Vetil

the big one is racing as a sport itself, but specifically it’s evolution and increasing professionalization and how it affects riders. in short, it is about how riders being pushed to focus solely on racing since they were young kids comes at the expense of their personal development and often prevents them from being able to actually enjoy what they do for a living. valentino and sete imo best exemplify the struggle against that. both of their personal philosophies when it comes to racing are built around deriving enjoyment and fun from it, in a setting that increasingly made it more difficult (although one could say that competitive racing never concerned itself with such things in the first place).

[here I must note that bayliss/edwards/hayden mentioned here all joined the paddock in 2003 and came from superbikes. which leaves vale and sete as a sorts outliers of motogp paddock ig in this regard?]

valentino, in many ways the first real teenage superstar of motogp, has always felt this pressure to become ‘more serious’ and to ‘grow up’ very keenly. I often think about this quote, and it coming from biaggi……

sete, as a rich nepo baby, has been super fortunate to have space to focus on racing and not have any pressure, that competitive athletes often struggle with, imposed on him by his family (something that he is self aware about). in fact, they were against him being a racer and wanted him to continue studying at uni (from which he eventually dropped out of to pursue racing). and while he started riding very young, he did not start seriously competing until he was 18yo or so.

and this is something I’ve been thinking a lot about: sete’s particular career is kinda impossible to have in the current realities of the sport. even with all the money in the world you have to start not just riding but competing very early on and dedicate all your energy to it even as a kid. like, just look at current f1 guys who come from rich families, how many of them have actually even finished high school?

so, if sete was coming up sometime in the last decade instead of the 90’s he would have been forced to do competitive racing much much earlier. which of course means that……his entire personality would have developed differently. because sete that we know is a product of pretty damn specific circumstances that, as i’ve said, no longer remain a possibility!

one of the key things about his character is that he could have gone with a much safer option but he chose racing because he loved it, despite there being no guarantee that he would be successful. in fact:

“he learned to suffer” I think perfectly describes sete’s career path and the sacrifices he had to make, I emphasize, as a conscious choice motivated largely by his love for racing.

for this reason I really dislike this narrative (peddled by 00’s media too, mind you) that presents sete as someone that had nothing going on gor him, until suddenly a tragic accident completely transformed him into someone who could ride a bike. which is just so lazy, like you’d think they’d at least remember sete doing well on the bike he inherited from doohan but no……

fact is once he chose racing he had to embrace uncertainty: prior to 1998 his career could have ended prematurely so many times, but almost always he ended up being bailed out by someone else at the very last minute. and then things would suddenly go south again and he would find himself making it all up on the fly once more.

he puts it best, this is from his 2001 interview:

something would always be happening to him! by the time 2003 rolls along, he spends over 10 very eventful years racing in various competitions. he is a guy that has really been around, someone who has lived that life and wasn’t sheltered from it, you know. and of course the question of whether he was lucky or unlucky has always followed him thru out his career! until he became vale’s rival and got CURSED.

seriously, tho, the way I see it: his rivalry with vale only enhanced what was already there, it really brought out that spark in him. put him under the spotlight, raised the stakes and added much more drama. but he already had what it takes to be valentino’s rival! he just did not have an opportunity to shine……:(

so, you have valentino and sete who both love racing but their actual career trajectories are pretty different in terms of success and public/media attention. vale is kinda akin to child actor when it comes to this, imo, as in he grew up (at least since his teens) with the awareness that there was public interest in him. which leads us to separation of his private and racing personas (the three valentinos), his ironic distancing (not synonymous with inauthenticity) and, most importantly, his commitment to keeping certain things to himself.

meanwhile, sete was the total opposite of this, and for majority of his career he was in someone else’s shadow, often as a last minute substitute for someone else. which he learned to deal with and make the best of. this is purely my take but I think that when he was younger he used to be more prone to confidence spirals and genuine bouts of despair and so on. and we certainly see some of that in 30yo sete also, but with career like his? he just had to learn to manage his emotions and actively maintain his sense of ilusion and the ability to have fun. which I think a lot of people miss or maybe don’t consider. his positive attitude is not a result of naivety or like lack of understanding of the dynamics of competition or something, no, quite the opposite. but he is still a sensitive and emotional guy and crucially he doesn’t repress that and is not really ashamed of it.

