Having weird taste since 1990

They tried to kill us, but they did not succeed. And we owe so much thanks to the other oppressed peoples, in particular the Choctaw Nation and the Masai, who sent money and grain to us.

Let me repeat that. The Choctaw Nation who had just gone through the Trail of Tears sent us money to try save Irish lives. It’s led to an understanding between Irish people and Native American tribes, most recently when we donated to the Navajo and Hopi fundraisers for COVID-19 relief, because while it may be a different tribe, Irish people will never forget those who helped us and we’ll help back.

The entire population of the island is less than seven million people. We’re still a million less on this island than pre famine. And it’s not that long ago. My grandmother’s grandparents lived through it. We’ve told the stories, it literally changed the DNA of the country. We have a national fear of renting, because so many people were evicted. People joke about Irish people always offering loads of food, but it’s because there’s that cultural memory of not being able to.

@the-writer1988

You know, @twotangledsisters had a theory about this one that stuck with me; I can't remember it exactly, but the gist of it is that rather than swapping personalities because let's be real personalities are more complicated than that, it brings up a side of the character they tend to keep buried. I like this because I think it fits really well (Eugene being anxious, Cap being childish, etc.). But what does it say about Cass? Mood Potion Cass is carefree. She's overly cheery. It's not that she can't be happy or show that she cares about people; she just does it differently. And she's less in your face about it.

The impression I get is that Cass doesn't allow herself to be carefree. Why would she? In a way, she's been "at work" since she was a child, constantly striving to win others' approval. Four-year-old Cass isn't shown running around playing. She's quiet. She does chores. Between that and the kind of person she is, I doubt she'd allow herself to be the peppy young woman we see in "Not in the Mood"...

Except once. That's where "You're Kidding Me" comes in. Not only is this the first appearance of BABY CASS:

But she is a handful. Certainly a far cry from the little girl we see in flashbacks. @the-writer1988 asked:

Is Cassandra as a child in You’re Kidding Ne reflective of what she was really like as a child after she’d settled with the Captain?

Let’s talk about Great Tree and Destinies Collide! This may be a long one so strap in!

Tagging @the-writer1988

What do these episodes contribute to Cassandra's arc?

These are arguably the two most important episodes of Cassandra’s arc in season 2. Great Tree is so powerful in the sense that it gives Cassandra and Rapunzel a conflict that they can’t come back from. Both figuratively and literally, Rapunzel hurt Cassandra and that is gonna stay with the both of them forever.

Yes, forever, because to heck with what Sonnenburg says about Cassandra’s hand being healed in PEEV. That’s a copout and it’s ridiculous.

Destinies Collide is of course the very beginning of her villain arc. I remember when I first saw this episode, I was so shocked (no seriously) and lowkey furious that I had to wait a whole year to figure out what was going on. Cause season two did a good job of showing that yes, Cass was gonna betray Rapunzel, but the real mystery was WHY.

At what point does Cassandea decide to betray Rapunzel?

This is actually a very tough one to answer in my opinion so I’m very curious to see what other people have to say about this.

Cause Cassandra’s face when she opens the door at the end of Rapunzeltopia doesn’t come off to me as “I’m gonna betray you”. That’s more like a “You are the last person I wanna see right this second.” Even when she speaks, she sounds resigned and tired more than she sounds angry and bitter.

And there’s not really a moment at all in season 2 where I feel like you can pinpoint “yep, that’s it, that right there is when she decided.”

I personally believe that even if Cassandra has agreed to Zhan Tiri’s plan, she was constantly back and forth on whether she would actually do it until they were all in the moonstone chamber. Even in there you don’t see her getting ready to take it until after Rapunzel has said her “goodbyes”. Cause she had to have been moving fast enough that Eugene couldn’t stop her.

Why was it so easy for Zhan Tiri to manipulate Cassandra considering how much she distrusted Eugene? Wouldn't Cassandra be less inclined to believe a ghost?

Something I feel like a lot of people forget is the circumstances of Cassandra trusting Zhan Tiri vs not trusting Eugene. When Eugene and Rapunzel came along, Cassandra was in her right mind. By the time Zhan Tiri comes along, Cassandra is at one of the lowest points in her life and Zhan Tiri is willing to take full advantage of that. I saw someone do an analysis about this years ago and it was super interesting.

And that’s another thing, Eugene was never out trying to manipulate Cassandra either, he just wanted to be civil or not want anything to do with her at all. Zhan Tiri is a textbook cult leader, looking for an alienated victim that no one would really miss and exploiting the victims insecurities by making them think that the cult leader is somehow “better” than their social circle. See, the friends don’t understand but the cult leader does. They see the value in the victim.

