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Jean Moreau is everywhere for those with eyes to see
My problem with Thea is not that she is a woman in a heterosexual monogamous relationship with kevin. My problem with her is what a lot of people seem to skip over: riko was in the room when they had sex for the first times anything linked to kevthea has riko stuck right in the middle. There no way to spin this relationship into something healthy or good. I get that consent isn't even a thing in the nest, but she had been out of that cult for years when tkm rolls around. Her still acting like a rape-defending raven completely shattered any appreciation I could have for her or kevthea. I do hope Nora delves into them and gives Thea a character that is at least redeemable, because as of right now it's not looking too hot. And I also ship many monogamous straight kevin ships (kevallison, for example) so I don't know why every time I say I don't like kevthea that's the automatic response.
Oh, but let's be honest: there are ways, people just refuse to see them or think about them or consider them because they don't like Thea and they don't like Kevthea.
I know it, because fandom can take sand and turn it into glass. Turn rocks into diamonds. When they want to, they build character backgrounds and thread the connection between characters gently and carefully until it gleams and glows.
I know there are ways that don't even have to come from Nora as canon, even in fanon it could be done and it could be done WELL because I've seen it happen with villains and characters like Seth that are dead in canon.
There's a significant difference between intending cruelty and landing cruelly â and fandom knows this distinction intimately, because it applies it constantly to characters and ships it likes. And that's just not Thea or Kevthea.
I'm not asking anyone to love Thea or ship KevThea. Ship what you want, choose your favourite dolls and play with them in your own preferred way. But "there is no way to spin this into something good" is just not true.
And the proof is in what fandom chooses to spin and what it doesn't, who gets interpretive charity and who doesn't, whose bad moments are character depth and whose are verdicts. The bar has never been this high for anyone who wasn't already unliked.
how is there a good spin on two characters being forced to have sex with each other? genuinely đ
I'm not saying THAT particular canon moment can be spined into something that was good or positive.
I'm saying their current and future relationship can be built into something good for both of them.
ship what you want ig, but I personally don't like my ships starting out with non-consensual things
I... It's written right there that you're perfectly fine not to ship them. I don't care if you ship them or not.
My point was specifically about saying that it is not possible to make good out of KevThea, but it is possible. Not everyone wants to look, not everyone cares, not everyone is interested to do it. And that's perfectly fine and perfectly acceptable. But it can be done or it could be done, in canon and in fanon, with enough care. Fandom has worked from worse.
In summary: You made a general claim about how it's not possible to make them healthy or good as a ship. I'm making a general claim back: it is. Saying a dish is inedible and saying you don't like the taste are two different statements. One is about the food, one is about you. I'm talking about the food.
My problem with Thea is not that she is a woman in a heterosexual monogamous relationship with kevin. My problem with her is what a lot of people seem to skip over: riko was in the room when they had sex for the first times anything linked to kevthea has riko stuck right in the middle. There no way to spin this relationship into something healthy or good. I get that consent isn't even a thing in the nest, but she had been out of that cult for years when tkm rolls around. Her still acting like a rape-defending raven completely shattered any appreciation I could have for her or kevthea. I do hope Nora delves into them and gives Thea a character that is at least redeemable, because as of right now it's not looking too hot. And I also ship many monogamous straight kevin ships (kevallison, for example) so I don't know why every time I say I don't like kevthea that's the automatic response.
Oh, but let's be honest: there are ways, people just refuse to see them or think about them or consider them because they don't like Thea and they don't like Kevthea.
I know it, because fandom can take sand and turn it into glass. Turn rocks into diamonds. When they want to, they build character backgrounds and thread the connection between characters gently and carefully until it gleams and glows.
I know there are ways that don't even have to come from Nora as canon, even in fanon it could be done and it could be done WELL because I've seen it happen with villains and characters like Seth that are dead in canon.
There's a significant difference between intending cruelty and landing cruelly â and fandom knows this distinction intimately, because it applies it constantly to characters and ships it likes. And that's just not Thea or Kevthea.
I'm not asking anyone to love Thea or ship KevThea. Ship what you want, choose your favourite dolls and play with them in your own preferred way. But "there is no way to spin this into something good" is just not true.