sete, as far as your average rider goes, in comparison comes off as much more empathetic and personable, and therefore perceptive too. none of these are magically innate qualities I might add, but something clearly informed by his upbringing and his later career. like riding motorcycles for him was first and foremost a family bonding activity. it’s not something that isolated him from his peers, which is often the case with many pro athletes. and then much of his career relied on him being the guy who could join an already established team, often as a substitute, and make it work with people there.

but also, the whole story with being dani’s mentor and traveling w him as basically his emotional support for 1,5 years. crivillé talking about how riding w sete and kr at the ranch was like ‘riding with friends’; sete’s cousin describing him as not ‘just someone to ride bikes with’. all this makes sete come off as really empathetic person who is good at providing emotional comfort to people around him, pretty unusual for an athlete. in fact I would say that he could deliver his best and step up in situations where his team needed him and relied on him, not only in 2003 but also in 1998. where both times, but esp w gresini, he ended up genuinely bonding with his team. personal relationships seem crucial to him, so racing could never be something truly solitary, to sete’s detriment, as 2004/05 seasons would prove……

THE FRIENDSHIP

which brings us to another big thing, deserving much more spotlight, when it comes to their relationship – their friendship. the way it’s approached in both media and rpf…….kinda renders it meaningless? it’s just a neat little fact that gets thrown around and that’s it. but what does it mean exactly? as in: why were they friends and why did they get along? how did they pass their time together and what did they talk about? and the big one – what did their friendship mean for both of them?

if you actually look at it you would see that both valentino and sete take their friendships quite seriously. ‘friend’ is not a word they tend to throw around. they never considered to be each other’s closest friends or anything but they were ‘good friends’. and for this reason, the way people portray their relationship in most rpf…..uhhh kinda baffles me, let’s put it that way. because they had a relationship of equals, sete did not see valentino as some ethereal being who was completely out of his reach or this brilliant genius who was always inscrutable and distant. valentino to him was just a….guy, crazy talented and super charismatic, certainly, but a guy nonetheless. in fact, it’s pretty important that in 2004 sete is hampered by knowing vale as a person which makes him unable how ruthless valentino can really be until it’s too late.

like why does sete never have any power or authority at all in their relationship? it makes no senseeeee. him being jealous of vale or being insecure about the difference in their careers doesn’t make sense either - literally just look at sete’s relationship w àlex Crivillé and you will understand how sete could be happy for vale in 2003 and also want to beat him. like circa 2003 sete was actually the one who got a better handle of balancing their rivalry/friendship! bc vale was not the only world champ sete was friends with……

anyhow. sete was not friends with 9 time world champion valentino rossi, he was friends with valentino. a 20something, probably very annoying and equally just as charming valentino. like I just cannot see sete being starstruck by him agfghjkk. which is good, because then they can be actual friends and have genuine intimacy.

and this is crucial for conceptualization of their romantic and sexual relationship in rpf context. sete was not a just guy for vale to hook up with, nor was he his boyfriend lol. he was valentino’s friend. but he rarely if ever feels as (having been) such in rpf? is it, partially, bc of the way ppl try to neatly separate being friends w someone from having romantic feelings for them/wanting to fuck them? when the reality is much more complex? idk.

this is a very long winded way of saying that ‘friend’ is how both of them would see each other, even if they were fucking on the reg shfghjk. and I don’t think that it would be a cope out or # repression moment, at least not primarily so, on their parts. longest lasting relationships in their lives have been friendships, and it’s not a stretch to say that for them it is the primary relationship mode.

which is to say: you don’t need to force them into being a ‘normal couple’ or try to fit their relationship into the traditional categories. and like come on if anyone has experience with homoerotic friendships and loving your friends it’s valentino, cause I mean him and uccio, hello?

