Tubbo & Tommy Apologist

doomsday wasn’t a mutual betrayal between technoblade and tommy, technoblade’s feelings were hurt and he has the right to feel that way but he was the one that had been overstepping tommy’s boundaries from the beginning and got hurt when tommy tried to pull himself back.

tommy only agreed to an alliance on the condition that they’d be causing “minor” terrorism in l’manberg, that l’manberg Wouldn’t get destroyed and that tubbo wouldn’t be hurt, which tommy reinforced multiple times. technoblade intentionally let him believe in that lie when he had no intention of upholding those terms because he Specifically wanted to change tommy’s morals to the point that he’d eventually agree with it. techno may have done this because he genuinely thought that it’d be a good thing for tommy, but it wasn’t his right or his Place to decide that he could do that, especially as time went on and he realized how unstable tommy currently was (“Oh my god, you just have no freewill whatsoever.” - technoblade to tommy during dream’s first surprise visit to techno’s house).

technoblade revealed that he’d been lying to tommy about this this entire time, which tommy would’ve had the right to get angry with him about. again, I cannot stress enough that this is technoblade revealing that he’d lied to tommy and had been using tommy to help him get ready to destroy his home, whether technoblade actually needed tommy’s help or not is irrelevant because this makes tommy complicit and changes the entire circumstances around their partnership. This was an actual act of betrayal, the betrayal of tommy’s trust.

it didn’t go that way however, because techno Did successfully manipulate tommy here (and it is manipulation, whether we want to think of it that way or not). techno presented l’manberg in a purely negative light (insisting that tubbo specifically was a bad person who’d never been tommy’s friend), he encouraged tommy’s more violent coping mechanisms, and then when he thought tommy was far enough along he revealed what he’d wanted to do while insisting that he Trusted tommy now and holding the idea of genuine friendship over his head. (”You could actually be useful. You could actually be, dare I say it, a friend.” “That’s all I ever wanted.”)

none of this means that techno didn’t genuinely like tommy or that he wasn’t genuinely trying to look out for him, but tommy was blatantly coerced into joining techno’s cause here when it’d been explicitly against his boundaries. tommy Never wanted to destroy l’manberg, he wanted a relationship that he felt safe and wanted in, he wanted to be happy. techno presented himself as someone who cared about tommy, and then he presented tommy helping him destroy l’manberg as the key to his friendship when he was literally the only person that tommy had (and had made sure to emphasize that). of course tommy agreed.

tommy had tried to convince himself that he was okay with techno’s plans, but as soon as he’d genuinely hurt tubbo that illusion was shattered. he realized then and there that on a moral And emotional level he could not stand to see tubbo hurt without seeing himself as a monster. tommy’s reaction here was inward when it so easily could’ve been outward, could’ve been outward anger at the man who railroaded him into this situation despite his wishes, and it just wasn’t.

at this moment tommy Still trusted techno, he was honest with techno immediately and was Clearly having a breakdown. techno’s reaction was immediately the offensive (asking tommy if he “really wants to do this” doesn’t count as giving tommy a fair chance, especially when techno has Seen and talked tommy down from his panic attacks before), tommy was immediately Dead to him while Tommy was still willing to make a compromise (tommy thought that techno would be receptive to a compromise because he’d been tricked into thinking he was getting one before, but he wasn’t and techno would never settle for that).

techno presented himself as someone that tommy could trust and rely on (and particularly as someone who’d be patient with him during his breakdowns, which the confrontation at the community house definitely was), that’s Why tommy was honest with him and Why he’d felt comfortable enough with him to say how he felt in plain words as best as he could (compare “I’m worse than everyone I never wanted to be” to “Wilbur wasn’t so poggers” and it’s immediately obvious what I mean). On Top Of techno (falsely) presenting tommy’s participation as a choice, he’d already made tommy participate by getting tommy to help with the preparations before telling tommy the truth about what they’d been preparing for, tommy had already been complicit before he could make an informed choice. it also goes without saying that techno immediately partnered with dream with no remorse. that’s strike two and three of betraying tommy’s trust.

tommy had been trying to reach techno all throughout doomsday, it wasn’t until it was over that tommy had been completely disillusioned with techno. his conclusion was that techno had Never been his friend because he could not imagine someone who cared about him ever reacting to that situation the way that techno did or hurting someone who He cared about in the way that techno did.

and even then, even despite all of that, tommy Still cares about him even if he Does genuinely still believe that technoblade never cared about him.

when you actually look at the situation it’s technoblade tricking a traumatized teen into helping him destroy something that techno knew was important to him while further straining tommy’s relationships with people that techno knew he still cared about (by intentionally withholding information) and then getting so explosively angry when tommy tried to pull back that he made him the main focus of doomsday despite the people who tried to literally murder him also being there.

tommy hurt techno by deciding that he couldn’t let him hurt his best friend or destroy his country without severely damaging his own mental health and self worth After he’d made it clear that this was a moral boundary for him.

