#fallmaiden

Cinder Fall is… obviously a complicated character for me. I’m genuinely mixed on her. I don’t completely hate her—she’s just very complicated.

The Good

Her intellect and combat prowess were genuinely impressive. She consistently outsmarted the heroes and absolutely demolished most of her opponents.

Her design and color scheme are still some of the coolest in the show.

Her early mystery was captivating. In Volumes 1–3, she felt like a real independent threat with her own skills, resources, and agenda. That made her stand out compared to Roman, Mercury, Adam, Emerald, or even Neo at the time.

She genuinely seemed to be building toward something bigger than what we ultimately got.

The Ruby vs. Cinder rivalry had massive potential and was being set up beautifully.

She worked great as an evil mirror/foil to RWBY, JNPR, and Ozpin’s circle through her own faction.

The Bad – Everything after Volume 3 Pretty much all of what made her compelling got stripped away and replaced with a smug, faux-competent lackey who’s obsessed with power. She was arrogant before, but it felt earned back then, and she at least had some entertaining dynamics with her allies. Now she’s played completely seriously, has zero redeeming or likable traits, and never evolves—which just makes her look pathetic.

Her once-elegant fighting style has been dumbed down, her strategic mind is basically gone, and Salem ended up inheriting all the clever traits Cinder used to have. She barely uses Maiden powers creatively, her relationships with Watts, Emerald, Mercury, and Neo devolved into her treating everyone like trash (so nothing fresh ever happens there), and the story just keeps repeating the same “Cinder wants power → Cinder screws up because of ego → Cinder throws a tantrum” cycle.

Even when she’s technically “exiled,” she’s still just following Salem’s orders in the most boring way possible. On top of that, aside from Jaune (and maybe Ruby), literally no one on Team RWBY or their extended friend group seems to care that she exists anymore.

Anyone else want the Summer Maiden to be a Faunus?

I mean every Maiden we’ve seen is a Human.

Fall: Amber - Cinder 

Spring: Unknown - Raven

Winter: Fria - Penny

in the story of the Maidens it does show that the summer Maiden is a human but maybe she died and her power passed on to a Faunus, who knows?

Such an amazing artwork of the wonderful fall maiden! This artwork is heavily inspired by them, an amazing piece! Come check it out at the rwby amino!

RRBW: Cinder Fall

I'll admit, seeing Cinder nervous around Sonic and Shadow has some appeal, and a fight between her and Blaze could be interesting. But that's where the positives end. Honestly, the way this fic handles Cinder is just depressing. She's given such a raw deal in this AU that it's hard not to feel sorry for her.

In canon, Cinder always found ways to stay ahead and maintain control. Here? She gets systematically destroyed during the Vytal Arc. Tails wipes out her virus program, Sonic lures her into a trap and captures her, and even after she escapes with the full Fall Maiden powers, Shadow brutally beats her down. By the Battle of Beacon's end, Cinder is the sole villain who fails to escape. She's captured, hospitalized in a coma, loses both arms and an eye, and even if she wakes up, she'll be permanently crippled. The cherry on top? She loses the Fall Maiden powers when the Grimm containing them is destroyed.

Complete Failure: Everything Cinder worked for—all the scheming, all the killing—ends up meaning absolutely nothing. She finally obtains the full Fall Maiden powers only to get completely demolished by Shadow, proving that even with everything she wanted, she's still powerless. Super Sonic removes the Grimm inside her, and with it goes the Maiden powers. Her entire arc accomplishes nothing except leaving her broken and disabled.

The injuries are extensive. Shadow tears off her right arm during their fight, then removes her left arm after Super Sonic deals with the Grimm, leaving her with no arms at all. Her left eye is destroyed when Shadow unleashes his full power. The damage to her internal organs is so severe that Atlas doctors have no choice but to gradually convert her into a cyborg. In canon, Cinder loses an eye and arm but gets replacements. Here, she loses both eyes, both arms, and suffers catastrophic internal damage that requires complete cybernetic reconstruction.

Why This Is Problematic: The level of violence Shadow inflicts on Cinder is excessive and unjustified within this story's context. Yes, canon Cinder commits terrible acts, but in this fic, Eggman and Metal Sonic have taken over nearly all her villainous roles. Her only actual crime here is killing one White Fang member who planned to defect. That single act doesn't justify Shadow maiming her this brutally. What makes it worse is that Eggman and Metal Sonic—who've done far worse in this story—escape the Fall of Beacon relatively unscathed. The disparity suggests the author is punishing Cinder for her canon crimes rather than what she's actually done here.