so, speaking of this: w uccio vale has a relationship that started in kindergarten, they have been practically inseparable since and they essentially share the way of living. they have always known each other and have been therd for each other. vale’s other friends from tavullia are also the ones he knew since he was a teen. and obviously, tavullia is a pretty small place where everyone knows each other. —> sete as someone whom valentino gets to known and befriends on the cusp of becoming an adult; someone who is older and who has his own life outside of valentino, and has his own life experiences, that in some ways are pretty different from vale’s!

idk but the way I conceptualized romantic tension and longing in their relationship, prior to falling out I should add, was thus: they live different lives and while these lives greatly overlap they are still separate. so sete is not someone who’s presence in his life valentino can take for granted. which means that there is always a degree of risk involved in vale opening up and being vulnerable with him. and a possibility of losing him (which valentino will). and the reality of this only gets brought up to the forefront in 2003/04 because until then vale did not see sete as a potential rival and so their relationship in his mind had no reason to ever change.

so, sete kinda straddles the line between being the other and being something familiar. it is best exemplified by him being a fluent italian speaker - not only does he speak vale’s language with ease (and enjoys it btw), speaks it with an accent close to vale’s! but he has never actually lived in italy…..plus I think the contrast between how kinda stereotypically masculine he looks but how he is also this open and affectionate guy who likes to have fun and is kinda goofy. that’s surprising!

……and this is one of the reasons valentino would be drawn to him. the other huge one is sete’s emotional openness and his ability to process intense feelings and be ‘in the moment,’ instead of trying to distance himself. more on this later tho.

so, I’ve always been the proponent of their friendship being equally as interesting as their fallout is. in fact, my more controversial opinion is that if you can’t write a compelling (romantic) friendship dynamic between them then you won’t be able to make their fallout drama compelling either.

🤓☝️

because the foundation of their antipathy lies in their friendship! (this is what valentino himself has always said!) I think ideally even if a fic is about their pre-fallout era it still should “explain” why their fallout was so bad. cause if they have no interpersonal chemistry as friends and do not even seem to like each other then the the narrative makes no logical sense and falls apart.

if valentino’s never been vulnerable w sete and didn’t open up to him in some way, then why does he talk about being betrayed? why does it matter to him? if sete has no reason to think vale is ‘a good guy’, then he can’t be caught so off guard by vale’s refusal to backtrack during sepang 2004 presser, or be so deeply hurt by jerez 2005. you should be able to retrace their relationship from their fallout to thdm first becoming friends and it should all present a coherent and compelling narrative!

like what happens at sepang and beyond is that they both feel tricked by the other because the trust had ended up being unfounded! and it’s awful because they alsoknow that the thing between them meant something, so much so that they can’t really lie to themselves about it (too much)…….and they cannot take it back!!!!! and this is the most bitter feeling in the world!

^they should both be HAUNTED by their relationship!! sick to their stomach and unable to even look each other in the eye:)

and so… THESE GUYS WOULD NOT BE HAVING HATE SEX IN 2005!! THE WOULD NEVER FUCK IN 2005 AT ALL! because it was all way too close and they both felt like they’ve been burned pretty badly. they couldn’t even look each other in the eye, or exchange basic pleasantries dhgghhjkk. what they wanted was to be a million miles away from each other just as they were forced to sit centimeters apart! valentino was winning at this whole ‘being a champion’ thing that year and still sete was still on his mind. like ‘sete no siete’ thing after winning HIS SEVENTH WORLD TITLE??? girl??? his frequent digs at sete through out the season too, like I always felt that some part of vale just couldn’t help it? he wanted to be more indifferent, wanted for it not to matter (hence sete’s erasure in his 2005 autobiography) but he couldn’t:)

so, really, what they had going on in 2005 is so much more upsetting and so much hotter than if they were to fuck. like describing it as ‘toxic yaoi’ really feels like a flattening of their dynamic!

