#rrbw

A Red Rose in the Blue Wind Cinder RRBW(Spoilers)

Well, since Chapter 48 came out, Cinder Fall—to recap—has lost all her limbs (her arms and legs), her Semblance, her eye, and she's more or less left broken from Shadow's beatdown. Her true name is Cinder Autumn, while her old name was fake, created to fit her ideals.

That made me wonder what she would do now, since she's been left completely wrecked. I doubt she'll change for any reason—all that's happened is she got brutally destroyed.

Well, now it seems that Starline and his lackeys have kidnapped her as well. Simply put, she might be turned into somewhat of a biomechanical cyborg like Surge. That would actually make her a serious threat, since his other creations managed to defeat Sonic, Eggman, and their allies with ease.

Analysis: Power Scaling Imbalances in RRBW

Overview

This crossover suffers from significant power scaling inconsistencies that undermine narrative tension. Despite the Sonic cast dominating encounters, fans note they're operating below their canonical capabilities. Meanwhile, RWBY characters struggle to remain relevant against threats far exceeding their usual adversaries.

The Remnant Cast: Underpowered and Marginalized

Combat Effectiveness

Professional Huntsmen including Winter, Qrow, the Ace Ops, Glynda, Ironwood, and Ozpin are consistently outmatched by Sonic world inhabitants. This disparity is technically justified—the Sonic cast regularly confronts cosmic-level threats that dwarf Remnant's challenges. However, this relegates RWBY heroes to support roles, making them feel peripheral to their own story's conflicts.

Inconsistent Threat Levels

The narrative creates tension through selective nerfing. Sonic and Shadow inexplicably fail to apprehend Cinder during a motorcycle chase, despite their vastly superior speed. This artificial limitation exists because without such constraints, most RWBY antagonists would be eliminated immediately.

Conversely, previously defeated RWBY villains like Team WTCH suddenly pose credible threats, creating whiplash after audiences watched them easily subdued earlier. The story struggles to maintain consistent danger levels.

Sonic Cast: Overwhelming Power

Established Capabilities

Team Sonic has defeated threats including:

Perfect Chaos (Chaos Emerald-empowered deity)

Solaris (multiversal temporal entity)

Dark Gaia (planet-splitting primordial force)

The Time Eater (space-time consuming entity)

The End (self-proclaimed civilization destroyer)

Their abilities span supersonic to light-speed movement, invulnerability through Super transformations, and technological genius matching or exceeding Eggman's innovations.

Team Dark combines Shadow's Chaos Control (teleportation and time manipulation), Rouge's espionage expertise, and Omega's devastating arsenal. They've repelled alien invasions and survived apocalyptic scenarios.

Team Chaotix and Team Rose, while less powerful, still possess abilities that exceed standard Huntsman capabilities.

Cultural Impact

Super Sonic's emergence transforms him into a messianic figure on Remnant. The narrative consistently validates his superiority, portraying any opposition as villainous or misguided. While this mirrors his treatment in IDW comics, it further diminishes RWBY characters' agency.

Ruby's Identity Crisis

After Metal Sonic steals Crescent Rose, Sonic provides Ruby with a sword. Rather than developing her own combat evolution, Ruby begins imitating Sonic, losing her distinctive identity. This feels narratively regressive—instead of Ruby adapting her skills to new challenges, she becomes derivative of her mentor figure.

RWBY Antagonists: Diminished Threats

Easily Neutralized

Cinder Fall exemplifies the story's villain problem. Where previous works by this author (featuring Azula in Worlds Collide, Cornelia in Code Prime) balanced frequent defeats with maintained threat levels and eventual redemption, Cinder receives no such consideration.

She never establishes herself as formidable. Her schemes are thwarted effortlessly, and she secures no meaningful victories. Shadow's brutal assault leaves her with catastrophic injuries: three severed limbs, one destroyed eye, and such extensive internal damage that Atlas reconstructs her as a cyborg. She loses the Fall Maiden powers immediately after obtaining them when Super Sonic eliminates the Grimm parasite.

This treatment feels disproportionate. While canon Cinder commits terrible acts, in this narrative Dr. Eggman and Metal Sonic perpetrate most of her canonical crimes. Her sole original transgression—murdering a defecting White Fang member—doesn't warrant the extreme violence inflicted upon her, especially when Eggman and Metal Sonic face significantly lighter consequences.

The result: RWBY's primary antagonist (beside Salem) spends thirty chapters systematically humiliated before being permanently removed from relevance. She never even interacts with the canonical protagonists, severing all original story connections.

Key Problems:

Stripped of agency and effectiveness

Receives excessive punishment compared to more culpable villains

Lacks redemptive qualities to justify a redemption arc

Functions only as a punching bag for audience catharsis regarding canon actions she never commits here

Mercury and Emerald

Both struggle after repeated defeats. Emerald's illusions prove useless against Rouge, Omega, and Whisper, forcing reliance on inferior combat skills. Mercury, though originally RWBY's premier fighter among villains before Tyrian and Hazel's introduction, similarly falls short despite Eggman upgrading his prosthetic legs.

