#st discourse

Walk with me. I am utterly convinced that Milevens, in their heart of hearts, know that their ship is not going to sail and that's the only reason us Bylers get so much hate, especially on Reddit.

Keep walking with me.

Is there a reason why someone would spend so much energy tearing down another fan-made ship? Sure, some Milevens might be homophobic, but that doesn't apply to all of them and I would be remiss if I assumed that.

No, the reason is that they feel THREATENED.

We're gonna walk a little further, and talk about Elmax.

This is a ship that blossomed in Season 3, because there were so many moments between the two which could be interpreted anywhere between platonic and romantic.

However, to date, I've never seen a Mileven trash Elmax. And why not? Doesn't Elmax also threaten Mileven as a ship because it takes Eleven away from Mike?

And, the answer to that is.... Milevens know that Elmax is just a ship.

They can acknowledge it's simply a fun, little theory and create space for discussions about it, without forcibly bringing up Mileven.

Personally, I believe the writers could have viewed him as a symbol of a partner who refuses to leave, but they NEVER intended to make it textual. As soon as El is back, Mike stays behind with the party and goes to burn the tunnels to help her, without fully considering how it might affect Will. Then, season 3 introduces the puberty monster thing, and his storyline mainly shifts to focus on El.

Bullying queer people for being obsessed nerds is something the characters of this show would never, ever do. And they would hate you for doing it.

And why are ST "fans" so homophobic? Don't they realize that this show is making a statement against homophobia?? I wonder if these people will turn their backs on the show after season 5, I hope they do. Please let us queer people exist in this fandom without being mocked and ridiculed and called delusional. This is our show just as much as -if not more than- it is yours. And the bullies and homophobes? You're definitely not welcome here. So why are these people ruling the reddit fandom and other places?? I will truly never understand this.

If people had accepted Will as the only canon queer character in the pair and respected his specific, queer story arc instead of trying to strip it down and hand it over to Mike. A ship not being canon doesn’t make it any less valid, rich, or fun—that’s literally what fanworks are for.

If people had just treated Byler as a normal shipping experience instead of turning it into a hyper-fixated, theory-filled crusade to prove it as a concrete "canon endgame." Imagine if all that energy had been redirected into reimagining Mike's queerness as a collective headcanon, built through fic and art, instead of trying to force its objective "canon" validity through 50-page manifestos.

I mourn that space. Maybe it would’ve been kinder to Will’s character. Maybe the shipwars wouldn't be half as toxic, and maybe Mileven shippers would've kept to themselves/would've been less antagonizing to the ship too. Or maybe they would’ve just faded out quietly by January, the way most het-ships naturally die down in fan spaces once the show ends.

And maybe—most importantly—Will's character wouldn't constantly be collateral damage caught in the middle of 24/7 hits from people hating on the byler shippers, especially while he was already being hit by homophobia from other sides of the discourse.

To be clear im by no means a Jonathan hater or really a stancy shipper. I think jancy and stancy are having a mid off HOWEVER.

Jonathan was wanting to break up with Nancy throughout the entirety of s4, but instead of actually doing it he was taking the route of inaction and waiting for Nancy to get bored and tired of him and end things for him. To me this parallels Ted’s overall passiveness in the marriage, where he never does anything and he just lets things happen.

Then, when Jonathan came back to Hawkins and couldn’t continuously distance himself from Nancy anymore, he decided to PROPOSE TO HER, knowing that the relationship was 1. Not something that he really wanted anymore and 2. Knowing it was dying out and fizzling

But instead of talking to her about it, he had Murray get him a ring so he could propose which would be effectively trapping Nancy in the loveless marriage she was so afraid of (assuming she said yes)