#tht

I find that really sort of gross. And completely misses the point. Firstly, adoptees are not just some bulk child fulfillment discount bin to pick and choose from. They are human beings. Saying things like that treats potential adopted kids as some "backup plan", rather than an active choice that a parent wants. It's like, "Okay, well, we can't get pregnant so I GUESS we'll pick one of these unwanted things instead."

Secondly, I don't think that solves the underlying problem? It just addresses the symptoms. I think it's far more healthy and helpful to seek out why a woman feels that need and loss to such a profound degree, and what that says about her internalised view of the role of women. Cos I believe personally that it says far more about the brainwashing-level insidious nature of patriarchal ideology that it has effectively convinced generations and generations of women, even liberal ones, that actually, if you don't have kids you're sorta a failure. And these women feel deep shame when they can't meet some stupid standard of "life goals" and "family". It's all very religious to me. I saw that as someone raised Catholic. It's like Catholic doctrine, lol. (And many other religions, too.) That coupled with patriarchy hitting us from every angle from the second we are born girls is just... like, of course, women feel they MUST have children or else.

And frankly, I love that people adopt. But it seems motive and intent are unaddressed in a lot of cases. My wife's siblings are prime example. Both are adopted and much older than her, because her parents thought they couldn't have kids. Her mother never even wanted them. Let's be real. She was a shit mother and only did it cos it was what family and society pressured women to want. She ended up fucking ALL her kids up for life. Biological and adoptive. They all have serious issues... because she never wanted to be a mother in the first place. But, the adopted kids had it far worse. My wife views her siblings as blood, but the parental dynamics with the kids was fucked up. Her sister still doesn't think of herself as part of the family for real.

And no, that wasn't infertility trauma of her mother that prevented genuine connection and love. It was social pressure. It was gender roles. It was a woman essentially being coerced and pressured into fitting into a mould that all women are supposed to not only do, but also want, enjoy, and find ultimate peace and fulfillment. And her not actually being that sort of woman.

I know plenty of women who never should have become mothers. Some adopted kids, some had biological ones.

I do agree that a lot of people (not just women) adopt with the idea they will have identical experiences to "natural" parents, and it is a hard fucking lesson when that doesn't happen. I think surrogacy also factors into this and it's crazy not to consider that alongside adoption, because it's the same mechanisms. (Except worse in many cases, imo.) Again, it's not my area of study, but I don't think this failure of expectation is strictly a mom thing. I see fathers experiencing it too, especially with adopted boys. And it happens for SURE in blended families and where a child exists before a marriage to new man. These step-fathers or adopted fathers have their own preconceived notions of how "their" new child will be, and are often left frustrated (if not downright angry and avoidant) of the children when it doesn't turn out the way they expected. I mean, there are 100s of examples in fiction alone of this, and I don't think that is just some female fantasy of men being caring or a weird coincidence that doesn't actually happen irl. Men LOVE enforcing gender roles just as much, and have their own expectations of their children, too. When they do care at all, that is.

I just think it's a little narrow to say this is a specifically "Mom thing". I see it with men, too. Again, these are my personal experiences and views. I don't know the statistics, but I always get my hackles raised with suspicion when someone suggests there is something that is strictly a woman/mother problem especially when it comes to family dynamics and psychology. I do think some dads are not as affected by this simply cos they are not as involved in child-rearing -- and men are simply not as scrutinised or easily blamed as women. A lot of men don't give a shit really cos it's the woman doing all the emotional and household labour to raise the child(ren), and a lot of people immediately look to blame the mother's flaws and just ignore the father, leading to a type of confirmation bias. There are certainly fathers that get just as disappointed, frustrated, angry, sad, etc as mothers when an adopted child doesn't turn out the way they thought.

I totally agree with your words about the trauma of closed adoption, and the removal of infants from mothers. I mean, for some women who are essentially forced to carry a fetus til birth, I can see why some women choose to just get it over with as soon as possible, regardless of any potential harm to an infant. And I deffo think the concept of removing babies from moms as being horrific is a main point of THT (sometimes -- but then other times it's seen as a just punishment for bad women! At least the audience watching Luke get them to take Serena's newborn away from her thought so. Show fail. Like, I mean, seeing the audience reaction to that convinced me (as if I wasn't before lol) that the majority are just cool with Gilead ideology without the uniforms.)

I don't know about Naomi, though.

To be honest, my reading of her is less generous. I don't attribute her behaviour to trauma of any kind. I think she is very clear in what she wants and who she is. Not once did I sense any sort of desire for a child from her.

Naomi wants prestige and comfort. She wants attention. She wants a cushy little life where she doesn't have to deal with any poor people shit.

She didn't want a baby. She has zero maternal instinct and knows it. I thought her conversations early in the series with Serena were purposely set up to show the contrast between a woman who desperately wants a child but can't have one and a woman who doesn't really give a shit but wants one for the clout. If anybody has infertility trauma it's Serena, I 1000% agree there.

Mostly because she seems to view women incredibly misogynistically as not real women/wives until they provide their husbands with a family. That is the purpose of a true woman of God. She serves her husband and fills the earth with new believers in His almighty glory. I mean, it's a fairly standard religious dogma across many, many denominations. (And again, it is fully based in the male supremacy inherent in religion itself. To keep a woman controlled, bog her down with kids. Then sell her enslavement back to her as doing it for the grace of God.) I think Serena bought this hook, line, and sinker. And her own (perceived) inability to be a mother traumatised her exceptionally.