Neo

Her arc zigzags inconsistently. After three consecutive losses (repeatedly to Rouge, with Omega and Whisper's immunity to illusions), her only victory comes against inexperienced students—hardly impressive. Teaming with Mimic improves her prospects, but targeting Ruby risks repeating Volume 9's controversial storyline.

Adam Taurus

Follows Cinder's trajectory but fares marginally better—at least securing one victory over Sonic (using Eggman's resources) and ultimately being defeated by Blake rather than completely demolished. His capture leaves him potentially reusable, unlike Cinder's narrative obliteration.

The Grimm

Grimm pose negligible threat, eliminated as easily as mowing grass. They only become dangerous when empowered by Chaos Emeralds or Salem's mutations—requiring Sonic elements to matter. This pattern recurs: threats only register when connected to Sonic's world.

Sonic Antagonists: Carrying the Narrative

Dr. Eggman

Portrayed as intellectually dominant (drawing from Archie/IDW composite characterization), he outmaneuvers everyone through elaborate strategies. The narrative positions Salem's faction as responsible for failures, never Eggman himself—despite Mimic causing a crucial setback.

His hypocrisy goes unchallenged: he mocks Watts for being hacked by Tails, despite Tails repeatedly hacking Eggman throughout the franchise. He attributes defeats to Sonic's interference while overlooking Team CMEN's successful contributions during the Beacon arc.

Metal Sonic

IDW's characterization portrays him as nearly unstoppable, defeated only twice (by Zavok and Kitsunami). Here he functions as Eggman's ultimate enforcer, responsible for killing Amber, Ozpin, and Penny (later revived), plus eliminating an entire crime family including children.

He effortlessly suppresses any RWBY antagonist, including Team WTCH, making him one of few credible threats. However, this reinforces the problem: only Sonic villains pose real danger.

Capabilities:

Matches both Sonic and Shadow simultaneously

Silent but highly intelligent with independent objectives

Upgrades include blade and firearm integrations

Wields stolen Crescent Rose post-Beacon

Ruthlessly efficient with no hesitation

Potential Future Threats

Confirmed/Likely Sonic Villains

Mephiles the Dark (Shadow Generations didn't occur): Immortal entity capable of time manipulation, shadow constructs, and dimensional phasing. Killed Sonic in canon, can fuse with Iblis to become Solaris—a multiversal deity requiring paired Super Sonics to defeat.

Black Doom (survived via parasitic regeneration): Commands telepathic mind control, energy manipulation, and transforms into Devil Doom with planetary-scale destructive capacity.

Dark Gaia (potentially active due to dimensional fusion): Planet-splitting power, mass corruption abilities, required both Super Sonic and the Gaia Colossus to subdue.

Imperator Ix: "Techno-wizard" with Chaos Emerald energy manipulation, capable of achieving his own Super form, defeated only by Super Sonic.

Infinite (Zero's apparent trajectory): Phantom Ruby wielder who single-handedly defeated the entire Sonic cast, creates indistinguishable reality constructs, requires Super Sonic to overcome.

Time Eater: Eggman never encountered it due to the story's divergence point. This space-time consuming entity erases dimensions, needed two Super Sonics working in tandem to defeat, and its actions in Shadow Generations enable Mephiles's return.

The End: Claims superiority over all previous Sonic threats by orders of magnitude, exists as a conceptual force beyond conventional destruction, required maximum-power Super Sonic plus orbital bombardment.

IDW Antagonists

Mimic: Shape-shifting infiltrator with surprising combat prowess (overpowered Silver), excels through pragmatism and deception. While Sonic's "weakest," he dominates RWBY's cast.

Surge and Kitsunami: Starline's anti-Sonic weapons who've defeated Sonic and Tails in combat. Surge rivals Sonic's speed with lethal electrokinesis; Kit's hydrokinesis and genius-level intellect match Tails while being far more ruthless.

Clutch: Criminal mastermind who successfully infiltrated the Restoration, commands vast resources and Eggman technology.

Zavok and the Deadly Six: Electromagnetic manipulation allows control over all machinery—devastating against technology-dependent Remnant, especially Atlas. Required Super Sonic to overcome, once commanded Eggman's entire army.

The Fundamental Problem

Sonic and RWBY operate on incompatible power scales. RWBY's threats peak at planetary level (Salem, the Gods). Sonic routinely confronts and defeats multiversal entities, time-devouring monsters, and reality-warpers. Even minor Sonic antagonists like Rough and Tumble would pose serious threats to Remnant's civilians and Huntsmen.

