something you all need to understand about this blog, is that it is my madcap personal diary scrapbook thing like when i was 10 and developed an overwhelming obsession for bayern munich despite having zero other interest in sports or football and then handmade zines about all its players for no reason whatsoever. i develop new interests, i put down my most ill-considered and hasty thoughts, i put down my most considered and well thought out ones. its a mixed bag and if thatâs not for you, then mayhaps we ought to part ways
i make a point of tagging rigorously bc i believe there are enough tools for people to curate their experiences online! some of the common tags are underneath the cut - block them if you donât want to see them, or scroll. asks are always open, but please remember that i am a real person with a 3d experience of the world that doesnât all appear on this blog: just like you.
I also do regularly check the blogs following me arenât spam or suspicious blogs. If you have an empty blog with nothing to indicate thereâs a real person behind the blog, Iâm going to block you.
You can also find me on dreamwidth, bluesky & pillowfort at the same handle. Mutuals, friends & folks Iâve chatted with please feel free to drop me a line on tumblr chat for my discord handle. If you're wondering what in fresh hell my url is supposed to mean: here's an explainer.
Currently very deep in a Tolkien pit.Â
Tags for blocking: personal, the vaguest of vagueblogs, star wars, star wars thotz, my meta, indpol, living that capitalist lyf, god gave rock and roll to you, silm, tolkien, lotr, silm thotz, politics, current events, long post, wank for ts, my fic, my fic meme
Other recurring tags to block/filter: replies, anonymous asks, ask meme, we will all fry together when we fry (serious climate change tag), pending environment tag, hashtag third world gothic, left stuff, development things, imperialism, neoimperialism, american imperialism, colonialism, debt tyranny, just another day in the field, psych stuff, gender stuff, anthropological sorcery, fandom things
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Then Sauron shifted shape, from wolf to serpent, and from monster to his own accustomed form; but he could not elude the grip of huan without forsaking his body utterly.
the thing is that the quest for the silmaril was clearly intended to be celegorm and curufin's shot at redemption and it's not anyone's fault but their own that they continually beef it. the quest cannot succeed without the hound of celegorm and the knife of curufin. there are clearly celegorm and curufin shaped holes in the questing party to retrieve the sacred objects to which celegorm and curufin are oathbound. it is the fault of no one except celegorm and curufin that they aren't there for the main event. i wonder if that's why angrist snapped is because beren and luthien only needed the one but it would have held for all three if celegorm and curufin had been where they had every chance to be. shame they'll never know
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Thank you for the tag, I am thrilled to see each little update about the Silmerton fic! First, because I like to be helpful, have a fish đ , then please may I have some rabbit tea đ°â or rabbit and tea, however takes your fancy
đ just keep swimming and spend some time on the fic
I actually really needed it because I was replotting the thing and arrived at the last sketch of notes I had made to myself, which literally was just: "Assimilationist ending 3 (my personal favourite and also funniest option) â Following their flight from England," AND NOTHING ELSE. Anyway, crisis averted, I remembered what it was about and it was about the one time I genuinely bamboozled a respected old lady conservationist by telling her that there just so happened to have been a girl who worked at my org with the same last name and phone number who was not related to me at all bc I just didn't want to get into the whole question of Transitioning Into Being A Man when we had been so successful at calling me Michael and referring to me with he/him pronouns. I think that's a nonspoilerific way of giving you an idea ;)
đ°â are there any scenes where they bone like bunnies?
There are SEVERAL, but because you asked for a rabbit tea fact - I discovered after the fact that the masquerade scene with foot caressing eroticisms actually has some reasonable historical accuracy in that a) according to Meghan Kozba, the Viscount Courtenay dressed as a woman on two occasions, and b) according to a recounting by Princess Lieven in An Elegant Madness by Venetia Murray:
At a grand ball she attended in the country, she told Metternich, so many couples wandered off into the bushes that by the end of the dance almost the only people left in the ballroom were dĂŠbutantes, chaperones and the host.