And there’s also the fact that Zhan Tiri does what none of the gang ever thought to do at any point in the show.

Zhan Tiri apologized and validated Cassandra’s trauma. She didn’t make it out like she was responsible for it, she just said “I’m sorry, that sucked, you shouldn’t have gone through that.”

Is there anything Rapunzel or Eugene could have done to stop Casssndra betraying Rapunzel?

Meh, yes and no. I think if they had both listened to Cassandra more in season 2 Cassandra would be way less likely to betray them, but it might not have been rendered fully impossible either.

Also if they had actually helped her with her hand. Oh god or that bit in Mirror Mirror where Eugene was like “But in our defense, we never listen to you!”.

That was just rubbing lemon juice in the wound at that point, he should not have said that like it’s some kind of defense. I honestly think Lance saved Eugene’s life by intervening.

Did Cassandra have a goal when she took the Moonstone?

No, I think her whole plan was just grab the moonstone, yell at Rapunzel, and then leave. In fact I think if Zhan Tiri hadn’t been manipulating her Cassandra wouldn’t have even gone back to Corona.

Should Rapunzel have given Cassandra the chance to stop Hector at the Great Tree?

See, it didn’t even need to be Rapunzel giving Cassandra the chance per se.

Plenty of her hair is still free and it’s literally right there. Rapunzel could easily have grabbed the spear herself. Obviously Cass still would’ve felt a little slighted, but probably less slighted than Rapunzel using the decay incantation because it would’ve been Cassandra’s idea that Rapunzel was using.

But as much as people have debated about it, I do like that about Great Tree. I like the fact that were was no real good option, not even the decay incantation.

Do you think Rapunzel's love for Eugene to save him at the Great Tree is a contributing factor to Cassandra's fall? Cassandra later uses Eugene against Rapunzel in S3... Do you think Cassandra feels second best?

In the long run….kinda no? I don’t think it was a major contribution to Cassandra’s villain arc per se. But this is an underlying…I don’t wanna call it a problem but this is an issue throughout the show. When Eugene is in mortal danger, Rapunzel PANICS. She panics and goes berserk and presses the first nuclear button she can find to get him out of danger. And this is very clearly a trauma response to him dying because she really, REALLY doesn’t wanna watch him die again. I think it really traumatized her more than she realizes and I don’t think she and Eugene ever talk about it.

Cause look at that face.

That is a desperate woman. Everyone’s in danger, but the show makes a point of showing Eugene in pain, making you hear Eugene’s cries.

And Cassandra knows that full well, and tried to exploit that panic in CR….and then got her butt whooped.

And this isn’t even a life or death thing, even in lesser scale issues like her hair growing back in what the hair. Rapunzel prioritizes Eugene’s comfort over Cassandra’s livelihood.

LET'S DISCUSS Rapunzel and the Great Tree and Destinies Collide!

What do these episodes contribute to Cassandra's arc?

At what point does Cassandea decide to betray Rapunzel?

Why was it so easy for Zhan Tiri to manipulate Cassandra considering hiw much she distrusted Eugene? Wouldn't Cassandra be less inclined to believe a ghost?

Is there anything Rapunzel or Eugene could have done to stop Casssndra betraying Rapunzel?

Did Cassandra have a goal when she took the Moonstone?

Should Rapunzel have given Cassandra the chance to stop Hector at the Great Tree?

Do you think Rapunzel's love for Eugene to save him at the Great Tree is a contributing factor to Cassandra's fall? Cassandra later uses Eugene against Rapunzel in S3... Do you think Cassandra feels second best?

I am reading Tim Curry’s 2025 memoir, Vagabond

and in it, he not only devotes a chapter to Muppet Treasure Island, but also references this very post

so, to recap

no, Tim Curry is absolutely NOT a Muppet; however

I think if Varian had a terrible time and was being abused in jail, then he would only feel more vindicated in his anger. Especially with Andrew in his ear likely validating and feeding his rage and resentment. But if he’s treated fairly, or even somewhat comfortably, that gives him time and opportunity to see the error in his ways and feel guilt. It’s not necessarily a hatred towards the crown that motivated him in season two, it was his guilt. (Well, there was still a little hatred for Rapunzel left in his angry lil heart, but with how quickly he reconciled with her, I think that had mostly cooled when they reunited.)

I agree completely. I can't picture the Captain allowing that. I could see some guards holding a grudge against Varian for what he did, particularly the ones who were injured by Were-Ruddiger, but I can't imagine the Captain allowing him to be beaten and tortured. Nor do I imagine every single guard would want to do it. We're talking about a teenager, after all.