Zuko-Always-Lies

Black and white pieces are $60 and Color pieces are $85!

thanks so much if you read all of this, sorry its probably a lot i love analyzing atla LOL . i hope you're well! -🧸

Hey, never apologize for overanalyzing, 🧸.

I must apologize for taking forever to get this drafted and posted. Been running on caffeine, fumes and prayers. So this will be excruciatingly disorganized.

Responding to each of the takes...

•Point 1: (In)consistency.

It's such a headache trying to keep track of all the times the show seems to change it's mind on how to present Iroh. Every other character seems a lot more solid in their characterization.

I'll make a post about it eventually.

•Point 2: "Destiny is a funny thing."

I plan on making this aspect of Iroh's characterization it's own post eventually.

That being said;

The word "destiny" and it's varients are one of the most frequently used in the show. It really loses its meaning when "destiny/destinies/destined" are said a combined total of... 41 times, I believe.

And, as Aunt Wu said to Aang in [S1EP14 The Fortuneteller];

"I'll tell you a little secret, young airbender. Just as you reshaped those clouds, you have the power to shape your own destiny."

Iroh deciding Zuko's destiny is the throne has no merit. It really does not. It contradicts the entire show (and Iroh's speech), no?

•Point 3: Trauma & Responsibility.

This one is the most sensitive to discuss. Even though I have experienced a vast range of emotions and hardships that can help me understand Zuko and Iroh (particularly Zuko), I cannot speak for their exact upbringing, environmental, political and philosophical influences.

Not to compare trauma, of course, but I'll try to list both character's potential traumas first.

Iroh's trauma:

•Losing Lu Ten.

•Almost losing Zuko several times. (Emotionally and in terms of near-death experiences)

•Supposedly feeling ashamed over his time spent as general and Dragon of the West.

•Having been imprisoned a few times.

•Uh, what else? Genuinely, I have trouble thinking of specific moments. I'll add them later if/when I do remember.

Zuko's trauma:

•Having been established the hated child his whole life.

•Never had his own friends growing up.

•Feelings of insecurity and failure plagued his young mind.

•Lost his mother (Safe place).

•Shamed for showing mercy and respect toward soldiers.

•Forced to duel his own father instead of a general.

•Was scarred physically at the hand of his own father after pleading for forgiveness.

•Was burned in front of the entire royal court.

•Was banished unless he completes a task thought to be impossible.

•Three years of desperately hunting a way to get back home.

•Gets his hopes up several times only for them to be crushed.

•Many, many injuries.

•Many near death experiences.

•Constantly pushing his body to it's limit in hopes of achieving his goals.

•A deep-seated need for validation.

•Had the possibility of going home dangled in front of his face, wrapped in lies.

•Constantly pinned against his own sister, whom remaind a perceived obstacle and psychological threat, by Ozai, Iroh and himself.

•Nearly killed by said sister a couple times.

•Severing ties of his former identity. (Temporarily)

•A need for independence without the emotional tools necessary to achieve it.

•Near starvation.

•Being rejected and shunned for his nationality and lineage despite his efforts to follow his moral compass.

•Forced to suppress his bending and identity and work customer service.

•That atrocious hairstyle Iroh gave him for his date with Jin.

•Giving up a brief moment of respite and the possibility of a simple life due to his complicated position.

•Moral and identity crisis.

•Chose "honor" over healing, trust and redemption whilst betraying his uncle and aiding in the killing of Avatar Aang.

•His own choices and the consequences there of.

•Saw his uncle imprisoned after his own betrayal.

•Having to meander around the abusive enviroment he'd grown up in again.

•Realized his return home made him feel emptier than exile.

•Feeling completely isolated despite his friend group and girlfriend's company.

•Lost his firebending (temporarily) due to his own inner turmoil. [S3EP13 The Firebending Masters]

•Had a tense political and relationship based arguement with his girlfriend (ex at the time?) and had to choose the mission over her.

•That Agni Kai against Azula.

•Anything that could have followed after him becoming Fire Lord.

And then the outcome of these things combined...

The outcome for Iroh:

•Pseudo-gaurdianship of Zuko.

