billy.

Spring 77: Vance Hopper is kidnapped.

18 July 78: Bruce Yamada is kidnapped after a baseball game.

9 Nov 78: Robin Arenallo is kidnapped behind a convenience store.

Friday Nov 78: Finney Blake is kidnapped walking home from school.

A few disclaimers:

"Established in canon" means events that are actually depicted onscreen, or referred to with a definite date such as through title cards, or dialogue referencing a specific period of time.

e.g. "our mom died seven years ago" by Gwen in 1982, or the opening titlecard of The Black Phone (2022) establishing 'North Denver 1978'.

The Alpine Lake Murders

Established in canon: Hope's phone call to Gwen about the dead kids in 1957, and Camp Alpine Lake's closure in 1958.

Honestly, aside from the order of the victims shown to us in dream sequences, there is no evidence to suggest when each of the Alpine Lake kids was killed. The only endpoint we have is Hope's phonecall sometime in 1957, when she was having dreams of the murdered children. Thus, these murders occurred at the end of 1957 at the very latest.

On one hand, mando does mention them as if they're one singular event, and I find it hard to believe that the camp would have stayed open if the kids keep getting killed sequentially. However, I find it more compelling that it's maybe over the span over a season, or a few years. Enough to let the dread set in, but close enough that it works timeline wise. Also, we don't know exactly how much was known about these kids. Were they all considered murdered, or just missing? I know they talk about finding pieces Calvin's burnt jacket, but was that conclusive enough to denote murder instead of "death by misadventure"?

It could be like, Al does his killings over a season or two of his tenure, getting sloppier by the end and just leaving pieces behind cause fuck it. He knows that they won't check the ice-skating lake, he's gotten away with it already.

But either way, there are some weird temporal crinkles, like how no one would connect the killings to this one guy showing up, or notice they stopped when he's gone. But then again, it could just be a culmination of years of abuse for him.

I just really struggle to imagine he killed all 3 of them in one night, that's some major fucking hauling ass he has to do. Plus, even if it was spread across a few days, how would he get away with it with the camp at best worried about a lost kid, and at worst a murderer?

There is also the question of the Grabber's modus operandi.

Did he always have a thing for the slow game of stalking, then prolonging the murders over time, like he does in TBP? Or did it start as something abrupt and violent, and Al realised he needed to be more careful if he wanted to continue this as he went on? I don't think there's a right answer necessarily.

"The Grabber" Kidnappings and Murders

The more thorny canon of The Black Phone, because the flashback with Hope and Billy in Black Phone 2 (2025) retcons/changes so much!

Established in canon:

The Black Phone (2022) is set in 1978, and Black Phone 2 (2025) is set in 1982.

Billy Showalter was kidnapped around the same time as Hope's death, between 1975-6

Vance Hopper is kidnapped 'last spring', probably 1977

Bruce Yamada is kidnapped after a baseball game on July 18th

Robin Arellano is kidnapped behind a convenience store on Nov 9th

Finney Blake is kidnapped sometime in November, probably on a Friday and held captive at least over the weekend

There is VERY limited evidence about the duration of the boy's captivity in the Grabber's basement, aside from being able to infer that they were down there long enough to play the "Naughty Boy" game. I'm not even going to make any assumptions here.

We see that their ghost boy's testimony is unreliable as their memories and identity decays after death, so it's tricky to make extrapolations from their knowledge of the layout of the house, stages of the game, etc.

In contrast, the costume design and makeup of their mortal injuries are a much better narrator, as they capture a snapshot of their time of death. What's important to consider is that none of the boys show signs of prolonged captivity- such as emaciation, ragged clothes, grown out hair etc. This suggests that they may have only been kept alive for a reasonable period of days to weeks. I say this only because there is a significant deal of fanon regarding some of the boys being kept for years, and I cannot find any source backing this up.

Regarding the Grabber's MO: Doing a lil bit of research into "cooling off" periods and frequency of serial killings, there doesn't appear to be a strong casual relationship between murders increasing over time. The cooldown periods where normal life resumes can last days or years, and tends to be prolonged either by satisfaction with the previous killing (e.g. trophies) or increased risk of law enforcement. Now we have no evidence about why the Grabber kills in the intervals that he did, only that 1978 shows a distinct ramping up in killings with bruce, robin, and finney.

