TamraSpizz

Tamara, if you’re reading this, it’s absolutely fine to quote other people’s comments (on the internet, this is usually indicated with the © symbol followed by the commenter’s name; on Tumblr, you use the “@” symbol to tag the user you’re replying to). But blurring out the author and posting a screenshot of a snippet of someone else’s comment—while repeating what you’ve already written in your reply, without adding anything regarding “other comments of yours”—is a pretty strange approach. Okay, but still, out of all my “other comments,” the one I’d most like a reply to is this one:

“If you can’t handle the pain of another person—someone you love—that raises some serious questions.” (с) tamraspizz  – What kind of questions? Please be a little more specific. I’m sorry, but I feel empathy for the people close to me; some people are like that sometimes.”

But maybe we'll see this in some kind of “research” in the future?

If you’d like to read the full text of the comments, you can find them via the link to my post about the interview with Steven Rooney. In a more detailed (with more quotes, photos, and videos) and reader-friendly format, the continuation of my commentary (the comment with the author’s name hidden from the post by tamraspizz) can be found in the following posts:

I suppose all I can do is repost my own reply to tamraspizz’s comment, since she didn’t say anything new. But I suppose this is more convenient than reading the text in the comments:

Lae’zel. I don’t think that uncovering the truth and freeing herself from faith in Vlaakith can be called a loss in any context whatsoever. Breaking free from a tyrannical cult that exploited you, one in which the best are destined to become sacrifices devoured by Vlaakith,—is nothing but a blessing. A blessing in the true sense, not in terms of some sort of “morality” (“morality,” as an abstract social construct, can be tacked onto any atrocity and used to cover up any sadism, as has always been the case throughout human history). What does “her entire worldview was shattered” mean? A worldview isn’t destroyed by new knowledge; it changes. And when a person who served some flawed, tyrannical idea—and allowed themselves to be used—comes to realize reality, finds their own path, and begins to act in their own best interests—that is precisely what personal growth is. It is an entirely positive change.

War appeals to Lae’zel; she relishes battle, and in the fight for her people’s freedom, Lae’zel is truly in her comfort zone, in her rightful place, and has found a life purpose that suits her perfectly. But if she were persuaded to stay in Faerûn, then yes, Lae’zel will be unhappy and unable to find a purpose for herself; she will then pay the price for Tav’s selfishness and for their desire for her to stay (I don’t see the point in Tav trying to convince her to stay, unless, for some reason, Tav—who is in a relationship with her—doesn’t want to go fight alongside her, shoulder to shoulder, for the Githyanki people).

“That sounds noble and inspiring, but what does it actually mean in practice?”—please try asking yourself the same question about what you call a “good” ending for Astarion. Let’s just compare what participating in a war actually means in practice for a warrior who revels in battle, and what this “good” world actually does to Astarion in practice (and the player is asked to let them do it).

Here’s an interesting fact: if Lae’zel learns the truth and becomes loyal to Orpheus, you’ll need to PERSUADE her to swear allegiance to Vlaakith in Act III, as well as persuade her to stay in Faerûn after the final battle, because she wants to fight for her people and doesn’t want to remain in Faerûn. In Lae’zel’s case, as in Astarion’s, Tav uses persuasion to go against their desires and aspirations.

Kevin VanOrd wrote a charming romance for Lae’zel (one can imagine that, in an ideal world, Welch wouldn’t have worked at Larian, and Kevin VanOrd would have written the scenes for Ascended Astarion that Stephen Rooney was unable to write due to illness—the game would surely have been much better). Lae’zel tells her lover:

“In so doing, you made yourself my possession and my obsession.”

At night, Lae’zel wakes the player character and confesses that she is obsessed with them. This is followed by a duel, during which the PC must demonstrate combat prowess to prove that they are worthy of her obsession. If Lae’zel is defeated in the romantic battle against the player’s character, she’ll say:

“You are ‘mine.’ Say the words.”

And there was none of that bullshit directed at her—no “obsession isn’t love” or other “media-literate” nonsense. I think it’s worth quoting Lae’zel whenever people start “comparing” Astarion to Cazador because of the line: “You are mine.” And Lae’zel’s fans had no issues with either Tav’s lines or their facial expressions; everyone praised this romance and was satisfied with it. It was extremely “fun” to debate with a player who highly praised Lae’zel’s romance and claimed that Ascended Astarion “loses his soul,” and that I “just didn’t like the story told by the authors.” This is another example of double standards, hypocrisy, and unfairness toward Astarion.

Shadowheart. The scenario in which Shadowheart kills her parents (they are destined for a very pleasant afterlife in Selune’s domain, and they themselves ask her to let them go; Shadowheart allows them to die as they wish)—that’s the scenario I had in mind. In Faerûn, “death” is not “true death”; souls in Faerûn actually exist physically, and a person’s personality continues to live on after the loss of the physical body—the vessel of the soul. The transition to a deity’s domain, if a person so desires, can quite rightly be described as “letting the soul go”; it is not the same as murder in our world.

In the friendly epilogue at the party, Shadowheart is happy and clearly has a purpose and a place in life that she likes. And that good ending, in which Shadowheart sends her parents off to the Domain of Selune (she chooses this ending herself if you don’t interfere with her decisions at all), —cannot, in principle, be compared to the agony of starvation, the mocking laughter of bastards as you burn in the sun and try to escape, and then, curled up in a ball behind crates at the docks, tending to your wounds. Not to mention everything that Astarion, left as a spawn, goes through. And the suffering from a single wound on her hand would clearly be much less, even if she were persuaded to spare her parents’ lives. You wrote about some “hints” regarding relieving UA’s suffering, but with Shadowheart, you don’t even need “hints”—she can simply chop off her own hand and fit a magical prosthesis. No hand – no pain, and a skilled artificer can craft a magical prosthesis that’s actually better than a regular hand in practical terms. If a Shadowheart fan wants her parents to be alive and for her not to pay for it with pain, there’s no need for a copium—just a simple hand replacement, and that’s it.

And Astarion already has memories of pain, even without any “final gift,” and they’re far more terrifying. I don’t think the developers would have allowed the “Princess of God” (Shadowheart was Swen Vincke’s favorite character) to be tormented the same way Astarion was. To be honest, I used to think that Larian were misogynists who made a good game for heterosexual men, while at the same time trying to force women and queer people who had grown to love Astarion to endure such an atrocity as the UA path—especially after insulting players, who refused to choose it, by shoving sadistic trash in their faces as “fan service” on Valentine’s Day. All my male gamer friends agreed that if they were to put their “waifu” in Astarion’s place in BG3, they would never in a million years choose the option to refuse the ritual and do that to their love interest. But then I was told that, unfortunately, there are a lot of “fixers” among women. And please don’t take this as a lack of respect for Rooney—this is just my old opinion; back then, I didn’t yet know that he finds this romantic arc emotionally satisfying.

But I really missed an important, unpleasant point. The developers give you the opportunity to respect Shadowheart’s autonomy and let her make her own choice. Shadowheart throws the spear herself. The spear is in her hands; she makes the choice. In this case, any Persuasion is really just persuasion. She may not listen to you—she has that option. Or you can let her decide for herself—there’s an option not to interfere. When deciding the fate of her parents, you can also choose not to intervene and let her decide for herself. Astarion is the only one whose fate isn’t in his own hands. Essentially, Tav persuades Astarion not to Ascend/not Ascend, but to stay with the group and keep the romance alive, or to leave, wishing for Tav to die screaming. Why not give Astarion the chance to remember his scars and do as they did with Shadowheart—when the spear is in her hands and “Persuasion” is truly persuasion, not some rather distasteful manipulation? After all, Astarion CAN Ascend in a Solo Run; he recalls his scars (an Intelligence check) during a long rest in Act 2 and must pass an Intelligence check with a difficulty of 15 during the ritual to recall his scars, and he doesn’t need anyone’s help. In order for there to be at least something “sweet” in the bitterness, Rooney could have given Astarion the chance to decide for himself, and then the romantic arc—in which you were unable to fulfill your own inner vow made in Act 2, when, after the confession scene, you’re overcome by a feeling that’s hard to describe, a feeling as if you were holding his wounded heart in your hands, holding it as gently as you can, and there’s nothing more precious in the whole world than that—the vow to protect Astarion from any pain—maybe then it would have made at least some sense, if Astarion had chosen that path for himself.

“Gale is just fine, even without the Crown of Karsus”—again, it’s not that simple. What do we actually see in practice?”—Gale, who has regained his former life, the one he had before the sphere appeared in his chest. Gale’s character embodies both aspirations—ambition and a longing for a quiet, peaceful life cuddling with a cat; both of his endings are good, each in its own way. In essence, the “God-Gale” ending can’t really be called “evil”; he simply becomes a minor deity of magic, a neutral deity. Mystra was also mortal and didn’t become “evil” upon accepting divinity. Gale does have a bad ending—the one where Tav persuades him to sacrifice himself and blow himself up in the finale.

New note (!): Larian's authors like the ending in which Gale dies:

Quote:

“Gale: 'The Guy Who Starts Off Annoying Everyone

I really liked Gale setting off the bomb with the brain, and actually that felt like the right ending to me.

AS: In many ways it is, yeah.

If you wait that long, it's a cool ending.”

“Chrystal Ding, Lead Writer: On a very human level, you have the guy who starts off annoying everyone, he's constantly asking you to give him your most treasured possessions to eat, otherwise he's in trouble, and at the end, he gives himself for the world.”

As a player, I get the impression that the developers at Larian have some trouble understanding their audience and what players feel “on a very human level.” Personally, Gale didn’t annoy me at all at the beginning of my first playthrough, and when I found out about his problem, I simply set aside the least necessary artifacts for him, thinking that I’d have to feed him artifacts throughout the entire game (which would have been an interesting mechanic, in my opinion), and I planned what to feed him next, without any judgment or greed. Gale fans’ reaction to this statement from the developers was far more compassionate toward their beloved character than the reaction of some “UA fans” to the “emotionally satisfying” ending for the suffering Astarion (spoiler: Gale fans didn’t like that very much):

“However, the way the writers talk about their characters kills any desire I have left to continue any one of my playthroughs.” © Glitches about Gale.

