‘A little learning is a dangerous thing’.

But as many of you (including me) are not based in the UK, you either have to use a VPN, but to make it easier for you all I screencast and recorded the audio. There were 2 items with some music in between

He talks about the ride in Galloway next Saturday, and later on about Outlander and Macbeth, mentions working in Germany recently. Most of it you already heard before

BUT, at the end the surprise! Another hint and adding up to my previous post! He's talking about 'a wee secret project, not a wee, something on a project that he can't tell you about, but I'm very excited about that...' I know you impatient ones here, so yeah I made a clip of the end part about this. (you can thank me later)

something on a secret project that he has to sign NDA's for.... 🤔

Echoes Through the Highlands

Sam Heughan and Caitríona Balfe, here as Claire and Jamie Fraser in 'Outlander,' spoke with THR, along with showrunner Matthew B. Roberts, about how they are digesting the series finale. Starz

Even Caitríona Balfe and Sam Heughan Don’t Know How to Interpret That ‘Outlander’ Ending

The stars and executive producers, joined by showrunner Matthew B. Roberts, open up to The Hollywood Reporter about alternate endings and Claire and Jamie Fraser’s ambiguous fate at the end of Starz’s long-running fantasy historical romantic drama: “They’re together, wherever they are.”

By Max GaoPlus Icon

May 15, 2026

[This story contains MAJOR spoilers from the series finale of Outlander, “And the World Was All Around Us.”]

Try as the universe might to keep them apart, Claire (Caitríona Balfe) and Jamie Fraser (Sam Heughan) were always destined to end up together on Outlander. But right up until the final moments of Starz’s long-running fantasy historical romantic drama, devoted viewers feared that their beloved 20th-century English combat nurse and 18th-century Scottish highland warrior were not going to get their happy ending after all.

In the May 15 series finale, as Claire’s first husband Frank Randall (Tobias Menzies) foretold in his 20th-century book about the history of Scots who settled in North Carolina, Jamie is tragically killed at the Battle of Kings Mountain in 1780. After spending almost the entire final season fearing that the book’s prophecy about Jamie would come true, Claire is unable to remove herself from her husband’s side on the battlefield, spending the rest of that day and night pouring all of her love and grief into his lifeless body.

Once she has resigned herself to the fact that she has lost the love of her life for good, Claire, whose hair has now turned grey, lies down beside Jamie and cradles his corpse. But shortly before the screen cuts to black one last time, the lovers can be seen and heard gasping for breath, suggesting that Claire has used her special healing abilities to save Jamie. The ending aligns with author Diana Gabaldon’s ninth Outlander book, Go Tell the Bees That I Am Gone, in which Claire seemingly uses her “blue light” — a mystical, supernatural healing power associated with certain time travelers — to save Jamie after he gets shot.

The actors, who just watched the finale for the first time days before it aired, are still trying to make sense of that ending for themselves. “This whole series has meant so much to us and been such a huge part of our lives that in a way, because we finished, it almost feels like maybe they should be together in another beautiful place — and maybe it should be heaven, or whatever heaven is to anybody,” Balfe tells The Hollywood Reporter of her theories about what happens to Claire and Jamie.

“I do want to leave it up for the viewer, but it depends on the day,” Heughan adds of his interpretation. “Some days I’m like, ‘You know what? They live and they go back to [Fraser’s] Ridge, and they live happily ever after.’ But part of me also is suspicious. I think that they are together, but they’re somewhere else. They’re perhaps in the afterlife, and that might be implied by the standing stone, but they’re happy and they’re together. I think that’s all that matters.”

After screening the series finale, THR spoke to stars and executive producers Balfe and Heughan and showrunner Matthew B. Roberts — who was particularly tight-lipped about that ending — in separate conversations on Thursday and Friday. Their chats have been edited into the extended conversation below.

***

Matt, the final season of Outlander was announced over three years ago, but you have clearly been ruminating about how to end this series for much longer than that. Given that you had to wrap up the show before you were able to adapt all of Diana Gabaldon’s books, how did you approach crafting your own ending?

MATTHEW B. ROBERTS In a weird way, season eight is still part of the books. It’s just not book 10 [Gabaldon’s final Outlander book], so [our final season] is not the end of the book series. We had material that covered season eight. Obviously, we had to adjust, but ultimately, we end pretty close to how those books end.