@nicetwin1​ said: So, why didnt Tommy just leave when Technoblade made it clear what he was going to do. Hell, it was pretty clear that Tommy was uncomfortable with what was going on, but he still stayed?? Like, he could have been upfront with technoblade and not pretended to be cool with it. Sure he was traumatized by dream and all that, but what did he really gain from staying in the long run? He really should have left as soon as Technoblade told him his true intentions. 

Hell, technoblade even gave him an out when he told him about destroying La'manburg. And tommy was no angel on all this either. In a sense, tommy was really only staying with technoblade to use him as a sheild from dream. He broke into the guys house, stole his things, threatened him a couple of times, (but lets be honest, they were pretty empty threats), and was kind of a pest. Technoblade had absolutely no obligation to take the racoon in. (End transcription.)

this seems to be based on either a misremembering of certain scenes or just misinformation which leans into some pretty Unfortunate implications as a result.

so lets take this by bullet point:

1: technoblade was not as honest about his intentions as people remember him being. like I mentioned, technoblade initially Lied to tommy about his goals, making their alliance on the grounds that techno would be helping tommy get his discs back and tommy would be helping techno create Minor Terrorism Only. that was the only way that techno could get tommy to agree to join him. technoblade had tried to acclimate tommy to the Idea of destroying l’manberg in several ways, but he was not honest about tommy about that being his main goal. he outright erased “Destroy l’manberg” from his to-do list before he handed it to tommy, and he’d quickly change the subject whenever tommy was verbally uncomfortable with what technoblade was suggesting.

2: technoblade had to come clean about having lied to him and he chose to do so the day before the confrontation at the community house (Which is clipped here: Link). technoblade lied to tommy, spent that time trying to convince tommy of his ideals Behind his goal, and Then came clean.

Tommy had been 100% honest about not wanting to destroy l’manberg from the beginning and had never stopped, him saying that Again in plain words is literally the catalyst for techno’s confession. tommy’s crime here is being too trusting to pick up on the hints that techno was less noble in his intentions than he presented himself, but we Are meant to think that tommy was still completely under the impression that technoblade was keeping his word up until this point. technoblade didn’t give tommy the information to make an informed decision about whether he wanted to align himself with techno’s actual goals days of real world time (it’s hard to say what the in lore time was, exile was months for tommy and pogtopia was around for 2 years in lore, so who knows). framing it as if it’s somehow Tommy’s fault for being convinced by technoblade, when technoblade had literally spent days trying to convince him, is blatant misinformation, especially when tommy didn’t and couldn’t know for the Majority of their alliance. “why didn’t tommy just leave?” why didn’t technoblade tell the truth?

3: “Sure he was traumatized by dream and all that” is awfully dismissive considering the situation. it wasn’t just that dream had hurt him, it was the specific conditioning that dream had pulled. dream isolated tommy, deliberately lied (to him and to other people) to specifically make him think that no one in l’manberg had ever cared about him, that they were all happier without him. he did this specifically to make tommy dependent on him and to try to break him down. he’d made tommy Actively suicidal this way, and tommy ran into technoblade literally the day after an aborted suicide attempt. it wasn’t just that tommy had nothing, it was that tommy was made to believe that no one cared about him so he’d bend to the will of an authority figure that’d tricked him into thinking that he was his friend.

this is Highly relevant to the situation with technoblade here because technoblade inadvertently tapped directly into that. he’d been trying to convince tommy that l’manberg and specifically tubbo was bad and bad for him for a While, that tubbo specifically hadn’t cared about him, After he’d presented himself as an authority figure to tommy. and again, this features heavily in this moment.

- First techno opens with the idea that tommy was useless when he’d met techno, really going whole ham with that, but that after they’d committed all that Terrorism together he’s worth something now. he’s worth the truth. this both frames technoblade as the direct linchpin to tommy’s self worth And frames the reveal of the lie almost as a favor on technoblade’s part. he doesn’t explicitly say that tommy Wasn’t worth the truth before but the implication is, of course, there.

- then after the reveal of his plan he Explicitly uses his friends against him to sell him on his ideals. to use the full quote directly here: “But I think you’re worth being honest with tommy because L'manberg they’ve screwed you over as well Tommy. They exiled you, they abandoned you. L'manberg is the source of all of your problems, and that’s why we need to get rid of it Tommy.” (some middle bits where rambles a bit how everyone in l’manberg aren’t All inherently bad people.) “But the problem is Tommy is that government power corrupts. You see what Tubbo’s done ever since he became president? He’s cast you aside, he’s abandoned his friends just to protect his own power. And maybe he thinks he’s doing it for good Tommy, but do you think exiling you was a good idea? Do you think that was worth it?”

whether technoblade really believes this or not doesn’t matter, whether you think he’s right or not doesn’t matter, this is him actively trying to convince tommy to blow his home up, something that would (obviously) isolate him from his friends even further. 