Continued from the previous comment:

Whether intentionally or not, I’m sorry, but you often downplay and neglect the suffering of Astarion, who was dumped as the spawn—precisely what “we actually see in practice”—by comparing it to the “losses” of other companions. But please don’t take offense—this is simply my honest opinion. The worst part is comparing helping Astarion with his Ascension to “enabling a drug addict.” Let me explain: drugs destroy the human body and kill people. And in that case, of course, the addict’s desire is self-destructive, and we need to help them overcome it. But the ritual does not harm Astarion’s health—on the contrary, it removes the negative effects of vampirism and restores life to his body. In Astarion: Origins, you can hear the narrator say that “your heart has started beating again.” Astarion will once again be able to feel alive (“I feel alive, hahaha!”), live a full life, not feel hunger, see the sun, and see his reflection in the mirror. His health, on the contrary, will improve significantly.

But let’s get back to Gale—the rejection of ambition, as you correctly pointed out. If you look closely, the way the theme of “ambition” is portrayed in the game, with female and male tropes in terms of “good and evil,” seems rather strange. The female characters—Shadowheart and Lae’zel—have “evil” endings in which they accept someone else’s authority over them (for Lae’zel, her “evil” ending is also literally a bad one, as she dies). Both will “serve”: Shadowheart will surrender herself to Shar and become whatever Shar wants her to be, while Lae’zel faces certain death in this scenario—Vlaakith will devour her. The “good” paths are definitely better for them personally, with the difference being that becoming a Dark Justicar is an “evil” ending, whereas loyalty to Vlaakith is a “bad” ending. Karlach is suicidal; she can be talked out of it (she’ll choose life if someone agrees to go with her to Avernus) just as you can either agree to her wish to become an illithid or prevent her from doing so. She doesn’t have a “path” of her own; it’s more like an unfinished quest (in theory, a good outcome for her quest should have involved fixing the engine), which ended up being handled this way. For the male characters, their “evil” traits are their ambitions. Gale either becomes a god or gives up his ambitions and hands the Crown of Karsus over to his toxic ex. In Wyll’s story, people seem to have called the ending where he becomes a duke the “evil” ending. Astarion has the worst “good” ending in the game; essentially, it might be “good” for anyone but him personally. Ascended Astarion not only fulfills his ambitions but also gains a new life, the chance to feel alive and enjoy life. So does this mean a man reveals his “best qualities” only if he sets aside his ambitions and “bends”? Wyll, to be sure, doesn’t really have any particular ambitions of his own; if you don’t influence him and let him decide for himself, he’ll become either the Blade of Avernus or the Blade of Frontiers—he doesn’t choose to become a duke on his own without the player’s input.

Does ascending to godhood mean losing one’s “humanity”? Hmm, quite a few of Faerûn’s gods were once mortals. It’s kind of like how moving into a luxurious mansion after winning the lottery can be seen as losing an old, run-down studio apartment in a cheap neighborhood. In a friendly playthrough, Gale can choose to refuse the Crown himself; in my first playthrough, I didn’t even have any dialogue options to persuade Gale to take the Crown for himself. The Crown is in his hands, just as the spear is in Shadowheart’s.

Thanks for the information from Kevin VanOrd regarding Wyll. It seems that Swen Vincke should pay more attention to organizing work in case of unforeseen situations, such as authors falling ill. Otherwise—Stephen Rooney fell ill, and as a result, Welch messed up Ascended Astarion's romance; Kevin VanOrd fell ill—Wyll was neglected, and his fans complained about the lack of content in his romance (his romantic scenes were covered in about 30 minutes or less). Considering that Rooney begins to recommend the UA path precisely when the topic of romance comes up, mentioning that: “Just partly why I had to take medical leave, which is partly why other people ended up pitching in to write some stuff right at the end. The biggest thing I took away from Astarion was, ‘God, just make sure I never do that again.’” One might think that he isn’t very satisfied with how “other people ended up pitching in to write some stuff right at the end” and is recommending the romantic arc to which he personally devoted more time.

“Wyll breaks his contract with Mizora and saves his father. The price: Mizora no longer provides him with demonic power.” – A small clarification: it’s not “demonic power,” but “devilish power.” To obtain demonic powers, one must make a contract with the demons of the Abyss, not with the devils of the Nine Hells, and Wyll wouldn’t have been able to break free from the Abyss (chaotic evil, whereas devils are lawful evil and abide by the laws) so easily. Wyll is doing just fine in Avernus even without Mizora’s devilish powers; he has plenty of strength of his own, and he happily recounts his exploits there. In any case, Wyll fights monsters and boasts of his exploits, whether his father is alive or not. Wyll never chooses the Duke’s ending on his own unless he is influenced to do so. To get Wyll’s bad ending in the game, you must kill Mizora in the capsule.

“The narrative of BG3 is quite transparent and clearly present in the stories of most companions: either remain loyal to old imposed beliefs, ideology, gods, masters, or ambitions; or try to break free from their shackles, whether physical or psychological, or both. So why does everything suddenly «break» in Astarion’s case?”

It doesn’t break! Astarion breaks free from his physical and psychological shackles in his “evil” ending—after the Ascension (“Unmaking what you made me”). The narrative itself is more than transparent and clear; I won’t even mention the physical shackles so as not to repeat the same thing ten times—but even the word “freedom” (Astarion’s main theme) is used constantly in the script in the context of the Ascension or after it; along the UA’s path, freedom is mentioned in line: “Of course, now that I’m free from one threat, we’ll have to face the other: the tadpoles that let me walk in the light.” Freedom from only one threat is incomplete. I liked Neil’s comment about Astarion:

“I just love the fact that his incessant drive and desire to be utterly free are unshackled by other people’s opinions of it.”

UA continues to wear psychological shackles; he is bound by other people’s opinions of him. The Ascended are completely free of these shackles. And the quote about the ending of Astarion Origin:

“Astarion’s challenge wasn’t directly related to him being a vampire. It was that he was a spawn, and that he wasn’t free.”

In other words, Astarion has two problems: being a “spawn” and not being “free.” And in what scenario are BOTH problems resolved? Only AA – he is both free and has not ceased to be a spawn; he has become a living vampire and rid himself of all the problems associated with being a spawn. The sun is a symbol of freedom for Astarion; in the bitter finale, it nearly kills him—Astarion is sharply and painfully betrayed and rejected. At first, he doesn’t expect what’s about to happen; he’d been walking under the sun up until then, and deep down, he was most likely desperately hoping that everything would stay the same. And he burns with anguish and runs away while the others rejoice in their victory—including Tav—and, while they celebrate, Astarion sits somewhere behind the crates at the docks. It looks like a symbol of rejection, of how the “good world of good people” treats the “wrong” person. Astarion really needs a weapon against this world; he needs power—that much is obvious and clear.

The only thing that falls apart is the “presentation” of the finale, when the tragic ending is described as “good” in words. For whom is it “emotionally satisfying”? Where in the story and screenplay itself is there a contradiction to what I just wrote? In only one place:

Tav: “I know you think this will set you free, but it won't. This power will trap you, just like it trapped Cazador”.

In response to Astarion's question: “I'll be free - truly, completely free. Isn't that what you want?”

It doesn’t matter what Astarion wants, it doesn’t matter what HE thinks—what matters is what that bitch thinks. There’s no factual basis for that bitch’s opinion in the script. The real trap for Astarion is his closeness to this character, who’s putting new shackles on the victim of two centuries of slavery. And… For this piece of shit (I’m evaluating Tav as a character right now, not the player; you also called Astarion an asshole, and I think it’s fine for me to call the character what I consider them to be), the UA’s behavior will indeed be emotionally satisfying. Astarion will satisfy their desire to “teach” him, satisfy their pathetic egos. And this is a real tragedy, and the mechanics are indeed based on the psychology of trauma. Cazador humiliated, insulted, and tortured Astarion for 200 years, and the victim of abuse doesn’t know that he deserves better. A victim of abuse easily falls into new toxic relationships.

Rooney is a very talented author and professional; he experimented with a rather difficult subject. A “bittersweet” ending is harder to write than the classic happy ending—perhaps that’s why he wanted to focus more on this than Ascension—a classic victory story. So why is there no sense of “sweetness” in this ending (assuming you take Astarion seriously and fall in love with him)? I found my own answer in the ending of the game “Pragmata” - the game has a bittersweet ending where, playing as Hugh, infected with a deadly virus, you give the power cell from your spacesuit to Diana so she can return to Earth and see the ocean. The girl arrives on Earth and steps onto the ocean shore, gazing at the moon and promising that she’s “ready.” Hugh remains adrift in space. And it’s bittersweet—it brings a tear to your eye, but in a good way—completely different from the tears in that hated scene at the docks on the UA route, when all you want is for Tav and her friends to burn instead of Astarion. After Pragmata, I changed the opinion I’d formed based on my BG3 experience—that you can’t trust games and that you can’t just buy a game and play it with an open heart without checking spoilers to see if they’re trying to shove “bittershit” in there (My aversion to the term “bittersweet” developed long before Rooney’s interview, so this isn’t “disrespect toward the author”). But “bittersweet” isn’t always a bad thing.