•Effort to prioritize relaxation and comfort above all else, even duties.

•Controlled firebending.

•Avoidance of Fire Nation politics.

•Convoluted idealogy.

•Shifting loyalties.

•Stagnation framed as growth.

•Tea addiction.

The outcome for Zuko:

•One very conflicted moral compass.

•Anger issues.

•Lots of shame.

•Feeling inadequate.

•Disregarding his physical needs.

•Obsessive behavior.

•Deepened insecurity.

•Increased envy.

•Violent outbursts and tendencies.

•Impulse choice making.

•Perpetuated struggle with and against authority.

And now to list their responsibilities.

Iroh's responsibilities:

Firstborn son of Azulon, crown prince of the Fire Nation and heir to the throne.

Lu Ten's father.

Zuko's mentor and pseudo-father.

Atoning for his crimes.

Organizing with the White Lotus Order.

Zuko's responsibilities:

Atoning for his actions.

Making amends.

Aang's firebending teacher.

Restoring balance.

Leadership.

Guiding the next generation.

Wait a minute... No, Zuko's list of responsibilities doesn't look quite right.

Oh, right, Zuko's numbers [4, 5 and 6] were supposed to be Iroh's duties. Karmatic style, too. Meaning Iroh went against responsibilities [1, 3 and 4] on his list and avoided it by passing them onto Zuko. Not a good look.

And we all know how questionable the White Lotus is.

Additional notes on my thoughts of Point #3:

𓂃✍︎: Quick note: None of these are meant to sound dismissing of your points. My intended tone is nuetral. I have to clarify this as tone is a huge struggle for me.

but also i feel like while iroh has been zuko's mentor for most of the show (1), at the same time he's also had his own huge military career that he seems to regret (2), and seems to still be working through the loss of his son(3)

↑

This sounded a little too similar to "just raise them til they're 18, then they can provide for you in return." A child, biological, adopted, surrogate or pseudo, is a lifelong commitment. Not a tool. The parental figure must be willing to place their child's needs above their own. Especially a teenager, who is an abuse survivor among other life-altering traumas. Who does not yet possess the emotional regulation, maturity, experience, understanding and self-soothing habits necessary to carry such a heavy burden. Iroh, as the self proclaimed father and mentor figure, should not be putting his own relaxation above his chronically stressed nephew.

He had an establish career, understanding of said career, neither of which Zuko has, and years of atrocities to atone for. And what better way than to use that power for good? But he passed all the pressure onto Zuko so he can run away from it.

So he fates his surrogate-son to a life of constant stress? How is this supposed to heal either of them or honor Lu Ten's memory?

i think its a possible read that iroh ended up staying there because he has his own baggage and wanted his own gentle retirement after everything

↑

We all have baggage. We all want relief and comfort. But at the expense of others is an entirely selfish decision. If I abandoned my friends, whom I claimed to support, and whom have showed me deep trust and love, because "I want to start a botany in some remote town while you lot deal with the enviroments you got sick in" am I still a moral, loyal and wise person and friend?

he's also a person with a bunch of hard stuff in his life just like zuko and maybe him ditching zuko was more like, not purposeful manipulation but just an imperfect mentor figure who had his own wants and was healing from his own things too?

↑ About that.

Iroh's an adult. Zuko is a child. Iroh has contacts with fellow leader or mentor figures. Zuko does not. Iroh has political influence. Zuko does not, and any he did obtain, was not studied thoroughly beforehand. Iroh stays calm under pressure. Zuko crumbles emotionally, lashes out, internalizes shame or self-sabotages.

Was it purposeful? In terms of what the writers were doing, no. It was completely due to many, many oversights on their part. Is the interpretation some of it was intentional part of the canon? Also no. Is there room for speculation on the abstract concept of these characters for what their established stories entails?

Yes.

And the end of the day, like I said, never apologize for overanalyzing. Writing this whole thing, as messy as it was, has made me self reflect on my own behaviors, traumas, and experiences.

+ close ups

I woke up. This was supposed to be a post about Sokka's mischaracterization in "The Promise" but half way through writing it I realized that this abysmal dogshit of a comic deserves to be fully slandered.