There was a very select few that I pitched the ending to — obviously, Diana and then the people who needed to know at the studio [Sony Pictures Television] and network [Starz]. Caitríona and Sam knew the idea of the ending from day one of shooting, so they knew where we were going. I certainly wanted to let them know, but we kept it very close to the vest. I wrote alternate endings. We scheduled scenes to be shot that we weren’t even going to shoot, just in case the call sheet went out [and was leaked to the public], so we played around with security quite a bit.

Caitríona and Sam, at what point did Matt clue you into his plans, and what was your reaction once you learned that he was going to end on this bittersweet note?

SAM HEUGHAN Matt kept it very close to his chest. Of course, there were times when we talked, and I pushed him as well. I made it very clear that the thing I wanted to see was Jamie’s ghost at the window [from the very first episode, when Frank catches Jamie staring at Claire through a window]. He assured me that we would see it, and we did. That was one of the most rewarding parts — to see that full-circle moment we see in episode one, and to know that it is Jamie but also perhaps explain a little bit about why he’s there. His ghost is revisiting her after his death. Jamie’s always going to be there for her. He even talks about it earlier on in the last episode about how he’ll look in on her and keep watch over her.

CAITRÍONA BALFE I obviously wasn’t on a need-to-know basis. (Laughs.) But we got the last scripts maybe a week before filming that block, and part of it was a dummy script, and he had told us that that ending wasn’t going to be the ending. To be honest, I don’t remember at what point we got the ending that we shot. We did shoot alternates about who opens eyes, does one eye open or another person’s eyes open. We knew there were always various ways Matt could edit it. I only saw the episode this week, so I’m still also trying to digest it. I feel like I’m still catching up a little.

HEUGHAN I think [we learned about] the actual final moment perhaps even days before [filming]. It was a long time coming. Jamie’s aware of his death. He knows he’s probably going to die on the mountain. He has experience with fate before and knows it’s really hard to change history. So I think he’s coming to terms with [his mortality] the whole season, as I was also coming to terms with the end of Outlander and Jamie’s journey.

Matt, you mentioned that you wrote some alternate endings for security reasons, but did you ever film any of them?

ROBERTS We didn’t fully shoot anything else. We pretended to shoot some and then we scheduled some. We had a couple takes of something, just in case we needed dailies. Nothing was actually [fully] filmed, but they were written. And when we did our readthrough, we read the alternate version ending, not the ending you see.

But was the ending in the final cut what you always envisioned?

ROBERTS Yes, I worked backwards from this ending. I always wanted it to incorporate the ghost. Sam and I had this conversation when we met on the first day [of filming season eight], when we all got back together for prep. I told him, “Hey, we’re going to close the loop on the ghost.” He was like, “Oh, good. I’m so excited. I think the fans really want it.” I said, “I haven’t written it yet, but you’ll see it when we get there.”

Matter of fact: That was Sam’s and my last day filming. So we wrapped out the bigger crew and cast and we had a final day of shooting, but then we needed to pick this up. So Sam and I went up to Craigh na Dun with a crew, and we filmed that last bit.

HEUGHAN That was the last thing I shot on the show. We went up to the stones — or, I suppose, our fake stones. We went up to Schiehallion, Kinloch Rannoch, which is one of our most magical places we’ve shot. It always delivered, and that day was stunning. To play young Jamie again was fantastic. It was something that I really, really wanted to see the end of, to understand [how it connects].

Sam, what is your interpretation of those two scenes of Jamie alone — first looking up at Claire through the window, and then at the stones — after he has died? The scene through the window is from the very first episode, but since we only originally saw Jamie’s back, did you have to go back to shoot additional coverage?

HEUGHAN I think we’re getting to see a scene or a moment that happens as Jamie has returned to Scotland, so it’s just before our story starts in season one. There’s something in [that scene that suggests] he doesn’t have magic powers or anything like that, but he’s a superstitious man and this is a very special place for him, and he’s perhaps calling for something or someone — and the stones, or fate, deliver. I think the forget me nots [which grow after Jamie touches the stones] are quite significant.

But, yeah, we shot [my coverage] 12 years later. I got back in the old costume, and we didn’t have Tobias [Menzies] in the studio where we shot the closeups. We had to have a double for his body. But it was cool to recreate that moment and to see Jamie, perhaps his ghost, taking a moment to check in on Claire.