Rooney seems to have focused on the character of Astarion, creating a truly unique and multifaceted character and realistically portraying all of his reactions—it turned out brilliantly, and it’s impossible not to fall in love with Astarion, but… He didn’t consider who he’s asking the player to identify with in this romance. Tav comes across as a rather despicable creature, alas. If we imagine the story of the Unascended Astarion as a movie (let’s take a passive medium that doesn’t require any audience participation in the story)—then in Astarion: Origin, this story will work when Astarion is the protagonist; it will come across as a powerful drama. If Tav were the protagonist and it were portrayed the way it is in the game, I’d bet that most viewers who really liked Astarion himself would hate this character—even those UA fans who wanted to play that way but fought to fix the scene in the docks, demanded healing for Astarion, and so on. Show them this story as a movie, and I bet they’d say: “What a rotten bitch!” In RPGs that assume a very high degree of player agency, there are examples of complex characters with well-developed versions of bad endings and failed quests for them, scenarios where the player can literally destroy their LI, and these are written in a powerful and realistic way—but there isn’t a single example where anything resembling Astarion’s tragedy on the UA path has successfully been presented as the main, emotionally satisfying outcome for all players. Maybe Rooney will still bring about a revolution in the future—who knows? He really is a talented writer.

“So, Astarion. The Spawn path is a rejection of Ascension, a rejection of the beliefs imposed on him by Cazador during 200+ years of slavery, and a liberation from his control, along with personal growth—as described by his writer, Rooney: «Because it has that sense of he's learned how to care about someone who's gone on this adventure with you». This implies that, on the opposite path, he does not gain this, or he loses it.” - How does this single quote lead directly to such conclusions? How can this imply that Astarion doesn’t receive or loses this on his Ascension path? I understand that the comment section under the post can be hard to read, but I’ve already given examples of how AA cares for his beloved, and this is in my main post, and @Flomens wrote about how AA empathizes with Tav because of Haarlep, deeply sympathizing with them and understanding how hard it is, based on his own past experience as a victim of abuse. I’d like to avoid copying and pasting the same thing ten times, so I’ll add something new, shall I:

"Ask me anything, and it will be yours."

A genuine willingness to show care through concrete actions. Just tell me what you need, and I’ll take care of it. Astarion also cares about his beloved’s emotional well-being; he often compliments them and accepts them just as they are. To Astarion, his partner will always be the very best, the most wonderful person:

“You were already perfect before. It's hard to improve.” “Just when I thought I couldn't love you any more.” “I'm so lucky I crash-landed next to such an intelligent creature as you.”

Is the desire to live a full life without constant hunger and a flamethrower hanging over his head, ready to burn him alive, really “beliefs imposed by Сazador”? It is UA who remains the victim of the very beliefs that Сazador tried to impose on him.

“I strove for perfection in all things—even those as imperfect as you.” Cazador’s words echo “don’t mess it up” and “a parasite hasn’t chewed through your brain”—these are possible lines for Tav in the graveyard scene, to which Astarion responds by agreeing with that attitude… You’re imperfect; you can “mess everything up”; “your brain probably isn’t capable of it.”  To tell him how bad he is, how imperfect, how he’s “behaving incorrectly”—and to do so in the most painful way possible. “I fondly remember your empty boasting, your tired jokes, your endless prattle…”—same as “the parasite hasn’t chewed through your brain.”

And Cazador’s: “Because he is incapable of anything else” echoes “This power will trap you, just like it trapped Cazador.” You’re incapable. Incapable of determining your own fate; you’re “driven by fear”; you can only “become a second Cazador”—replicating the behavior of your past abuser.  And that’s why: “I want you to live a life you’re proud of. You can’t be proud of this.” I want. I know what kind of life you should live. You’re incapable of anything—Cazador is right—you must follow me, submit to me, or you’ll become just like him. And Astarion accepts a new abuser. Although it’s clear in the game that Tav is the second Сazador. Yes, it’s quite a profound tragedy—when, after killing his former tormentor, Astarion finds himself in a relationship with a new overseer, and the very possibility of this relationship is rooted in the mechanisms of trauma.

In the scene at the graveyard after:

“I had to punch a hole in the coffin and claw my way through six feet of dirt. Then, when I finally broke the surface, retching up dirt and congealed blood, Cazador was waiting.”

The so-called “partner” might say something as vile as

“Then don’t mess it up”

to the survivor, right after he’s recounted one of his most painful and brutal memories. This devalues Astarion’s feelings and his very personhood. Humiliation and devaluation in relationships are forms of abusive behavior often characteristic of female abusers. Astarion endures this and then replies,

“I will endeavor to please.”

This acceptance of the attitude of such a toxic, demeaning partner—this desire to please a new abuser—is, for a survivor of the trauma of two hundred years of slavery, truly painful to witness; it is a clear regression in the healing process. This is not the words of a free person; it is the concession of a slave. Before the ritual, when Tav violates Astarion’s boundaries—forcing him to drink the blood of a vile drow, forcing him to have sex—he breaks up with them the very next day. But, having lost his freedom, UA reverts to a slave’s mindset—the insult is not perceived as an offense. Instead, he promises to be a better servant, or more precisely, to follow orders more precisely.

AA demonstrates genuine personal growth—if Tav insults AA (compares him to Сazador, causes him physical harm—a kick), he reacts with hurt and anger and cuts off the relationship. He stands up for himself, he demands respect, and if he is disrespected, he ends the relationship. And in the non-romantic epilogue, in response to Tav’s line, “You’re just like Сazador,” Astarion says,

“Try to wound me all you like, but I’m so much better than he ever was.”

In other words, even to a triggering insult—and a comparison to a tormentor is definitely a trigger for a survivor—Astarion reacts calmly and doesn’t let any scumbag hurt him—there isn’t even any anger. A perfect example of personal growth—the basic stage involves asserting oneself through a natural reaction of anger (anger is a reaction to injustice; a person without anger cannot defend their own boundaries—it’s an important emotion), while the highest stage is the strength of character that cannot be hurt. But Unascended can be humiliated even by a bitch-ex at the party in the epilogue:

Tav: “You seem... happy. Are you sure you haven't been drinking blood?"

Astarion: “No, this is all me, I swear.”

Tav: “I'm glad to hear it. Acceptance look good on you.” - Astarion doesn't show any anger in response to this; he can't even take a jab at this prick with a bit of sarcasm.

Astarion has seen too much shit in his life (“After two hundred years of shit, pure shit, I think I deserve something better.”) But in the tragic, bitter ending, there’s a scenario where his “beloved” turns out to be yet another piece of shit, and we get to see what happens in that case—no personal growth; he puts on a mask in front of this piece of shit and… behaves in a way that seems emotionally satisfying to them. Rooney portrayed this very well. If you play the game in test mode, checking all of Astarion’s reactions on both paths—including the vile lines from Tav—the Ascended’s honest and healthy anger feels like a breath of fresh air.

“The price is a return to vampiric limitations after the fall of the Absolute. But, as the game itself suggests, this is something that can be dealt with  together in the future.” - I’ll repeat that Rooney rejected that option, preferring a tragedy:

“That might have been too optimistic for me. I do like how his story ended up, but we took a couple of swings at happier endings as well. I love a bittersweet ending, so.”

Perhaps Larian later half-heartedly “threw the dissatisfied players a bone” with just a single line about “searching for a cure” (what “cure,” and will they even manage to find it?) for the sake of a more satisfying copium and personal headcanons. But either we look at what the author intended—and the author didn’t want an optimistic outcome—or we look at the script and dialogue. And there, things are definitely not that simple and bear no resemblance to a school essay in the style of “good vs. evil, power, ambition is bad, blah-blah-blah”—something like what schoolchildren sometimes copy from ready-made essays so the teacher will give them a grade and leave them alone—no, in Astarion’s script and dialogue, things are far from as simple as you periodically try to claim, I’m sorry.

“Add to this the implied plans — such as a desire to plunge the world into shadows (isn’t there a contradiction here with his desire to bask in the sun?) and the fact that he is perfectly willing to strip even his beloved of what he himself has gained.” – The real fact is that he does not strip his beloved of anything; on the contrary, he shares with them the gift of eternity and grants them immortality and strength. He SHARES his powers and immortality with Tav:

“I’m willing to share all of this with you. What’s that if not love?”

Astarion shows his love through his actions.

“I'm imbibed with unfathomable new talents. I am fairly certain I can extend Mephistopheles' blessings unto you. You need not fear anything. You will be stronger, swifter, sharper, but you won't be different. You were already perfect before. It's hard to improve.”

Tav also becomes a living vampire, just like Astarion, without losing any of the pleasures available to mortals, and does NOT receive the vampire’s curse. “Immortality is your gift, but darkness is your prison and hunger its gaoler". The essence of the vampire’s curse is darkness and eternal hunger—becoming an undead creature. Immortality is a gift. Ascension frees the vampire from all effects of the curse, leaving only the gift. Astarion shares this gift with his Bride. Tav doesn’t burn in the sun, doesn’t feel hunger, can see their reflection in a mirror, eats, and drinks alcohol. Tav will now be “beautiful forever” and, if they wish, can bite someone. And derive pleasure from it, as well as the “happy” buff. You can refuse vampirism if you don’t take a long rest after Ascension but instead head straight into the final battle. Then Astarion will calmly accept your refusal, and you’ll preserve your romantic relationship.

“Here is what Astarion himself says if he rejects the ritual: «I could feel something slipping away. I came so close to losing myself, losing everything I've learned since meeting you". - That doesn’t sound very good, as if Astarion is playing along with the “schoolmarm”—as if he were supposed to “learn” something from this “wisest leader.” And the wording is inaccurate—Astarion doesn’t reject the ritual himself; Tav rejects his request for help and convinces him to accept it. Astarion is perfectly capable of saying exactly what people want to hear from him, but I won’t try to downplay the line, since there’s been this constant nonsense about the Ascended—that Astarion supposedly “manipulates and lies” (even though he has absolutely no motive to lie now that he’s gotten everything he wanted). Okay, and this curiously echoes the “schoolmarm” tone in AA’s dialogue.

Тav: You can tell me that you've learned something from all this. (One of four lousy lines in a scene consisting entirely of bad lines for the player, but I had to choose this nonsense just to avoid the awful “I want your body,” and the demand to turn Tav into a vampire also sounds like I helped him just for that, and “schoolmarm” is the only chance to not ask for any “reward” and keep the relationship intact).