- tommy still refuses, he tries to convince technoblade not to but techno says it’s going to happen whether tommy is involved or not but that this is his chance to join techno for real. tommy asks why techno only gained respect for him now, techno lists standing up to dream and causing terrorism but quickly diverts. he once again emphasizes that tommy was useless before but that causing terrorism with techno made him useful. which is where the line “And dare I say it, a friend.” along with tommy’s response “You know that’s all I ever wanted from you.” it is Only after technoblade mentioned being tommy’s friend in those words that tommy’s demeanor changed.

- technoblade emphasizes again how Truthful he’s being right now, how understanding he’s being right now, but that techno is going to do it himself no matter what tommy chooses. that no matter what choice tommy makes he cannot help his friends or his country, and again that it was the country that caused all of tommy’s problems.

- it’s here that tommy agrees to join technoblade, Kind of. he tries to lay out a condition starting Here: “It’s Tubbo’s home, it’s my home, it’s not finished it’s not ready to go.“ “This sounds like the opposite of destroying-” “Well you said ‘do you wanna join me,’ I’ll join you but I can’t- you-you know I need my discs.” “Well yeah we can get you your discs but that country’s blown up, that’s kind of a separate considion here.” “Well the discs first alright. Promise me that” techno refuses, tommy begs, techno refuses Harder and says that he’ll help tommy get the discs but the country is going up at the first opportunity. Techno starts listing off who has the discs, dream and tubbo, And Then: “Just Dream now, just Dream.” “Doesn’t Tubbo have one of the discs?” tommy remembers in Real Time that tubbo does and then “As soon as we get the one off Dream then the one off of Tubbo is fine, I’ll just take away Dream’s power.” which technoblade explicitly talks over.

this is Extremely reminiscent of tommy’s earlier reactions to dream, where he couldn’t decide how he was supposed to feel about him (whether he wanted to see him, whether he was his friend or not, etc). and moreover, it’s very clear that he still doesn’t want to hurt tubbo. technoblade very clearly understood that, he commented on it himself, but he didn’t address it and he was openly dismissive of it. he didn’t actually care as long as tommy verbally agreed.

- here’s what you get when you put it all together: technoblade tears down tommy’s self worth alone while framing tommy as Better while he’s with technoblade and doing what techno wants him to do, he actively tries to convince tommy in plain words that his friends don’t care about him and are bad for him enforcing his isolation from them, techno presents himself as a friend to tommy and holds that promise of friendship over his head, it’s specifically the Promise Of A Positive Relationship Where Someone Wants Him that gets tommy’s to verbally agree but even Then he’s clearly confused and hesitant. it wasn’t Enthusiastic consent to destroy his home and technoblade should be smart enough to see that.

all of this builds off of the abuse and conditioning that tommy received from dream for Months in exile, and while technoblade couldn’t have known that he Was specifically saying and doing all of this explicitly in the context of trying to convince tommy to join him. it was intentional manipulation even if it wasn’t intentionally tapping into tommy’s previous abuse. That’s why tommy agreed, he really didn’t. legitimately, he just wanted to keep all of the people that he cared about close to him and safe, this included Both tubbo and technoblade at this point. he Wanted to be technoblade’s friend and he Wanted to keep tubbo safe, but there was no avenue where he could have both and technoblade presented the option where tommy didn’t join him as the option where he would get neither because tubbo hurting was inevitable.

4: the idea that tommy was just using technoblade as a meat shield is just, false. tommy’s goal was to get back the disc from dream Specifically because dream said that he wanted it to have power over tommy so tommy taking it back would help protect him And his friends from dream. this turned out to be completely true as tubbo giving dream the other disc was Specifically the catalyst for dream destroying l’manberg and dream Specifically Stated in no uncertain terms that he’d only been holding off from destroying them because he didn’t have the other disc yet. (Link 1, Link 2)

that said, tommy wasn’t the one who started the alliance in the first place. tommy had explicitly intended to try to get them back on his own, had stated that all the way back during technoblade’s interaction with him on the first day of tommy’s exile (Link, Link 2). Tommy went to technoblade because he was in walking distance and tommy had been told by dream that he’d be killed if he went into l’manberg or the greater smp. technoblade had supplies and tommy literally had nothing on account of it all being blown up.