Wasted Character: Out of all the mishandled characters, Cinder suffers the worst treatment. Across the entire Vale Saga—30 out of 40 chapters—she's constantly defeated by the heroes and berated by Eggman for minor errors. Her arc climaxes with her being captured before the Battle of Beacon properly begins. Even when she obtains the Maiden powers, Sonic and Shadow demolish her immediately. The aftermath strips away her powers, leaves her permanently disabled, and Salem marks her for death on sight (though given her condition, that's unlikely to matter).

The biggest villain in RWBY besides Salem herself has been reduced to a completely ineffective antagonist with zero agency. She has no meaningful presence going forward and never even interacts with the main RWBY protagonists. All her canonical relationships and significance have been erased.

It's telling that Jaune directs more hatred toward Qrow and Ozpin than toward Cinder.

Beyond her enemies, even Cinder's allies despise her. Eggman sees her as an arrogant nuisance, and Salem eventually deems her worthless, ordering her faction to execute her if they find her alive.

Cinder follows Iron117Prime's pattern of powerful villainesses from the original series getting destroyed by crossover heroes—similar to Azula and Cornelia li Britannia. The critical difference? Those characters had redeeming qualities and eventually joined the heroes. Cinder has none of that depth, but she also hasn't been given the chance to earn such brutal punishment.

Full Powered Maiden

If a single individual in the RWBY universe were to possess all four Maiden powers—Winter, Spring, Summer, and Fall—they would wield an unprecedented concentration of magical power derived from Ozma’s original gift to the first Maidens. The lore, as established in RWBY and supplementary materials like World of Remnant and RWBY: Fairy Tales of Remnant, confirms that Maiden powers are elemental in nature, independent of Dust or Semblance, and tied to the host’s Aura or soul. Combining all four would amplify these abilities to an extraordinary degree, potentially approaching the magical prowess of Ozma in his prime, though not surpassing Salem’s immortal versatility. Below is a comprehensive list of the feasible powers and abilities a "Quad-Maiden" would possess, based on canon evidence, logical extrapolation, and the mechanics of Maiden powers as seen in the series.

Powers and Abilities of a Quad-Maiden

The following assumes the host has fully realized their powers (akin to Fria’s mastery as the Winter Maiden) and can synergize all four seasonal powers seamlessly. The powers remain strictly elemental, as retconned in RWBY: Fairy Tales of Remnant, but their scale and versatility are magnified by combining the full spectrum of Maiden magic.

Mastery of All Elemental Magic

Fire Manipulation: The Quad-Maiden could generate and control fire with unmatched precision and scale, as seen with Cinder Fall’s preference for fire (e.g., creating flaming projectiles or a giant flaming rock sword in "Downfall"). They could produce infernos capable of incinerating entire battlefields, summoning volcanic eruptions, or creating sustained firestorms to overwhelm enemies.

Ice Manipulation: Drawing from Amber’s ice feats and Cinder’s ability to freeze Raven in "Vault of the Spring Maiden," they could summon massive ice constructs (walls, spikes, or blizzards), encase enemies in ice, or create sub-zero environments to slow or incapacitate foes. At full power, they might freeze entire regions, like lakes or forests, in seconds.

Wind Manipulation: As shown by Amber’s wind blasts and Cinder’s levitation/flight in "The Coming Storm," the Quad-Maiden could command hurricane-force winds, fly at high speeds, or create vortexes to displace enemies or redirect attacks. They could potentially summon tornadoes or atmospheric disturbances to disrupt entire armies or Grimm hordes.

Lightning Manipulation: Amber’s lightning strikes in "Beginning of the End" suggest the ability to call down bolts, electrify environments, or channel lightning through weapons. A Quad-Maiden could unleash continuous electrical storms, target multiple foes with precision strikes, or overload technological systems (e.g., Atlas tech or Penny’s robotics).

Earth Manipulation: Cinder’s creation of a flaming rock sword hints at earth-based abilities. The Quad-Maiden could reshape terrain, summon earthquakes, raise stone barriers, or hurl massive boulders infused with other elements (e.g., molten lava or electrified rock). They might even manipulate plant life (as implied by Spring’s association with growth) to entangle or attack.