Which leaves Eloise nicely in a limbo (not a debutante! not a chaperone! out for 10 years!) for various schemes and intrigues and eroticisms to take place since this too is happening at a private masquerade in sort of the countryside (not!Wimbledon).
â OKAY BUT HAVE THIS OTHER FACT ANYWAY
Mamma Mia The ABBA Musical Is Real And It Happened In Regency England.
From An Elegant Madness by Venetia Murray:
One particularly fortunate product of disputed parentage was a charming girl called Maria Fagniani, known as âMie-Mieâ. She was the daughter of the Marchesa Fagniani, a famous beauty who was particularly free with her favours at the end of the eighteenth century. In effect, Mie-Mie had three fathers, all of them rich and all of them claiming paternity. The first candidate was her motherâs husband, the Marchese, and the others were Lord March, later Duke of Queensberry, and George Selwyn. The last two, both well-known rakes, had been lovers of the Marchesa at the same time, and each regarded Maria as his daughter and heiress. Selwyn left her ÂŁ20,000, and cynically appointed the Duke as trustee. âOld Qâ, as the Duke was usually called, went on to leave her another ÂŁ100,000 and so Mie-Mie, in spite of her doubtful lineage, became one of the most eligible girls on the market.
another book with sentences so bad i feel like i'm in physical pain. why must people keep writing regency romance novels when they have no interest in the novel form and are really only playing out the tv show/movie in their heads. jesus christ, i'm going back to my weird ice novel from the russian empire.
red dit.c om/r/heated rivalryfanfics/comments/1uj ats8/megathread_claude_ ai_code_found_ in_fics/
watching this from afar but thought you might find this interesting...i personally don't use AI in fanfic bc well that's not the joy of it to me + environmental concerns but this is so fascinating to me - i didn't know how widespread ai use was in fic but also the fact that people feel like they need to use ai! and all the people in the comments who are either vindicated that they knew it was ai from the writing and the people who are very disappointed by it...i think this is going to result in witchhunting and fandom drama but i think we're going to see more of these posts sadly
god i'm sorry but i'm so sick of this shit. completely unnecessary and the endless disclaimers about "this is not for harrassment" and "we are just trying to help people make ethical choices" and the claim this is supposed to get people to tag their fics for having used ai combined with language about "ai corrupting fan spaces" is extremely fucking disingenuous lmao. you cannot in one breath use supercharged language about "corruption" and "real human connection" and then in the other claim you are not shaming people. the shame is baked into these moralised judgements about the "corruption" of fandom and "real" connection. this is exactly the sort of deeply slimy two-faced shit that i absolutely abhorr.
i am going to say several things now that i have been saying in private for months. i am going to sound judgemental, but frankly, if you're sitting on your moral high horse passing down judgements about people you can take it. you cannot talk shit without expecting to get hit (as i almost certainly expect to w this, tho obvs i am switching anon off in a couple of hours bc fuck that noise).
1) i genuinely and truly believe that call outs like this are far more corrosive to fandom than minding your own business or feeling sad because you got got by some mid claude generated prose. all this does is foster an atmosphere of paranoia, hypervigilance, increased scrutiny and systemised unpersoning & dehumanisation of "immoral" and "deceptive" others. in every single case i have seen where someone is deemed to have used ai to create a fanwork, i have only seen people gleeful that they actually finally have a "moral" target they can get mad about and rip to complete shreds sans consequence and sans repercussion.
2) this is the literally most counterproductive way to get people to tag their fics for ai use. once again, i point to the shrill insistence that fandom is about Real Human Connection and the language of "corruption" - do you think these are neutral terms? are you incredibly naive and foolish? these are words loaded with shame. the subtext of all these statements is: if you aren't putting your own real blood and sweat into this work of art, you are corrupting and poisoning fandom. in one breath you are invoking both the protestant work ethic and its moralisms and dirt/purity binaries in relation to literal humanness and being part of community. shaming has literally never worked in the history of anything to get people to adhere to something. if you want people to tag their ai fics, you, person who gets upset at the concept of being "tainted", have to manage your own big feelings and create a space where using ai is a morally neutral thing* and where engaging with ai created works does not make you a fandom outcast.