Astarion: Truly? And what was I supposed to learn from this? – That sounds better; here, Astarion no longer accepts the idea that someone can “teach” him. After that, the conversation can get to normal tracks.

All right, fine, but UA has some lines along the way that are much more important to me:

A scene after the ritual (in response to Tav’s line, “I’m proud of you…”).

Astarion: “I’m glad you think so, because I’m not so sure. I just feel numb.”

“I should probably start getting used to the shadows again. Who knows how long I have left in the sun?”

That’s what we see in practice. In practice.

 Тav: “You did the right thing, stopping the Black Mass”.

“I know. That doesn’t mean it stings any less”.

Tav: “And if it is? Can you live with what?” -

“I’ll have to. But that doesn’t mean I have to like it”.

Тav: “I wasn’t sure if you’d stop the ritual or not, honestly”.

Astarion:

“I am - well, not 'happy' with how things turned out. But this does feel right.”

At first, he is sincere, but then he puts on a mask, and this «good» creature must derive moral satisfaction from it.

“I'm still nothing, aren't I? Just an expandable frail spawn who will burn to a crisp soon enough.”

That’s just heartbreaking. Ascended Astarion would never say or think that about himself.

“Thus, your claim «By helping Astarion Ascend, I am not depriving him of anything—absolutely nothing» — is fundamentally incorrect. Unless, of course, you consider the loss or distortion of one’s identity to be insignificant. But I doubt that would be the case for Astarion.”

Loss of one’s identity? Or “distortion”? Excuse me, but how does this actually work, from a realistic standpoint? You’re walking along—and bam! Your identity falls out of your pocket—that’s it, you’ve lost it? People don’t “lose their identity”; identity isn’t a static object that can be lost. Identity is a continuous process of change, adaptation, and reinterpretation; every night, neurons in our synaptic network rewrite and recalibrate information, and our identities shift slightly based on our experiences.  What is called “loss of identity” is simply a change that the person using this metaphor either disagrees with or fears. “Distortion of identity” is a value judgment, not an objective reality; what one person calls “distortion,” another will call “growth.” It’s a matter of perspective. “Personality distortion” is a way of saying, “You’ve stopped being convenient for me.” As long as you met someone’s expectations, you were “real.” As soon as you stopped being who the speaker wants you to be, you’ve “distorted” yourself. The real distortion is when you let others determine who you “should” be. AA doesn’t allow that; its personality is perfectly fine. More often than not, accusations of “losing yourself” come from people who would like to see you as you used to be (convenient for them) and don’t accept your changes—that’s how it really is. You cannot “lose” yourself—you can simply stop being who others wanted you to be. This is not a loss; it is liberation. And this also relates to the theme of true freedom, “truly, completely free,” for Ascended Astarion.

Moreover, Astarion’s personality is in no way “distorted”; after the Ascension (“Unmaking what you made me.”), Astarion literally regains his noble status immediately—he naturally begins to behave like a nobleman, just as he may have behaved in the past, before he was enslaved. Now he always maintains an aristocratic bearing with ease. His gestures, lines, and every movement look incredibly natural. Even Astarion’s body language reflects how he feels. Astarion is a hedonist who revels in luxury and all of life’s pleasures. Astarion regains his true self and everything that was taken from him. And so—Astarion remains Astarion; he doesn’t undergo any “personality distortions”—he becomes more open, expresses himself vividly, and laughs contagiously—he’s simply a pleasure to watch.

Astarion remains himself in any case, whether he’s Ascended or not; the question is how he feels in one scenario or the other. “Growing as a person is not the same as ‘fixing’ someone.”—Yes, because true personal growth is what happens within a person—it’s something a person chooses for themselves. And when someone tries to “arrange personal growth” for another person—that’s either using them/fixing them, or it’s a scam (like all those coaches, gurus, etc.).

“However, idealizing one route while ignoring its obvious downsides is… strange.” - I’m not ignoring the obvious downsides of the writing on Ascension path—I see them perfectly well—but it’s impossible to cover everything at once in a comment, alas; there are a lot of flaws. Problems with roleplay, a scene consisting of four bad lines where immersion is completely shattered and it’s impossible to simply choose a line to respond with, rails, a check that forces the player to agree to “degradation,” the player’s role as a submissive according to the script with no choice (there are no lines at all; Astarion says: “Ask me anything, and it will be yours”—and you can’t say, “My sunshine, let’s avoid slapping me after the kiss, mmm?”), Tav periodically pulls nasty faces (I’m not even talking about Patch 6, but just in cutscenes where there’s absolutely no point in pulling such faces), there are tons of lines for fights and insults, but at the same time, it’s impossible to simply tell your loved one: “I love you,” hug him and kiss him tenderly without mods (though they didn’t forget to include the option to fuck everything that moves—Halsin, Mizora, go to a brothel, etc.). I was talking about Astarion’s well-being, and I try to appreciate the good moments, of which there are still quite a few. Hmm, it’s easy to see why Rooney recommends normies choose UA romance… But I can respect the author without idealizing him or his writing as well. If he wanted to create something “bittersweet” and emotionally satisfying at the same time—that kind of “emotional satisfaction” is clearly not for everyone. But he wrote an excellent epilogue for Ascended. I think that without Welch’s interference in the AA romance, Rooney’s “glass” experiment would have gone better—his preferred path would have been chosen by those who want that kind of experience, and a bunch of mobs wouldn’t have tried to intimidate and force those who don’t “eat glass” into it—and then there would have been far less criticism of his UA path.

“It is much deeper than that. In creating Astarion’s arc, he relied on principles of dramaturgy, trauma psychology, and the internal logic of character development («need vs. want» and so on). So yes, we can interpret what happens in the game however we like — but does that change the author’s intent? No. He chooses the ending based on his professional design and understanding of the character, not on «I want tragedy, I want angst». – Of course, it goes much deeper. And it’s both much deeper and more interesting when you really dig into the plot—there’s a lot to discover. The psychology of trauma—yes, it’s well portrayed how a traumatized person can easily become the victim of a new abuser, and how someone who wants power over him and wants to “teach” him to be convenient for them can sink their claws into his heart. “Need vs. want”—Rooney didn’t say that. But the game’s plot does feature Astarion’s “need” versus that bitch Tav’s “want.”

“I prefer genuine emotional satisfaction rather than reveling in the suffering of a beloved character». Here, for example, you are quite selectively framing the wording. In Rooney’s interview, there was nothing about «reveling in the suffering» of a character” - In that sentence, I expressed my own personal perception of how I think it looks and what I personally prefer. I didn’t say that Rooney was literally talking about “reveling in the suffering.” Rooney was talking about having fun and how he enjoyed writing situations in which the player can treat Astarion terribly:

“I generally think of the points in the game where you do something absolutely terrible to Astarion, and that’s where I’m having the most fun.”

He finds it interesting to write the character’s reactions in brutal situations, and as Astarion suffers on the UA path, Rooney did an excellent job of showing how Astarion’s true feelings about what’s happening come through in many of his lines, even though he often says things that ‘good’ Tav wants to hear. Neil played this perfectly. Rooney also spoke about his love for tragedies (“There’s a tragedy that I really love”).

I don’t think my assessment of UA’s bitter path is in any way disrespectful to Rooney’s work. A player can evaluate the quality of the writing and how well the author’s words align with what he actually wrote in the script; there’s nothing wrong or disrespectful about that. Rooney also said that it matters to him that his character evokes an emotional response, that people feel something and don’t remain indifferent (the ability to evoke strong emotions—any kind—is a sign of a writer’s skill):

“So even if I wasn't trying to deliver a specific message, I guess knowing that it did land with people, that it did connect and also just wanted to tell an interesting emotional story that would get people to feel things. That's all you ever really want. But you're kind of sitting down to write a character. I didn't particularly care if people love Astarion or if they hated him as long as I got a reaction, as long as people didn't feel neutral about him. And I've met plenty of people who did not like him as well, which is also great for me. So no, I mean, the most important thing is just that he is meaningful to people.”

If Rooney doesn’t even consider his character’s haters to be disrespectful, would he really consider those who love Astarion but dislike his tragic ending to be disrespectful? Okay, I love Astarion and hate Tav on the UA path—when I had to test that route, that was also an emotional reaction, which Rooney managed to evoke. To the point that I used to always prefer to play seriously and never liked things like stuffing my companions’ corpses into crates and dumping them somewhere (I was surprised when I read in an update that Larian had paid attention to things like fixing a bug that prevented players from doing such nonsense), but here, for the first time, I appreciated the benefits of such gameplay options—putting clown makeup on Tav, feeding her rotten food, and tossing her around like a stress ball, just to relieve some of the stress from this test playthrough—which was also an unusual emotional reaction for me. This story didn’t leave me indifferent, just as the author intended. And I love Astarion himself equally on both paths; I just play with immersion and “play as myself,” identifying with the main character, only in the Ascension scenario.

And essentially, here’s my criticism of the “bittersweet” romance that Rooney prefers (Rooney suggested this choice specifically in the discussion about Astarion’s romance)—the PC comes across as a total bastard. But the writing of Astarion’s character itself is very strong, excellent. If Tav had sacrificed something and suffered as well, the story would have played out better; or, if Astarion had been the game’s protagonist—then the “bittersweet” approach would likely have worked. There are games where the protagonist suffers deeply, and there are games with well-executed “bittersweet” endings, like Pragmata. If Rooney’s next project doesn’t focus on romantic relationships but focuses on something else, I might buy it and see what other interesting character he comes up with.

