stop whitewashing mister lord please
Leave my gremlin alone! Yâall are gonna hate me perchance, lol, but while I appreciate spawn and AA lovers alike I really prefer we appreciate Astarionâs character for what it is. I donât need all the characters I love to be perfect shining examples of morality, and this guy ainât. He exhibits trauma responses and patterns that many people live their whole lives with, and no one is saying he canât change at all. Iâll go ahead and cover: no one is saying he doesnât love you, that he canât have some form of fulfilling relationship, etc.âbut he ends up a very different character than spawn and I donât like it when people babygirlify AA for player wish fulfillment.
There are pros and cons to this choice that should stay intact.
Iâve been seeing people talking about creating a more âimmersiveâ ascended Astarion romance mod. One where he wonât force you to become his spawn. One where he wonât say this line to you when he turns you.
Iâm sorry but what đ
I feel like if you want to change his romance lines you donât respect his characterization much ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ but I find people often donât, I suppose.
To be clear, Iâm not trying to dunk on anyone specifically. This is part of a larger trend I see with people insisting that he would never treat their character the way that he acts in the game, and I just donât like it. Obviously people can head canon whatever they want, but I really struggle with narratives that run counter to the gameâs characterization personally so I will be analyzing why these choices are core aspects of the character that I donât agree with changing because I have autism.
Let me get something out of the wayâI find Ascended Astarion to be interesting, from a story telling perspective. He breaks my heart a little, and he makes me mad, haha, but I can absolutely see that itâs still him. Heâs still a character I care deeply about. Those parts of him were always thereâin some ways, he even resembles act 1 Astarion more than the spawn ending version, in their shared values. I donât agree with people who say that ânothing of the Astarion we knew survives,â but he is different than spawn. Heâs theatrical; he suppresses all vulnerability in favor of demonstrative power seeking and wish fulfillment. He got everything he wanted, and he wants you to know that.
He insists heâs happy with what he made of himself. Sometimes he can even believe that. Heâs Not Traumatized, actually, heâs having a great time! In some ways, I believe him. The world yearns to kneel and offer their necks, after all, and he has the power now. But heâs still frightened and in need of reassurance from Tav/Durge, and heâll never relinquish control to the extent that would allow him to heal fully. It's so obvious, the moment he is threatened in any way.
HAVING SAID THAT. This man absolutely will demand that you tie yourself to him irrevocably. That is who he is. He lives in fear of being abandoned. Heâs holding on with his claws and his teeth. Like, congrats you found a loophole that you can go fight the brain directly after completing his quest and not giving his arc closure, I guess, go offâbut Iâm wholeheartedly opposed to the concept because I find it fundamentally counter to his whole thing and I am a whore for story.
Ascended Astarion needs Tav/Durge desperately, and craves control and certainty to the degree that he cannot abide a relationship where he does not have some degree of Power Over. He simply doesnât trust youâll stay unless he holds the leash. Maybe in time he can learn, but I find it doubtful.
Just look at how he treats Karlach, when he realizes he canât turn her into his spawn.
Without control, he often turns mean and scared. (Which is kind of why people saying ascension is the only way he can be free makes me wheezeâthis desperate clawing for control is the opposite of true freedom in my mind, sunlight or no.)
This version of Astarion and my durge Nerys would never work. They had in common that they lived desperately fighting against the chain around their neck, and now he seeks to replace it with his own.*
And that is fineâI can understand that there are different types of characters out there for whom this arrangement would be preferable to losing him, or even a relief. There are so many awful fates one can end up with in the forgotten realms. Surely being kept on a long leash by someone who grants you everlasting life is better than some...(like your soul becoming a brick in Kelemvorâs faithless wall? Good grief. Probably better to be tied to a guy that negs you every once in awhile if you live in luxury, I guess.)
Some characters crave someone to control them, someone to keep them safe (because if you do what he wants, he absolutely does do that, I think. Itâs only when you consistently contest his wishes that you see how nasty he can get). I donât really see how so many boss bitch resist durge and drow baddies end up kneeling for this manâseems kinda counter to the character arcâbut I digress đ (not all of them as I am about to demonstrate, but certainly seems counter to some of their characterization as presented.)