3) i do think some reflection is in order to contemplate why people even feel the need to turn to ai to create fic. what are the circumstances that produce such a feeling? let's think about this, for a moment, with some empathy. do people feel like they need to create something in order to participate in fandom? if so, why do they believe that? are there certain ideas that we entrench viz. artists and writers as "real" fandom and everyone else as "second class" members of fandom? (lbr, this statement is implicit in a lot of posts that go around about how authors deserve more comments. ask for feedback by all means; but the insistence that there is a "real" fandom and implicitly therefore, a fandom which does not matter, which is not productive, which does not contribute and therefore make fandom "real" are ideas which i simply think is point blank wrong. merely being in fandom IS fandom.) if people feel the need to create, why do they believe merely writing it out themselves is not enough? are they afraid of "failing" as writers? why? do they feel they're not good enough to make art? why? if they believe this is the only way they can make friends and have community? if so, why? the answers to all of these questions, in my opinion, at least partly indicts fandom culture at present and should call for some serious self-reflection!
4) genuinely WHAT harm is being done to you by the existence of an unlabelled ai fic? what actual harm? why does it hurt you so much? what are you feeling so deceived about? yes i get that you come to fandom for human connection, but what about a fic writer using an llm actually precludes there being a person behind the fic? what specifically is upsetting you? can you actually sit with your feelings and identify what specifically you're mad about?
5) now for my really mean and problematic opinion :) : i frankly believe half the "distressed" feelings about being "deceived" by ai use are because people have created a moral identity out of not reading or using ai which butts straight up against their tastes in fanfiction running heavily towards the kind of deeply ubiquitous ao3 house style fic which almost certainly underpins LLM data training sets. in making a whole moral personality out of something which directly implicates your taste, you fabricate an insecurity which must be excised: what better way than by turning it outwards to claim that you were deceived and taken in and therefore, that the deceiver has committed some unspecified crime against fandom and must be sent into the proverbial corner? there are exactly two solutions to this. either you become more confident about your taste and you own it and you also own the recognition that this kind of prose is pretty easy to generate using an llm; or you develop a taste for the difficult, which is currently more difficult to generate using an llm but most probably will not be in a couple of years (i'm not being a doomer here, but realistic. at some point llm capacity will cross the threshold of what even a canny reader will be able to identify).
6) i think we could all do with a good hefty dose of a) DON'T LIKE DON'T READ and b) MINDING OUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS
*i am literally uninterested in debating whether or not ai is morally bad, i do not believe that anti-ai politics is a real or meaningful politics. if you care about its environmental impact please go out and do something about it instead of yelling at people on the internet. if you care about labour rights, please go and do something about it instead of yelling at individuals on the internet. i care about economic extractivism, exploitation and imperialism, all of which ai is implicated in yes - but which a lot of other industries (most industries, ngl) are implicated in as well. merely removing "ai" will not solve any of the problems that we are facing. if you want ai fics to be filterable, you have to deal with the fact that the correct strategy is to make it morally neutral and to some degree acceptable, much in the same way that the noncon and underage labels on ao3 are morally neutral statements about the content of a fic. the question is whether or not you strategically want something or if you want your moral jollies.
This is one of the most tumblr interactions I've seen in a minute. It's almost like a throwback, the level of melodramatic performance art outrage is very mid 2010s. This site gets blamed for most of the worst discourses that still circulate social media, and that's probably true. This site doesn't get enough credit for popularizing the rhetoric around morality that's often used online nowadays.
It's just odd to me to watch people selectively pick and choose when common unkind behavior - talking badly about someone on the internet - is acceptable if you agree with the opinion and a viscious moral crusade if you don't. It reeks more of insecurity and a need to make this ironclad argument that no one can refute rather than sincerely held beliefs.