P.S. Regarding the “research.” As soon as I went online after posting about Rooney’s interview, I received this almost immediately:

The names of real people have been redacted. Here we see an example of a bully of the lowest intellectual caliber imaginable—rambling insults coupled with the most illiterate Russian possible. Phew, this isn’t exactly easy to translate into English, given the slang, but I’ll try to convey the “spirit” of the original by using techniques to mimic illiteracy in English—such as omitting grammatical connectors, using incorrect agreement, and employing incorrect grammar in places where this is particularly noticeable in the Russian original:

“ooоо fuck, here in the comments all this cancer tumor of the fandom gathered, how cute bitch. Of course your shitty sect need be study in psychiatry, how tiktok, chat and bots rot brain completely. listen you, dumb fucking asshole. tell your girlies to like your psycho brainfarts even more actively, so i can ban all you fucks, so in my cozy little feed there will be no your fucked up cult shit and all these dickriders. By the way, : [whited out] fucked. pass it on right now bitch. By the way, its funny to watch how you throw yourself at everyone, even tho its you who getting fucked by others lol”

Also, the phrase “в психиатрии изучать”—used in reference to those who don’t like Astarion’s tragic ending—can be translated from illiterate Russian into English as “psychiatric research.” Should AA fans on Tumblr expect “psychiatric research” from the bullers and non-con gooners?

And №2:

A translation that attempts (as much as possible) to convey the slang and grammatical errors of the original:

“looooooooool, damn you just got fucking destroyed, ahahahah. Why would I hit screen, and even with hammer? I not sick schizo like you and your little dick-riding simps who have non-stop pain in fifth point and four-times fucking hate for most of the fandom just because you get owned on Twitter and everywhere else possible for being brain-dead idiots. By the way, I didn't ask you to dump your traumas. But finally — without an AI translation — it's crystal clear that you're just another snowflake who faints at a different opinion, a underage dumb cunt, and that most of your bio-garbage cattle-squad from chat are the same. People like you would justify serial killers and maniacs if they were hot and gave you puppy eyes — exactly like how you justify AA. That's why you project your syndrome of needy co-dependent victim of narcissist onto the entire fandom and annoy everybody with your brainless infantile whining caused by your complexes from that shitty ending. In short, go on jerk off to your husband lord-spawn-fucker in chatbots with the rest of that concubine scum, and go play dollhouse with SIMS with [whited out]  and the gang. You're not an Astarion fan, and you're definitely not an AA fan. Just try not to drink yourself to death, you fucking cattle.”

The subject demonstrated a critically low level of intelligence (a literal interpretation of a well-known joke along the lines of “then take a hammer and smash my avatar on your device”). Not only is there a lack of understanding of basic human emotions (empathy toward Astarion is perceived as weakness, and a person showing it as a suitable target for bullying), but also of concepts such as sarcasm, context, and subtext. A joke from an opponent is interpreted as if the opponent were terribly offended and hurt, and the bully has “won.” “You’re definitely not an AA fan” in their circle means “you’re not a r4pe-gooner.” Unfortunately, it was precisely these kinds of people who went to the Larian forum demanding that the SA/DA scenes be brought back into the game. Something like this:

And on the forum (and this isn't her only post):

By the way, there is a scientific study that shows that people with pronounced traits of the Dark Triad (narcissism, psychopathy) will experience a “sweet” sensation when watching a character suffer.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886916309461#:~:text=The%20Dark%20Triad%20has%20been,%2C%20happy%2C%20and%20fearful%20stimuli

This, of course, doesn’t mean that tragedy can’t be enjoyed in fiction—of course, you can be captivated by any kind of story—but the fierce defense of the “correctness” of a bitter ending, in my view, does say something.

“In the current research, we were interested in the Dark Triad with respect to appropriateness of emotional response to sad, fearful, or happy stimulus. Previous studies have found that especially Machiavellianism and psychopathy have an association with schadenfreude, feeling happy about other's misfortune (Porter, Bhanwer, Woodworth, & Black, 2014). Further, narcissism relates to feeling positive when viewing sad faces, and psychopathy to feeling positive when viewing fearful faces (Wai & Tiliopoulos, 2012).”

BG3 is a game with great visuals and strong acting; the characters’ faces look lifelike, and someone with high affective empathy truly won’t be able to derive “emotional satisfaction” from the UA path. Narcissists, however, according to this study, will find pleasure in it:

Affective empathy is empathy at the emotional level—the ability to physically and emotionally sense the feelings of a loved one, to be “contagiously” affected by their state, and to experience their pain as if it were one’s own. It is based on the activity of mirror neurons, which activate the same brain regions (the insula and the anterior cingulate cortex) as when one experiences pain oneself.

“If you can’t handle the pain of another person—someone you love—that raises some serious questions.” (с) tamraspizz 

Cognitive neuroscience, neurobiology, and neurophysiology—which directly study the biological foundations of how nerve cells (neurons) function, which brain structures are involved, and which chemical processes underlie empathy—can answer this question. It is within the framework of these disciplines that mirror neurons were discovered and are being studied. The presence of affective empathy has never been considered—and is not considered—a mental disorder. However, its complete absence:

“One of the suggestions is that individuals high in the Dark Triad may understand the feelings that other individuals have (i.e., have cognitive empathy), but they don't show an appropriate emotional response to emotion-evoking stimulus (i.e., lack affective empathy; e.g., Wai & Tiliopoulos, 2012).”

I like how you said he “is likely trying to convince himself that he feels more empowered and in-control than he actually does, because he needs that feeling.”

There’s definitely something in his mind that still thinks as a slave, something which believes that he must have sex to be safe. Because it was the case for as long as he can remember.

Seducing people, sleeping with them without thinking about his own needs, that's part of his habitus. His body has been a tool for so long that he still sees it as such.

It’s ingrained in his mind, and even if he’s regaining his agency, some of the seeds planted by Cazador persist in his mind (and will until the Act 2 confession). Astarion says it himself, it's instinctive. And as you put it, it's somehow comfortable, it's charted territories.

A part of him tells him his only value relies on his sexual skills. Therefore he associates sex to a “safety net”. But he probably hasn’t acknowledged that yet in act 1; he prefers to lie to himself and to pretend he’s sleeping with the PC because he has become the puppet master. It's easier to think that way. But in fact, it was just a automatism, his survival instinct. So even if he’s really attracted to the PC, Astarion is still driven by fear and by a need to control how the PC feels about him (precisely because he's so afraid to lose control over the situation). And sex is the perfect tool for that. His body is the perfect tool.

[I can recall a few numbers of times when I had sex with people while lying to myself and pretending I 100% wanted it, pretending I was the one in control, when in fact, I had sex with those persons for reasons that had nothing to do with my own desire. It doesn't mean I didn't find them attractive, it doesn't mean I regret having sex with them, but it still means that my motivations weren’t what I thought they were, that my decision to have sex was still controlled by something else in my mind, something different from my actual desire. I acknowledged it months and sometimes years later.]

When Astarion welcomes the PC in the clearing, he’s performing. When I say he’s performing, I mean in the way he presents himself as as a person craving for sex, and he expresses his desire as such. He puts on the mask of the “mysterious sexy vampire”, keeping his voice low and his smirk sharp. He plays his part, the one he's played for years. He pretends to be the lover he thinks the PC wants him to be, the overly seductive vampire with his exaggerated declarations.

I think there are several ways to explain why he feels the need to perform:

It has always worked with his target up to now

That's the only way he knows

The exaggeration is also a shield behind which he can hide his vulnerabilities

Let me explain that last point : Saying a simple “I’m attracted to you, I want to be with you tonight”, without all the grandiloquence, is not something he would do at this point (even if that's how he feels), because that would make him look vulnerable. That would mean being honest with himself and with you, letting you see his raw desire, so to speak. It would feel too real (I purposely insist on that word and you all know why), and it's easier to exaggerate the whole thing and to pretend to be the hedonistic and over-the-top vampire. After all, he’s confident, he’s been doing that for years. He knows it works. He knows he’s hard to resist.

But when you think about it, he's obviously lying, saying he wanted this to happen since his first meeting with the PC... Come on, the first time they met he was ready to kill them.

It's a lovely lie, just like the "I love you" during his second proposition for sex (I talked about it here), but when you look into it, it's far grimmer.

Once more, there's a parallel between sex and death: "to have you"= Killing you. I already talked about that connection here, so I'll just quote myself: "It's possible to see Astarion's offer to kill you as a foreshadowing of him offering you to have sex with you. And considering what sex means to him at this point of his life - a tool to manipulate, which can lead to his partners to death - the parallel between the two in early act 1 makes a lot of sense to me."

But oh! µTav/Durge survived that first night with him! The PC is still here in the morning! That's new! It never happened to him before, waking up next to his partner. He needs to control this unusual and terrifying experience! Quick!

So I tend to think that the little remark about the PC being loud all night falls along those lines. He displays his (exaggerated) hedonistic and over-confident part of his persona, as a way to reassert that he’s the one in control. As if saying, reminding them: "I made you (the leader of the group) scream all night because I decided to, and everybody knows about it. I’m the one calling the shots.” 

But I think it's also as way to hide how he really feels about that night. So instead of opening up and saying how he feels about it, he teases the PC about their own enjoyment. Another defence mechanism.

And yet, the mask cracks a little bit when he asks if the PC wants to lose themselves in him; he suddenly looks terribly sad…

he asks for a consent he was never able to give before that

That’s probably a line he’s said thousands of times before and those who agreed did get lost… in death

It brings him back to the feeling of being a toy for others to enjoy, for people to use so they can "lose themselves"

The look on his face here is what he's trying to hide during this scene. He's wearing that mask (which will come back later if you ascend him), because he needs to protect himself. I'm not even sure if he acknowledges it at this point. It's an automatism.

But I believe that, as the night unfolds, he finds himself enjoying it.

Maybe it's just me, but I tend to feel like he’s getting more like his playful and silly self when you let him bite you. Whereas if you trust him to not bite, he keeps on performing, in control, like he was told to do by Cazador. 

If you let him bite you, you roll on the ground and he looks pleasantly surprised. And I think he starts to have fun here.

