Bad English Shipper

Prefacing this by saying that I'm multitasking right now & talking to someone else while typing this so it might be a bit messy and disorganized but I wanted to get my thoughts out before I forget them.

I've been seeing a lot of "not every villain needs to be redeemed/let villains be villains" being stated a lot on reddit lately. Especially in regards to Azula. "You say that you like villains but you don't want Azula to be evil." Is another sentiment that I see often.

In response to that I would like to point out that your (general) "this villain needs to stay a villain" might be someone else's only villain that they want redeemed. For me Azula is that villain in a sea of my favorite characters that I want redeemed. I think that Icy from Winx and Nerissa from W.i.t.c.h. would be worse off if they got redemption. Kuvira is a character I could see staying a villain and I wouldn't have minded if she did. Azula is the villain who I think doesn't need to stay evil. I think that her story could work well either way so long as the writing is done right. The problem is that (imo) the way that they are writing her lack of redemption is being completely fumbled. Obviously I'd prefer she did get a redemption but if written well I wouldn't hate it as much if they didn't redeem her. But I genuinely think that her story would be better and more profound and more satisfying if she was redeemed. I love villains but I also love anti-heros and watching my favorite villains struggle and claw their way to a redemption like Regina.

But I digress. The point is; The one villain you think shouldn't have a redemption is someone else's one villain who should. The reverse is true too--the one villain you think should have a redemption might be someone else's one villain who shouldn't.

So yeah, I want Azula to have, not necessarily a redemption arc, but any arc where she becomes a better person, because that's actually the only way I can imagine her story continuing in a way that's worthwhile and interesting to be told. It would be really hard to keep selling her as a villain, as you can see in the clear way the comics failed. So if not for a redemption arc, I think it would've been better for them to have straight up stopped focusing on her character after the show ended.

@evilkitten3

She was the daughter of refugees, born and raised within Ba Sing Se. It could have been really interesting to see her reconcile her perception of the Fire Nation from the stories told in quiet by her parents, the hand wavy claims of the city, and her personal experience with Zuko with each other!

But no. Her parents were presumably murdered by the Fire Nation but because two guys specifically didn't kill her that means that they're not all bad :)

Could be interesting fanfic material, because it is easy to write with cartoon in the mind with all of that "Azula always lies", "Put her in her place", "Girls are crazy", "She's crazy and needs to be put down" etc.

I don’t think it's any use arguing whether Azula should be/deserves to be redeemed anymore. That's always just going to be up to who is writing her, whether it's Yang deciding she doesn't or Hicks leaving it ambiguous. Plenty of fans and fanfiction authors have done that for themselves.

Maybe we should ask ourselves what we would do if we were in the Avatar world, not what Zuko or Aang would do, what each of us as an individual would do to deal with Azula, how we would react, knowing all we know about her.

Azula is not a likeable person, and her cruel streak personally disgusts me. That said, I can't in good conscience condemn a teenager to a life of imprisonment, torture, or just death. Get her a lot of therapy, get her a lot of support, and keep a very close eye on her though.

There are people both real and fictional, some in Atla and Tlok, that have done worse for longer. There are villains worse than Azula still given a chance to change by the heroes and forgiven by the fans.

Could you expand on this?

There's this belief that Azula's story should've ended at Sozin's Comet. Her role in the narrative had ended and shouldn't be picked up in continuations. That her story was a tragedy and should be left at that. A "metaphorical death" you might say.

Now, I'm not really the argumentative type, so I will concede to a few things. On the one hand, yes. Azula's role in the narrative ended during Sozin's Comet. There was little way of squeezing anything more out of her character without causing the story to drag. Particularly within the three-season structure the show was based around (regardless of whether or not there were supposed to be four seasons, we ultimately got three). Her story was a tragedy, and some stories should be left unsatisfying. Particularly one like hers.

This...is where I need to diverge a bit. And this is why.