Let's start with my biggest issue with "The Promise". Zuko. I can not stress enough how much I dislike Zuko in this comic. The ENTIRE arc of Zuko in ATLA was about realizing his father is a monster who has never loved him. By the end of ATLA he understands what kind of a monster Ozai is. He accepts Iroh as his father and moves on. And in "the promise" they just scrap that. Zuko goes for advice to Ozai, the madman who burned half of his face.

...

Ozai throws his usual tantrums about strenght supremacy and Zuko falls for it, which just completely undermines all of his development in ATLA. Get used to this because this comic just loves to do that. Zuko gets assaulted and nearly killed by an assasin who I'm going to slander in just a moment. Instead of imprisoning her, he hears her out like she didn't just try to kill him. He then gets manipulated by her and Ozai into not abandoning Yu Dao. We can argue about that being a good decision, but why the hell doesn't he try to resolve it peacefully? The comic justifies that by saying that Ozai poisoned his mind, which is my main issue. Zuko's arc in ATLA was about getting rid of Ozai's influence from his head, why the hell is he listening to him again 😭? Okay to sum it all up Zuko gets manipulated by a hormonal teenager and his abusive father into nearly starting a war without even talking it through with his friends, physically assaults Katara, attacks Aang, after talking to his friends he STILL nearly starts a war... please tell me I hallucinated this comic. It starts with Zuko asking Aang to kill him if he ever turns into his father and then going to his father to ask for advices in governing, are you shitting me??

My second biggest issue is Kori, the assasin girl. God I hate her. She nearly kills the ruler of her country who reformed the Fire Nation because he wanted them to move back to the homeland. Then, when Aang and Katara are trying to warn the Yu Dao residents that they are in danger and should evacuate she tries to kill them. I have no sympathy for her, I found myself rooting for Ozai more than for her. I wish Zuko made her share her cell with him, since the residents of Yu Dao loved Ozai so much.

My next issue is the mischaracterization of Aang and Katara. They are acting like Katara's actress in the ember island play. Hope! I'm so full of hope! They don't get angry or petty, even at the people who try to kill them. They are constantly curious and open minded which I just don't buy. I like these traits in them, but they are acting irrationally and OOC. When I saw the scene of Katara telling Aang that they may need to live apart for the first time, I didn't realize that she is talking about breaking up. Why? BECAUSE THAT MADE NO SENSE! Only a month later, after reading some Tumblr posts I realized she is talking about going their separate ways. This had no buildup and was just a random mean for the creators to rise the stakes, even if it meant mischaracterizing Katara. Nah but it's totally fine, the girl who saved Aang's life multiple times and was willing to die for him would leave him because of him supporting a different political option 🙃. I am NOT even going to mention the fact that Aang actually promised to kill Zuko, it's such a low hanging fruit that I'm not even touching it. Just no.

Note that my issue with Katara and Aang is that they are being too good and kind towards these people.

Last but not least, we have Sokka. I'll try to be quick with this one. Sokka's character was reseted back to his s1 self, including his hair cut. Sokka in the last episode of ATLA is mature, selfless and brave, yet in the comic he is back to being his immature self. The difference is collosal and it's weird for me that nobody is talking about how dirty this comic did Sokka.

My all time favourite [sadly incomplete for now]: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/6383825/1/Dominion

Avatar Azula [incomplete]: https://archiveofourown.org/works/13538664/chapters/31061085

Azula time travel : https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/discontinuity-atla-peggy-sue.1239155/

Ursa sends azula with one of her servants to kyoshi island to save her: https://archiveofourown.org/works/64495207/chapters/165619228#workskin

Azula-Zuko role-reversal: https://archiveofourown.org/works/40167396/chapters/100601151

A take on how things might go if Azula's bending is removed {OOC Aang}: https://archiveofourown.org/works/33705625/chapters/83772589#workskin https://archiveofourown.org/works/31954549

Zuko always looks for the worst possibility with Azula {Oneshot}: https://archiveofourown.org/works/85171246

Misunderstandings: https://archiveofourown.org/works/72759146

Azula and Jeong Jeong travel together: https://archiveofourown.org/works/49083757/chapters/123833110