(Shadowheart, please)

And I think he can enjoy it even if he dissociates. As I said, the switch is automatic when the brain finds itself in a situation that represents some kind of danger or discomfort. For two hundred years, Astarion experienced sex in a way that was all but comfortable, sex he didn’t really want. It makes sense that his brain automatically switches off. Even though he’s having a good time here, intimacy itself is a trigger, no matter how much he's enjoying it. It’s instinctive, just like flirting is instinctive to him, paradoxically.

And I find the way he explains it quite interesting: he pretends it’s because of his bloodlust, because he didn't want to get carried away.

You see in his eyes that he’s lying. And I kinda like it because it’s sooo relatable. Finding excuses to justify dissociation or plain detachment during sex? yeah, that something I did, with answers along those lines: “I didn’t want to hurt you/I didn’t want to be too intense/I didn’t want to be too loud/I didn't want to scare you/I'm a little tired/etc."

And I still think he enjoys it even if he’s not 100% into it. He keeps his distance (mentally, emotionally) and it’s normal because he’s careful, because he doesn’t really know how to let go. And (healthy, happy) sex is about letting go completely, it‘s about trusting someone and allowing yourself to be completely free from your mental and physical restrains and automatisms.

It’s easy to understand why he can’t fully let go: he’s afraid, because he’s not 100% sure he can enjoy this, because he doesn't know how the PC will behave, and because he must be in control to feel safe.

His body knows how it works, so he lets his body act automatically,  that body which have danced the same dance thousands of time. He doesn’t have to think and it’s easier not to think. Easier and apparently safer than following his true desires. Here again, it's an automatism: his body knows, he can switch his mind off, protecting it from potential bad memories, protecting him from his own desire and feelings, protecting him from the temptation of being himself.

He can’t let go, he has to be in control. if only to make sure he will offer his partner the best performance. Even if he's enjoying the moment because the PC is respectful, playful, gentle or whatever you imagine for this first night, he can't let go.

As you said, he’s convinced the PC is only here for his looks – But think about it: Astarion himself never offered anything other than sex, he didn’t pretend he was in love with the PC. He only offered his body. By doing so, he's also protecting himself from potential feelings (theirs or his) of attachment and affection.

It's like saying “Don’t get attached to me. It’s just SEX”. He pulls up his own walls to keep the PC outside. It's another contradiction: he suffers from being seen as a beautiful and shallow individual who’s only good for sex, but he says upfront that he won’t give more than sex. He keeps the PC away (emotionally) while suffering from it. That’s another defence mechanism, combined with the fact that he probably still sees himself as a "mean to an end" (unconsciously), unable to see that he can be someone else than the "hedonistic and heartless vampire."

Besides, it's probable that he doesn’t believe it’s even possible for anyone to care about him. So he anticipates a potential emotional disappointment by saying that it’s only sex, convincing himself as much as to convince the PC that there’s nothing more to expect from it.

Positive/negative experience

You asked how much of this experience feels positive to him vs negative. Let's recap.

Positive feelings:

Excitement (first time having sex on his own terms + he’s attracted to the PC)

Physical pleasure (sex + blood if the PC lets him bite them)

Fun

A sense of freedom

Relief and a sense of pride (they fell into his trap)

A newfound affection (they trust him, they respect him)

Good surprise (he can still have fun while having sex!)

The PC being who they are (more about this later)

Negative feelings:

A sense of obligation

Fear

PTSD

The need to perform and make sure they enjoy it

Habits that make him serve instead of just enjoy the moment

Guilt

Shame

Confusion

Disgust

Feeling of being used (even if the PC isn't exactly "using him"; they accept his offer and they're not to be blamed for it)

One could think that the negative feelings are more important, and true, those bad feelings can be destructive. But I don’t think the unbalance is so evident, maybe because the positive feelings are all completely new to him, therefore they may be particularly powerful.

But in fact, they're all entangled and messy, and I believe Astarion himself can’t really make sense of them.

And later, he sums it up all on his own.

What we know, is that a few days later, he remembers that night as a good experience. And exceptionally good experience.

And tbh I think that’s what matters: What he makes of this night, how he digests and, remembers it, and how he looks back at it. It was special. Special enough for him to admit it.

He admits it feels different with you, it feels good with you -- but he can't yet get rid of the negative feelings sneaking in the back of his mind, ruining what should be a lovely moment.

As for the main feeling at the forefront of his mind… I don’t think it would be one feeling, but more a motivation: “I must stay in control” (whether he succeeded is up to discussion). In the end, I think he manages to suppress his main fears, to keep a certain distance, while at the same time finding himself surprised to be enjoying it.

Questionable motivations and enjoyment

As a SA survivor myself and a former sex-worker, there are so many things that fall close to home both in terms of ptsd, of performance and habitus. I perfectly see how desire, obligations, attraction and disgust can mingle until they become difficult to set apart. {Mind you, I’m not saying that sex-work and sex-abuse are one and the same, far from it. One can be a sex-worker and have never been abused].

In the case of Astarion, he’s first and foremost a survivor, and even if he compares himself to a prostitute a few times, he had no choice in doing it. Therefore, it's not sex-work, it’s human trafficking.

Yet, it's still transactional, and just like a sex-worker, he had to perform, to let the partner(/client) believe that he wanted them, that he wanted it, that he was enjoying it, even when it wasn’t the case. Remember how he made Sebastian believe he was head over heels for him.

During the first night with the PC, Astarion decides to have sex without anyone forcing him to do it. But he doesn’t do it out of sheer lust and attraction. He does it because he wants to keep himself safe and he thinks that’s the only way. Which is, imo, closer to what a sex-worker would do: having sex for money because they need that money to pay the rent or whatever they need to survive. No one is forcing them, except the material conditions and (in Astarion’s case at least) cognitive bias (the belief that he’s “only good at that”) + long terms habits.

And just like a SW, he has to make them believe that he's totally into it (believe me, client don't enjoy it as much if the SW doesn't pretend to be attracted to them).

Look at him, he’s performing. He's said those lines multiples times before. Even the movement of his hand: it’s theatrical. It’s planned and calculated.

This too is instinctive. He's done that for years and he is good at it.

Look at the shift, look how easy it is for him to put on a smiling face to "open a lot of doors" (and legs).

And after pretending to be attracted to those persons, he had to pretend sleeping with them didn't affect him. That too falls close to home.

That line in particular. SO FUCKING RELATABLE IT HURTS.

In my experience, there had been bad experiences. But you go on, because you need to. And to protect your own sanity, you stick to the idea that it's fine, that you can do that again. That it doesn't matter.

But it does matter.

And yet....

In the case of SW (which should always be consensual), being with a client can be a nice experience. Some clients are attractive, some clients are very sweet and respectful, some clients are very good fucks, some clients are all of this (and some clients are bastards but we’re not talking about them here). In any case, they are still clients. As a SW, I didn’t see them as potential ‘real’ lovers, and I wouldn’t have considered sleeping with them in any other situation. It doesn’t mean the experience was bad. I had genuine O with some clients and really enjoyed the company of some of them.

It seems contradictory, but it's real.

Back to Astarion: at the beginning of the meeting it ultimately starts with a performance, like the SW pretending they really want it (whereas they're only do it for money), but it might turn into a really good moment for everyone involved.

And IMO, that's more or less what's happening here with Astarion.

It's a tricky thing to explain because I really don’t want to look like I’m promoting forcing anyone to do anything. Sex should ALWAYS happen in a situation in which all the persons involved are 100% sure they want to do it, and 100% sure their partner(s) want to do it.

But there are exceptional situations (such as sex-work or what Astarion’s going through here, and I can think of other cases), where sex remains enjoyable even if the original motivations weren’t that clear. It’s not fully incompatible. Clearly, that’s NOT a healthy way to deal with your sexuality!!! But it can happen. And the main point here is that it still relies on consent. The person fully consents to do it, but they do it for “questionable” reasons (whether they acknowledge it or not), and they enjoy it in spite of having questionable reasons to do it. It can happen.

I think that’s what happens to Astarion at this point.

(That being said, I repeat it: ALWAYS make sure your partner is fully into it, and NEVER force yourself to have sex if you’re not 100% sure you want it!)

From a transaction to something else

It’s interesting to notice that if the PC refuses to have sex with him in the clearing, he doesn’t really seem to care.

He’s probably disappointed because his plan failed, but his reaction is very different from the reaction you get if the PC rejects him after the first night (my post on this matter here) when he seems really sad to be rejected. It means, I think, that this first night was REALLY meaningful – his heartfelt reaction to your rejection to spend another night together makes it clear. That first night was special since his reaction to your refusal is so very different.

In any case, if the PC refuses during that first night, he says he thought you had an “understanding", and it somehow evokes me something like a transaction (as you rightly mentioned in your message).

And it's not the first time he compares sex with the PC to a transaction. The first time he offers them to sleep with him, he presents it as a reward for letting him bite the PC. It's transactional: You let me feed, I give you sex.

He thinks that’s what sex is about. He has never known anything else, or maybe he did a long time ago but can’t remember.

I wrote that long post about how feeding him can be quite problematic given how he might see it as a transaction (here and here): Offering the the vampire bite kink in order to be fed and survive. It’s the same here.

He knows the PC enjoyed being bitten, he’s convinced they're attracted to him, and by being the one who gives "a reward", he presents himself in a position of control. I “allow” you to have sex with me, since you want it so much: I’m the one making that decision, having more power over you.

After all, in his mind at this point, sex is a question of power. (And if he ascends he undeniably falls back into that pattern; treating sex as a reward, as something to use to better control the PC)

You put it rightly in your message, there's also some sort of familiarity with that transactional system that is deeply comforting.