To begin, Azula's end was unsatisfactory for me personally. Yeah yeah yeah. I know that not every story has to be satisfactory and whatnot. A lot of novels and movies don't necessarily have a satisfying or fulfilling ending. The Great Gatsby. Dune. Moby Dick. I'm fine with those. They were BUILT on being tragedies or being unsatisfying. Sometimes, there can be a downer ending if it's handled well or if it drives home some kind of point. And I guess it could be argued that Azula's end DOES drive some point home about the toxicity of molding your whole self around another's ideals and wants. That I'm not going to argue with.

Here's what bothers me though: Azula was 14.

She was 14, and the narrative wrote her off as being irredeemable and left her broken. THAT'S what bothers me.

ATLA, when it came to most of the cast, made it clear that these kids were forced to do things that they really shouldn't be doing. Fighting wars. Being forced to grow up. Sacrificing what made them them. Those aren't just words, they're built in the narrative. We see this with practically the whole cast. Aang even brought attention to it when he was surprised Zuko was a teenager.

Azula was the big, glaring exception. At the end of the day, she was a broken teen who didn't have a chance. Believing that her story should end so tragically...I can't accept it. That's a bridge too far. In a series about always seeing the light at the other end of the tunnel or how things can get better, it never sat right with me that she never got a chance. You can say she's a villain all you want, but it's not going to change my view. In a perfect world, her story shouldn't have ended there. And to insinuate that it should...I think it would break the story in half.

Think about it. A series that advocates for reformation and rehabilitation for the Fire Nation doesn't extend that same goodwill to somebody who was essentially trapped in an unwinnable position. This isn't saying Azula was a saint or didn't do anything bad when not directly under Ozai's thrall. Yet by that same token, we shouldn't hold Zuko to an impossible standard when he also did a lot of horrible stuff when he was banished and thus not under Ozai's control. The point I'm trying to make is Azula shouldn't have metaphorically "died" at the end. She shouldn't disappear from Zuko's life following her defeat or essentially become a footnote in somebody else's story.

Especially since Zuko is now Fire Lord. AKA, the person who's in charge of essentially reforming his country. You can't exactly ignore the person who's essentially one big allegory for everything that was wrong with the Fire Nation when you're supposed to be in charge of rehabilitating it.

And here's another point:

My issues with Azula's ending is basically a culmination of all the poor writing decisions with Book 3 as a whole. Lack of development for the Fire Nation characters outside of Zuko. Missed opportunities for character interactions like Ozai with Iroh. Hell, Zuko's redemption in of itself which I honestly saw half-baked in the end where he hadn't really fulfilled his transformation into a figure that everyone has in their head. All of that culminated with Azula's breakdown and handling post-canon. To me, writing her out of the story at that point is taking the easy way out and not addressing the criticisms that the franchise has struggled with ever since ATLA ended.

You know, I wanted to start this post by insinuating how morally reprehensible it would be for Zuko to be responsible for Azula's metaphorical "death". That a character who's supposed to be a good guy shouldn't do essentially the same thing the villains did, that is Zuko destroying Azula like Ozai destroyed her. And maybe it is just some meager way of trying to have some form of control over something that's completely out of my hands. As somebody who saw so much of myself in her, I needed to speak out because the show never let her speak out. Or maybe I just got tired of people praising the Last Agni Kai or it being shoved in my face all the time when it actually gave me a lot of emotional turmoil growing up.

I wanted to lash out so badly because after all these years, I genuinely felt like the other of the fandom. The one possible reminder that ATLA's ending wasn't as good as we remembered.

But, I figured, why not explore why I felt that instead of lashing out. Cause, again, in a vacuum, if things were just a little bit different (perhaps if they stuck to the original idea of Azula being Zuko's older brother), it would have worked. And it HAS worked in quite a few stories. Again, Paul Atreides from Dune. Captain Ahab. Ramses from Prince of Egypt. These are characters that have unsatisfying endings, but still work since the writing did a lot to highlight the tragedy of it all. It didn't work with Azula because her tragedy wasn't highlighted. Her lack of choice wasn't built on. And it felt more like a villain getting what she deserves than a teenager being stuck in a truly awful position. Simply put, I felt there was more to tell that was squandered.