Azula/Yue: https://archiveofourown.org/works/22269148/chapters/53178208

Iroh is a bit OOC, but a fun read: https://archiveofourown.org/works/84916221/chapters/224148541

Zuko accidently kills Ozai on the day of the black sun: https://archiveofourown.org/works/22399147/chapters/53516479

Azula is stuck in a time loop: https://archiveofourown.org/works/54856168

Ozai favours Zuko: https://archiveofourown.org/works/25474642/chapters/61793731

Fire sibling age swap AU: https://archiveofourown.org/works/23725126

Azulon survives: https://archiveofourown.org/works/43200837

Older sister Azula: https://archiveofourown.org/works/20565005/chapters/48818120

Zuko botches his escape: https://archiveofourown.org/works/19252807

Azula in Korra timeline: https://archiveofourown.org/works/32725777/chapters/81189241

Azula is executed, Phoenix azula: https://archiveofourown.org/series/2942226

Azula is banished with Zuko [incomplete]: https://archiveofourown.org/works/26551432/chapters/64724482

Azula in a time loop [incomplete]: https://archiveofourown.org/works/25232917/chapters/61164580

https://archiveofourown.org/works/50763784/chapters/235246146

Orga reigns supreme. Having taken Yu Dao (or what's left of it) as his capital, Azula and Team Avatar are forced to flee and regroup. They bring with them a prisoner, one of the spirit's servants. But why has Orga given them one of his own?

Read from the start!

The King Cometh Arc (Godzilla)

Up From the Depths

Relics from a Lost World

More Than Just a Legend

God of Destruction

Upon the Ruins

Dragon Slayers

Wrath

Awakening Mountains Arc (Godzilla, Anguirus, General Old Iron, Rodan)

8. Omens of Disaster

9. Farewells and Greetings

10. Of Spirits and Monsters

11. The Guardian Beast

12. Into the Nest

13. Clash of the Titans (Anguirus vs General Old Iron)

14. Let Them Fight (Godzilla vs Rodan)

Graveyard of Empires Arc (Godzilla, Mothra, Battra, Axor)

15: Old Wounds

16. Embers in the Wind

17. Infant Island

18. Mothra

19. When All You Have is a Dream

20. The Princess's Gambit

21. Abomination

22. Eyes in the Dark

23. Realm of the Storm King

24. Rage of the Storm (Godzilla vs Axor)

25. Yin and Yang (Mothra vs Battra)

Millennium Arc (Godzilla, Orga, General Old Iron, Rodan, Mothra, Anguirus, Battra)

26. Azula's Rage

27. Servum

28. Guilt

29. Primordial (Anguirus, Old Iron, and Rodan vs Orga)

30. Persecution of the Masses

31. In the Shadows of Gods

Ursa was able to see something odd with Azula

to justify Ursa's neglect towards Azula, you can just remove yourself from there.

ATLA is a series notable for having many ending scenes. There are at least five or six different scenes in the series finale that could have worked as an ending scene. One of them is a scene that is not particularly well remembered: Zuko visiting Ozai in his prison cell.

(Note before we begin: Just to be clear, Zuko is under no obligation to forgive Ozai or to somehow "redeem" him or anything like that.")

If you want to watch the full scene, you can.

Let us start out with the thematic element. It's pretty clear the main theme of this scene is the role reversal between Zuko and Ozai. Now Zuko is the one with all the power, while Ozai is completely powerless and dejected. Their roles have reversed. It's also not a coincidence that Ozai is in the same prison Iroh was imprisoned in. Perhaps this role reversal, of having Ozai stripped of everything and humiliated and forced to live in a world where Zuko has triumphed is something Zuko enjoys; the role reversal is definitely something I think the audience is expected to enjoy.

Moving beyond that, it is worth noting the conditions Ozai is imprisoned in. He's wearing tattered, low quality clothes in a small, nearly bare prison cell. Iroh got a small window in his cell at the Capital City Prison, but Ozai doesn't seem to. Overall, the prison cells seem significantly worse than the conditions we see at Boiling Rock Prison. There is another key difference evident from what we say at Boiling Rock and what we see here. There are some cruel practices at Boiling Rock, but the prisoners at Boiling Rock were not kept in solitary confinement, while at the Capital City Prison they seem to be. This alone would make the experiences of anyone confined here much worse.