I won't lie, back in the days, it was sometimes difficult for me to be with someone who wasn't a client, because my partners then didn't expect anything from me. Whereas clients always expect something specific, if only in the SW's behaviour, or/and concerning the acts themselves. And it was comforting. I knew what I had to do to please them. But as I said, it didn't always keep me from having a good time with some clients. It's not incompatible. That's why I think Astarion can still enjoy it even though he's performing, and can get attached to the PC even if it started as something more or less transactional.

And that's precisely why it must have been so destabilizing for him!

After all, when that first night together happens, he appreciates the PC (you need enough approval to sleep with him). As you pointed out, they've already spent several days/weeks together, shared a lot things... That's new to him, sleeping with someone he knows and appreciates.

As a SW, I had defined through the years a clear line between people I met for the job, and people I met outside of it. There was no confusion between the two, even for the long-terms clients – even for the clients I cared about. I liked them, but we weren’t friends, we weren’t partners, we weren’t lovers. And we would never be.

I would say that in the case of Astarion, that separation exists, but it’s not as well defined because, despite his experience, all his partners were destined to end up dead (for all he knew) and he barely knew them anyway. He didn’t have to clearly define that separation because there was no opportunity, no room for him to get attached to them. He saw a target, seduced them, slept with them and they disappeared forever.

It was “easy”, he didn’t have to question the nature of his relationship with them. Whereas after that first night with the PC, they’re still there, alive, and they’re still being this great leader who cares about him and his needs, who values him as a person, someone whose company feels good. His habitus is all messed up and his mental pattern is no long relevant.

{From personal experience, and SW put aside, many years ago, before I really started working on my traumas, I forced myself to believe that I didn’t need affection, tenderness, care. I would never allow myself to cry, I refused to get attached to people (except some very close friends). Because I wanted to be in control of my feelings, I thought it made me look stronger, not showing any kind of vulnerability. I was 27 or 28 when I first experienced genuine tenderness and care while having sex and I realized that there was a softness inside me I had hindered for years and that I actually loved tenderness. Before that, I would run away at the first sign of affection, because it made me feel deeply uncomfortable (and vulnerable).  And when I finally accepted to experience it, it was completely destabilizing. It felt good, but I needed time to adapt.}

Astarion realizing that he wanted something real, soft, and gentle with the PC might have had the same kind of effect, but worse.  Because he was supposed to be manipulating the PC, to pull the strings, and he suddenly found himself being “manipulated” by his own feelings.

It must have been terrifying for him, realising that he could feel something like this. Because it means he doesn’t control himself (his feelings) as much as he wants to, as much as he thought he could. He "falls" for the PC, the expression itself being one of vulnerability.

For him, falling in love = falling into a trap. He was supposed to be the one crafting that trap, and he ends up being trapped by his (uncontrollable) feelings.

That's why he can sound so cynical about your affair. This banter is from Act 2 if you romance him:

He feels uncomfortable, not because you had sex, but because it actually means something, and he doesn't not how to deal with it. It's easier to joke about it than to admit that maybe he's not so much in control.

It's not the PC's fault

He’s hurt, he has PTSD, but he can now think by himself and make his own choices, for better or worse.

It’s normal for us, fans who know the rest of the story, to worry about him and to not want to have him do something he's not fully into. But we should give him some credits and let him experience sex his own way.

When you’re a survivor, sometimes you have great sex experience, sometimes your PTSD will ruin it, and you won’t be able to go through with it. Sometimes you have sex for bad reasons, sometimes you regret it and sometimes you’re proud of it. Sometimes you have healthy sex and sometimes you use it to hurt yourself. It’s normal. That’s what healing is about and how you learn to define your boundaries.

Astarion didn’t have any body agency for two centuries, it’s coherent that his first experience as a free man is driven by questionable reasons. You can’t expect him to immediately find a healthy way to deal with his sexuality.

For instance, if you don't sleep with him at the party, he spends the night with Lae'zel, and imho it's even worse.

She shamelessly uses him like a toy, and he knows about it. But it's still his decision to sleep with her, even if his motivations aren't "good". You can't take that away from him on the pretext of protecting him. He doesn't need that kind of infantilisation. Same thing when he decides to sleep with the PC.

The thing is that the PC can’t know. As benevolent and respectful and selfless as the PC is, it’s part of Astarion's storyline that they don’t notice anything. He does his best to keep the mask up because the last thing he wants is to look vulnerable to you.

And he knows it's not the PC's fault. He slept with them for questionable reasons and he feels bad about it; not because he thinks they hurt him, but because he knows he mostly hurt himself, and he feels bad for manipulating the PC.

He doesn't blame the PC for it, and I'm sure it's not because he's deluded by his sense of guilt. After all, he never blamed his targets for sleeping with him, even the "villains" among them. They're not the enemies.

Those who hurt him didn't hurt him because they accepted to sleep with him, but more probably because of their behaviours during sex.

Besides, if the PC uses the confession dialogue to trick him into sleeping with them again, Astarion accepts before realising how disgusted he feels about it, and there he blames the PC for it, because here they explicitly abused his trust, using his vulnerabilities against him. It's still difficult for him to say no, especially to someone he respects, but he can say no when he's not taken aback in his most vulnerable moments (again: he doesn't sleep with the PC at all if there's not enough approval). Sleeping with him that first night doesn't make the PC an abuser.

In act 1, the PC has no way to know how Astarion is feeling about sex, The PC is one that fool who wanted to love him...

Trust

I already mentioned how pleased he looks when the PC let him bite them, and I think it has to do with trust. They accept to spend the night with him although they know he's a vampire and they trust him not to drink too much. Look at his reaction if the PC warn him not to bite.

He's really disappointed, enough to put an end to this affair. The tone he uses here doesn't seem 100% genuine, though, masking indignation? frustration? sadness? I don't know, but the "it's about pleasure" sounds so fake to me.

He nonetheless decides to not sleep with the PC - he listens to himself and realises he doesn't want to spend the night with someone who can't trust him. The PC has taken back their trust and reduced him to his vampiric nature (as something bad). Whereas if they sleep with him, they show him that they accept him.

That’s what makes that night so special: not thanks to some sort of “collective ecstasy” but thanks to mutual trust. The PC trusts him not to hurt them. Astarion trust them not to abuse him. He’s not ready to be vulnerable, but he allows himself to enjoy that moment with the PC, despite his plan, despite his past. Because they've both come this far and the PC has proved him multiple times that he could rely on them. It’s a fragile trust at this point, but it’s still more than  what he’d ever had before.

An essential step

IMHO this scene is essential in the romance route. I know some players wished there could be an option to romance him without sleeping with him, and I perfectly understand why. Realizing that he might have not be totally into it is painful. It’s uncomfortable. I also understand that if the PC is demi-sexual/ace, it makes the romance road a bit awkward. And it’s a valid feeling.

You can romance him without sleeping with him as Karlach origin, and that's because it's Karlach. The tension arises from the fact she can’t and wants it so much (for good reasons), whereas Astarion can and wants it somehow (for questionable reasons). That road is specific to them both because they are a mirroring one another.

Karlach aside, the thing is that in terms of narrative growth and storyline, this first night is the starting point of his healing journey. For the first time in 200 years, he has sex in a safe environment. For the first time, he finds a partner who trusts him enough to sleep with him even though they know he’s a vampire who could bite them. For the first time in his existence he can have real fun while having sex, he can be silly and roll on the ground. And maybe during this moment, he’s no longer the “sexy vampire” but just a man frolicking in the forest with someone he's attracted to. And again, it's still his decision, no matter how "bad" his motivations are. We should give him some credit.

I think it’s a brave move from Larian to put the players in that situation, to make them face the harsh reality of trauma. The harsh reality of being with someone who has such complicated feelings towards sex because of their trauma. It’s real. Very real. And it feels good to be seen.

You don’t always know the past of your sexual partners. You don’t always know what’s in their mind when you’re sleeping together. And if you happen to learn the harsh truth, it stings.

The Act 2 confession wouldn't be such a powerful scene without the first night. Astarion wouldn't have appeared so brave. Telling the PC about his former motivations must have been incredibly difficult, telling them "I wanted it but wasn't really into it" is freaking brave, and it's a token of trust he gives to the PC. Without that first night, it would have fallen flat. The PC would have just felt some kind of pride for not falling for his flirting and...that's it. Good, have a medal. Instead, the narrative puts the PC in an uncomfortable position, asking them: "Can you accept that? Because that's what trauma looks like and it's ugly."

That first night is inherent to Astarion's storyline, and to its message. That man goes from someone whose only reason to exist is being a sensual, sexual being in a cruel environment - someone who cannot connect with others without sex - to a man who finds out that he’s more than that, that sex doesn’t have to be dangerous, that’s it’s so much more than a game of power. And when you compare his grandiloquent attitude during that first night to his behaviour in the graveyard scene, it’s even more telling.

Those two scenes need to exist side by side to make sense, to reveal the evolution.

Everything about him in the graveyard scene - his body language, the look in his eyes, his voice - is a reversed image of that first night. He’s at peace, he doesn’t have to use those stupid lines about “mutual ecstasy” and how he will “taste you”, he doesn’t look down on the PC or look away. He looks into their eyes and tells them with his own words that he’d love to have sex with them.

But you have to experience both situations for the graveyard one to be so powerful. To witness that beautiful evolution. And Astarion too; he has to experience a “not so real” night with the PC to know that he wants something real with them.

It makes it all the more meaningful and sweeter. And imo, the graveyard scene is so freaking hot! Much more than that first night! Because it's genuine. It’s simple. He knows what he wants, his motivations are clear. It’s a man telling his lover “I want you”. A man who's learning to decipher what he really wants and to express it. And it’s more than enough.

[Let’s be honest, it’s been quite challenging to write all this. I rarely talk about my past online (for obvious reasons) and this scene means so much to me. Analysing it feels a little bit like analysing myself. And if you ever went through therapy, you know how hard it is xD In any case, that’s still my pov, based on my personal experience. I don’t pretend I hold the keys to a universal truth about it. We all have our own experience and sensibilities, and all of them are valid, even if we don’t agree in our interpretations.]