(I also think, and this is PURE speculation cos we get almost no background to her past, but she was not always as fundamentalist hardcore into the religious aspect of it (despite the bullshit retcon flashbacks of S6), but in a sense was (is still) also an opportunist who loved attention/power. She saw a gap in the social fabric and preyed on the existential dread of humanity when faced with the possibility that the human race is dying, just as many politicians and ideologues have done throughout history. And I know this is 100% speculation, but I do think she genuinely had some interest in science and environment. This was a vehicle (a trojan horse almost) also to improve conditions (LMAOOOOO) for people. She just didn't realise the oppressive mechanisms that would be required to improve those environmental conditions with any degree of success (and having studied environmental psychology, it's really fucking depressing, but as a species we're pretty damn fucked and honestly, the only way to honestly "save the planet" would be environmental (benevolent) fascism lol. Humans are just not going to do it voluntarily, especially not under capitalism). And ngl, there is some evidence that current conditions are affecting fertility in some way, but we are not alligators or frogs or fish. It's not as cut and dry as some birthrate crisis people insist, on an ecological level anyway.) Anyway, Serena is complex. That's all I know for sure lol.

Naomi is just yet another opportunistic predator. She wants the social cachet of having A Child (the fancy thing that makes you special) in that society. She doesn't give a flying fuck how she gets it, and even when she is expressly explained the horrors, she shrugs and says, fuck it. (S6 Naomi was a force. S1/S2 she was less obvious and far more malleable. But then, we needed a foil to Serena's reformation attempts and that's about the only Wife that is recognisable and they didn't kill off. So, Naomi has to play that role despite not being nearly as hardline in the early seasons. It made her resistance to Serena a little jarring tbh, but I will concede that perhaps seeing Serena get her finger chopped off had some impact on her as a partner to revolution lol. And Naomi never left Gilead like Serena did on her numerous little jaunts north of the border. She just stayed in it and kept absorbing the horrors, and getting deeper and deeper into cult mentality. So, yeah, 5 years down the road, she may have become much more entrenched in that ideology. So many of the Wives' rituals are created to reinforce the cult mentality. Like the fake birthing, the hand-fasting, all of it. They're rituals to enforce it all. And rituals work. Naomi no doubt has had to participate in far more with far less outside influence than Serena. And Naomi didn't have June in her ear constantly either. She just had "some crazy chick" she hates who blew her husband.)

I think it's specifically whatever form of trauma Serena endures (whether it is infertility, religious, spousal, etc.) that is what makes her more vulnerable to June's pushing and manipulations than someone like Naomi, who is not traumatised. (I mean, ALL women are traumatised in Gilead regardless of whether they consciously conceptualise that or not, but you know what I mean.) Serena is already much weaker because of it. She is susceptible to June (and to change itself). Not to mention her own cognitive dissonance between her desire for power and control, her desire to fulfill her duty to God/society, and her conflict with knowing something is bad deep down. Naomi is never shown to have any of that confusion or hesitation, except in S2 when Serena convinces the Wives that girls should read.

Naomi struggled to connect with Charlotte because she doesn't gaf lol. The child is only a thing to own. I can't give her the benefit of some hidden trauma, I'm sorry. Some women (like myself) just are not meant to be mothers. We don't feel that thing, that warm fuzzy desire, that mothers seem to feel. We're awkward with infants cos it feels "unnatural" -- which is ridiculous because that implies that all women have natural nurturing instincts (which itself is reductive and sexist).

To be dead honest, I don't think there is actually anything wrong with having women like Naomi on the show. Especially in contrast to the babycrazy nature of every single other fucking female character on this sexist show. Here is ONE that isn't. (Arguably, Moira isn't either... Emily struggles with motherhood post-Gilead but is still seen as a natural mother.*) The sexism comes into play when because she is barren and not a "naturally" maternal woman, she's a bitch. And because she doesn't bond with her "adopted" daughter, that means she must really be a bitch. Only bitches don't have mothering instincts. See Serena! She got an "adopted" daughter and a biological son and bonded with them so WOW! She became a softer, nicer, smarter lady! (I mean, I don't buy that line... but it was something the show was trying to push. Her path to enlightenment through motherhood. Ugh.) I'd have preferred if childless women in this show weren't all positioned as evil hags and biological mothers as saintly heroes. But hey, sexism is sexism. Being maligned as a cold failwoman because I'm childless is what I signed up for when I made that choice, I guess.

(* afaik, what's interesting is that Sylvia seems to be the only example of an adoptive mother who is bonded, positive, and loving. (The Winslows put on an act, but who buys that?) But we only get like 4 seconds of her in the entire series, so it's practically useless. Although, tbh, I don't think it was ever made clear whose egg was used for Oliver. Not that it really matters, I guess.)

Gilead is a system where a child gives you social rank and clout. Naomi loves those things and thus wants a child. No other reason. It's like street gangsters owning pitbulls. Do they even care about the dog as an individual creature capable of thought, personality, and feeling? Probably not, but having a big ass pitbull is a signifier of social status. I truly don't believe Naomi has much else going on in her head re: children than that.

"These women feel like they “need” a baby, but they also need these babies to be something they’re not."

I do think that is a great summary of the biggest issue Wives face.