Let’s backtrack a little bit to earlier in the episode before we discuss the final shot of the series. Claire and Jamie share a really lovely embrace on the mountain after his army has won, but it was almost a red herring because, just as Claire leaves her husband to tend to wounded soldiers, Jamie gets shot by Ferguson. Claire rushes back to hold Jamie, but he dies quickly in her arms.

ROBERTS That’s the guy who shoots him in the book, so what happens to him happens in the book. It’s just the aftermath of that [shooting] that is adjusted. I wanted everybody to be devastated. I wanted the world to be devastated. I wanted everybody to think, “Oh shit, they made it! He made it! They changed history.” But they didn’t. I wanted everybody to be crushed. I wanted the characters to feel the weight of losing Jamie Fraser.

Most importantly, if you look at how Claire’s [healing] powers evolve, she doesn’t have total control over them, and they come at the time of need, and there’s no more important time than this moment. I think that’s what you see there at the end.

Caitríona, even though you’ve played different versions of Claire believing that she had lost Jamie over the years, when you all shot Jamie’s death scene in the series finale, was there a different kind of intensity on set? How did that play out from your perspective?

BALFE Yeah. First of all, you have that moment where she feels the shot, right? That was a callback to when he was supposed to have died in season seven, and she was so adamant that she would feel it, that she would know — and she didn’t. So it was nice to play that moment where she’s like, “Oh no, this is real. This time it’s happening.” That was a really tough sequence to film. Obviously, we knew something was going to happen at the end, but there had been stuff from episode three [of this season] that played into Claire’s abilities or non-abilities, or whatever, that would have made a big difference in this [situation], and [the writers] had decided to rewrite those scenes. So I didn’t have the information about how that was exactly going to go.

My thing was always, “Well, is [healing people] something she’s capable of? Does she have powers? Does she have an inkling she has powers? Surely, if it’s happened with [Claire healing] a baby before, then she’s going to try and recreate this moment here. She would do anything to bring him back.” Matt was very adamant that she doesn’t have any ability to summon it, that it’s not something that she is aware of or can do. It’s just something that happens. So I had to play with the fact that she believes that [Jamie is dead], and that this is absolutely the truth of what’s happening for her in these moments.

How did you think about playing Claire’s grief in the immediate aftermath of Jamie’s death?

BALFE There’s nothing left in this world for her. Jamie is her world. So the way I played it was that she was numb — and we filmed a lot of stuff as well. Those sequences were very long, and they’ve used parts of it, but there’s the kind of numbness, then there’s the rage, and then she gives up. And, for me at least, when she lies down beside him, she’s dying next to him.

Let’s talk about that ending. What exactly is that final moment meant to represent? Does Jamie survive? How does he survive? Does Claire somehow heal him with her powers?

ROBERTS I don’t know. You tell me! I have a ton [of theories], and here’s what I’m going to say: I’m not going to interpret the ending for anybody. They have their own experiences with the show. If you watched one season or or eight seasons, you’ve had your own feelings all along, and I’m not the one to go, “Here is how you should feel about the ending.” You should feel your own way. You could hate it, you could love it, you could feel happy, you could feel sad — you could feel all these emotions at once, and that, to me, is a good thing. And if I say it means this [particular interpretation], then all that goes away.

People are going to have so many interpretations about this ending — and a lot of fans are going to be very upset that you killed Jamie.

ROBERTS They are! That’s the beauty of it! People are going to have their own interpretations, and they’re not going to be mad at me. They should be mad at Diana. That happens in the book.

Caitríona and Sam, what was your interpretation of that ending? Please tell me you have some kind of theory!

BALFE I mean, I would love to know! I’m just a passenger in this, too. And if our showrunner doesn’t know… (Laughs.) I think it is up for everybody to make their own decision. Again, we’d planned earlier on that there was going to be more to do with Claire’s powers, and then that stuff was taken out. So I think you can only go with what was there.

HEUGHAN Initially, they wanted to make it quite clear that she used her power to bring him back to life. But, actually, it’s more ambiguous the way it’s been presented to us, and we don’t really know whether they’re alive or perhaps somewhere else. We’re lying on the main standing stone that’s been through with us, that’s transported Claire through time. It is cracked down the middle; it’s broken. So yeah, that journey is probably over. So maybe they’re together alive on Fraser’s Ridge, or maybe they’re together somewhere else eternally.