speaking of, sorry but cliched toxic yaoi is just as bad and boring to read as is tooth rotting conflict-less fluff. especially if characters have no chemistry. which is what lowkey kills me about the way this pairing is depicted because setevale have sooo much chemistry hello???? theyre literally the type of dynamic you look at and go ‘their rpf sex must be so crazy insane’ sfdfghjkk. but I never see it in rpf, where’s sete flirting with vale and teasing him like he did here, but cranked up a notch? where are moments of them laughing together and being on the same wavelength, making everyone feel like the thirdwheel? where is sete who can just confidently touch valentino or give him an affectionate kiss because they have built casual intimacy over the years and so he is sure his touch is welcome???? this relationship is literally built on there being a stark contrast between before and after the fallout! what’s the point of having them ‘not vibe’ with each other if it only flattens their dynamic and makes it boring?

TRUST

so, clearly trust is what it’s all abouttttt. that’s what is ultimately broken! it’s a crucial component in formation of a genuine friendship or an intimate relationship but also trust is essential in racing too. like, sete&vale could never become friends and have any sort of sexual relationship if they didn’t feel that they could trust each other. yet, very often valentino specifically is written in such way that sete would never be able to trust that guy. baffling characterisation because valentino does actually know how to be a good friend and make people feel valued lol, it’s part of his persona even! like it’s one thing to have a character be an asshole or lash out at someone sometimes, and then maybe not be able to handle it in the best way and so on. but it’s another to have a character be a manipulative sociopath who constantly plays mind games for no reason dgfghjjk. sete might be sensitive but he also has pretty firm boundaries when it comes to relationships so again he would never consider that version of vale his friend!

which of course again destroys the logic of the narrative because sete trusting vale as a person means sete trusting vale as a rider. which is crucial in racing - knowing at least to some degree that your opponent sees you as a person, a fellow rider. and that they are certain lines that the would never cross on purpose. which is perfectly illustrated by the contrast assen 2004 and jerez 2005 ofc:) at jerez sete truly understands how little regard valentino has for him as a person and as a rider, to him that line has been crossed. and so he loses his sense of ilusion…..

NARRATIVE FOILS

sete & vale had wildly different career paths but finally in 2004 they are the dual protagonists of the season! fittingly they wear similar colors. like it’s such a perfect visual shorthand to signify that they are in many ways so alike.…….

i think one of the reason why sete gets under vale's skin Like That is because he is the rival that most effectively, inadvertently even, by virtue of being himself + the way he is perceived, ends up mirroring vale's fears and anxieties about himself. like sete is seen as 'overemotional', 'not tough enough', 'diva', 'fake' - and all of these translate into him being deemed 'a mediocre rider'. sete is simultaneously seen as performative but also as 'bad actor', his nickname is literally 'hollywood' after all. for the most of his career sete has to accept the role of being someone's substitute or being in someone else's shadow - he is ordinary. and like all of these pretty pointedly the things that vale always wanted to avoid being perceived as! what he wants to distance himself from! which he accomplishes by mocking sete and making him out into a joke. like that little moment of vale looking straight at the camera while walking up those stairs in jerez’05……see it could never be him!

i think in particular it's sete's emotionalism and the way it gets connected to him not being good enough that would get to vale the hardest, on a subconscious level. like i’ve already said, i see sete's emotional openness as something that draws valentino in - he wants that emotional intensity and intimacy. but in context of competition.......valentino most of thew time wants to maintain a degree of emotional distance between himself and everything that goes on when he is in public. hence the three valentinos thing - public, and actually the majority of ppl but a few, do not really know him because he holds the part of who he really is back. <- this the narrative he has constructed about himself. then there are vale the rider and vale the performer. and i think it's the rider who get's to experience the most intense emotions with the least distancing. like him saying how as a rider he has a 'monstrous memory' but how in real life he is pretty chill and doesn't hold grudges. but it is all valentino! he is emotional, he does get attached and does take certain things too close and too personal. he is intense but he distances himself from it in his day to day life.

what happens at the end of 2004 championship tho is that their fallout suddenly collapses these three personas into one - there is little to no separation between vale the person and vale the rider because they all want the same thing and are 100% invested into it. and what they want is revenge over sete. this is why it ends up playing out exactly the way vale wants to btw - because he is not trying to ironically distance himself or make it seem like's it's not serious to him. this is his major Romantic character moment.