Synergistic Elemental Combinations: With all four powers, they could combine elements for devastating effects, such as:

Fire + Wind: Creating fire tornadoes or superheated air blasts.

Ice + Earth: Forming frozen fortifications or icy quagmires to trap enemies.

Lightning + Fire: Generating plasma-like energy bursts or electrified flames.

Wind + Earth: Whipping up sandstorms or debris-filled gales.

These combinations could produce cataclysmic effects, like altering entire ecosystems or leveling cities, far surpassing single-Maiden feats like Raven’s storms or Fria’s localized dominance.

Conjuration of Elemental Weapons and Constructs

Maidens can create weapons from elements, as seen with Cinder’s flaming swords and Amber’s wind-enhanced staff attacks. A Quad-Maiden could conjure an arsenal of multi-elemental weapons, such as:

Swords or spears combining fire and lightning for searing, electrified strikes.

Ice shields or earth-based armor for defense.

Wind-propelled projectiles or earth-based battering rams.

These constructs would be larger, more durable, and more versatile than those of a single Maiden, potentially allowing the creation of massive weapons (e.g., a skyscraper-sized flaming boulder or a storm of icy daggers).

The Quad-Maiden could sustain these constructs indefinitely, as Maiden powers don’t rely on Aura depletion, unlike Semblances.

Enhanced Aura and Resilience

When Winter Schnee inherited the Winter Maiden powers in "The Final Word," her broken Aura was instantly restored, allowing her to use her Semblance against Ironwood. A Quad-Maiden would likely have a near-infinite Aura pool when channeling all four powers, making them extraordinarily resilient in combat.

This could manifest as:

Rapid recovery from physical injuries, as the influx of magic might bolster their soul’s vitality.

The ability to fight without tiring, as Maiden powers don’t consume Aura (unlike Dust or Semblances).

Resistance to Aura-draining attacks, as the combined magic could overwhelm attempts to siphon it (e.g., Cinder’s Shadow Hand).

Influence Over Grimm

Cinder’s partial control over the Wyvern via her Fall Maiden powers (World of RWBY: The Official Companion) suggests a Quad-Maiden could exert significant influence over Grimm, potentially commanding entire hordes. With all four powers, they might:

Direct apex Grimm like the Wyvern or Monstra to attack specific targets.

Intimidate or repel lesser Grimm through sheer magical presence.

Counter Salem’s Grimm control in localized areas, creating a tug-of-war over her forces.

This ability might be limited by Salem’s superior, curse-derived Grimm mastery, but it would still give the Quad-Maiden a strategic edge against her minions.

Flight and Mobility

Cinder’s wind-based levitation and Raven’s implied flight capabilities indicate that a Quad-Maiden could achieve sustained, high-speed flight. They could:

Traverse continents rapidly using wind currents.

Dodge attacks with preternatural agility, combining wind propulsion with elemental barriers.

Create aerial shockwaves to disorient enemies or clear battlefields.

Access to All Four Vaults

Each Maiden is a key to a specific Vault: Winter (Atlas/Creation), Spring (Haven/Knowledge), Summer (Shade/Choice), Fall (Beacon/Destruction). A Quad-Maiden could open all four, granting access to the Relics:

Relic of Creation: Craft anything within its rules (e.g., new bodies, weapons, or cities), limited only by the need for a clear blueprint.

Relic of Knowledge: Answer any three questions every century, providing perfect strategic insight (e.g., locating Salem’s weaknesses or predicting her plans).

Relic of Destruction: Unleash unparalleled destructive force, potentially annihilating armies or landscapes.

Relic of Choice: Influence decisions or fates, though its exact mechanics remain unclear.

Combining Relics could amplify their effects (e.g., using Knowledge to optimize Creation’s output or Destruction to clear obstacles for Choice). If all four were united, the Quad-Maiden could summon the Gods of Light and Darkness, risking global judgment but also potentially bargaining for cosmic-level changes (e.g., lifting Salem’s curse or altering Remnant’s fate).

Environmental and Global Impact

A fully realized Quad-Maiden could reshape Remnant’s environment on a massive scale:

Triggering climate shifts (e.g., turning deserts into fertile lands with Spring’s growth or freezing oceans with Winter’s ice).

Creating safe zones by repelling Grimm with elemental barriers.