tommy’s plan was to steal from technoblade undetected, run away, and then defeat dream Somehow. it wasn’t a very well thought out plan but he literally almost committed suicide so I think we can excuse if it’s a little slapdash. Technoblade is the one that stopped him and convinced him to form an alliance. technoblade used tommy’s desire for the discs as bait because he’d specifically fished for that information at the start of his exile, he’d even implied he’d been thinking about recruiting tommy all the way back then Before the butcher army situation (“I’m just saying Tommy, if you wanted those discs back well- perhaps you’ve been working with the wrong people.”)

technoblade didn’t understand the significance of the discs to tommy Or their association with dream, he only understood them as a physical object that tommy cared about, so dream was not a factor in him recruiting tommy. tommy still refused, it wasn’t until technoblade promised that they wouldn’t destroy l’manberg or hurt tubbo that tommy finally agreed, and the discs themselves Had Been A Means To Try To Protect His Friends. dream had already been threatening l’manberg before tommy’s trial happened, and in dream’s speech where he brought up the discs he’d Actively threatened the lives of everyone in l’manberg. he only agreed to help technoblade under the condition that l’manberg wouldn’t be destroyed because his entire goal was tied into protecting the people in l’manberg.

tommy thought that if he could get rid of the leverage dream had over l’manberg then he could make up with his friends and go back, there is no meaning to the discs if there is no l’manberg or if his friends don’t Want him.

technoblade Did protect tommy from dream and that was very nice of him, but that wasn’t tommy Using him. at this point they were friends and technoblade made the choice to help him. not every interaction is transactional and every good deed you do for someone doesn’t translate to “using” once you’re no longer on good terms.

@shadowyfriendkidtrash​ said: good thing tommyinnit wasn’t only staying with technoblade for his items! and still stayed with him after he confessed wanting to destroy lmanberg! that would really shoot this post down huh!

people be like wow c!technoblade was a manipulator as if his presence wasn’t a net positive in tommys life. (End Transcription)

I really just need to gesture at what I’ve already written here, but I Do think that it’s worth highlighting/refuting this idea that’s floating around in parts of the fandom that technoblade is somehow immune to criticism because he helped tommy, that tommy Owed him somehow or was a user because techno showed him kindness.

dream helped tommy with the petwars during the pogtopia arc, he gave tommy chests full of things, he kept tommy company. he also enabled wilbur’s downward spiral, intentionally played on the paranoia in pogtopia with the lie about traitors, and ultimately aided both the destruction of l’manberg and wilbur’s death. does tommy Owe dream his friendship, his loyalty, his Respect for the kindness that dream had showed him? dream’s actions towards tommy specifically were a net positive, it was wilbur and l’manberg that were manipulated into burning after all. how about when dream brought tommy back to life and insisted that tommy owed him now?

helping someone in a time of need is not an act of kindness if you use it as leverage to try to bend them to your will, kindness is not transactional. moreover, the good you do for someone does not erase or justify the bad. “techno was a positive presence in tommy’s life” does not and will Never negate “techno manipulated tommy,” and this is important Because It’s Not Just Applicable To This Fictional Situation.

parents can be manipulative, parents can be neglectful, parents can be abusive, and those same people can have a net positive impact on your life through providing for your needs that you could not provide to yourself on your own. someone helping you in a time of crisis does not entitle them to treat you however they want Because they helped you, and it’s genuinely a dangerous mindset to act like someone in need now Owes their “savior.”

the Only thing that tommy promised technoblade was helping him commit minor terrorism, which tommy did and then some. tommy didn’t ask for techno’s gifts, he didn’t ask for techno’s protection, he didn’t ask techno to help him with his mental health. technoblade Gave those things freely Without the implication of payment being attached. technoblade gained tommy’s trust and affection through these things, but he was ultimately not owed them. and when techno did and said things that hurt tommy it was fully within tommy’s right to retract those things. because kind behavior is not a transaction.

reframing the acceptance of kindness freely offered as “using” after someone has fallen out with you reframes it not as kindness but as trying to buy someone’s loyalty. technoblade using the fact that he saved tommy and cared for him as leverage to try to get tommy to change his beliefs to match his is, kind of gross actually ! helping an abuse victim and then saying “you have to believe what I believe and do what I want you to do or you’ve betrayed me” Is Pretty Weirdchamp.

I Don’t think that technoblade did all of this consciously, and I Do think the he did genuinely care for tommy at least to an extent. but this framing of Tommy as some kind of user or selfish or like he Owes technoblade because he accepted help in the aftermath of severe abuse is genuinely fucked up. if you don’t think that technoblade was manipulative then just Say That, you really don’t have to be weird about victims of abuse to say that you like the pig man.

putting this under a readmore w/ general tw: discourse, negativity, transphobia/racism/antisemitism mentions

But techno fucking popped in and dropped this