basically, I think sete as a character is good at eliciting a wide range of intense emotions in valentino: after the sachsenring’03 defeat vale is visibly upset and everyone notices it (but especially sete); vale beats sete at brno and gets to re expience childlike joy and whimsy; qatar makes vale angry like never before etc. so if you really want to peel back valentino’s layers and understand him sete is your guy. and setevale is a pairing which allows to examine vale up-close and at his most emotional.

sete’s function as a character distilled into one headline:

[which yes I’m gonna keep posting because I love it so much]

IBIZA

as much as it gets attention from ppl around here it hasn’t been meaningfully explored either? Ibiza is not just a convenient location full of nightclubs where ppl take drugs and where yaoi happens. to valentino it is straight up the other most important place alongside tavullia! in the early 00’s he conceptualized ibiza ‘as a place where one could be isolated physically and mentally from the world of motogp’! I should also add that ibiza at that time was a place away from tavullia where everyone has known him since he was a kid, including his family, too. and his spend this time away from italy and the paddock with sete…..where they ‘did not talk about motorcycles’……….come on now.

like I think, when framed like this Ibiza becomes the place where valentino can truly & meaningfully Let Go and maybe explore a different side of himself! so, to me it always made sense that this is where he and sete would hook up for the first time. in a place where it can be between them alone. and where they could have as much freaky sex as the writer wants then to. like if there ever was a place for sexual experimentation w someone they trust this is literally it!!!!!

which brings us to…..HE WAS AT SETES FREAKING HOUSE AT LEAST TWICE HELLO?!?!??!?

he was invited to sete’s literal domestic space. did he take uccio with him lol? either way, this is insanely intimate setting which once against allows to play against established sports rpf/ valentino characterization cliches. I mean like…….if they are hooking up then there is no way vale slept in a separate room or something agdggghjkk. # bed sharing that is no big deal at all because it happened many times:) so, again lots of space for building up casually intimate relationship and kinda playing at domesticity a bit while also being on a pretty limited time frame. so yk ‘even in the summer, even in the spring you can never get too much of a wonderful thing’~☺️

obviously, since they used to go on joint holidays for years, ibiza could be a great location to track the progress of their relationship, idk ‘4 times setevale went to ibiza together + 1 time they didn’t’ style. or, post break up we know that both of them continued to vacation on Ibiza lol and like…..that island IS small. their paths do not cross but there are not that many places they can go that are totally free of associations with each other. and ofc! it is on ibiza where they are tricked into speaking to each other for the first time in years!

oh wait. almost forgot the other symbolism you can attach to this location:) most ppl go to ibiza in search of fun and they never stay there for long, it is a place made for flitting connections not something lasting…..BUT:) valentino has a house on the island. and even thought ibiza itself has changed too and lost a lot of it’s magic, which lowkey broke his heart, he still goes back to spend holidays there every year. as does sete, or at least he used to. permanent connection to what for most people is impermanent space, somewhere they both go back to……

THE CURSE and other supernatural stuff

this is the most unique and the wackiest feature of this rivalry and yet……..absolutely nothing been done with it ???? like there are now curse-related fics featuring other pairings but not the rivalry it’s central to….. and just so we’re clear: ‘the curse’ is something that belongs to sete alone, not the least because the way it was (and still is!) mainly invoked by people or by media was meant to be mocking and belittling sete. and, more importantly sete is not just cursed, he is cursed by valentino, this is something that is, again, between the two of them<3

anyhow, the most obvious concept here is ‘the curse as a real force influencing the narrative’.