My point is THERE ARE CHARACTERS FOR WHOM THIS RELATIONSHIP MAKES NARRATIVE SENSE. Thatâs fine. My embrace durge Ciaran was one such character, in fact. He was used to obeying, and wasnât particularly threatened by the theatrics. He liked the power play.
unfortunately it didnât end up particularly well for them when that drive to obey the call of his blood turned out to be stronger than the one tethering him to his lover.
ANYWAY. If you grant Ascended Astarion that control over you and youâre âwonderfully obedient,â he grants you a fairly long leash and plenty of treats! No argument there. As long as he thinks that you will continue to be his beloved pet and never leave him, heâs fairly content with his lot.
If your character is âwonderfully obedient,â Iâm not discounting they could be happy! Maybe you failed an insight check. Maybe itâs exactly what you want. There are a lot of reasons a person might like to be controlled. It can feel like caretaking for some. It can help relax a restless mind that is certain they will make all the wrong choices.
If youâre not obedientâŚgood luck. He wonât let you break up with him. Again, perhaps youâre leaning into the dom/sub of it all and youâre okay with that, or maybe you like the angst! Sometimes I do. I have a weakness for AA/spawn Gale, which subsists on the preexisting characteristics of someone who in some ways likes to be used, to worship his partner. Iâm not judging you for the relationship dynamics, I just prefer they be rooted in the character and that we donât pretend this dynamic doesnât exist!
ANYWAY. As for âown your body, kill your mind,â well. If you succeed the insight check, you find out that he believes you to be degrading yourself if you accept his offer. This makes sense; becoming a spawn degraded him. Itâs unsurprising he thinks this way, especially at this point, even if it makes you uncomfortable to hear it. He might be able to see this differently in the future, but he only just got free.
Even if he doesnât do to you what Cazador did to him (and tbh I donât think he would ever go that far personally, although the game does seem invested in calling him Cazador 2.0), you are becoming less than an equal to him, and that is absolutely an intentional part of the choice in the text, no question. Many people in real world and fictional relationships make choices like this all the timeâprioritizing someone else over themselves, or making sacrifices for love. Stop trying to mod out good storytelling!
Deep down, Ascended Astarion doesnât have a high opinion of his own self worth, either, and without the healing arc that will be challenging to shift. As it probably should be, for someone who condemned 7,000 souls of spawn just like him to the Hells. By staying with him, bowing for him, you become less than him, and thatâs critical to his sense of self. He needs to be more than to feel loved and safe. It doesnât mean he doesnât love you, in his way. But itâs the only way he knows how to love, in this version, and letâs not pretend this is an easy breezy uncomplicated kind of love. Or that this man will ever be able to experience the full range of intimacy with a partner. Iâd argue that sex largely stays what it was to him in this routeâa means to an end. A tool to exercise power over, if an entertaining one.
A means to mutual pleasure, surely, but not the kind of soul baring exercise it can be when the concept of power is stripped away entirely. Compare the spawn romance sceneâthis is kind of a CORE DIFFERENCE!
(shout out to @adrielmancy for filling in the gaps in my screenshots hereâthe mvp as usual)
tl;dr I understand the urge to restore cut content, make hugs longer, give players a second romance scene with MintharaâŚ.all well and good. But I fundamentally disagree with cutting dialogue you donât like in ways that drastically change the gameâs characterization, and Iâd argue that these are pretty significant.
...and ultimately, if you want a sweet kitten?
âŚHe's right there waiting for you. A little less grand, perhaps, but all the stronger for forsaking the path of least resistance and accepting himself as he is. It feels like some people are doing a lot of mental gymnastics to justify avoidance of his âweaknessâ in the spawn ending. (I could write a whole other post on that concept đ
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*a side note about my OC, Nerys, and Ascended Astarion
In Nerysâ one and only AU, Nerys refuses to help Astarion ascend. Gale steps in and helps his companion insteadâthey share that ambition for power, after allâand they separate. Canât bear to kill him, but canât bear to see him much, either. Her self destructive tendencies and longing result in them sleeping together a few more times, but it only causes her more heartache.
Itâs a ghost wearing her loverâs face, and itâs almost enough to drive her from the Gate all together if it werenât for Karlach. Eventually she spends longer and longer periods of time away, and itâs possible Astarionâs schemes get him staked by adventurers with more black and white morals while sheâs gone. His erratic approach to planning and strategy and his power hunger tell me he probably wonât live forever đ at least not without some really powerful allies backing him, but maybe heâll surprise me.