It's fine to disagree with anon's behavior - meanness aside, trying to investigate every fic you read for possible ai usage is ultimately pointless. I know fan fic writers take their hobby very seriously but the statement - most fanfics are not well written - shouldn't be a controversial statement. It makes sense that a fanfic would sound like ai. It's like acting shocked that fast food drinks have too much sugar. Also messaging random strangers you don't know to get them to join in on your shit talking has always been weirdo behavior. Make some friends and talk shit about people to them. I do agree with dragging anon for lying about their true motivations. Like it is so cowardly to try to get someone to validate your judgement of someone under the guise of "concern" lmao. People shouldn't try to pass of shit they know they didn't make as their own but lying online is hardly a new phemomenon. It's just not worth fixating on.
The response to the anon is the same masturbatory self righteousness it criticizes the anon for. Saying with all seriousness that shame has never worked to get people to adhere to anything while publicly admonishing someone is a comical lack of self awareness. Like which is it, did you want anon to stop this behavior or not? If they actually listen to you, then guess what? Shame works. You don't have to like it or even think it should be used most of the time, but it can work. If you truly believe shame doesn't change behavior, then you don't actually think anon will be shamed into doing what you tell them to do and will probably just find someone who will validate them. Do you actually care about the cOrRoDiNg fAnDoM or not? Regardless, you both are just getting your "moral jollies" on different high horses. Maybe what actually made you upset is seeing yourself in someone else's actions?
I can't help but feel that you and anon also have not actually doing anything about the politics you espouse online in common. I get that people are multifaceted and we all care about silly inconsequiential shit too much. However, I have a hard time buying you've actually done anything meaningful in regards to labor rights, exploitation, or impearlism.
The virtue signaling alone in your first and second bulletpoints were just... Imagine if people cared about "systemised unpersoning", dehumanization, and ostrasization that actually mattered in the real world. In the scenario you made up in your head to be self righteously outraged about is a fantasy wherein the most oppressed group on earth - fanfiction writers - experience social death for using ai and can never find community. That is laughably absurd. Like any polarizing issue, people both for and against gen ai are annoying about it ie pick arguments with others, bully people, etc. For as many "ai callouts" there are just many pro ai people harrassing people that don't like ai - taunting them, mocking them, feeding their works into ai and bragging about stealing them etc.
There are plenty of people online that like ai and have made their own communities for people that feel the same. You can just say that you think anon is being a dick without making up scenarios where anyone that uses ai will be barred from all internet spaces. Even with something as low stakes as internet fandom spaces, what actually ostrasizes people is racism, white supremacy, misogyny, etc. I hope you defend actual marginzalized people in these spaces with this level of passion and zeal.
Sometimes it's okay to just tell someone they're being a dick without doing intellectual cosplay.
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See, I think people only appreciate art if they feel that they themselves couldn't do it. It's not that the art is esoteric or abstract or weird, people love The Chocolate Guy, or weird machines in art museums that flail around, because they recognize the amount of skill these artists have. But when they see a piece like IKB 191 (1962), they'll laugh and point and say "I could do that", and won't appreciate the piece until you've explained all the work that went into mixing up Klein Blue and inventing the color.
I have to think this sort of reaction is a result of envy, and the belief that someone is making easy money by pretending their art is good, and that art should only be reserved for people that are literal magicians in their talent, and not for people who value the simple methods.