Interestingly, some studies show that the longest cooling off period tends to be between the 1st and 3rd murders, which would align nicely with the 3 year period we have between Billy/Griffin and Vance. Of course this doesn't account for the Alpine Lake murders, and the decades long break in between.

Onto TBP2 retcons: it places Billy's kidnapping waay before what the fandom originally expected after the first film. This shifts the whole timeline backwards, and brings into question if he or Griffin was the first victim. Whilst Max's crime board states that Billy is the 'second' missing kid, this evidence is not the most reliable (read more below), and one could argue that Hope's dreams would be triggered by the first missing kid, not the second. I honestly can't say either way, there's just not enough evidence to convince me, therefore I am putting Griffin flexibly in 1975-6 to account for before or after Billy.

But what about Max's crime board, or the missing persons posters?

Well that's tricky, as it has been pointed out by other fans that these props are not consistent with other elements of the films. For example, the newspaper clippings on Max's board for Vance Hopper state that he is the fourth victim, whilst Gwen's dialogue states that Vance went missing 'last spring' referring to 1977, before Bruce Yamada, the supposed "third victim" on July 18th 1978. As @fisticuffy said in this post , props are not the most reliable sources for canon because they are often created before the script is finalized. This is not even beginning to get into the shitstorm that is the unofficial props such as posters from influencer mailers. Those are bad, and I'm going to disregard them entirely.

In general, I prioritize dialogue and title cards as more sufficient evidence for establishing a canon because these elements are more deliberate and prominent in the films, and thus must have undergone more scrutiny than background props.

First off, the confirmed ‘hard dates and times’ we can look at to establish a broad, overall timeframe for the show:

We have Spring Broken taking place (shockingly) during Spring Break, putting it in March.

We have The Harvest Moon Festival coinciding with the actual Harvest Moon (not some Hellish equivalent, but the proper Earth moon), putting the episode on/around September 17th.

Then we have Unhappy Campers which actually notes a specific date with a poster showing that Millie’s big show takes place on July 17.

Finally we have Apology Tour taking place specifically on Halloween, aka October 31.

And now Ghostfuckers has Millie mentioning that it’s been ‘over a month’ since Blitzo and Stolas broke up, meaning either The Full Moon or Apology Tour, which puts us pretty squarely in early December as the current time of the show.

This means we are looking at a total of one year and nine-ish months between Spring Broken and Ghostfuckers.

Which in turn, given the indeterminate amount of time between the first three episodes, I’d say likely puts us at just shy of two years since the start of the show proper with Murder Family, and DEFINITELY a little over two years since Blitzo’s first night with Stolas, getting the Grimoire and the start of I.M.P.

Something that is actually further corroborated by Blitzo’s comment in The Full Moon about Stolas letting them keep the book for ‘another year’, implying that episode likely took place near around the ‘anniversary’ of Blitzo getting the Grimoire from Stolas. And I think we can all appreciate the dramatic irony/angst of Stolitz imploding almost two years to the day as their first night together.

So with a proper timeframe for the show as a whole established, what other interesting things can we glean?

Well for one, I think a couple of seemingly innocuous lines in Western Energy can actually tell us a fair bit about LOONA. Which funny enough, kind of confirms the official creator statement that she is 22, but also makes it a bit more… nuanced.

You see, Blitzo mentions in Western Energy that it’s taken him five years to get an appointment for Loona’s hellbies shot. Now obviously, we can assume that Blitzo started trying to get this appointment not too long after adopting Loona.

Combined with what we know about Loona being less than a month from turning 18 when Blitzo adopted her, this not only confirms that it’s been about five years since Loona was adopted, but also means that Western Energy actually takes place not too long before or after Loona’s birthday. Given that the next episode is Unhappy Campers, probably in the April/May/June range. And also that Loona is actually 23 at this point.

And what’s really funny about this in regards to the official statement of Loona being 22 is that, if anyone else remembers, we actually GOT that statement sometime between the releases of Ozzie’s and The Circus. Which WOULD be a point in the show when Loona IS 22.

Even though Loona would definitely be 21 at the actual start of the series, then turned 22 likely sometime between Spring Broken and C.H.E.R.U.B.S. then turned 23 sometime around Western Energy.

Admittedly I’m not sure how any of this might be actually relevant or otherwise significant aside from simply having a good idea when Loona’s birthday is, but I think it’s a fun detail nonetheless.