Destroying or fortifying entire kingdoms, as their power could rival natural disasters (earthquakes, tsunamis, or meteor-like firestorms).

These feats would dwarf single-Maiden displays, like Raven’s localized storms or Fria’s dominance over Cinder, approaching the mythic scale of Ozma’s original magic.

Spiritual and Limbo Interaction

As seen in "The Final Word," a Maiden’s death involves a spiritual limbo where the power transfers via conversation with the successor. A Quad-Maiden’s death might create a unique limbo event, potentially allowing them to:

Influence the succession process more directly, choosing a worthy heir across all four powers.

Resist or delay transfer if their will is strong, given the combined magic’s intensity.

Communicate with past Maidens’ essences, gaining insights or guidance (though this is speculative).

Potential Non-Elemental Magic (Speculative)

Early lore (RWBY Rewind) suggested Maidens could use broader magic, but this was retconned to elemental-only powers. However, combining all four might unlock latent aspects of Ozma’s original gift, such as:

Minor reality manipulation (e.g., stabilizing environments or enhancing allies’ Auras).

Temporary boosts to allies’ Semblances via magical infusion, as Ozma’s magic was versatile.

This is highly speculative, as canon limits Maidens to elemental feats, but the sheer concentration of magic might push boundaries slightly beyond what single Maidens achieve.

Limitations and Vulnerabilities

Despite their immense power, a Quad-Maiden would face constraints:

Mortality: Unlike Salem, they’re not immortal. A fatal blow (e.g., Cinder’s arrow to Amber) would kill them, transferring the powers unless artificially sustained (like Amber’s life support).

Mental Strain: The original Spring Maiden fled due to one power’s burden; four could cause psychological overload, leading to instability or reckless destruction.

Inexperience: If not fully realized (like Fria), their power might be erratic, as seen with Cinder’s initial struggles or Amber’s defeat despite her abilities.

Opposition: Salem’s immortality and Grimm mastery, Ozma’s strategic experience, or coordinated Huntsmen teams could exploit weaknesses (e.g., outmaneuvering them or targeting their human vulnerabilities).

Relic Dependency: While Vault access is guaranteed, using Relics effectively requires knowledge and planning, which a less strategic host might fumble.

Comparison to Ozma and Salem

Vs. Ozma: The Quad-Maiden would likely surpass modern Ozma/Ozpin, whose diminished magic (e.g., cane blasts, shields) pales against their elemental might. They could approach original Ozma’s power, as they’d recombine the magic he split among the Maidens, but lack his full versatility (e.g., reincarnation, soul manipulation) unless Relics bridge the gap.

Vs. Salem: They’d rival her in destructive potential, potentially countering her Grimm with elemental barrages or controlling some via Wyvern-like influence. However, her immortality, broader magic (curses, regeneration), and strategic genius would give her an edge in prolonged conflicts. Relics could tilt this balance, but Salem’s experience with them (via Cinder’s reports) might neutralize the advantage.

Conclusion

4 Maiden Power

If one person were to acquire all four Maiden powers—Winter, Spring, Summer, and Fall—it would represent an unprecedented concentration of magic in the RWBY universe, based on established canon. While no character has achieved this yet, the lore strongly suggests it's feasible, particularly given Cinder Fall's repeated attempts to claim multiple powers and Salem's explicit designation of her as a "vessel for the Maidens" (plural). This implies that a single host, especially one modified or enhanced like Cinder (with her Grimm arm enabling partial theft), could theoretically contain them all without immediate rejection or instability. The succession rules allow for natural or forced transfers, and there's no explicit barrier preventing stacking; the powers bind to the soul/Aura, and artificial methods (like the Aura transfer machine or Grimm-based siphoning) could facilitate combining them.

Feasible Outcomes

Amplified Magical Abilities: Each Maiden power grants access to elemental magic (fire, ice, wind, lightning, earth, etc.), unbound by season—hosts simply prefer certain elements. Combining all four would likely multiply the raw output exponentially, allowing for god-like feats of elemental manipulation. For example:

Large-scale environmental control, such as summoning continent-spanning storms, volcanic eruptions, or glacial barriers.

Enhanced conjuration of elemental weapons or constructs, far beyond what individual Maidens like Cinder or Raven have shown (e.g., a massive flaming sword or ice shields).