BALFE They’re either alive together in this world, or they’re together in another world. But, ultimately, what is most important is that they’re together, wherever they are.

HEUGHAN Exactly. I think that was really important. I think that’s why season eight is quite magical. Even the [number] eight, which is the infinity sign. I think they’re together forever.

Caitríona and Sam, you both told me you did not know how the show would end, but Matt has now revealed to me that he gave you a heads up about the ending, so I’m assuming you were not completely in the dark then. Is that correct?

BALFE There were a lot of discussions throughout the season. It was a tough season in that way, because normally we would have an outline. Normally, we would have a much clearer sense of where our character’s journeys would be, and this [season] you’re finding out just as you’re getting scripts. I think you can fight for something, and if it doesn’t feel right for the showrunner, then you have to respect that. That’s their job, and [an actor’s] job is to help facilitate their vision. So, at that point, I was like, “Okay, I’m just going to be on the journey and allow it to come to me as it comes.” You have to try and give your best and put your heart and soul into the moments that you’re given, and we did that as much as we could.

HEUGHAN We didn’t know about the breath. I chatted to Matt a few times about young Jamie and Jamie’s ghost, and he assured me that that was going to play out, but he didn’t tell us until quite late on — until maybe a week or two before we shot it — about the final breath moment. I think that moment is wonderful. I kind of like the ambiguity of it.

ROBERTS I think what they’re saying is they didn’t know, meaning they never saw [the ending in the final cut]. We never showed it to them. They really didn’t know exactly how it ends. We could have cut that [final scene] off [at any point]. So they’re telling the truth. But nobody saw it. We didn’t show it to any of the actors. Only a few people at Starz saw it. Only a few people at Sony saw it. Only people necessary to make the show saw how it ended. We delivered this episode over a year ago, and then we locked the door. And then recently, more and more people like yourself have seen it.

So, Matt, when you said you filmed alternate endings, you just meant that you only really filmed one ending, but you had different ways that you could have chosen to cut it together. You could have ended the show right when Jamie died, or right after he takes that breath, or somewhere in between.

ROBERTS All those things were up in the air. I was very definitive, certainly, with Emer Conroy, who directed it, that I needed this. Because four years ago, when I was thinking about the ending — or even longer than that, because it’s been two years since we shot it — I knew that’s where I wanted to go, and I wanted people to feel exactly how you feel right now. I want them to feel like, “What does this all mean?!” (Laughs.) But then I want them to answer the question.

So you knew the finale was going to end with someone taking a breath, and then the screen immediately cutting to black?

ROBERTS Yeah. Watch and listen at the same time. There’s a reason why [the camera] takes so long to get there, because you come out of the montage, you come out of their life, [there’s] the build of the music, and then we go into complete dead silence. The only thing you hear is the wind. That’s very important. There’s no music. It’s only the wind, because I want you to pay attention [to that final moment].

You mentioned the montage of Claire and Jamie’s greatest hits, which plays in the wake of Jamie’s death. How did you settle on which moments you wanted to include in that montage? Did you labor over that sequence at all?

ROBERTS No, the same post [production] team has been there from day one. So the editor [Michael O’Halloran] and I, and Elicia Bessette, who is the post producer — we just went over it and went over it, and we dug through, and these are the [moments] that were really important. Everything you saw, we could omit those and put different ones in, and it would still work. That’s how many amazing moments were on the show. But, in a weird way, it wasn’t as difficult as you think because when you see it, you go, “Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah,” you know what I mean? The [quintessential] moments are all there, and that feeling of “That’s their life.” I love the way the music builds, and it was really beautifully edited.

Caitríona and Sam, the last scene you filmed together was actually a seven-page dialogue bedroom scene at the start of the finale, in which Claire and Jamie reflect on their relationship before they depart Fraser’s Ridge. Matt, what was your experience of watching Caitríona and Sam shoot that from behind the monitor?

ROBERTS Yeah, we very deliberately scheduled that scene to be the end. We always schedule Jamie and Claire on the last day. I think we were talking [on Wednesday] night, and Caitríona and Sam said it well. We were at the Paley [Center], and we were having a conversation about it. If you listen to the scene, it has a lot of meaning not only for the characters, but for those of us that have been on the show and that have watched the show. It has these layers of, “Did we do it right, and would you change anything?” There’s this whole deeper meaning [to the dialogue].