And the proof is in what fandom chooses to spin and what it doesn't, who gets interpretive charity and who doesn't, whose bad moments are character depth and whose are verdicts. The bar has never been this high for anyone who wasn't already unliked.
how is there a good spin on two characters being forced to have sex with each other? genuinely đ
I'm not saying THAT particular canon moment can be spined into something that was good or positive.
I'm saying their current and future relationship can be built into something good for both of them.
My problem with Thea is not that she is a woman in a heterosexual monogamous relationship with kevin. My problem with her is what a lot of people seem to skip over: riko was in the room when they had sex for the first times anything linked to kevthea has riko stuck right in the middle. There no way to spin this relationship into something healthy or good. I get that consent isn't even a thing in the nest, but she had been out of that cult for years when tkm rolls around. Her still acting like a rape-defending raven completely shattered any appreciation I could have for her or kevthea. I do hope Nora delves into them and gives Thea a character that is at least redeemable, because as of right now it's not looking too hot. And I also ship many monogamous straight kevin ships (kevallison, for example) so I don't know why every time I say I don't like kevthea that's the automatic response.
Oh, but let's be honest: there are ways, people just refuse to see them or think about them or consider them because they don't like Thea and they don't like Kevthea.
I know it, because fandom can take sand and turn it into glass. Turn rocks into diamonds. When they want to, they build character backgrounds and thread the connection between characters gently and carefully until it gleams and glows.
I know there are ways that don't even have to come from Nora as canon, even in fanon it could be done and it could be done WELL because I've seen it happen with villains and characters like Seth that are dead in canon.
There's a significant difference between intending cruelty and landing cruelly â and fandom knows this distinction intimately, because it applies it constantly to characters and ships it likes. And that's just not Thea or Kevthea.
I'm not asking anyone to love Thea or ship KevThea. Ship what you want, choose your favourite dolls and play with them in your own preferred way. But "there is no way to spin this into something good" is just not true.
And the proof is in what fandom chooses to spin and what it doesn't, who gets interpretive charity and who doesn't, whose bad moments are character depth and whose are verdicts. The bar has never been this high for anyone who wasn't already unliked.

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i think you're one of the only blogs i've come across that hasn't been a blatant thea hater, and i've seen one of your posts attribute a part of that reception to racism, and i would like to hear your thoughts about this and about thea in general because this isn't a commonly held position on her and i am always interested and fascinated by your takes & thought processes and would love to to hear more of what you think
Hi there,
So Iâve spoken a few times on racism in AFTG. Particularly about the Moriyamas & Nicky, but Iâll specifically touch on racism & Thea here. I have a few other questions on Thea as well that I need to answer about my thoughts on her character, Kevin/Thea and her friendship with Jean, so I wonât really touch on those in this question - Iâll specifically be addressing (a) the racism of Theaâs character within the text of AFTG and (b) the racism she experiences within the Fandom.
First, on the racism with the text of AFTG: as Iâve mentioned before, it is considered racist to ONLY point out a characterâs race when they are not white. It very much perpetuates whiteness as the default and PoC as the âother.â Moreover, the way that Thea was introduced in TKM compared to how the canonically white female characters (Allison, Renee and yes Dan b/c Nora initially envisioned Dan as white) were introduced was⌠not great. Thea's descriptions of her "thick legs" "chiseled arms" and "unmoving tank" [think of how many conservative newspapers in America describe Michelle Obama - it's considered racist & dehumanizing. Black women are often denied femininity & womanhood].
Nora is obviously trying harder in TSC & TGR to make her writing less racist, racially inclusive & address racism - moreover she herself has also noted how the backlash to Thea is rooted in racism. [Also I know sometimes some of yâall do this to be funny: but deliberately fucking up the surname âMuldaniâ and treating an ethnic surname like itâs Strange or Stupid just b/c you donât like the character attached to the surname is, in fact, racist]. People with obviously ethnic surnames in Western countries do in fact get discriminated against on the basis of their name sounding "Stupid" to white people.
Iâll also say a lot of people in the AFTG Fandom get defensive about AFTG being called racist or when the AFTG Fandom is called out as racist - Iâve seen many, many posts saying that the way Nora wrote the Moriyamas wasnât racist towards Japanese people (it most certainly was) & that the Fandom not liking Thea has ânothingâ to do with racism or misogynoir, to which I say: sometimes the things you love are racist. Sometimes you are unintentionally perpetuating racism EVEN when you do not mean to be. Racism is often rooted in implicit bias & a lot of racism has been normalized.