Potential influence over Grimm, as seen with Cinder's control of the Wyvern; with all four, this could extend to directing hordes or even apex Grimm like the Monstra.

Restoration effects, like instantly replenishing Aura (as observed when Winter Schnee gained her powers mid-battle), but on a self-sustaining loop.

Early lore hints (from RWBY Rewind) suggested Maidens could access broader magic types, but this was retconned in RWBY: Fairy Tales of Remnant to focus strictly on elemental forces. Thus, the combined powers would remain elemental-centric but overwhelmingly potent, potentially rivaling natural disasters in scale.

Access to All Relics and Vaults: Maidens serve as "keys" to the Vaults beneath the Huntsman Academies (Winter for Atlas/Creation, Spring for Haven/Knowledge, Summer for Shade/Choice, Fall for Beacon/Destruction). A single host could unlock every Vault unilaterally, granting unrestricted access to the Relics. This would be catastrophic in the wrong hands:

Combining Relics could summon the Gods of Light and Darkness, risking global judgment or annihilation if humanity is deemed unworthy.

Immediate tactical dominance: The Relic of Creation could build armies or fortresses, Knowledge could reveal any secret (with its question limit bypassed via strategy), Destruction could obliterate threats, and Choice could manipulate fates or decisions on a massive scale.

Salem's endgame involves gathering Relics to end her immortality curse; a unified Maiden could accelerate or hijack this, potentially dooming Remnant.

Physical and Psychological Toll: Becoming a Maiden doesn't alter the host's core identity, but stacking four could overwhelm them. The original Spring Maiden fled due to the burden of one power; all four might induce mental strain, amplified abilities leading to unintended destruction (e.g., accidental cataclysms). Physically, the host's eyes would glow intensely when channeling, and their Aura might become inexhaustible. If the host is synthetic (like Penny Polendina, who briefly held Winter powers), it could cause system overloads or existential conflicts.

Societal and Strategic Ramifications: The secrecy around Maidens was established to prevent power-hungry hunts. A unified Maiden would shatter this, drawing global pursuit from factions like Salem's forces, the remnants of Ozma's circle, or opportunistic groups. Alliances might form to assassinate or contain them, as the power concentration threatens the fragile peace. If Salem succeeds in vesting all in Cinder, it could tip the war decisively in her favor, enabling unchecked Grimm invasions.

Theorized Power Level Compared to Ozma or Salem

Ozma (in his original form as the wizard) and Salem represent the pinnacle of magic in Remnant, as the last remnants of humanity's ancient magical era. Ozma sacrificed "a great deal" of his magic to create the four Maidens, dividing his power among them. A person with all four would essentially reassemble that sacrificed portion, potentially restoring a significant chunk of Ozma's original strength—but not all of it, as he retained some residual magic for reincarnation and minor feats (e.g., energy blasts, as Ozpin).

Vs. Current Ozma/Ozpin: They'd likely surpass him handily. Modern Ozma is diminished, relying on cunning, allies, and limited magic. A unified Maiden could overwhelm him in direct combat through sheer elemental firepower, akin to how "fully realized" Fria (one Maiden) effortlessly repelled Cinder. With all four, the host might achieve "fully realized" status across the board, enabling feats like reshaping landscapes—far beyond Ozpin's cane blasts or protective shields.

Vs. Original Ozma: Closer parity. Original Ozma could perform diverse magic (healing, transformation, creation of the Vaults), but the Maidens' powers are a direct subset of his. Recombining them might unlock latent potential, approaching his pre-sacrifice level in raw output. However, Ozma's reincarnation and soul-merging give him immortality-like longevity, which a unified Maiden wouldn't inherently gain (though Relic access could mitigate this via Creation for body restoration).

Vs. Salem: Comparable in destructive potential but ultimately outmatched. Salem's immortality makes her unkillable by conventional means, and she wields full-spectrum magic (Grimm creation/manipulation, regeneration, curses) plus strategic genius. A unified Maiden's elemental arsenal could match her in battles—e.g., countering Grimm swarms with area-denying storms or clashing directly like Cinder vs. Raven—but Salem's endless regeneration and Grimm horde would wear them down. If the host lacks Salem's curse, one fatal blow ends it. That said, with Relics in play, the Maiden could theoretically use Knowledge to uncover Salem's weaknesses or Destruction to attempt erasure, evening the odds temporarily.