The thing though is, if you look at a piece of art and think "I can make that", please do so. Please make that art. These artists who value 'simple' artistic expressions are opening the door for you, they're placing value on art that doesn't take 20 years of apprenticeship to even come close to making. They want you to succeed, make that art. Do it. Make the art.
the media literacy on this website may be piss poor but still when i see someone handwringing about media literacy ~70% of the time they're just complaining about the fact that other people disagree with them
Television producers who find their message âfailing to get acrossâ are frequently concerned to straighten out the kinks in the communication chain, thus facilitating the âeffectivenessâ of their communication. Much research which claims the objectivity of âpolicy-oriented analysisâ reproduces this administrative goal by attempting to discover how much of a message the audience recalls and to improve the extent of understanding. No doubt misunderstandings of a literal kind do exist. The viewer does not know the terms employed, cannot follow the complex logic of argument or exposition, is unfamiliar with the language, finds the concepts too alien or difficult or is foxed by the expository narrative. But more often broadcasters are concerned that the audience has failed to take the meaning as they â the broadcasters â intended. What they really mean to say is that viewers are not operating within the âdominantâ or âpreferredâ code.
Stuart Hall, Encoding and Decoding in the Television Discourse.
and like, if individual pieces of art aren't materially impactful on the world, is capital a Art capital I Important in some big metaphyiscal way? i don't really think so either honestly. i mean i love art and creating art and thinking about art. that's like half of what this blog is about, the fact that i need somewhere to put all my thoughts about works of art. art is hugely important to me and has shaped my life. but ultimately art is just a particular set of social and intellectual activities, and many people live perfectly happy and fufilling lives without ever particularly thinking about it. i think "art is a deep metaphysical need of the soul", "art is what makes us human" etc is just more artist self-flattery
regarding your comment that non-propaganda art is pretty low impact, my first reaction was to disregard it because I'm an artist, but I know that's not a good way to engage with stuff and I'm genuinely curious as to your reasoning. I haven't been able to form a coherent rebuttal but I'd like to think about it more.
By 'low-impact' do you mean impact on the material reality of people's lives, of politics, of marxism? Do you think that someone can make art that is effective propaganda without meaning to?
I agree that people especially on the 'art appreciation' website will have strong reactions to that statement as did I when reading it, I think it would be silly to expect otherwise, but I think it's something worth thinking about. I'm not super well-read even though I'm trying to fix that and I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter if you have a moment.
i mean, like, any individual media object just has an extremely low impact on the world, materially and politically. when art or even specifically directed propaganda has influence on the world, it is in aggregate, as the manifestation of a cultural trend or the characteristics of mass media production--for instance, i don't think gears of war or top gun are individually very influential on the world in a vacuum, they are simply individual examples of the very influential billion-dollar mass culture imperialist propaganda industry.
and like, in case where a particular work or piece of propaganda can be singlehandedly influential, the properties of the work itself are secondary to the material factors propagating it and the political factions adopting and appropriating it. like, to take a very extreme example, the protocols of the elders of zion became a hugely important pillar of global antisemitism because of its usage by the black hundreds and later by white russian emigres, not because of some remarkably convincing element of its own rhetoric
and yknow, artists like to flatter themselves that they can change the world with their art, and it is a nice story, but it's just not true. it's a liberal conception of history, where it's driven by ideas, and if the right Ideas are simply released into the world they will drive history on the correct path. but history is not driven by ideas. at best, a piece of art or propaganda can contribute to a broader cultural context which shapes and is in turn shaped by the material basis of society. but if you are not attached to any actual material movement, if you are just throwing helium balloons up into the superstructure, i simply don't think it matters a lot at the end of the day. you can't heal the world with comedy
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full climate doomerism but i expect that richer states will start geoengineering more recklessly when heatwaves get more difficult to bear. you've seen cloud seeding operations careen between ineffective and dangerous, i expect earnest attempts to recreate the plot of snowpiercer soon. there's already an israeli startup lobbying the us govt and getting good press to disrupt conventions around solar reflection materials research. lets disrupt sensitive global weather patterns like monsoons to cool the planet <3
I think I know what I like from a text (literary pleasures, if you will) but if you were to articulate this for yourself, what would it be?