Which brings me to: racism in the AFTG Fandom. We'll start with: asking, begging, harassing, and especially THREATENING Nora to remove Thea from future novels such as The Broken Cage, The Perfect, Court, or the Queenâs Game. The fact that Nora apologized on Twitter for Thea being in Jeanâs first two novels.
The people who made these (occasionally threatening and violent demands) may VIEW themselves differently than the people who demanded Disney remove Finn from the Star Wars sequels, or the people who were pissed off when Rue from Hunger Games was a Black girl. Because in their mind itâs not that Thea is Black that is the problem: they just donât like her character! They donât like her with Kevin! Whatever the reason the end result in the same: you want the only CONFIRMED Black woman from AFTG written out of the novels. Some of you wanted her killed off. Condemned by the narrative & everyone around her. And b/c media does not exist in a vacuum: writing Thea off/killing Thea off would just be ANOTHER Black character removed from a franchise because thatâs what the fans demanded. It doesnât matter the reasoning, that is the end result. You can blame Nora for âwriting Thea poorlyâ but the thing is: instead of trying to find a work-around, a way for Nora to retcon Thea, the first response was just to want Thea gone or dead. Demanding Black characters be removed from media because you âdonât like themâ and you donât want to deal with them or have them date your white boy fav is a TREND in media. Congratulations, your racism isn't even unique.
I think itâs also hypocritical that some people claim to be âanti-censorshipâ when it comes to complaining that people write posts about not shipping their favourite ship or when it comes to writing porn on AO3 but think itâs perfectly reasonable to⌠threaten an author to not include one of her own characters in her own novels because you personally do not like Thea. Or to beg for Thea not to be included.
Onto my second complaint about racism in regard to Thea.
Andrew strangled Kevin. Andrew sliced Kevin with a knife when Kevin shoved him into a locker. Andrew threatened Kevin with a knife to go on Neilâs vacation. Kevin/Andrew & Kevin/Andrew/Neil are still EXTREMELY popular pairings. There are still people hoping that Nora will change her mind about Kevin/Andrew/Neil and make them Canon in TQG. Nora had said multiple times that Andrew DOES NOT and WILL NOT feel any guilt or remorse about strangling Kevin. But apparently Kevin/Andrew/Neil is still fine to ship. âNora can change her mind! She can write Andrew feeling remorse and apologizing to Kevin and theyâll talk it out and everything will be okay and then Kevin can date him!â
Okay.
Why canât Thea be changed? Why does Andrew get to change and âgrowâ and âbe betterâ (become the character you want him to be so you can comfortably ship him with Kevin and claim Andrew is âso much healthier for Kevinâ) And Thea is doomed to always being terrible? EVEN THOUGH she has never canonically hit Kevin. There is absolutely NO canonical evidence that she ever hit Kevin or would hit Kevin. But there is so much meta/Fic about Thea being physically abusive. Why is that? I genuinely think some people need to reflect on what societal stereotypes about Black woman exist that make it so easy for them to imagine a Black woman being scary & physically abusive despite no evidence of this in Canon (and no her being 'mean' does not count as evidence of being physically abusive). Moreover, why is Andrew - a white boy - still so easily shipped with Kevin despite ACTUALLY being the one to physically harm him & despite the fact that Nora said he will never feel remorse for this?
Instead of asking Nora or hoping for Nora to fix Theaâs character, to make Thea good representation of a complex, nuanced Black female character, people just want her gone. âKevin deserves to heal!â âJean deserves to heal!â "Andrew deserves to heal.â All the white boys deserve to heal. Kevin & Jean get to unlearn the Raven mentality & recover from being brainwashed and being in a cult. Thea? Oh. itâs TOO late for her. Sheâs already BAD and sheâs going to remain BAD (even though the books that would have the most Thea havenât even been written yet). âThea already had years outside of the Nest and sheâs still as Raven as ever!!â or âThea CHOSE to be a Raven! Itâs not the same with Kevin & Jean.â
Like, yâall⌠Thea isnât fucking real. Sheâs a character that can be adjusted as Nora writes her, especially b/c sheâs BARELY been in the books. She can have her own tragic back story written in to explain why she signed with the Ravens & how she got brainwashed & what sheâs trying to unlearn.