But also, the idea of rejecting a helping hand is true...for Zuko. Aang, Katara, Iroh, they all offer him a chance at redemption and he brutally denies them every time. When he actually redeems himself, he and he alone chooses that.

weaponizing child abuse and harassing actual survivors of those types of abuse to feel morally superior

no kataang was not cocsa and stating it is trivializes it,especially with how often k/a antis write sagas of aang sa'ing katara yet somehow kataangers are the ones into it as a kink

and yes azula was a victim of ableism and grooming,she has psychosis textually and for all the 'narcissist' insults she genuinely does show all the symptoms of npd

you aren't as woke as you think you are

"When did I lose Azula?"

How about when YOU ignored her except when she did something bad, openly played favorites with her and Zuko and left her at the hands of Ozai?.

Then she needs to go, and make it permanent. The worst thing that could happen to her character is to be endlessly reused when she already served her purpose narratively. Prison, into hiding, death, idk but just keeping her around as a villain just because she was popular in the main series is a one way ticket to ruining her character.

Forgive me a moment while I go on a rant. (who am I kidding? No one reads my blog.)

But I've been thinking a lot about Azula lately and how canon treats her. Hell, how fandom treats her and talks about her and why, exactly, it just rubs me the wrong way.

I've read maybe one depiction of Azula that addressed her mental illness in a somewhat realistic/respectful way? Everything else either writes her off or just kind of hand waves her issues away and it bothers me.

Putting that aside though, and just looking at Azula in canon there's a very specific issue that rubs me the wrong way when it comes to how Bryke treats Azula as a character- and it's similar to how other stories treat villains. Where they just write them as 'evil and crazy' and don't give a reason beyond 'well they were born as a sociopath/without a soul/they're just a psycho'.

And that's offensive. It is, and I'm not really one to get offended about things but this kind of writing when it comes to legitimate mental illness is very offensive.

Don't get me wrong ATLA is a work of art, and intentional or not the depiction of Azula's trauma and mental breakdown was really well done. It's specific scenes of her as a child in the show and the comics (god I hate the comics, don't even get me started) that just give me the ick becuase it feels like they're retroactively attempting to write her as having ASPD, or Antisocial Personality Disorder which is a very specific disorder.

So for context, I work in Behavioral Health. I worked as a crisis youth peer counselor and I currently work in Advocacy specifically for people in psychiatric institutions. Behavioral health, mental illness, these aren't vague things for me. They're not just 'crazy' there's something specific going on and it can't just be written off as 'well their dad was abusive so now they're crazy'.

What's worse though is that in canon they give us very specific behaviors with Azula that point to a very specific kind of mental illness and trauma.

On the surface level, yes, ASPD could fit her; she's aggressive and manipulative and seemingly lacks all empathy. And if you took her out of context then yeah, that would fit an ASPD diagnosis. But you can't take Azula out of context. Her behaviors are specific to her culture and trauma and background.

We're shown that growing up she was specifically rewarded for using her firebending in destructive ways. Hurting things/people/places, displaying power over others was how she gained her father's love/approval. It was probably the first lesson she ever learned. And given the family dynamic of Ozai exerting power and influence over others, their mother specifically, Azula rightfully identified Ozai as the more powerful parent and the one who's approval she needed to earn. So she did in the only way available to her; hurting people/places/things, hurting her brother. It probably hurt and confused her a great deal that her mother was so horrified by this behavior. Behavior she specifically engaged in because her father had shown her that this was the Correct Way to Be. Zuko was the stupid one who didn't seem to get it.