so well, there are multiple levels to this for me, not all of them immediately conscious to me! some of these layers are also only available to me in retrospect - and by retrospect, i mean, sometimes it takes years, if not decades, to figure out why i spent an entire season reading just x fic, or why a specific novel hit really hard at a specific moment of my life, but a later revisit felt flat and empty. i don't think that i'm particularly unique in these reading experiences fwiw! its fairly common to see posts on here abt like, how revisiting something that was formative can sometimes be a disappointing experience and well, i think part of it is the growing up part of it, but also some of it is just that whatever generated a specific deep-seated pleasure managed to resolve itself and now that heightened emotional state is no longer accessible.
but okay anyway to be more specific, for me at any rate there are like approximately three layers to textual pleasure for fic especially. these layers operate at a mix of conscious, subconscious and completely unconscious - and it is not always that i am completely aware of what the specific pleasure being experienced is. they are, roughly: craft/technicality/language, encountering (or examining) ideas/concepts, intertextual relationships, novelty, catharsis/emotional stimulation, fantasy & the erotic.
illustrating this w a reading of @balrogballs The Admiral's Folly, which he very kindly agreed to in order to make this a lot less abstract. its a fic that i've done a lot of thinking abt, it has a lot of layers of textual pleasures to it ranging from the technical to the highly personal & idiosyncratic and you can theoretically read it canon blind (tho i think the beauty of this one is that reading it in context of the canon also enriches both the canon and fic in other ways.) please be warned it goes into discussions of religious homophobia and also a frank discussion of my own Issues In Life, so pls disengage if you don't want to read all of that
craft/technical/language textual pleasures - this to me is the sheer pleasure you get from encountering a passage that is just beautifully put together, so much so that you feel that you're watching a virtuosic performance crescendoing to its grand triumph. but its also about like, the broader cleverness of form and structure and style the author is working with, which may not always be immediately available to the eye - and which are sometimes that much pleasurable for not being easily accessible, sort of like completing a puzzle to access the prize. in this particular fic, one of the things that gives me great pleasure is the disjuncture between the narration in finnu's voice, which recalls to me the wry restraint of older english novels, juxtaposed against the dialogue which has the cadence/rhythm of malayalam translated into english - which Z has also very specifically talked abt as a very specific regional dialect of malayalam. its a very sort of cerebral but also playful joy in seeing how someone deliberately wields language to create the character's field of view for us. plus there are a lot of really beautiful passages/sentences. take this perfect little sentence: When it came to public punishment, perpendicularity was the point. elegantly, pithily constructed and both beautiful to hear and say. there is something very pleasurable in prose that has been refined to its sharpest point.
encountering ideas/concepts - i don't even think this has to be new ideas to oneself necessarily, but even just a rearrangement of thinking, or a joining of dots that hadn't been joined before. in this particular fic there are so many ideas/thoughts: of the forms of abuse that take the form of instilling perpetual shame in a child, of the way this form of turning a child into the sin-eater of the family is replicated at the state level in the way in which india turns its muslim citizens into sin-eaters for the state. again, another very cerebral pleasure that feels more like a puzzle slotting into place: its a very conscious and aware pleasure.
intertextual relationships - this to me is one of the key cerebral pleasures of fanfiction that original fiction can't always deliver on i.e. the transformations of meaning that takes place in having a work of fiction interact both with a source text and possibly even with other texts. there is a pleasure in this fic in tracing the ways in which fingon's rescue of maedhros is repeated (fingon gets maedhros out of prison) and then also subverted (maedhros rescues fingon from his family) and the sort of ways in which politics and romantic sentiment sort of shift around bc of the repetition and subversion (fingon saves maedhros and saves a protector; is this an act of selfless romanticism or selfish love? what is the difference?); or in the ways in which feanor and nerdanel "make" their children, and feanor especially molds them to a self-destructive political cause etc. but!!! Z has also talked abt the influence of the saki story Sredni Vashtar on the story and that also makes a difference to how i read the fic and also sredni vashtar when i revisit it - the fic generates new meaning both for the silmarillion and this other story, which is i think one of the very unique cerebral pleasures fic can do that published works can't.