But in watching that, we were talking about how when we rehearsed it, there were just a few people there. So it was just Caitríona, Sam, our script supervisor Margaret [Graham], and [executive producers] Maril [Davis], Toni Graphi and I, and that was it. We did the rehearsal, and the scene took the whole day because you had to do the [camera] coverage. It’s seven pages, so it takes a long time. We had nothing else scheduled for the day on purpose.

But over the course of the day, more and more people came down because they knew [the ending] was getting closer and closer. So we started off with the pure requisite amount of people necessary for filming. And then, at the end of the day, there were hundreds of people down there when we wrapped out. It was super emotional. Caitríona and Sam did a great job in just holding it together because they knew the weight of this moment, too.

Caitríona and Sam, what was the most difficult part of that scene for you to get through without breaking into tears?

BALFE It’s so weird watching it — and again, I’ve only seen it once. I was on the verge of tears for so long and it was really, really tough to get through it, but [that scene] speaks to their life. It speaks to this journey they’ve been on together. What was so difficult about filming it was that every time we would say those words — and this always happens as an actor. You say the scene one time, and then you say it probably 15, 20 times. And each time you say it, you understand the words a bit better; you gain different meanings from what you’re saying. But this seemed to have a real resonance to our journey, our friendship, and our partnership as coworkers.

HEUGHAN It was one of those scenes that’s quintessential Outlander — seeing Jamie and Claire in a domestic situation, which on the surface feels like just another day. But, actually, the underlying drama and tension is that they’re facing their last moments together. We, as actors, were also having our last moments together. I think we both dealt with it in different ways. Caitríona was extremely teary-eyed, and I shut down, actually. (Laughs.) I was almost trying not to come to terms with it or to believe it was true, but it was very special to share it with her. She’s an incredible co-star and friend.

Matt, since you refuse to tell me how to interpret Claire and Jamie’s ending, I’m hoping you can tell me about the decision to include that post-credits scene with Diana signing her own books in a bookstore — with what appears to be Claire’s journal on the table beside her.

ROBERTS I can tell you about the ending, but I could only tell you my interpretation, which I’m not going to do because it’s personal and I want you to have yours. (Laughs.)

So the bookstore scene — there’s two reasons we did it. One is, we wanted to say thank you to all the people in the bookstore who had worked on the show from day one. All the books in the bookstore are personalized to each one of them for whatever job they did, and it was written by them and we gave the covers to them. So it was a thank you: “You guys built this. You guys dedicated 12 years of your lives to this show. You passionately showed up every day. Thank you very much. You deserve to be in it as well as just a name on the back of the credits.” And [we did it] for Diana. She created this universe. This was ultimately to say, “Thank you for letting us borrow your works for over a decade.” We felt like the last image of Outlander should be hers.

Caitríona and Sam, you have both already signed on to other projects in the year and a half since you wrapped Outlander, but these are characters who will follow you for the rest of your lives. How open is the door for you to reprise these roles at some point down the road? Or do you think you have firmly closed the door on this significant chapter of your career?

BALFE Look, this show has given me everything, and I love the people who I’ve worked with so dearly. Our friendships are almost stronger post-show than in it, because you actually have to make an effort now; you’re not just showing up every day and seeing them. I think where Jamie and Claire are at, I don’t know what their next journey would be. We don’t know where they are! So I always say, “You never say never,” but it would be nice to have some distance and enjoy a much easier schedule for a little bit, because the schedule’s very tough. (Laughs.)

HEUGHAN Oh, I think you never say never. That’s what I’ve learned from Jamie. You never know what’s going to happen. And in this show, people can come back to life or they can travel through time. Perhaps in 20 years, we’ll come back and play older Jamie. (Laughs.) I’ll be closer to his age by then, but I don’t know. It’s been such an amazing journey, and to even leave the job and to say goodbye has taken a number of years. It’s been a huge part of our lives and the viewers’ lives as well, so it’ll always be there for us. So who knows?

I thought maybe the M&S fan had a filter on, but the culture weekend photos also look the same.

And

IGS samheughan

IGS samheughan