I won't even get into how harmful it must have been that Ursa showed such obvious preference and affection towards Zuko. And yes that was likely a machination on Ozai's part, but Azula wouldn't have understood that at the time.

Looking at her behavior later shows us a very specific and alarming pattern. Azula hurts her dolls. In extreme and disturbing ways; she cuts their hair off, their heads off, burns them, pulls them apart.

Even later than that we're shown that Azula doesn't like looking at herself in the mirror. She explicitly avoids it at all times, and then during her breakdown when she attacks her own hair...I mean that alone is such a raw, visceral display of her internal world. Her desire for her mother's approval, but deeper than that her desire to be saved.

She doesn't have language for it. She doesn't know how to ask. But Azula is a character who craves connection, who craves safety and belonging but has no context for how to go about it. So she uses fear. She uses the tools her father gave her. Control, possess, dominate.

The Beach episode is such an important episode when it comes to Azula's characterization. We see that she does care. She cares about her friends. She cares about her brother. She cares how she is seen and percieved by others. She cares that her mother didn't love her.

I'm not a therapist so I'm not going to try and diagnose her but from what we see in canon Azula is a character who was a victim of CSA, and I can and do say that with confidence as a victim of CSA. She's also, looking at that Beach episode, probably some flavor of neurodivergent. She struggles to relate to others, and she uses scripts in all her interactions. She plans out everything meticulously, her appearance, her speeches, how people should react. And when people don't react the way she anticipated she crashes out. Hard.

Azula deserved a redemption arc. She deserved a soft landing and room to heal in the narrative. The line that Iroh gives when he's like 'no, she's crazy and she needs to go down' was always so odd to me. Iroh, the character who is so wise and caring and empathetic...is writing off his own neice. She's fourteen. She's destructive and dangerous yes, but she's obviously not okay and Iroh more than anyone should have seen that.

I personally headcanon that Iroh is a very calculating character. He's a pai sho master, he manipulates people a lot. Perhaps for altruistic goals, sure. But I think it's deeper than that. He see's in Zuko a reflection of his own failure to save his son - and further to save his brother Ozai before Ozai was twisted by Azulon. Azula though, Iroh see's himself at his very worst. All his worst mistakes, his worst qualities reflected back at him.

I think people forget a lot that Iroh was Ozai's older brother. He was the heir to the Fire Nation, he was the Conqueror of Ba Sing Se. He was not a good guy. He became a good guy, sure, later. We meet him as a dotty old man, someone who manipulates his nephew out of love and regret. Someone who takes advantage of his circumstances at every single opportunity. He's a deeply flawed man and that makes him so, so interesting at a character. I'm so disappointed we never got more of him and Azula interacting with one another.

zukowife85: (starts frothing at the mouth) ZuKo MoRe PoPulAR thAn AazUla

zuko stans too stupid to refute your points so their insecure dumbasses turn shit into some dick measuring contest, funny how they act like azula isn't also a popular character that they're constantly threatened by 😂✌️

Everything they say to try and cope always makes the show worse, like the idea that azula could never have beaten zuko in the last agni kai because he was that good because

A) it removes all stakes and tension and really does just look like a man beating up his younger sister

And

Like please understand I do not mean this in a princess molestia way or even in a “my little sister is so cute I wanna fuck her” way. When I say ‘Celestia tops’ I mean it in the generous, willing, overly-devoted service top way. I mean it in the way I think Rarity tops. Which is giving every single thing she has until she collapses or until her partner is satisfied. I mean it in an unhealthily okay with doing any wacko shit their sub comes up with way.

This question is strange to me. "without going through anything as extremely heart wrenching as losing a son as Iroh did" hasn't she already? Several times? I'm so sorry, but losing one's mother, watching one's brother be mutilated, and being wrongfully institutionalized and abused is more than comparable to Iroh losing a son in the siege that he waged. I'll still answer it with two responses.

A) Whether or not trauma serves as a catalyst for change doesn't make someone less of a better person.