Why canât we ask Nora to change Theaâs Raven mentality - as sheâs changing Jeanâs? (I would also argue that Kevin still has a bit of his Raven mentality, but Kevinâs rough edges get to be smoothed over while Theaâs are amplified). Why canât we ask/hope for a narrative where Thea - the only Black woman in AFTG, who has experienced racism and sexism in her Exy career - gets to realize how toxic the Ravens were? To her and those around her. Why canât she grow and heal & make amends in The Queenâs Game? Why is she permanently stuck as âbadâ and âalways a Raven.â Why is it too late for her in a series that goes on about first, second, third, fourth chances? Why does SETH get to become popular in Fanon with this idea that âif he lived he would of had a redemption arcâ and somehow gets to be a popular Fanon character who is Bi & sorry for his previous homophobia & is sometimes even shipped with Kevin and Thea is irredeemable?
âNora already wrote her and Kevin having sex in front of Riko!! Itâs toxic.â That was in the EC, which Nora still has an opportunity to change in the books. It already seems as if sheâs trying to change the age gap and made sure Kevin was 18 and in university by the time him and Thea were actually regularly speaking to one another & Kevin developed his crush & Thea reciprocated. Nora has already retconned some of the EC - why is it that some of you are so eager to dismiss EC thatâs about how Kevin only occasionally visits Neil & Andrew and they only call/text once-in-awhile & Andrew/Neil never married or say I love you, but are willing to cling to Theaâs EC like itâs etched into stone. I think as long as Kevin & Thea have minimal to no contact prior to Kevin being 18 and in university - the age gap of 18/22 is fine. [Moreover, why are people so reluctant to talk about the power Kevin had in the Raven hierarchy? Yes, he was treated as inferior to Riko but he was also considered superior to literally EVERY OTHER Raven].
And speaking of age gaps⌠Iâve mentioned before that Thea was IMMEDIATELY hated on for âgrooming Kevinâ and âshe started grooming Kevin at 14!!â and yes TRK did make it seem a bit dodgy when Neil thought about how âKevin would have known Thea her entire Raven careerâ but Nora has since taken steps to fix that by emphasizing the fact that Kevin/Thea ONLY started really interacting when Kevin was 18 and a first year uni student & Thea was 22. Iâve also read a lot of Fic that writes Thea out b/c of her âinappropriate age gap with Kevinâ while still including & loving⌠you guessed it! Roland.
Why does Roland get to be the funny white boy bartender who is still included in every Fic? He was 23 & Andrew was 17 and in high school (and never sober) when they hooked up. But very few people critique Roland. Or refuse to include him in their Fics. But Thea is IMMEDIATELY banished.
Iâm not saying people have to write Fic about Thea. Or meta about Thea. Or like Thea. I do think people shouldnât harass Nora NOT to include Thea b/c regardless of the reasons that you PERSONALLY have for not liking Thea, demanding she be removed from future novels/that Nora doesnât DARE make her and Kevin endgame perpetuates a very racist and common occurrence within Fandoms.
I genuinely think some people need to reflect on why they are willing to have empathy for canonical white boy characters & allow them redemption & healing arcs. Why white boys are allowed to be violent on page but still be beloved by Fandom. Why white boys are allowed to be toxic and messy and have unhealthy relationships with each other and still be the darlings of Fandoms. And Black women are expected to disappear from the narrative or be killed off. Why Black women are not allowed healing arcs & to grow and change. Why Black women are stuck as permanently âbadâ and âincapable of growth.â And why some people think itâs okay to demand an author remove her Black female character from any future novels.
Okay, I just read Kevin and Thea's section in the extra content and I'm still not down with them. As friends? Sure, but, there's just exy and attraction. Kevin deserves someone who will help him pull away from his obsession and show him how to be a person outside of exy, that his worth is not determined by how well he plays. Thea just made three Ravens kill themselves because they didn't live up to their standards.
For these and other reasons. I don't think Kevin should end up with an exy player. In the extra content Nora mentions how he doesn't talk about history with the monsters anymore. What if he joined a history club and met someone? Someone who doesn't see him as the Son of Exy, Queen of the Court, just Kevin, who likes history and classical music and wants to learn the piano.
But even if his LI is an exy player, he *definitely* should not end up with a raven. Let him out! Let him heal! Let him move on!!