Now let us turn to the conversation itself. Zuko flat out tells Ozai that, if it was up to Zuko, Ozai would be dead, and he's lucky that it ended being up to Aang instead. That's not to say there's any indication that Zuko particularly wants to execute Ozai, now that Aang has made his decision, but it does imply that Zuko won't have a strong objection to the idea. It's pretty clear Zuko has not forgiven Ozai (nor is Zuko obligated to forgive Ozai).

Zuko then gives an interesting line: "Banishing me was the best thing you could have done for my life. It put me on the right path. Perhaps your time in here could do the same for you."

How should we evaluate this statement? Well, it's interesting that Ozai immediately calls it out as BS, calls out that Zuko would never visit Ozai just to tell him that Zuko hoped Ozai could become a better person, and Ozai is right. Zuko is only talking to Ozai because Zuko needs information about something else entirely.

If we listen to the audio, Zuko doesn't exactly sound entirely convinced or sincere, and we should probably view what he says to Ozai as essentially an idle thought on Zuko's part. Certainly, if Zuko was actually serious about the idea, you'd think Zuko would take steps to make sure Ozai was treated better than he's being treated.

But what if we take what Zuko says more seriously? What kind of "theory of redemption" do we get? It sounds like Zuko believes that having everything stripped away, that being humiliated and reduced to nothing, is prerequisite for change and for "redemption." It's almost like Ozai's "suffering will be your teacher" comment. And, say, if there was another character Zuko was interested in "redeeming," he might think the best way to go about doing it is reducing them to nothing, just like Ozai did him.

Of course, Zuko is under no obligation to forgive Ozai or to try to "redeem" him or anything else. As Ozai is a prisoner in Zuko's custody, Zuko probably has some sort of obligation to see Ozai is treated too terribly, but that's it.

It's also not clear how much any of this would apply to anyone else. Zuko has a unique relationship with Ozai, and it's not clear if we can apply anything from it to how he would treat, say, Azula.

And from his perspective it even makes sense somewhat. Zuko himself says banishment {stripping him of everything} was the best thing Ozai could have done to him then him following that same logic with Ozai makes sense.

Black and white pieces are $60 and Color pieces are $85!

This goes for Azula/Ty Lee, Azula/Mai, Mai/Ty Lee, Azula/Katara, Mai/Katara, Ty Lee/Katara, Toph/Mai, Yue/Azula, etc.

I kind of wish that more lesbian Azula fanfics positioned lesbianism and homosexuality within a different, non-modern cultural and social context. There are quite a few ways that lesbianism could exist, be understood, etc. within the context of Fire Nation society but it’s very unlikely things would be like 2010s American society or even 1950s American society. It might not even be understood as a “sexual identity” as opposed to a behavior people engage in.

There’s actually a lot of ways Fire Nation culture could treat lesbianism:

The society could be highly homophobic with lesbianism illegal or socially taboo.

At the other extreme, lesbian marriage could be normal, but that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily treated the same way as in modern Western society. One possibility is that one partner in a lesbian couple is regarded as symbolically taking on a male role.

Society could just completely ignore the subject. There isn’t a taboo against lesbianism, but lesbian behavior has been completely ignored, period culturally.

There could be informal institutions liked “Boston Marriages” that are not perceived as sexual or romantic by broader society.

Lesbian behavior could be considered completely acceptable in some contexts (like between the wives/concubines of the same man) but not in most others.

Lesbian sex might just not be perceived as sex at all(since there’s no penis involved). It might be completely socially accepted but not be seen as “sex.”

Lesbianism might be perceived as a behavior, not as an identity. Lesbian sexual acts might be completely accepted (and maybe even encouraged in some contexts), precisely because they’re not seen as interfering with women’s reproductive and familial obligations. It’s actually quite unusual historically for societies to see gayness as an identity, rather than seeing particular sex acts as a behavior.

it all might depend entirely on social contexts.

the Fire Nation might generally view sex through power dynamics, with lesbianism fitting into this somehow.