what powers the curse? well, rick broadbent pretty much already found the answer to that:) like the curse IS about the intensity of valentino’s feelings! much less a product of vale casting a real spell or deliberately doing some ritual, and more a spontaneous expression of valentino’s intense feelings that largely exists outside of vale’s direct control once spoken into reality. like him claiming that he only meant it ‘until the end of 2004’ or something, but that’s not what was in his heart:) this is why he cannot curse anyone else, lol. and as such the curse cannot be lifted or called off, that is not something valentino can take back! once spoken into existence the curse never really goes away…….yeah, that means that sete is still cursed:) like I’ve said there is direct correlation between the curse and vale’s feelings for sete - neither are ever really gone. and I mean, the act of cursing itself basically binds them together, or binds sete to valentino…and within this framework it’s interesting how the curse only has the power on track, or more broadly as long as sete is a part of the paddock - sete is not cursed in his life outside of racing! let’s ponder what it means…….i also have a whole concept for how the curse is connected to vale’s bad luck in 2006 which I can expand more on but I’ll stop here for now.

you can also tie the curse to fairytale or mythological motifs also, as those crop up together fairly often. valentino often gets dubbed as some sort of supernatural being, while sete is of course a mortal man……like, straight up, it follows a pretty classic formula: mortal man falls for a supernatural being, eventually ends up wronging them somehow, and then the being wrecks their revenge on that man. lots of ways you can play around with this.

THE REUNION

so, post being tricked into talking to each other on the phone in summer 2008 it is pretty clear that these two have continued to keep in touch in some shape, even if they clearly never became friends again. so, they have been unable to cut each other out off their lives, they are both clearly not over what happened but both do not really want to talk about it if they can help it, esp not with each other. ample ground for character introspection here.

obviously, I’m not interested in vale being cast as evil one here and him being forced to apologize or anything. bc a) I don’t think he is sorry for what happened, nor can he really be esp not from sporting perspective. b) I do not think what sete wants from him is an apology, bc he also knows that vale is not really sorry. this creates a pretty complicated dynamic between them. like you have two characters who used to be friends (and then some) and had a comparatively uncomplicated relationship, then they became rivals and had such an intense rivalry and the fallout from it that they are still not over it +10 years later. they also harbor some repressed feelings for each other still. but they both have changed and that relationship they used to have they cannot have it now, not in the same way. but what can they have? is it possible for them to try again……etc etc. because neither of them are bitter towards each other anymore, I don’t think. they do not actually need to 'get together' for good or resolve their issues, or apologize but it can end on a vague but hopeful note. uncertainty really amplifies romanticism imo.

+

Some specific scenarios, mostly of missing scene variety that I’m always contemplating:

- literally their plausible “first” meeting at kr ranch in 1999 where vale spent a whole week training!

- 2000 pre season testing together....

- literally anything from 2000 or 2001 because we know they hanged out. also specifically hmm valencia 2001 - sete’s FIRST EVER WIN in his entire motogp career, the race where vale flopped.

- literally anything seriously examining 2003/2004 seasons and them balancing being friends and rivals and more and how they drift apart. and how it all reflects in their battles against each otheeerr

- but more specifically ik obsessed with sachsenring-ibiza-brno 2003 stretch bc emotionally speaking this is one of vale’s worst losses and he is visibly shaken by it and everyone, but especially sete can see it. but they still go on holidays TOGETHER, and that's there vale finally decides to switch to yamaha and then brno. where his win over sete basically makes him feel young again and helps him to regain his whimsy. quote literally one of the most interesting periods of vale’s entire career and it all happens within a span of less than a month!!!!

- assen 2004. I think this might be their best go at not hate sex no, but at angry/annoyed sex at least if it can happen plausibly. this was very awkward situation gor vale w having to explain himself. which he never the less did because him and sete still had a relationship that mattered to him.

- that phone call in 2008, it happened during the summer break right after laguna 2008 btw.

- literally anything from 2009 and THE BIG FEELING. how vale said at the start of 2007 that he won’t miss him but now that sete’s here…….and obviously how that doesn’t really last and sete is gone from the paddock again but……

- catalunya 2015. why did vale want to see him when he never acknowledged sete in public like that despite sete being at other gps. did they end up reminiscing about their past battles together….whatever that means?

- the sky diving thing in like 2002…….why did vale agree to do it? (he is afraid of flying lol)