Thank you again @rivereverie for giving me the opportunity to dig into all this. I hope my humble opinion will help.

“The pleasure” he says he wants during the first sex scene is part of his script. He is not being entirely sincere when he answers Tav/Durge’s question. In essence, he is telling them what he thinks they want to hear. As he later reveals in his true confession in Act 2 of the game, he was following his “nice simple plan” to secure his own survival. And he was doing so in the only safe way he knew: through his charm and his body, by seducing the person he considered the strongest and most reliable—someone capable of protecting him.

If he had managed to awaken feelings in the other person, he could have used them to avoid being abandoned. But, as we know, his plan fails the moment he is the one who unexpectedly begins to feel something. Something he had never planned for, and something entirely outside his “nice simple plan.”

Why does Astarion decide to deceive the player even after they have shown themselves to be open and compassionate toward him:

I’m not justifying his behavior, of course, but I am dissecting it in order to understand it better, even though I personally believe he could not have done much better given the condition he was in during Act 1 of the game.

So, Astarion can certainly be described as an asshole, a manipulator, and an opportunist—but for him, these are not merely personality traits, which in many cases is an attribution error among the so-called cognitive biases. That does not mean it is entirely false, of course, because Astarion does manipulate and take advantage when he can.

But for Astarion, breaking out of old patterns is extremely difficult, because those behaviors are not mere habits or character flaws: they are survival strategies forged through two centuries of abuse and coercion. It is not simply a matter of “changing his attitude” or “stopping being an asshole,” but of giving up the very tools that kept him alive for two hundred years.

Patterns such as seducing others to gain protection, manipulating before being manipulated, hiding vulnerability behind sarcasm, reading other people’s desires in order to adapt, distrusting kindness, or associating intimacy with a transactional exchange do not come out of nowhere. They are trauma adaptations.

There is also another important aspect: trauma does not live only in thoughts, but in the body as well. Even when Astarion rationally understands that Tav or Durge are not Cazador, his nervous system may still react as though the danger were still present. And he acts accordingly.

Moreover, his identity has been warped for centuries by devastating messages: that his only value was his body, that charm was his only talent, that without a master he was nothing, and so on.

What Astarion truly thinks and feels in relation to sex:

Now, as you said, sex is a troubled, layered, and sadly contaminated concept for him. And not only that, but the very concept of intimacy is as well.

It is all condensed into this line:

“Even though I know things between us are different, being with someone still feels… tainted. Still brings up those feelings of disgust and loathing.”

Astarion says, “Even though I know things between us are different…” and already here a fundamental distinction emerges. On one side, there is the rational mind, which recognizes that with Tav/Durge the situation is not the same as before—that there is no coercion, that there is affection and respect. On the other side, however, there is the emotional and bodily level, which still cannot keep pace with that awareness.

When he adds, “being with someone still feels… tainted,” he chooses a very significant word. He does not simply say that being with someone is difficult, frightening, or unpleasant. He says tainted: contaminated, stained, corrupted. It is as though intimacy itself, in his experience, has been poisoned by everything he endured. It is not the present that is wrong, but the past that has left such a mark that it stains even what could now be good.

Even that small hesitation before the word tainted—the ellipsis—is eloquent. It feels like the sign of someone struggling to name what he feels, searching for the right word for something painful and shameful. There is vulnerability in that silence.

Then comes the second part: “still brings up those feelings of disgust and loathing.” The word still is extremely important, because it conveys that all of this is still happening, even though he knows the situation is different, even though he wants to open himself up, even though he is trying. There is a sense of frustration and helplessness in it: he would like to experience the present in a new way, but the past keeps resurfacing.

Finally, the words disgust and loathing are not accidental. Disgust evokes an almost physical repulsion, an emotional nausea tied to sex and to the way he was forced to experience it. Loathing, on the other hand, is something even deeper: self-contempt, internalized hatred, the feeling of being dirty or degraded. He is not speaking only about sex itself, but also about how those experiences have distorted the way he sees himself.

Why sex and intimacy feel so deeply tied to self-loathing for him:

Astarion’s body is capable of having sex, of feeling arousal, and of leading and completing the dance of the senses with precision and great skill. And yet he is completely dissociated—from himself and from the other person—without them necessarily noticing the enormous and heavy baggage he carries with him. And when it is all over, nothing remains but disgust and contempt for himself.

But it is not a contradiction.

A much broader discussion could be opened here, psychologically speaking, but in short: during sexual violence, body and mind can move in two different directions. The body may respond physiologically—arousal, lubrication, erection, even orgasm—while the mind is in a state of fear, paralysis, or dissociation. This does not imply desire or consent: these are automatic responses of the nervous system, not a choice. Research clearly distinguishes between bodily response, subjective experience, and consent. They are different things.

This helps explain how a person can “function sexually” while not truly being there at all (to be clear, this refers to lack of agency, not to consensual sex work).

For Astarion, as someone subjected to prolonged sexual exploitation and coercion, this is very coherent, and it can be applied in a broader sense as well.

His body “knows what to do” while the mind withdraws, so what remains is disgust. What remains is the devastating, self-loathing thought: my body participated even if I feel disgust, so perhaps I am into it, perhaps I’m broken or twisted. Perhaps I really am nothing more than something to be used for pleasure. So all the terrible things they said about me for centuries are true—for example, that it is his only talent.

And this is where a huge part of the shame may be born. The guilt, the disgust, and the cognitive dissonance between what is actually a fact and what one believes to be a fact—or between who one truly is and who one believes oneself to be. Let us remember, in fact, that Astarion’s bodily response is pure survival, a pure adaptation to an impossible situation.

So his disgust is not directed solely at what was done to him—not only at the physical repulsion of being forced into intimacy with someone he does not know, does not desire, and may even find unpleasant—but also at what he believes that experience has made him or revealed about him.

Other factors that may contribute:

Everything that is connected to the sexual act, to what it represents within Cazador’s system, and that goes beyond Astarion’s personal experience as a victim of sexual trafficking. Namely, the deception he carried out for centuries against unsuspecting victims led to their deaths, which casts him as a kind of trap—a morally devastating role, where he becomes both victim and unwilling instrument of harm. And the fact that even the most important relationship of his life began under those same dynamics.

Here, pre-existing and repressed guilt, along with a more general sense of shame, certainly find fertile ground to further contaminate his perception of intimacy.

And it doesn’t end there—there are other aspects to consider. For example, the unexpressed anger over the loss of his agency, having been completely under Cazador’s control and unable to make him pay for it or even show him the slightest disrespect without being torn apart in body and spirit. From there, that sense of powerlessness turns into a kind of shameful weakness.

Then there are the flashbacks, because for him contact is no longer just contact; it can trigger bodily memories of invasion, control, or obligation.

Finally, there is identity confusion: after centuries of playing a role, it becomes difficult for him to tell what is real—what he wants, what he feels, what he enjoys—versus what he learned to do because he had to. That uncertainty alone can be deeply unsettling.

The relationship with Tav/Durge: the difference that fractures the cycle and Astarion defenses:

All of this remains my personal interpretation, but I believe that despite Astarion’s trauma surrounding sex and intimacy, and despite the dysfunctional—even self-destructive—dynamics he carries into his relationship with the player as a means of survival, small glimpses of genuineness begin to emerge between him and Tav/Durge, even without him fully realizing it. And this starts as early as the bite scene.

Here’s why: in the first sex scene, even while following the prepackaged script he had refined over centuries, something begins to change. I talked about that HERE as well.

Tav/Durge truly takes Astarion’s real pleasure into account by offering him their neck—through their blood. And, in my view, it is precisely through the blood that a first genuine bond is formed between the two of them.

Something that, if we think about it, is entirely new for Astarion. Tav/Durge is his first, as he says himself after the bite night. And he says it almost like a blushing virgin. In this sense, he truly is one, given that Cazador always fed him nothing but putrid rats and insects. He’s not lying; it’s simply the plain truth.

This small detail places Tav/Durge outside of anyone else Astarion had ever encountered in his entire existence as a vampire spawn.

In this sense, Tav/Durge is special. Unique. But the moment is even deeper than that. By offering their blood, Tav/Durge also unconditionally accepts Astarion’s vampiric nature—the very thing for which he feared being cast out and killed. And that, too, is something entirely new. Someone knows his nature and trusts him.

It is the first time he can begin to feel safe, accepted, truly seen—not through the lens of a monster, but simply as Astarion.

So, in my humble opinion, Astarion truly begins to open up and experience new sensations (not feelings yet, mind you) from their very first encounter in the woods. This is regardless of whether he finds the player objectively attractive.

Sex has little to do with it—that’s part of the script. Everything else isn’t. After all, there’s a reason that in Act 2, despite his unhealthy behaviors, Astarion makes his confession, saying he wants something real, while also opening up about his vulnerabilities and what a relationship with him would actually entail. And he does so because, from the moment of the bite scene, Tav/Durge treats him like a person—offering him what he needs (blood included—for me, that’s where it starts; when it comes to a vampire, it’s not just a detail) without conditions and without judgment—completely outside of every pattern he knew.

In fact, if you reject him the second time he offers to spend intimate time together, he says that he has had countless lovers he can barely remember. But he will remember Tav/Durge.

And in that moment, he no longer has any need to lie or play the part of the seducer, since he has just been turned down.

Anyway, Astarion develops genuine feelings for Tav/Durge even as he moves through these internal conflicts, which make any form of true intimacy complicated and hard-won. What follows is a gradual process of reconciliation—between body and mind, and eventually between himself and another person.

And again, this is not about sex. That comes later, only once intimacy with Tav/Durge begins to exist beyond the purely physical.

Ok, I’d say I’ve rambled quite a bit, as usual. I hope this helps clarify things a little, even if it doesn’t fully resolve the contradiction. With Astarion, there’s rarely a simple answer—and I think that’s part of what makes him so interesting to explore.