This creates cascading narrative issues:

RWBY characters feel superfluous against Sonic-scale threats

RWBY villains become jokes compared to Sonic antagonists

Sonic characters require artificial nerfs to maintain tension

Stakes fluctuate wildly depending on threat origin

The story devolves into "Sonic characters resolve RWBY's problems" rather than genuine crossover collaboration where both casts contribute meaningfully.

Potential Solutions

Ruby obtaining a Super form (widely predicted)

Significant power boosts for RWBY cast

Substantial Sonic character limitations

Focus on threats requiring RWBY-specific skills (political, social intelligence)

Yet even with these adjustments, when characters can move at light speed, manipulate time-space, and have defeated destruction gods... what meaningful contribution can RWBY's cast provide beyond emotional support and local knowledge?

RRBW: IDW-VERSE (Spoilers)

The IDW Verse has also gotten into this fic, with examples being Starline and Mimic. Though my issues are less with these two individually and more with how they're handled in the story. At best, there are too many cast members, but I'm writing a mega crossover so I really don't care if a story has thousands of characters—if they're memorable, it doesn't matter in the long run.

For Mimic, my only issues are... well, it's complicated. First, to know: Mimic is a former member of the Diamond Cutters mercenary group who winds up in the World of Remnant alongside Doctor Eggman after he stowed away in the Space Colony Ark. He is later revealed to be working for Doctor Merlot, a subsidiary of Eggman's alliance with Salem. Being an octopus fitting his skills, he's also much more badass, able to use Rouge's flight and easily turn into humans.

One issue is that while Salem and Eggy play the blame game really—while exploiting Team RWBY and JNPR's weaknesses and putting them through a physical and emotional wringer worked out in his favor, it also opened their eyes to how much they needed to improve themselves. So they spend the next few days seriously working on their combat, physicality, and teamwork, and as a result, they not only do a better job in the Vytal Tournament but in the Battle for Beacon as well. Furthermore, the experience strengthened their bond with Sonic and the others, thus making their teamwork with them stronger too, ensuring their victory. Mimic did succeed in showing the huntsmen in training what happens to the inexperienced, but the results are definitely not what he had intended. If Eggman and Salem need anyone to blame for their defeat at Beacon, it would be Mimic.

Next, Super Sonic lets Neo and Mimic get off scot-free to escape, which leads to... well, you know, being at large and joining Salem's group to attack Sonic and co. later down the line. Sure, he didn't have to kill them, but he could easily just knock them out and be on his way. Instead, he leaves them completely alive to continue their revenge. Considering they were stalking Ruby/Yang, they could've easily killed or injured them and no one would've been the wiser since the heroes kicked Qrow off the group... and Qrow would've been furious at Sonic.

Starline is interesting, though. Unlike his canon self who worked under Eggy, he instead worked alone, though he still has the same plans to stop both Eggy and Sonic for good. He also has captured Emperor Ix of all people for his plans and also has Surge and Kit (this is implied). Though this leads to an issue: Starline and Co. are REALLY strong to the point they were able to put Sonic's team and Eggman on the ropes a lot and succeed. So what the heck can RWBY and co. do? Sonic was killed by Surge by her sheer power... Though it adds stakes to the story, it just makes me wonder how the heroes could defeat them.

Topic: Neo (Spoilers)

Following the pattern of RWBY villains being sidelined in RRBW, Neo also gets this pretty badly. Due to Team Dark members having skills to detect Neo, she takes heavy losses. She's still a competent fighter in her own right, but Rouge—whose abilities completely counter hers—exists in the story, and the plot pits her against Rouge quite a lot, causing her to have a weaker track record in her fights in this fic.

Neo is Roman's partner-in-crime and bodyguard rolled into one, functioning as his number two. Compared to her boss and ally Roman, Neo is way more dangerous and skilled, with Eggman saying she's got potential. However, because she's still partners with Roman, Eggman and Metal Sonic both think she's wasting her abilities working with that idiot. They don't understand why Neopolitan serves Roman, even though she's the strongest of their little duo with the ability to overthrow him as Vale's crime boss.

Neo's 'Overactive Imagination' Semblance lets her create incredibly realistic illusions that can easily fool most opponents. However, the illusions themselves are just visual ones, so an opponent with sharp enough hearing can avoid being fooled, as she found out the hard way against Rouge. Neo is renowned for dancing around her opponents while taking no hits and non-verbally taunting them throughout, making them enraged and sloppy. She finds herself on the receiving end of this in her fight against Rouge, whose hearing not only renders her Semblance useless, but whose greater experience as both a spy and fighter lets her avoid all her attacks—something that quickly gets under Neo's skin. When Rouge asks her to raise one finger if she stays silent by choice and two if she's really mute or not, Neo answers by giving her the middle finger.