Now speaking of characters with confirmed ages that the fandom has become way too fixated on, let’s talk about Octavia.

Obviously, given that we are way over a year since Loo Loo Land, Octavia is DEFINITELY NOT 17 anymore. Heck, given that we’re clearly close to two years since that episode, Octavia could easily be 19 at this point. Remember that unlike Loona, Octaiva being 17 was mentioned officially before she even appeared in the show, meaning that we really HAVE to assume that she is 17 in Loo Loo Land. Other than that, the only mention we have of Octavia being 17 is in The Circus, which really only means that the present-day portion of that episode (along with Ozzie’s and Queen Bee, given that they specifically take place the night before) takes place less than a year after Loo Loo Land. Like if those episodes take place in early-mid October and Octavia’s birthday is in November, then she would be 19 at this point.*

And while we’re on the topic of Ozzie’s, Queen Bee and The Circus, ANOTHER notable detail that might be easy to forget is that Ozzie’s happens to take place on Moxxie’s and Millie’s one-year wedding anniversary. Which gets particularly interesting given what we now know from Ghostfuckers.

We know, or at least can infer, from Millie’s narration (“that year I spent getting to know your ragtag team”) that Millie joined up with Blitzo, Moxxie and Loona about a year before they formed I.M.P. Which in turn also coincided with Blitzo’s and Stolas’s reunion, given that Blitzo is shown to have the Grimoire in the flashback of the four moving into their new offices.

What makes this interesting is the fact that Moxxie and Millie seem to have been ALREADY married when Blitzo got the Grimoire and set up I.M.P. Which given, again, that Ozzie’s specifically takes place on the M&M’s one-year wedding anniversary, I think REALLY narrows down the timing of a number of events.

Like given that Ozzie’s takes place AFTER both The Harvest Moon Festival and Truthseekers, we have to assume that Moxxie’s and Millie’s wedding likewise probably happened after September.

And we know from The Full Moon taking place shortly before Halloween and the previously-discussed lines from Blitzo implying that it’s not too far off from the ‘anniversary’ of him getting the Grimoire from Stolas, that Blitzo’s and Stolas’s first night together probably happened in-or-around October.

So… putting all of these together, I think we can in fact narrow down Moxxie’s and Millie’s wedding, Bitzo’s and Stolas’s first night together AND the start of I.M.P. all to October.

Millie’s and Moxxie’s wedding, and by extension the events of Ozzie’s, Queen Bee and the present-day sections of The Circus, probably happens at the start of/early October.

Then just a few weeks, or even days, later, Blitzo tries to swipe the Grimoire and has his first night with Stolas. Heck, you want a fun theory/headcanon? What if Moxxie and Millie getting married actually spurred Blitzo into accelerating his ideas/plans for a human-assassination business and going after the Grimoire? Because he wanted to have a better business/life for Moxxie and Millie?

Which then puts the ‘moving in’ flashback from Ghostfuckers and the proper start of I.M.P. in late/end of October. I mean, given that Murder Family and a number of other episodes have released on Halloween, and given the apparent in-universe significance of the date for demons we learned about in Apology Tour, it would be rather appropriate for the Immediate Murder Professionals to have opened for business on Halloween.

And one other notable detail about Millie joining Blitzo's crew specifically a year before the proper start of I.M.P., meaning three years before the current time of the show, is that this gives us about a two year window (really more like a year and a half given Western Energy) wherein Blitzo recruited Moxxie.

Now, will any of this be actually relevant or important to the story going forward? I mean, probably not much. I imagine it's mostly just the hard-dates I mentioned at the start which establish an overall timeframe for the show that are really worth keeping in mind.

I will say that Octavia being old enough to inherit her father’s position and power does feel like a chekhov’s gun that could become important in whatever ‘Goetia Trial’ it’s looking like we’ll see in the next episode or two.

But mostly, this is just some fun analysis and ramblings.

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1. Demon's Souls, brings the Demons into the universe

2. Dark Souls Trilogy, Age of Fire, Age of Darkness, blah blah blah.

3. Elden Ring, new lands, same problems: Outer Gods being pretentious dickheads, Sekiro is happening too in the background

4. Bloodborne, Welcome To London, this time we got monsters and the Moon is being a dick now.

5. Armored Core, i know i know, not a Souls-Like but it's funny to imagine, I'm not actually serious about this one. Probably.