novelty - ok so the funny thing abt this one is that i don't think fic has to deliver on this textual pleasure and fic is effective precisely bc of the act of repetition it delivers... but there ARE pleasures in reading a new version, a new take on a story: in this case a new take and exploration of religious christian homophobia, one which focuses less on the standard... let's call it the boy interrupted form of homophobia, and more on the form of homophobia that presents itself as a gentle love that simply wants their child to have a happy life, free of suffering - while being the primary agent of that suffering.
which brings me to the less cerebral pleasures of reading i.e. everything going on in the id -
emotional catharsis/stimulation - one of the great powers of fic more so than published works is that fic is almost exclusively oriented around strongly emotion-driven narratives & journeys (which is what people mean, i think, when they say they love character-driven narratives, but are uninterested in litfic which is very character-driven). sometimes this is through the language deployed, which is highly emotive, or constructed to arouse strong emotions in us. but its also a more structura thing. the big fic genres and tropes are in some ways charting emotional journeys for us - some kind of internal or external emotional confrontation, forced on the character through a confluence of structural circumstances, followed by resolution of some sort. this particular fic does not hew to standard fic tropes, but it delivers a very classic form of triumphant emotional catharsis when maedhros shows up on his motorbike to rescue fingon from the public humiliation ritual being inflicted on fingon. the reader is pulled into the vortext of fingon's emotions first, both his deep sense of shame about himself, but also his deep and giddy love for maedhros culminating in a very deeply romantic encounter in the eponymous folly, before hurtling towards the disaster. we experience fingon's devastation along with him, but also the moment of liberation and elation - and that movement in emotion does deliver a very specific charged pleasure! i always feel like john bender punching the air at the end of the breakfast club when i reach that particular scene y'know?
which brings me to the really personal stuff -
fantasy - fic particularly is good at i think a process that some forms of therapy are really good at (e.g. narrative therapy), which is allowing you to experience the same sequence of emotions over and over again in a safe and controlled way, because the outcome is predictable - the fake dating ends in real dating, the enemies become lovers etc - and so it is safe. bc of the often highly structured form of fic, it allows you to engage with these complex and difficult to articulate fantasies of intimacy, being loved and cared for, of escaping shame, of healing, of confrontation, of self-destruction and to do it safely bc of the predictability - and to do so without having to speak these thoughts out loud to a therapist, where you might have to encounter both your own shame and their complex emotions. of course this is not always a safe process - and this is where the paranoia about experiencing the "wrong" pleasure is most visible. e.g. are you experiencing this incest fic in the right way? are you experiencing this noncon fic in the right way? what is the pleasure you are finding? how dare you?
in this particular fic, well to put it very baldly: this is as close to a pure id fantasy for me because i was that child in the parental torment nexus. in many ways i am still that child. so when i read finnu here, i read my own thoughts, my own anxieties and fears mirrored at me. and then i achieve some kind of fantastical catharsis: maedhros rescues finnu and i experience the fantastic pleasure of having been rescued by someone who cared enough to look beyond the overt "kindness" of my parents, to what actually was being done - who cared enough to "see" me, but also to act and rescue me, so that the child could still continue circling around the difficulty of parental love producing parental cruelty and still survive. this is not a pleasure that could have been produced by any other kind of sequence of the telling. of course i read garrard conley's boy interrupted and while there was some level of catharsis there, there was no real room for that kind of intrusion of the fantasy child self because it was an experience so different and yet also so tangibly "realer" than my own bc it lacked that plausible deniability. this fic touches on exactly that plausible deniability and how the plausible deniability is part of the cruelty of it all through its association with love and the process by which shame is placed as a burden on a child. and part of the pleasure is being able to stick a middle finger up and walk away from that mess and to be liberated and loved in equal measure - rather than the hard reality of having to walk away to possibly precarity and loneliness.
and like, there are other ways this pleasure plays out right? my fic also holds these fantasies in one way or the other, narrated and structured through various different means. but the specific pleasure of fandom is that against all the odds you might find a work that runs around that specific fantasy and delivers something that you weren't able to articulate for yourself otherwise. but it also means that any disjuncture in expectation can be felt and experienced as life-threatening - which is exactly the point at which many of these moral crusades begin and also where many of their hypocrisies lie.