Neo was a rather tricky fighter to go up against in canon, but the fanfic series introduces characters who can directly combat her Semblance. Omega's robotic sensors won't be fooled by her illusions, but it's with Rouge where we see it fully—her enhanced hearing (as she's a bat) allows her to notice which is the illusion and which isn't. In true Iron117Prime fashion, she's beaten easily by Rouge in the train fight. Later chapters aren't too kind to her either, and even when she's not fighting Rouge, the latter is always in the vicinity as a support unit to whoever Neo's fighting. She's another example of the female high-ranking warrior (in relation to Roman) who's trounced very easily by newcomer heroes. She's on the receiving end of this from Rouge, whose abilities pretty much counter hers. Oddly enough, the fic is the first to feature two of these—the other being Cinder. Before they fight, Rouge even lampshades another factor of this character archetype by asking, "Don't suppose I can convince you to change sides and not waste your life on something stupid?"

Neo has a few notable quirks: she does an eyelid pull taunt to Metal Sonic when he walks away from her and Roman, and she has a serious berserk button—don't ask her about her mother or how she raised her. After Roman's death, she teams up with Mimic to avenge him, even though she honestly doesn't like the shapeshifter, demonstrating pragmatic villainy. Like in canon, she develops a serious grudge against the one responsible for Torchwick's death—only instead of Ruby, it's Qrow.

My Mixed Feelings: See, Qrow kills Roman, unlike canon where Neo just believed Cinder's claims of Ruby killing Roman (she didn't). Here, Qrow indeed did it, and Neo saw it, thus she realistically wouldn't change her opinion. Though the implications suggest she'll redeem herself... but why would she? In canon, she went all the way to make Ruby kill herself, breaking her down physically and mentally till she was nearly an empty shell and lost the will to fight back.

Topic: Salem (Spoilers)

Salem is an interesting figure in this fic. On the plus side, she has much more explanation for her motives—planning to use the Chaos Emerald to become more powerful than Super Sonic and defeat the Brother Gods and Ozma in revenge. She's also given more time to be human and intelligent, clearly stringing Eggman along while also caring for her old family. She has composite goals of wanting to break her curse as well before deciding to use the Emerald for revenge.

My issues: Ironprime's fics usually have a pattern where one group of villains defeats the other franchise's villains. While the line between who is "Eviler than Thou" in the fanfic is far more blurry than in his other fanfics—whereas The Shredder and Megatron pretty much establish themselves as the Crossover Villain-in-Chief from the get-go—here, both sides show equally competent planning, both against the heroes and each other.

Salem acts much more submissive. In canon, she would put her foot down when someone pushed their limits. Granted, it's said she didn't do so here because she didn't want to waste time fighting Eggman and fighting the heroes as well, but she still acts very limited. This is unfortunate considering that at the end of the day, Eggman is far cooler, better, and a more interesting antagonist compared to canon Salem, whose motives remain foggy. I don't agree with this view, but that's the general consensus when comparing the two.

Along with that, Salem seemingly acts very arrogant, though we have to remember Salem never faced Sonic, so it's not unfounded even if she saw the videos. Plus, her plans did work pretty well until both Salem and Eggman slipped up. And no, unlike how the narrative implies, it's not all Salem's fault for leaving the emeralds by a trapped Ruby—Eggman was the one who decided to crush her spirits, thus it's both their faults. Plus, it's Sonic's pattern for new villains to believe themselves above Sonic, only for Sonic to obviously prove them wrong.

Now, who would take over as the main villain is unknown. Eggman has a bad habit of not fully thinking through his plans, and given that his track record vs Sonic is spotty, it's possible he'll overstep and lose first. He's been successfully betrayed by Shadow, Chaos, Metal Sonic, Mecha Sonic, Mecha Knuckles, Gamma, Omega, Gemerl, the Deadly Six, the Hard Boiled Heavies, Dr. Starline, Trip, Eggman Nega, Mother Wisp, and Infinite—and those are just the major examples.

On the other hand, Salem is so used to being in full control of what's going on in her "war." Perhaps having elements of chaos like Sonic and the Emeralds will end up surprising her in different ways, leading to her downfall. After all, despite the different dynamics, Iron117Prime usually has the "outside" force have a little extra oomph to win compared with the locals. So either we might get Eggman or Salem as the main villain, or both.

Along with that, her whole team is repeatedly bullied into submission by Eggman despite Eggman only talking tough due to having a robotic Sonic doppelganger protecting them. While I get Eggman is above them in terms of power and skill, narratively and his personality traits mean he's obviously not as powerful as he seems. This also makes Salem's group feel non-threatening, making me wonder why we should be worried for the heroes—correction, the Sonic heroes, because sure Salem's group can beat the RWBY heroes, but it feels kinda wrong. Though it's implied only Salem might be the main threat on the RWBY side, which kinda bites since seeing the RWBY villains mingle with the Sonic heroes/villains would be more interesting.