It's always about who "Kevin deserves" but never about who "Thea deserves"
the face you see before she knocks the daylight out of you
Jean was forced into submission in the past, but with Jeremy, he gets to reclaim it. He gets to choose what submission means to him, define it on his own terms, and place his trust freely instead of it being a source of punishment for trying.

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I Want You Here.
Week 2 - Jeremy.
I CANT BELIEVE I DIDN'T KNOW WHEN THE PROLOGUE GOT POSTED! But now I get to read chapter 1 too đŤśđź
To Jeremy Knox
Have this while I'm working on something good hehe
The kind of eyes that inspire lyrics and poems
I want Jerejean having a thing for each other in lingerie.
I want Jeremy in a translucent brown babydoll and Jean in a deep blue bralette that canât quite contain his tits. I want mirrors everywhere so they can watch each other while they fuck, lace and panties still on âJeremy simply pulled his dick out of his and moved Jean's out of the way âunable to look away.
I want them obsessed with how beautiful the other looks â both flushed pink and glowing, loving every second of being admired.
Afterwards, Jean grumbles that the lace is damp and uncomfortable now, tugging at it with a scowl. Jeremy can't help but proudly smile
âIâll rinse them out,â Jeremy offers as he heads off to grab a towel for him, voice bright with affection. Halfway to the bathroom, he does a little twirl, sends Jean a kiss and an exaggerated wink through a mirror, and Jean can only roll his eyes while feeling hopelessly fond of him.
"Leave yours on" he calls. "I want to ride you on them next."
Jeremy grins. He's no one to argue with that.

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Cat and Laila buying this for Jean.
Since yesterday, I've been thinking about Service Top Jeremy. I'm assuming that, by now, my efforts to fill up the bottom Jean tag are very clear, so it might appear that I'm leaving poor Jeremy in the background, but I promise that is not the case. People have more of a negative reaction to Jean bottoming than they usually have for Jeremy toppingâthough, of course, there are those who do dislike that as wellâso it has seemed more natural for me to want to put more into the bottom Jean space to try and make it more welcoming and friendlier. YET! (service) Top Jeremy deserves as much love and attention, so this one is for him.
Oh, my lovely, lovely Jeremy. Such a complex character, continuously toeing the line between genuine kindness and people-pleasing. For Jeremy's sex life, this dichotomy can lead us to one of two understandings: either Jeremy is not a 'service' anything and he is using sex as another method of people-pleasing, or he is actually a service top who does find the tangible pleasure of his partner a multiplier of his own pleasure, but he has twisted it into a toxic, people-pleasing shape it is not meant to be. I, of course, am of the belief it is the latest. But instead of making this some sort of debate in support of Jeremy as a service top, I'm taking the fact that he is one for granted and going deeper into the evolution of how that works in his relationship with Jean, because there is no way it stays the same. Jeremy is not walking into this as the seasoned expert. He is walking into this just as lost, just in different ways, with different wounds. And THAT is what I really want to get into (and regarding this topic of 'Jeremy's genuine kindness vs. people-pleasing,' I do want to eventually write a separate post that is not limited to sexual dynamics).
While it is a given that Jean will struggle at the beginning of their sexual relationship for reasons that have been discussed and will continue to be discussed âand have to be, don't get me wrongâI think Jeremy will struggle too, in a different way. Jeremy has a lot of sexual experience, but most of itâexcept for maybe his short relationship with Leoâhas been non-reciprocal and transactional. There is pleasure involved: the physical sensations are real, and the satisfaction of being good at it is real. He's enjoying parts of these encounters... Yet, sex with these men is on the people-pleasing side of the spectrum. It is "I will make it good for you because that's what I do and need you to be happy with me." None of these men care about Jeremy, and not in a "Jeremy gets to finish" way but as someone who is invested in Jeremy feeling good from beginning to end, who tracks it, and who wants it. And Jeremy has been fine with that. The wanting to give is real â that part has never been a performance â but instead of it being healthy, he has learned to wrap it around his wounds and lock away everything else.
These encounters are also very routine. Jeremy knows the ways to give pleasure, and he's good at them. He knows which buttons to touch; he can probably do it with his eyes closed, to be honest. Come, get them off; get off; leave. Easy, normal, predictive (and regret-filled).