erotic - it feels really funny to come to this after those very intense sections, but like, this is also something fic is really good at bc ao3 anglophone fic especially is so centred on the erotic. sometimes this is a little and specific detail: "I was almost afraid of the hollow ache between my hips, a spiritual womb, feeling as though I might die if I did not cleave or was not cloven unto." and sometimes it is specifically the point at which erotic pleasure and fantasy pleasure intersect and become one:
âUnburnt,â he said softly, his hand running up my thigh. âThe folly is unburnt, Finnu. The mark of the love between the Zamindar and the Marakkar, to this day stands unburnt.âÂ
Unburnt, yes. And I loved it, and I loved him. I loved him so much I could have wept, but I laughed, shameless, uncaring as to the fact that we were, technically, out in public. ...
âUnburnt,â Russo reminded me again, quietly, kissing the nape of my neck as he draped himself over me. âIt remains unburnt.âÂ
âBecause they were the very best of friends?â I asked again, twisting the question so I could hear the answer anew. I had let him in, and he was holding so perfectly still, so the moment would last. His deepest breaths were mine. âIs that why, Russo?âÂ
âBecause they loved each other,â he corrected me as he started to move behind me. He was everywhere at once, his teeth grazing just under my ear as he took me in hand. âBecause they loved each other like this. Like us, Finnu. Likeâoh, just like us, Finnu.âÂ
in this case the specific erotic fantasy pleasure of: shame does not need to exist and there is a person like me who is genuinely loved and genuinely desired and cared for, who can be fucked and not be destroyed or damned; a child who can be seen and held and who can still be considered perfect, rather than ruined and destroyed and despicable, bound for hell.
(see also: the erotic fantasy pleasure of the rape fantasy as means of achieving agency over rape or the anxieties around it; or the erotic fantasy pleasure of enemies to lovers as the specific libidinal catharsis of trying to piece together what to do with the person or thing that keeps hurting you. frankly, maybe all of this is the substance of all the darkfic fantasies that so upset people for doing "reading" the wrong way: experiencing a pleasure and fantasy that is not morally condemnatory alone, but in the process unsettling society because it reveals the failures of social structures in themselves...)
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anyway, reading this fic aside, i do think a lot of anxieties in fandom about "pleasure" in reading are really about what people are enjoying: are they enjoying this work in the right way, as an edifying and moral piece of literature? or are they experiencing libidinal fantasies, erotics or even worse erotic fantasies through it? if they are experiencing these pleasures, does that render the text rotten? if they are experiencing these libidinal pleasures while reading an ai generated fic, does that mean these libidinal pleasures are rendered even more childish, immature and bad? and like. i cannot stress enough. these are 18th century anxieties. we have been having these same anxieties since the advent of the novel, especially abt experiencing its joys in the wrong ways and taking away the wrong, corrupting, libidinal pleasures rather than the right edifying pleasures. and in fic fandom we try to launder these libidinal pleasures thru the cerebral ones, but like, the power of fic is precisely its power to dig deeply into these libidinal pleasures.
and like, the libidinal pleasures are not divorced from the intellectual/cerebral ones, which is i think what also generates a lot of anxiety. that all that beauty, intertextual pleasure and deep thinking could be harnessed towards these fantasies of the id and the erotic and produce something that is meaningful on that level and not just on an assumed sterile literary plane...
but of course, that is the pleasure of the novel and how we've been enjoying novels for centuries and exactly what ye old 18th century moralists were morbidly terrified about. so you know. plus ca change and all that.
that said, that's what i mean by saying i'm not sure people know what they're talking abt the pleasure of a text, bc there is a vast gap between what people say and what they observably do/enjoy. that gap interests me and i think a lot of interesting things are going on at the subconscious/id level in that gap y'know?