And then, Jean comes in like a wrecking ball (Miley-Cyrus.gif).
Jeremy is often portrayed like Jean's teacher of all things sex. I don't think this is necessarily a lie, but in the beginning Jeremy would probably default to the patternsâattentive, accommodating, focused on Jeanâbut Jean is not "just another guy"; he's Jean, and Jeremy's old formula doesn't quite work the same. Just being allowed this, with Jean, is a privilege Jeremy doesn't take for granted. And between navigating their trauma, discussions of consent, Jean's lack of experience, and this being so new for both of them, it is a learning curve.
The first time Jean asks Jeremy what he wants, it hits Jeremy like a foreign concept. He genuinely canât remember the last time anyone asked him that. So he responds, "To make you feel good, of course," and he probably even smiles when he says it, because that's what Jeremy does. But then Jean follows it with a quiet, devastating, and what else? And everything stops. Jeremy goes quiet. Heâs never been given the space to form an answer. The slow realization that he has spent so long perfecting how to give that he forgot to ask himself why. And that those are not the same question at all. The thing is, he does love it. The giving. That part has never been a lie; there is something that lights up in him when he knows he's getting it right, when he can feel his partner unraveling because of him. But somewhere along the way he decided that was enough. That wanting anything beyond that â to be seen, to be asked, to matter to someone from beginning to end â was asking for too much. So he kept the part he felt he'd earned and quietly let go of the rest. They don't have sex that day.
Or imagine something happens: a trigger, something that they try that Jean doesn't quite enjoy, Jeremy saying the wrong thing... Whatever it was, Jean doesn't come. Jeremy's reflex would spike, the anxiety would show, and it would be something else for them to work on. No, Jean didn't get an orgasm, but also, no, it is not Jeremy's fault, and it is fine. Except Jeremy has to actually believe that. Not smile and say of course while the partner-pleasure meter in his head keeps running and he feels like he's going into debt. But to actually sit with the fact that his value in this room is not contingent on the outcome. That is its own mountain to climb. And he does, in time.
Because as Jean learns more about himself and his body and Jeremy gets used to having someone who sees and cares about him as a person whose experience matters, who gets full attention and care, I see them moving into something like a Jean power bottom era. Jean now knows what he likes and how he likes it, and he's open to asking for it. So he does. And Jeremy follows. And this is such a great experience because it doesn't only mean that Jean is empowered but also that Jeremy gets instructions on how to maximize his partner's pleasure. He can let go of control because that's Jeremy being freed from labor he was never supposed to be carrying alone, by himself. He still gives, but now that giving is also a consideration of his own needs. This is another type of vulnerability, while, at the same time, getting that bone-deep satisfaction of being good to his partner. Healthy, genuine giving.
Then, Jeremy might want to take the lead again. Now he knows Jean almost as much as Jean knows himselfâhe knows the specific rhythm Jean responds to, the particular way his breathing changes, what makes him tense up, and what makes him let go completely. They have been making a map of Jean together all this time, and now he wants to use it. But it's not just Jean's map anymore. Jeremy has been working on one of his ownâlearning the pathways of what he actually wants and what actually feels like hisâand now he can see where the two meet, where they overlap, where they light each other up. He knows Jean. He finally knows himself. Now he feels confident that he can take some control and figure out new ways, inside their boundaries, to truly make Jean melt. "I love you, I know you, I know what you like, and I want to give it to you because I know it will make you feel as good as it will make me feel." And Jean, who has spent so long learning to trust his own body, now gets to discover what it feels like to trust Jeremy with it completely, to actually let go, because it's Jeremy, because he's safe.
Then, finally, sweet, sweet balance. Sometimes Jean leads, sometimes Jeremy does. And Jeremy gives because he wants to, because Jean is right there wanting it back, and because this is what it was always supposed to feel like. All the parts Jeremy had quietly decided he wasn't allowed to want. Turns out he was wrong about that. Turns out Jean had very strong opinions about it, too: about Jeremy being seen, about Jeremy getting to have things, about Jeremy mattering from beginning to end. Neither of them came into this knowing how to do it right. Jean had to learn his own body, his own voice, his own right to want things. Jeremy had to learn that giving was allowed to feel like something real instead of something owed. They might have taken a while, but they found their own way together. And that is the beauty of it all.